Antique gold or mold? lol


PDA






Buildit
February 28, 2009, 02:06 AM
Well, this is my introduction to the site, as I was refered here by a fellow motorcycle rider when I requested information about some antique firearms I inherited over the years. I did e-mail Paul Carella at arms.us@bonhams.com about them but figured it doesn't hurt to get the impressions of multiple people concerning these items. Afterall value is only really determined by what someone is willing to give you for said item.:rolleyes:
I'll have to explore this site a bit more as time allows and see what else this place has. So far I like it.:)

Letter to arms.us@bonhams.com below:


Paul Carella,
I was refered to you on the site WWW.Thehighroad.org as someone who could assist me in my research on several firearms. I am trying to gain enough knowladge about these so I don't get ripped off when I try to sell them. Some have been easier to obtain information about than others. So I'll start with the hardest.

1. Is a 11 shot pinfire handgun. It has very nice scrolling on the gun, apparently ivory handle and six sided barrel. The only mark on it is a "T" with a star above it. I could not get a good picture of the mark but have a link to photos.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/handgunleft2jpg.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/pinfireback.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/handgunfrontjpg.jpg
I have been given dates varying from 1790's to 1870's for it and values ranging from $100 to $1200. Othe photos or information available upon request.

2. Is a five shot colt 36 cal believed to be a police model, date unknown. It does state on the revolver pat Sept10th, 1850 and has a four digit SN. I am still trying to contact colt mfg archives to see what information they have on it. I would love to think it is the revolver that my Great, Great, "Great?" Uncle Thomas Heart Benton Sr. used in his dieing shoot out with Robert Calhoon. But family memories are too faded for that information. Again here are links to some photos.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/ColtPoliceright.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/ColtPoliceleft.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/ColtPolicepieces.jpg

3. is a NJ Trenton Musket with baonet. Self explanitory, just looking for what the reasonable price is.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/NJTrenton1863right.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/NJTrenton1863.jpg

4. Is a Amberg JC MOD 71/84 dated 1887. I have learned it was a mass production rifle leaving it little real value. Still I'd like a second opinion.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/JCmodright2.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/JCamberg.jpg

I appreciate your time and opinions on these firearms and am available to answer any further questions you might have concerning their condition or other particulars.

Thank you,

If you enjoyed reading about "Antique gold or mold? lol" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Dr.Who
February 28, 2009, 02:39 AM
First of all..... Welcome aboard!

Second... You have some very interesting pieces of which I will not be able to assist. I also started into guns with 3 inherited pistols that were in the family for 75 plus years. I will watch with baited breath as the fellow members advise you of your treasures!

Buildit
February 28, 2009, 12:06 PM
Thanks,
Always nice to find a Dr. who can give an honest opinion. LOL

Buildit
March 4, 2009, 03:57 PM
I found the following in refrence to the 71/84. Mine is a bit older but I've never seen a price this high for one.:what:

Also I noticed a misprint in my first posting. The pinfire is a 10 shot not 11.:rolleyes: I also discovered another marking under the grips. It is hard to make out but looks like a three lobed crown over a capitol H or a capitol F and L???
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r288/luke1324/jokes/fireams/FLmarkonpinfire.jpg

Thanks to those responding.:D

logjam
March 5, 2009, 07:24 PM
Nice guns!

The French needle fire revolver is interesting but not very valuable.

The Colt Model 1862 is very valuable. Also you's appears to be in very good shape. It's worth thousands, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

The model 1861 musket is nice too. The Trenton marking makes it more valuable than a standard model. It's worth about $2k

As for the Amberg 71/84 they aren't very valuable. Mine is mint and I paid $24 for it, but 30 years ago. They are nice shooters. You can get 11mm mauser ammo, shells, bullets and dies and load for it. It was made for BP but the Canadians loaded smokless for it for years. It might be worth $300 to $500, but it's a guess.

But that little Colt is a gem and so is the model 1861 musket. I own one and shoot it!

They didn't make many of those 1862 Colts. They were quite popular duing the Civil War as they were so easy to carry. It will be in .36 cal.

Jim K
March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM
Let's take the pinfire first. The pinfire cartridge was patented in 1835 by Casimir Lefaucheaux, a Frenchman (with that name, what else?). It didn't come into wide use until about 1850 and went out of use about 1880. In that period it was very common, with literally tons of revolvers made for it in Belgium, France, and Germany. Most were inexpensive, but very high quality "Lefaucheaux" revolvers, rifles and shotguns were made. The "T" with a star is probably a Belgian inspection mark, and would indicate Belgian manufacture; look carefully for an oval with "E L G" in it, which should be there also. I think your gun dates to the early part of the period, probably 1860-1865.

Value? Ordinary inexpensive pinfire revolvers in good shape go for around $200-300 as novelties. But yours holds 10 rounds and is so unusual that I think it would probably go for around $1000 at a large gun show, maybe more at auction. (Retail, and guess only - no guarantee!)

Jim

Jim K
March 5, 2009, 10:36 PM
The 1862 Police is quite nice. There is even a trace of silver left on the backstrap. I would estimate its value at around $2500-3000, maybe more. It is not a common gun, only about 28,000 were made and many were converted to cartridge later on.

The Trenton rifle musket lockplate has been "cleaned" and in general the gun has seen use. I agree with the $2000 or so value.

The 71/84 is worth a bit more than the $24 Logjam mentioned, but it is not a high dollar gun. I would say a reasonable value today would be about ten times that, say $200-300.

Jim

Buildit
March 6, 2009, 12:18 AM
Jim and Logjam,
Thanks for the comments.:) You are confirming some of my suspicions and providing some material for further research. I'll tell you the price ranges I've heard for the Colt, Pinfire and 71/84 are all over the range. The Colt has been estimated by shop owners both interested and uninterested fron $2500 to $100.:rolleyes: The pinfire has been looked at the most with everyone saying that I'll need to know who made it to get the full value of the gun.:(
The Trenton model 1861 has a well established price range online of $2000 to $2500 but the Bayonet and Scabord seem to make it far more desirable.:cool:
Finally the Amburg 71/84 appears to be ranged from $700 down to $200. That's why I was so shocked to see one advertised for $2000!!!:eek:
I'm still trying to contact Beverly Hanes at Colt Firearms concerning wheather they have records going back to guns with 4 digit serial numbers. I was told that they had a fire a long time ago which destroyed older records.:scrutiny: I hope it's not true.:uhoh:

barman
March 6, 2009, 08:01 AM
The pinfire is a Chaineux-type system.
Chaineux was a Belgian manufacturer which came with the idea of a 10 to 20 shots revolver, using pinfire cartridges which were invented by Lefaucheux (a Frenchman).

It's interesting that numerous copies of the Chaineux system were made (hundreds of thousands), and lots were made by... the Lefaucheux Company! :D

Good old Eugene Lefaucheux probably thought: if he can get away with stealing my father's invention (Casimir), I can get away with stealing his!

The T mark with a star on top is a inspector's mark which was used from 1877 to 1968.

My source of information is the wonderful website called littlegun :
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/a%20a%20artisans%20identifies%20fr.htm

Buildit
March 6, 2009, 04:55 PM
That Little gun site is great, even if it is mostly in french. :-) I was able to find out the T with the star above it is a countermark of the controler post 1877, definitaly Belgian.

pictoblu
March 6, 2009, 11:42 PM
Those are very cool. Thx for the pix. There's a resident expert/curator (last time I stopped there) on antique weapons at the museum at the Chickamauga Battlefield, Ft. Oglethorpe, GA. Can't remember his name at this time but phone number is (706) 866-9241.

Buildit
March 6, 2009, 11:54 PM
Maybe you could refer him to this thread? My email requests seem to get little responce minus one or two who have been very helpfull. The guy at thelittlegun.com has already requested some better photos and seem very willing to assist me.

Dr.Who
March 12, 2009, 01:40 AM
Very interesting responses!

Maverick223
March 12, 2009, 09:35 PM
Neat lookin' little pinfire ya got there :D. I am a sucker for ivory. I have a standing offer of $25.00USD for the 71/84... :neener:

If you enjoyed reading about "Antique gold or mold? lol" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!