Ruger AR-15


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Gunther
February 28, 2009, 04:24 PM
Has anyone heard anymore info on Rugers planned AR-15. Debut date, configuration etc.?

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Pizzagunner
February 28, 2009, 04:28 PM
Will it come with a five round magazine?:evil:

I love Ruger, but adhering to the dead man's nutty capacity prejudice is nuts.

possum
February 28, 2009, 04:46 PM
they are comming out with a piston operated ar, like i have posted on many occasions. but no one seemed to care. i found out about it December of last year. the say it comes out i can't say. i told them i wouldn't!:)

possum
February 28, 2009, 04:47 PM
Will it come with a five round magazine?

I love Ruger, but adhering to the dead man's nutty capacity prejudice is nuts.
obviously they are not anymore, have you seen what they have been comming out with as of late? and with the ar comming out, it seems to me that they are letting him rest and caring less and less about what he might have thought.

dakotasin
February 28, 2009, 04:59 PM
if ruger comes out w/ an ar, i'll be shocked. if they come out for an ar, look for 12-24 months after the first magazine advertisements (aka gun reviews)...

it would be neat, but i'm not holding my breath...

possum
February 28, 2009, 05:02 PM
if ruger comes out w/ an ar, i'll be shocked. if they come out for an ar, look for 12-24 months after the first magazine advertisements (aka gun reviews)...

it would be neat, but i'm not holding my breath...

don't hold your breath, but i can asure you it is comming.

Onmilo
February 28, 2009, 05:10 PM
Will Ruger call it the 'XR16' and the ones that actually make it to market won't be able to group on a dinner plate at fifty feet???

RevolvingCylinder
February 28, 2009, 05:15 PM
I can't find any real information on them manufacturing an AR-15. I think it would be very foolish for them to do so. They couldn't offer anything in an AR-15 that isn't offered by countless other manufacturers. It would be very un-Ruger for them not to innovate and many people would expect them to undercut their competitor's prices.

What they really need to do is to develop a new rifle based upon the Mini-14/Mini-30 designs. Their 5.56 and 7.62x39 models need STANAG and ComBloc(respectively) magazine compatibility. A .308 rifle would also be a very good idea. I'm sure they can do a real design change that can offer features in a rifle that are much more attractive to most respective buyers(especially accuracy without being cost prohibitive). Putting a new stock or barrel on it isn't going to cut it. These rifles need to be different enough that they aren't seen to many as just another Mini.

One market segment that Ruger could really benefit from is the 1911 market. I know that Ruger could design a pistol based on the basic 1911 that is as accurate and reliable as the P90 at an attractive price. It wouldn't be fancy but it would perform at a price most could afford.

possum
February 28, 2009, 05:31 PM
i agree i think they aren't gonna get anything positive out of comming out with one, but there is one on the way.

rcmodel
February 28, 2009, 05:34 PM
It would be very un-Ruger for them not to innovate You mean like when they copied the Kel-Tec P3AT, right down to the parts list drawing?

Yea! That was pretty innovative all right!

rc

taliv
February 28, 2009, 05:44 PM
well i don't know what to think about it. i'm not forgiving ruger any time soon, at least until they do something to make up for past sins, but still... the more the merrier

i don't think they'll make much headway into the black-rifle segment of the market dominated by the likes of colt/lmt/bushy, but there's probably room in the remington factory-camo'd hunting AR market.


it would be at least amusing though if they came out in a totally over-the-top tactical way. kind of like when the nannies started going after fast food for being unhealthy and all the fast food chains started offering raisins and apples.... except hardees, which came out with the total in-your-face beyond-unhealthy ridiculous thickburger

you gotta respect that. the american spirit may have double-diabetes and need some exercise, but it's not quite dead yet

NELSONs02
February 28, 2009, 06:13 PM
Will be interesting to see if THEY actually produce/design it and not do like Remington did with DPMS....

lipadj46
February 28, 2009, 07:31 PM
Will be interesting to see if THEY actually produce/design it and not do like Remington did with DPMS....

Like Remington did with Bushmaster you mean?

22lr
February 28, 2009, 08:34 PM
Why would they, they are staying busy making Mini-14 and 30s. But even if they did I think the AR craze days are coming to an end with more people losing jobs and having to sell used ones. I dont think they would make that much money on them compared to just making more Minis. But thats just me, Ruger will always have my business when I buy a rifle.

Travis Bickle
February 28, 2009, 08:39 PM
Seems like Ruger would be a lot better at making AKs than ARs.

Almond27
February 28, 2009, 08:43 PM
Ruger make AK's. oh please no.

Travis Bickle
February 28, 2009, 08:55 PM
Ruger make AK's. oh please no.

Why?

45ACPUSER
February 28, 2009, 08:59 PM
Ruger and 308?
Remember the "XGI" talk about Vaporware at it's best!

Crunker1337
February 28, 2009, 09:03 PM
What I don't understand is why they'd be designing an AR instead of revamping their Minis to accept STANAG/AK magazines. That, in my opinion, would be more profitable, because suppose they do make an AR-15--what, aside from brand name, will make it different than any other of the dozens of ARs out there?

Geneseo1911
February 28, 2009, 09:05 PM
It will likely be called the mini-15 and be chambered in .17 mach 2, and will have a big brother called the mini-31 chambered in .220 Russian

Inaccuracy and proprietary magazines are a given.

22lr
February 28, 2009, 09:06 PM
Thats a darn good idea, a mini that takes AR mags. Id buy right now.

Almond27
February 28, 2009, 09:11 PM
Oh if they converted both Mini's over to AR and AK mags they would do themselves a favor.

SimpleIsGood229
February 28, 2009, 09:11 PM
Will be interesting to see if THEY actually produce/design it and not do like Remington did with DPMS....Like Remington did with Bushmaster you mean?
Like Remington did with with Bushmaster and DPMS, you mean? ;)

Remington's AR-10 is a rebranded Panther, while their AR-15 is a rebranded Bushmaster.

Javelin
February 28, 2009, 09:14 PM
If Ruger makes one it will probably be the only AR to be completely recalled within 3 months of release.

;)

JonB
February 28, 2009, 09:15 PM
Will Ruger call it the 'XR16' and the ones that actually make it to market won't be able to group on a dinner plate at fifty feet???

HA! I was thinking the same thing.

No way I'd plunk down cash on any Ruger semi-auto. Their track record for semi-autos isn't exactly stellar with accuracy, over priced mags, etc.

jim in Anchorage
February 28, 2009, 09:28 PM
"It will likely be called the mini-15 and be chambered in .17 mach 2, and will have a big brother called the mini-31 chambered in .220 Russian" Don't forget the leather gloves needed to handle the rough piece of slag they call a "investment casting"

Eb1
March 1, 2009, 12:15 AM
They are making an AR so that they can help write a legislation to ban them? Great.. :what::banghead:

(Sarcasm) - Everyone knows that an honest man doesn't need more than 10 rounds. :barf:

Logan5
March 1, 2009, 12:25 AM
They couldn't offer anything in an AR-15 that isn't offered by countless other manufacturers.

What's Armalite's lead time up to on orders now? 18-24 months? I think they (Ruger) probably intend to offer rifles physically present in stores for people to take home with them, because it's a blind, foaming at the mouth panic out there, and people are buying anything that's got some black plastic and not nailed down.

I doubt they decided to reintroduce 20 round mags, flash hiders, and collapsible stocks for ideological reasons; they're looking to rake in cash money. They've probably had ample opportunity to look at their sales figures and note that no one is concerned enough that the Mini might be banned to make them a hot commodity.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
March 1, 2009, 08:40 AM
It seems they have 30 round mags for the Mini in the works.

There was one offered on Gunbroker recently in the new style packaging---not the old white box.

madcratebuilder
March 1, 2009, 09:44 AM
Ruger making an AR-15 is that some sick joke? Bill Ruger Sr. would be rolling in his grave.

Rolling, more like spinning up like a turbine engine.

JWarren
March 1, 2009, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Ruger making an AR-15 is that some sick joke? Bill Ruger Sr. would be rolling in his grave.

Rolling, more like spinning up like a turbine engine.


I truly hope so.


-- John

jerkface11
March 1, 2009, 12:27 PM
An AR15.com member who works in a foundry posted last year that Ruger had bought thousands of raw forgings. So yes it's coming. It'll probably suck though.

W.E.G.
March 1, 2009, 05:13 PM
Ruger is probably just doing contract machine-work for somebody who wants the forgings finished.

If you think Ruger will ever market an AR-type rifle with the Ruger name on it, you can put down the bong right now.

gunstuff
March 13, 2009, 08:24 PM
For those who do not know.....Ruger is under new management. Bill Ruger did not like military type weapons. His son Bill jr's only good aquisition was a titanium foundry. The new man in charge is a former USMC career Colonel or Major. Their drawing board have all kinds of cool stuff on it. Wait till you see the AR that will be introduced at the NRA 2009 show in about a week. They are in full scale production of a weapon that will have some unique features. Multiple "NEW" systems to follow. As for Ruger copying KelTec, Ruger make some of their pistol parts. So is Ruger actually copying or just putting their stamp on something they already manufacure for other companies in a joint venture. Reserve judgement....I think you will be suprised.

mordechaianiliewicz
March 13, 2009, 09:20 PM
That being said, the Ruger family was always the Ruger Company's biggest liability and biggest advantage.

As to a Ruger AR, look, here's the thing. There probably is a Ruger AR in the works. The only issue I see with that is market saturation.

Ruger (as of late) has had a major comeback. The SR9, the LCP, that new revolver that's part plastic (don't know how well it will work, but hey, there are new developments). A rifle (in the EBR category) for Ruger to show us something new should have had the following:

1.)Offered in .223, 7.62x39mm, 6.5 Grendel, and .308 Winchester.

2.) 20-30 round mags.

3.) integral rail which allows QD attachments.

4.) Under $1000 (preferably under $700) price tag.

5.) Durability.

Are they going to manufacture such a rifle? Nope. They are going to manufacture yet another $1200 or more AR. What makes it better than Bushmaster, Remington, etc.? Nothing. And this idea that they'll be any more available than some other company's offerings. Ha! I doubt it.

Art Eatman
March 13, 2009, 10:09 PM
mordechai, you saved this thread. It's nice to see a rational comment from time to time in the midst of some of the most chldish nattering I've run across in ten years of moderating.

Folks, the subject of the thread is about possible Ruger production plans. It's not a thread for, "Can you bottom this?" of irrational, childish and and just plain silly Low Road bumrapping of Ruger. This is THR, not Democratic Underground.

CapnMac
March 13, 2009, 10:18 PM
I'm still stuck on the mental image of an investment-cast AK receiver <g>

If S,R&S were really smart, there are othre EBR out there that could be built. le Clarion, the AR-180, galil, leap up to mind.

All three of those could be done with off-the-shelf mags, which would actually be easier for them, now. Ok, and being Ruger they could be in 6.8spc or .204ruger to confuse us.

Click Click Boom
March 13, 2009, 10:26 PM
DPMS makes the .308 Remington ARs.....

Ruger Will slap a bunch of other parts on a reciever they make. Everyone is doing it.

Coal Dragger
March 13, 2009, 11:21 PM
I for one hope Ruger get's it right.

Maybe they will surprise us all with a high quality upper and lower. Even better if the rifle has a cold hammer forged barrel that is chrome lined, that would be something from a durability standpoint. We can also hope that they get the metallurgy right on all the parts and we get good durable bolts, and carrier groups.

If any manufacturer has the industrial muscle to offer plenty of high quality parts Ruger does. Hopefully they can put together a tough AR with no second rate materials for less money than what we are used to seeing.

If they do, I'll but one.

Adammneal
March 14, 2009, 04:48 AM
Wow, Ruger making an AR? Ruger makes solid handguns but I am very curious to see how their AR15 stacks up.

Dookie
March 14, 2009, 04:55 AM
Ruger may not be the most accurate of gun companies, but they do one thing well, build a stout, reliable firearm. I have had dozens of semi auto rugers in CF and RF and I cannot remember a single one not fireing every time.

If they could build an AR15 with the same toughness of a mini 14, you would be able to use it as a cantilever to change a tire, shoot it all day, then use it as a framing hammer for work.

If the do build an AR15 maybe they could build a 1911 to go along with it, have a matched pair.

JWarren
March 14, 2009, 06:53 AM
If they could build an AR15 with the same toughness of a mini 14, you would be able to use it as a cantilever to change a tire, shoot it all day, then use it as a framing hammer for work.


I'm starting to see where the criticisms of Mini-14 accuracy comes from.

It isn't the Mini's-- its the Mini owners changing tires and hammering with it!

:)


-- John

atomd
March 14, 2009, 08:04 AM
They are jumping in too late in the game. If they were smart they would have had one on the shelves last summer/fall. I was never a big Ruger fan although I think their revolvers are generally pretty good. Everything else they have come out with hasn't impressed me, especially lately. Yet another company with a polymer striker fired pistol with a trigger safety..which was recalled. Then they released an almost exact copy of the Keltec p3at, which was recalled too. How bad is that? You copy an existing design almost entirely and yet it's still recalled. Yikes. The charger is something anyone with a 10/22 and a saw could have made themselves in their garage. Not really innovative stuff going on here.

Now they have the LCR which is a polymer-framed revolver. It's only 1.6 ounces lighter than a 442 and a portion of that is taken out of the cylinder, not just the frame. Even then, there's lighter J frames out there with more robust cylinders. I think they are headed in the right direction but they really need to get their act together and get it right the first time. Companies that are a fraction of their size with much less R&D money are coming out with more innovative and better designs all the time.

I will give them some credit though. They are paying attention to what people want and they are at least trying. They just need to try harder. I'm not a Ruger hater. I'd like to see them succeed. Heck, I have one of their products on my wish list. It's not one of their new designs though.

Lloyd Smale
March 14, 2009, 09:19 AM
personaly i think it would be great. Considering ruger could manufacture the whole gun in house rather then buying forgings like everyone else does im sure it will be cheaper. If they can produce a gas piston gun for the same price as everyone elses gas tube designs i think they would sell like hotcakes and being it should be a more reliable design im sure the big thing they will try to push is a military contact. Something there mini just cant compete in. Only thing i cant figure is why they didnt do it 10 years ago.

jerkface11
March 14, 2009, 10:07 AM
Ruger is buying forgings not doing them in house.

Coal Dragger
March 14, 2009, 06:37 PM
^ For now, in time if sales are strong I expect they would make the forgings themselves.

Elmer
May 14, 2009, 06:25 PM
The Ruger AR should officially release tomorrow, May 15th..........

Or so I heard......

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 14, 2009, 06:31 PM
Will Ruger call it the 'XR16'

Yes, stands for

Extended Recall
Extra Recall
Exasperating Recall

take your pic. :p

REAPER4206969
May 14, 2009, 06:31 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3539/3528289717_f597c358e1_b.jpg

SaMx
May 14, 2009, 06:34 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that Ruger's new product is just an AR-15, but at this point it seems pretty certain it will be. I guess we'll find out for sure tomorrow.

Walkalong
May 14, 2009, 06:43 PM
Interesting pic REAPER4206969.

I would love to see an M14 by Ruger. :D

They do make 30 round Mini 14 mags (http://shopruger.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&categoryId=19655&productId=63271&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=19655&lastCatId=19655), pricey, but good.

I have laid the man to rest. I am all for what today's Ruger is doing. I am sure another AR maker won't hurt a thing. It should help our case as far as support.

kcmarine
May 14, 2009, 07:11 PM
That's not a normal AR-15... look at that gas key. Might be for a piston. Unless they integrated the key into the bolt assembly itself. Which isn't a terrible idea, if done with proper metallurgy. It would eliminate the need for staking, and you couldn't get the key loose.

It'd be nice if Ruger did "redefine" the platform, as their website says they will. Making less points of failure on the bolt, maybe making the design less pin dependent, etc. Otherwise, they're going to be another "we make an AR, too!" maker.

This really makes me wonder what's going to happen to the Mini...

dagger dog
May 14, 2009, 07:13 PM
You hold the dinner plate, I'll do the shooting. Thats with any Ruger!

Enough is enough put your dinner plate where your mouth is:D

ArmedBear
May 14, 2009, 07:27 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that Ruger's new product is just an AR-15

Me, too.

It's not like I can't get an AR from at least, like, two or three other vendors...:)

I'd have preferred a totally revamped gun -- with traditional carbine ergos like the Mini-14 -- to supercede the Mini-14.

I have both, but I don't much like the AR platform, bristling with garbage in all directions. The Mini-14 is a MUCH nicer carbine to shoot, for those of us who like guns that stash under a seat, carry like a lever gun, and point at all well. Like others I don't much like the proprietary magazines or the way they insert on a peg.

If my Mini-14 took easy-to-find, reliable magazines and shot close to MOA, I would never have bought an AR.

cyclopsshooter
May 14, 2009, 07:28 PM
the ruger website says something big is coming on 5-15

mattlove444
May 14, 2009, 07:35 PM
A mini that takes AR and AK mags would rock my socks

gvnwst
May 14, 2009, 07:41 PM
That's not a normal AR-15... look at that gas key. Might be for a piston
I would agree with piston, they want to be different than remmy with the DPMS relabels.. That carrier really looks like a not-so-well done POF carrier...

strangelittleman
May 14, 2009, 08:02 PM
Is it just me or does the timing of this release of a new, domestically produced, piston AR(that can be produced in large quantity, by Ruger)seems to be just in time for the end of Colt's patent right's and exclusive contract for M4s w/ D.O.D.?
Ruger has the manufacturing muscle to pump out large numbers of any desired product and have already been subcontracted out to produce many different parts to quite a few competing firearms companies, such as, Kel-Tec the new Fortis pistol, S&W's PPK, etc.
If this new Ruger is an AR variant, it might bear watching in the near future in regards to Gov't trials & contracts...You never know.....

JDGray
May 14, 2009, 08:03 PM
If Ruger makes one it will probably be the only AR to be completely recalled within 3 months of release.




:DThats pretty funny, and accurate!

C-grunt
May 14, 2009, 08:14 PM
Well Im gong tomorrow. Ill let you guys know what I see.

My buddy will be there and at work, does some computer consulting stuff and will have his laptop, so I will try to get some early pics and info out.

niteowl
May 14, 2009, 09:54 PM
I was hoping to see an improved XGI come back. I'd love to own one in .243

And on the subject of Ruger subcontracting, I've heard they do the castings for Springfield's M1A. So another M14 knockoff would be a walk in the park for them.

ArmedBear
May 14, 2009, 10:06 PM
the ruger website says something big is coming on 5-15


Since that's my birthday, I figured they were just talking about me.

foghornl
May 15, 2009, 08:21 AM
Hmmm

Just checked the Ruger website...says "A Platform Redesigned" and has a running countdown clock, so info is supposed to be released @1:00PM, Eastern time.

Now, not everyone is a fan of the offerings from Sturm, Ruger & Co. That being said, all of the ones I have owned over 40+ years of shooting have gone BANG! every time, and put the lead where I pointed.

Lead didn't always go where needed, but ALWAYS went where I pointed...

jimmyraythomason
May 15, 2009, 08:37 AM
I'm glad I only skimmed the first 20 comments and didn't waste anymore time on YET ANOTHER "I hate Ruger thread". Sheesh ...if YOU don't like 'em that's okay but ENOUGH already!

stubbicatt
May 15, 2009, 09:06 AM
I dunno. For some of the failings of Ruger, the 10-22 is a wonderful little rifle, whose design has been copied by others.

I suspect that they will manufacture what they hope will sell. I like the Mini14, and have thought sometimes of getting one, perhaps that one with the BOSS type system on it. I just don't like to clean from the muzzle.

If they made an AR15, I would certainly consider it favorably.

gun-fucious
May 15, 2009, 11:34 AM
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u321/definc/ruger556.jpg

Maelstrom
May 15, 2009, 11:36 AM
Does that say $2000 for the MSRP?

gun-fucious
May 15, 2009, 11:37 AM
no its says one thousand nine hundred and ninety-five doll hairs

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 15, 2009, 11:39 AM
Woo hoo, what a great birthday present for Armed Bear: The "Sudden Recall 556 Rifle" - a rifle just like 46 others already on the market, for only a few hundred $$ more - Exciting!!! :scrutiny:

One thing is for sure - no honest man needs this!

:p

gun-fucious
May 15, 2009, 11:47 AM
interesting that they went with black, they could of set it up in flat dark earth or Remington grade mossy oak

the troy front end looks integrated into the gas regulator assembly / gas block

bratch
May 15, 2009, 11:51 AM
If this is accurate the biggest draw back to me is the 1/9 barrel.

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 11:52 AM
For that price...ill stick with my POF, at least it doesn't have a recall in the impending future. And the barrel is way better. As is the gas system. And the stock. And the rails. And pretty much everything else. Like the lower. For the same price.

gun-fucious--where did you get that pic?

bratch
May 15, 2009, 11:57 AM
You can usually get Rugers at about 80-85% of MSRP so street price should be closer to $1600-1700.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 15, 2009, 11:58 AM
I agree,

Ho-hum adjustable buttstock
Ho-hum grip (ERGO is better)
Ho-hum color
Bleh twist rate (1 in 8 is better)
Magpul and Troy parts? We can get those already, Ruger.
Crappy price (where's the Ruger workin-man's price point?)


This is a good one, too:

"With significantly improved performance over gas driven rifles" - huh? This one is not "gas-driven"? I got news for them - it's gas-driven sure as the world. It is "piston, gas-driven", as opposed to "direct impingement, gas driven" - they all operate by gas driving *something*.

Hard to imagine a bigger yawner, considering what's already out there.

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 12:03 PM
I agree,

Ho-hum adjustable buttstock
Ho-hum grip (ERGO is better)
Ho-hum color
Bleh twist rate (1 in 8 is better)
Magpul and Troy parts? We can get those already, Ruger.
Crappy price (where's the Ruger workin-man's price point?)


Well, for precision shooting, the ergo grip does lack a bit, but other than that, it is great. As for price, didn't you know that it was a 2-STAGE GAS PISTON SYSTEM?!?!?! It is worth MILLIONS! :D

No really, what is a 2 stage gas system???

Maelstrom
May 15, 2009, 12:09 PM
Please note. No bayonet lug. Wouldn't want to go all-out with the evil features just yet.

It does, however, have a shoulder thing that goes BACK. That's even more evil than the shoulder thing that goes UP.

2RCO
May 15, 2009, 12:12 PM
At least it doesn't use proprietary mags.

Other than that I'm not impressed. I'll have a bit of a problem paying 2K for a Ruger AR. When I can get a high quality model from a manufacturer with more time making ARs for 1k to 1,500.

Also I'd rather buy an FS2000, SCAR, or Sig 556 than a Ruger.

SquirrelNuts
May 15, 2009, 12:14 PM
I own a Mini-14, and like most Ruger complaints, it is not that accurate, and the factory mags are very expensive. I use black warrior mags ($12 pre-Obama) and I am not looking to win competitions, just have a fun plinker, so it fits my needs. It appears they are fixing their mag problem with this rifle, let's just hope they have fixed the accuracy issue too.

Duelist
May 15, 2009, 12:16 PM
They must have worked out a deal with Adams Arms. That is their gas piston system, I think. All in all, it's the Suddenly Recalled 556, a showpiece of aftermarket AR manufacturers.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 15, 2009, 12:24 PM
I'll have a bit of a problem paying 2K for a Ruger AR. When I can get a high quality model from a manufacturer with more time making ARs for 1k to 1,500.

Also I'd rather buy an FS2000, SCAR, or Sig 556 than a Ruger.

You got that straight - not to mention AUG and XCR.

Franken-Piston-AR which may or may not work, with the Ruger name stamped on to jack up the price.

heviarti
May 15, 2009, 12:32 PM
I already have an AR, and that was given to me. I'd have never bought an AR. I have a mini, and I like it. functions well. I have a 10/22 and don't on both counts. We'll see how this new product does.

rocinante
May 15, 2009, 12:35 PM
I have 4 rugers. a pair of 357 new vaqueros, mark iii 22/45 and a 10/22. Love the revolvers and if I was told I would be dropped off somewhere never to return and I get to take one handgun it would be one of those. When I run out of bullets it would make a great hammer. The 22s I got real mixed feelings on. both like to jam too much. I did have an excellent customer service experience on the 22/45.

If it performs (i.e. REASONABLY accurate, dependable, ease of maintenance) and settles down to a more competitve price it will sell well. This is the only name brand gun company so far to offer a piston driven AR. I am aware of the alternatives but not everyone has a negative opinion of Ruger. Maybe they are the Fords and not Ferrari of guns but some guys like Fords.

Time will tell won't it?

Reid73
May 15, 2009, 12:39 PM
Another boring, ugly, overpriced, unnecessary commodity. But there are lots of impressionable teenagers out there (where they get the money from, I don't really know, but they do).

It will sell ... which, of course, is what Ruger's shareholders want.

Zundfolge
May 15, 2009, 12:50 PM
gun-fucious, what is your source for the ad you posted?

I find it odd that they've listed all these aftermarket parts (typically companies like Ruger rebrand aftermarket parts they use) Furthermore, it doesn't follow any of the branding conventions used in other Ruger ads which can be downloaded here http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/N-Advertisements.html

I gotta wonder if the ad is fake.


EDIT
Looks like I'm wrong.
Odd that they abandoned their branding ... must have either a new ad agency or they've changed their marketing program.

strangelittleman
May 15, 2009, 12:52 PM
I'll keep an open mind on this one...I think the real world price will be around $1,500-&1,750...I would like to see the bolt, BCG and piston treated w/a DLC ( Diamond Like Carbon) finish rather than chrome plating, sometimes chrome plating of the bolt can cause brittleness, DLC is much higher on the Rockwell hardness scale, is much more wear resistant, has some natural lubricity and is a cinch to clean.
Otherwise, I can't wait to see one tortured, and see how the gov't. & commercial markets react.

maskedman504
May 15, 2009, 12:54 PM
"Another platform redefined."

Whoopty-do. :p

Gunnerpalace
May 15, 2009, 12:54 PM
5 Minutes

Ruger SR-556

3pairs12
May 15, 2009, 12:56 PM
You think it will have the billboard of a warning on the barrel?

Duelist
May 15, 2009, 01:01 PM
Boo! *throws popcorn at computer*

maskedman504
May 15, 2009, 01:02 PM
The Si...Ruger SR556!

http://www.ruger.com/SR556/

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/468L.jpg

The Ruger SR-556 offers Ruger’s legendary rugged reliability while redefining the AR platform with piston driven performance. SR-556 rifles come feature-packed and pre-accessorized, and include the following:

** Chrome-plated, two-stage piston driven operating system provides improved reliability over gas driven rifles

** 4-position, chrome-plated gas regulator allows operator to tune rifle to specific ammunition or rifle conditions

** Chambered in the popular 5.56mm NATO/.223 Rem., the SR-556 comes with 3 MAGPUL PMAG 30-round magazines

** Chrome-plated bolt, bolt carrier and extractor aid in performance and durability

** Cold hammer-forged, chrome-lined Mil-Spec 41V45 barrel provides long-lasting accuracy

** Troy Industries Folding BattleSights are adjustable and co-witness with Mil-Spec optics so they can be easily removed to make room for high-power scopes

** Troy Industries Quad Rail Handguard provides rigid mount for piston driven transfer rod

** Troy Industries Rail Covers provide comfortable hold for unused Picatinny rails

** 6-Position Telescoping M4-Style Buttstock is collapsible and allows the length of pull to be adjusted from 10.25” to 13.50”

** Hogue® Monogrip® Pistol Grip with finger grooves provides comfort when carrying and shooting

** Soft-sided carry case

Caliber: 5.56mm NATO/.223 Rem.
Capacity: 30 Rounds
Finish: ManganesePhosphate/HardcoatAnodized
Stock: 6-Position Telescoping M4-Style
Barrel Length: 16 1/8"
Groove: 6
Twist: 1:9" RH
Overall Length: 32.75" - 36"
Weight: 7.92 lbs
California Approved: No
Massachusetts Approved: No
Front Sight(s): Folding BattleSights (Elev.)
Rear Sight(s): Folding BattleSights (Windage)
Other Features: AR Compatible Selector Lever
Suggested Retail Price: $ 1995.00
Miscellaneous: AR-style SR-556 ships with 10" Troy Industries Quad Rail, Three Troy Industries Rail Covers, 3 30-Rounds Magazines, and a soft Ruger case. Also includes Hogue® Monogrip® Pistol Grip.

tn-dave
May 15, 2009, 01:02 PM
Boo!

I agree...No thanks Ruger

TexasRifleman
May 15, 2009, 01:02 PM
$1995 MSRP.

Sorry, fail.

Next?

maskedman504
May 15, 2009, 01:04 PM
$1995 MSRP.

Sorry, fail.

Next?

Exactly.

Ruger =/= Sig Sauer

They picked the wrong price point.

peyton
May 15, 2009, 01:06 PM
There must be aot of people hitting the server, the web page is not up!!

3pairs12
May 15, 2009, 01:07 PM
it was super slow when I hit it.

Badger Arms
May 15, 2009, 01:07 PM
$1995 MSRP.

Sorry, fail.

Next?

+995 (the amount it's overpriced)

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 01:08 PM
You aren't missing much. The above pic (on the last page) shows everything that the website does...

RedLion
May 15, 2009, 01:08 PM
Soooo, Bill Ruger can't ban our toys out of existence so he's just going to take the next best thing with that $1995 sticker price???

I agree that for 2 grand I'll definitely look elsewhere when I can actually buy something like this.

TurboFC3S
May 15, 2009, 01:13 PM
Troy rails and sights are nice ... 3 PMAG's are nice. Specs say 7.92 pounds, I'd have though it would be closer to 9 pounds with the extended rail and piston. I think most would prefer a 1:7 or 1:8 twist instead of 1:9.

Still it's just another AR with hodge-podge of parts. I'd rather build my own and save quite a bit of $$$ ... or if you want a piston drive, get the Sig 556.

Fburgtx
May 15, 2009, 01:15 PM
That thing is easily $500 over-priced. (MSRP). They needed a $1500 MSRP so that the thing could reasonably sell in the $1200-$1400 range (thus, under-cutting the price of a SIG 556).

Does Ruger really think folks will pay as much (or more) for this than they would for a SIG????????????:eek:

Too much (price). Too late (2 years). Too bad.

ARNETT44
May 15, 2009, 01:22 PM
How much would it cost if you bought a LMT lower, LWRC upper, with York forend, and Sights? I add up about 2,100.00 Just a thought:what:

Fburgtx
May 15, 2009, 01:23 PM
That thing is easily $500 over-priced. (MSRP). They needed a $1500 MSRP so that the thing could reasonably sell in the $1200-$1400 range (thus, under-cutting the price of a SIG 556).

Does Ruger really think folks will pay as much (or more) for this than they would for a SIG????????????:eek:

Too much (price). Too late (2 years). Too bad.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
May 15, 2009, 01:23 PM
IF the street price were around $1k they would have something----for that kind of money --I'll just go get a Colt.

txman321
May 15, 2009, 01:26 PM
im not very impressed with it, I personally dont even like the way it looks

Quoheleth
May 15, 2009, 01:30 PM
That's not a normal AR-15... look at that gas key. Might be for a piston. Unless they integrated the key into the bolt assembly itself. Which isn't a terrible idea, if done with proper metallurgy. It would eliminate the need for staking, and you couldn't get the key loose.

It'd be nice if Ruger did "redefine" the platform, as their website says they will. Making less points of failure on the bolt, maybe making the design less pin dependent, etc. Otherwise, they're going to be another "we make an AR, too!" maker.

To me, it looks like any average AR lower and receiver but with the forward part of the upper from Sig, who already has the adjustable gas doo-dad.

Bill Ruger's politics got wonky, but he held onto his philosophy about a gun being something that a working man can afford on a couple weeks' pay. Either a) that philosophy is out the window or b) they aren't looking at the pay scale around these here parts!

Q

lipadj46
May 15, 2009, 01:31 PM
I read somewhere else that it has a 1:9 twist barrel, seems a bit out of touch with what the high end AR tweakers want these days.

Eb1
May 15, 2009, 01:34 PM
Umm... Ummm..... Hmmm.... Ummmm....







Umm... Well.... Umm....



Yeah.. That is about all I got to say. I didn't expect much from Ruger anyway.

Gunnerpalace
May 15, 2009, 01:44 PM
Picture time:http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=98092&stc=1&d=1242409422


Press release info here, http://chaostheoryfilms.blogspot.com/2009/05/ruger-sr-556.html


(Hmmm Gunblast did a review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4nTJvvLF3I) and got one in 5 minutes)

larry starling
May 15, 2009, 01:45 PM
OH boy another piston AR that cost's 2k+.....
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/SR556/
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/larry0810/468L.jpg:scrutiny:

a-sheepdog
May 15, 2009, 01:45 PM
I would like to see one in 6.8spc . Not interested in the Ruger version of 5.56.

apex
May 15, 2009, 01:52 PM
The last Ruger I bought (SP-101) was defective straight from the factory, and their CS gave me the hardest time about it. With all of their recalls of late, and the way they fought me over a defective $450 gun, they must be crazy to think I want to buy a $2000 gun that they redesigned. :barf:

Oh, and I'll run right out and buy the M77 Hawkeye Alaskan chambered in .416 Ruger, too. :eek:

gun-fucious
May 15, 2009, 01:54 PM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//explodedview.jpg

nnmnu
May 15, 2009, 01:56 PM
sweet

blkbrd666
May 15, 2009, 02:02 PM
Okay, it's been an hour...has it been recalled yet?

gun-fucious
May 15, 2009, 02:06 PM
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-SR556/DSC07737.JPG

piston assembly

maskedman504
May 15, 2009, 02:25 PM
On the brighside, it comes with 3 30 round magazines. :D

Maverick223
May 15, 2009, 02:38 PM
"With significantly improved performance over gas driven rifles" - huh? This one is not "gas-driven"? I got news for them - it's gas-driven sure as the world. It is "piston, gas-driven", as opposed to "direct impingement, gas driven" - they all operate by gas driving *something*.
Hmmm, must be recoil operated...
Does Ruger really think folks will pay as much (or more) for this than they would for a SIG?
Wonder if they know that the Sig is German...and the Germans have maintained a reputation for making sub-standard equipment. :confused: Oh, got a bit sidetracked, was thinking about Ruger. :D

But there will be a market for these...PMags are hard to get ya know...;)

kcmarine
May 15, 2009, 02:39 PM
I don't know why people keep kicking them in the balls about it... I mean... they've been kicked in the balls so much that they're probably in their throat by now...


It will be interesting to see how this doles out. I was hoping that they'd go along a less- traditional route... making the AR design with less small parts, tool- less buffer tube exchange, a changeable mag well, etc...

Maverick223
May 15, 2009, 02:39 PM
gun-fucious, that "exploded view" is great...rofl

Maverick223
May 15, 2009, 02:41 PM
yawn...

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 02:44 PM
How much would it cost if you bought a LMT lower, LWRC upper, with York forend, and Sights? I add up about 2,100.00 Just a thought
How about a POF? The top of the line .223 models are $2k. And everything about them is better than the ruger, and quite a few things better than what you mentioned.

2RCO
May 15, 2009, 02:51 PM
Davidson's Has them listed but No Price yet!

http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/default.aspx?item=5902-RUG

dagger dog
May 15, 2009, 03:03 PM
The way I look at it is the price can always come down.

How can you make the statement "And everything about them is better than the Ruger" when you haven't even held one in your hands let alone shot one.!

Personally a lot of you guys need to remove the fecal matter from your ears, eyes, and mouths. That comes from having your heads up your rectum for too long on this Ruger bashing thing.

Give the rifle a shot before you go bum rapping it.

Just my opinion.

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 03:10 PM
How can you make the statement "And everything about them is better than the Ruger" when you haven't even held one in your hands let alone shot one.!
The spec sheet. POF barrels, match grade, from Mike Rock. (very very good barrels) Trigger, timney match, ruger doesn't even say they are using a match grade trigger, meaning, most likley it is jsut a standard AR trigger. Rail system, there are few that compare to the predator system on my POF. POF uses Vltor E-Mod stocks, WAY better than the standard 6 pos on this thing. POF lowers are made from a billet, allowing them to have a ambi bolt release. Must i go on?

Give the rifle a shot before you go bum rapping it.
Oh, ill shoot it, i just won't buy it. I am sure it is a great rifle, but NOT for that price!

Coal Dragger
May 15, 2009, 03:13 PM
I'll wait to see what street prices will be, but for a piston gun with chrome plated/lined everything with a good quality hammer forged bbl, flip up sights, and a quad rail..... even an MSRP of $1995 is still a lot of carbine for the money. Try building one for less with the same specs before bitching about it.

Dimis
May 15, 2009, 03:22 PM
fecal matter or not
im not bashing the product ive always felt that Ruger makes good guns (even the recalled ones are great once fixed)
BUT...

do we really need yet ANOTHEr ar variant on an allready overfilled market?

i honestly think that what others have mentioned about an American Made AK would have been a much bigger statement and maybe a bigger success if they built it to there standard and not the old rooskies way

anyone with even a minute of gun knowledge can name 10 or more AR manufacturers

maybe if they get a .308 version out i may take a look

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 03:22 PM
Try building one for less with the same specs before bitching about it.
To tell the truth...(well, buying the upper complete, IMO piston conversions are not all that great) That is easy. You can build a lower for around $300-$350, right? Pair that with a POF upper at $1325. Oh, you still get the better stuff on the upper.:)

mordechaianiliewicz
May 15, 2009, 03:25 PM
Several people are missing the point. Ruger's strong point has always been their price point. Not many folks could manufacture as fine a weapon system for the same kind of money.

Ruger has built a rifle that can have the price point beat, and there are better weapons out there for the same price.... yawn is right.

Look at my posts.... I'm not just some Ruger hater. I like Ruger alot, but you have to be honest. Ruger messed up.

And, Dimis makes a great point. I'd bet they could have built a real high quality AK/Galil/Valmet inspired variant, more accurate, nicer, better sights, etc. for around $1000. And, it would have been a much better idea than what they did. But, Ruger doesn't listen to me, and they didn't listen to Dimis. They're gonna lose money here and they only have themselves to blame.

Maverick223
May 15, 2009, 03:29 PM
Davidson's Has them listed but No Price yet!
These are gonna be great, they're giving them away...:neener:

Item # 5902-RUG
MSRP: $0.00

Yay...free ARs, I just hope it doesn't blow up...YAY.

moooose102
May 15, 2009, 03:30 PM
well, for me, the price is to high anyway. but it also has a lot of chromed items in it. given rugers recent recall status:what:, and all of the extra chroming, i would want to see several "torture tested" :evil: first. something in the vicinity of 20,000 rounds or so. if the chrome holds up, and if the price comes down, then, maybe.

hak
May 15, 2009, 03:33 PM
"To tell the truth...(well, buying the upper complete, IMO piston conversions are not all that great) That is easy. You can build a lower for around $300-$350, right? Pair that with a POF upper at $1325. Oh, you still get the better stuff on the upper"


upper is $1375 if you can find one from POF, the lower won't be $350 built with even a cheapie 6 position stock. but let's say $400 in current climate ( saw them selling - cheap ones, for $450 with A2 stocks at this months gun show)

so taht's $1775. oh, and it's another $275 for troy's

so $2050 even on your shoestring. so for $50 less with one/none shipping to pay and a 'single throat to choke' if it doesn't cycle makes me think people kinda overreacted when bashing it's price point.

hey, what do i know, i'm on a waiting list for an LWRC so i'm a bit biased....

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 03:40 PM
the lower won't be $350 built with even a cheapie 6 position stock. but let's say $400 in current climate ( saw them selling - cheap ones, for $450 with A2 stocks at this months gun show)

really, we can't count the "rush" into this, or the ruger will sell for more too. So, go to stag arms website, they have lowers similar to Rugers for $290. Then you count the $260 (POF website) for the troys... $550+$1375=1925 . So, still under. And that is with a much nicer upper, the barrel on POFs alone is worth a quite a bit. Really, i am not against this rifle, if the actual retail price drops a few points (call it $500 drop or so, maybe even $300 will do) then i will say this is a great gun for the money. Still no for $2k though...

hak
May 15, 2009, 03:42 PM
counter point, i did chuckle when i picked up a mag yesterday and saw a paraOrd AR (based on the ZM spring on the gas rod/key) and a Barret, and a KAC SR-15, all in one issue... all i could think was: wow, that's a lot of AR variants

plus side: more in the marketplace and in people's hands, should give the 'black rifle' more supporters come referendum time
down side: how many will work as advertised? (and we have another wave of 'Nam era growing pains with failures of the derivations...)

stubbicatt
May 15, 2009, 03:44 PM
If I get an AR, it will be this one. It will also be in a couple of months when the price has come down some and the quality has been proven.

hak
May 15, 2009, 03:44 PM
"really, we can't count the "rush" into this" i'm sure they did when they were figuring msrp... fair for us to do the same.

just saying it's in the ball park if you cover the brand with black tape and assume it's going to last a 3-4 day carbine course. so that's the big question, is it any good, even at 1500...

paintballdude902
May 15, 2009, 03:47 PM
does it take special mags? :)

well since bills gone ruger will do what customers want now at a higher price

marineman
May 15, 2009, 03:48 PM
They are just trying to get their hand in the AR game. However, at nearly $2000, they are sure to fail. You can buy, make, or modify any current AR and end up with probably a better weapon than what the Ruger is offering and still be under the Ruger MSRP. A Colt 6920 or 6940 isn't nearly that expensive, even at today's outrageous prices.

If Ruger wanted to capitalize in the AR market, they would have introduced an AR at or below current prices or offered something vastly different. At least the Sig and MicroTech look different than their AR counterparts.

1KPerDay
May 15, 2009, 04:03 PM
2000 bucks????????


HA HAAAH AHAHAH AHAHAH HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!


Yer killin' me!!!! *wipes tears away*



Looks cool, though. I think I'd buy one for half price or so.

Eyesac
May 15, 2009, 04:05 PM
Boooooorrrinngggg.....

SaxonPig
May 15, 2009, 04:13 PM
I do find it interesting that a major manufacturer, whom you would think would have inside sources on such things, isn't afraid to introduce a brand new rifle, with all the the costs involved with such a venture, during a time when many fear a return of a legislative ban on such guns.

But then, maybe Congress' promise to exempt Ruger products is still in force after Bill Sr. stabbed us in the back in 1994 in a deal with the Devil.

It does look like Ruger's prohibition against magazines over 10 round capacity (or 20 more recently) is off the table.

For $2,000 I'll keep my SP1 that I've had since 1979.

http://www.fototime.com/2F34EB2E319A947/standard.jpg

Cohibra45
May 15, 2009, 04:14 PM
Guys,

Most are missing the point. For another 'MAJOR' manufacturer to bring out an AR platform, this only helps the RKBA. Remember the Heller caveat......"common use". The more AR rifles in the hands of the American public the better!!!

I realize that there are people here that remember the 'dark days' of the Clinton era, but I have to go back to the start of the company back in the 50's. They have built some of the best pistols/revolvers and rifles for the best prices this country has seen for a 'large' manufacturer. People complain about the investment cast but, I have shot some stout loads out of my Redhawk and Bisley Blackhawk with absolutely no problems. So have hundreds of others out there. Yes, there have been recalls, but so have almost every manufacturer of firearms.

This is an American company, using other American company products, built by Americans.....it is all good!!! Could they have brought out another entry priced AR??? Yes, but they would have been competing with all the other entry companies.......what's the use in that?? Almost everyone I see buying a new AR wants the 'railed' foregrip, they want flip up sites, and the piston move is what almost all manufacturers are getting into. I'm hoping that they do well. I have been using Ruger products since the 60's and really haven't had any trouble with any of them.

Coronach
May 15, 2009, 04:14 PM
Ruger says,"Me too!"OK. So, they now make a piston-driven AR. I'm underwhelmed, but I'm willing to see what about it makes it worth $2k, but I won't be holding my breath. I agree that they'd sell a bunch of it was $500 cheaper. Who knows? After they've been on the market for a while, the price might drop $500. I think The Insanity will have to end first, as they will probably sell all they make until the supply line of regular AR stuff catches up to demand.

It's possible that they are just riding that wave for the moment, and had a more realistic price point in mind before this bull market kicked off in November.

Mike

armoredman
May 15, 2009, 04:34 PM
I have to echo - I saw nothing, (or missed it), that says this take standard AR mags, just that it comes with 3 30 round mags...proprietary Rugaer mags? Call it dead now if so.
Price is too high, indeed, in my humble opinion.

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 04:35 PM
I have to echo - I saw nothing, (or missed it), that says this take standard AR mags, just that it comes with 3 30 round mags...proprietary Rugaer mags? Call it dead now if so.
See this, it was posted in another thread:
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u321/definc/ruger556.jpg
they didn't make tiehr own, thankfully, they are Pmags.


I do find it interesting that a major manufacturer, whom you would think would have inside sources on such things, isn't afraid to introduce a brand new rifle, with all the the costs involved with such a venture, during a time when many fear a return of a legislative ban on such guns.
Really, i don't think Ruger is making much of it in house, most of the stuff is from other companies. I have heard that the recievers are bought from a large maker also.

maskedman504
May 15, 2009, 04:36 PM
I have to echo - I saw nothing, (or missed it), that says this take standard AR mags, just that it comes with 3 30 round mags...proprietary Rugaer mags? Call it dead now if so.
Price is too high, indeed, in my humble opinion.

** Chambered in the popular 5.56mm NATO/.223 Rem., the SR-556 comes with 3 MAGPUL PMAG 30-round magazines

Edit: Post ninja'd.

Cohibra45
May 15, 2009, 04:36 PM
I have to echo - I saw nothing, (or missed it), that says this take standard AR mags, just that it comes with 3 30 round mags...proprietary Rugaer mags? Call it dead now if so.
Price is too high, indeed, in my humble opinion.

You missed it...........they are Magpul 30 round P-Mags which fit every AR out there!!!

TexasRifleman
May 15, 2009, 04:51 PM
they didn't make tiehr own, thankfully, they are Pmags.

So I wonder what they actually ARE making on this.

Outsourcing the lower it seems. Just making the upper and attaching Troy handguard?

Be interesting to see how much of it is actually Ruger.

Aquila
May 15, 2009, 04:53 PM
Well, I, for one, wish them all the success. The carbine looks good.

Congrats, Ruger!!

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 05:02 PM
So I wonder what they actually ARE making on this.

Outsourcing the lower it seems. Just making the upper and attaching Troy handguard?

Be interesting to see how much of it is actually Ruger.

(not much it seems)

I think they are ever buying the uppers out of house. Then the piston system is reported to be similar to the adams arms conversion, so they might be buying the piston assemblies from adams arms. And so on...

highorder
May 15, 2009, 05:05 PM
Ruger etches a mean logo on other people's stuff.... Have to give them that! :neener:

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 05:09 PM
Ruger etches a mean logo on other people stuff.... Habe to give them that!

na, but they do pay other people to etch a nice logo on. :neener::p:D

rogertc1
May 15, 2009, 05:12 PM
Wait for the recall...

Ruger is truely a innovative manufacturer.

gidaeon
May 15, 2009, 05:19 PM
I for one applaud Ruger for giving people what they wanted so desperately for the last year - another EBR. It might be a bit more $ and later than people wanted certainly but its a good thing when American companies build guns for Americans :) Remember IF they did their job right it takes a while to bring something to market.

atomd
May 15, 2009, 05:24 PM
Hey! Ruger has another brand new, innovative, and groundbreaking design...oh wait...no it's not. Nevermind.

(This is the spot where I was going to put a comment about it having a 30 round magazine..which no honest man would ever need)

(This is the spot where someone else was going to comment about that view of the company dying with Bill Ruger)

CYANIDEGENOCIDE
May 15, 2009, 05:24 PM
Too little, too late. Even Remington beat Ruger to the punch on this one.
Can I get an estimate on how many months before Ruger realizes they screwed the pooch and drops this from the product line?

Howaido
May 15, 2009, 05:26 PM
At least it's piston driven.

I will probably go my entire life without even touching one. Somehow, the thought leaves me...content. :)

gun-fucious
May 15, 2009, 05:38 PM
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-SR556/DSC07754.JPG

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-SR556/DSC07737.JPG

I hope this is a case of "ya know what? we got no where trying to appease our enemies, so lets make our customers happy!"

Coal Dragger
May 15, 2009, 06:09 PM
I will probably give one of these a hard look in the near future, I would like to see the price come down a bit. We'll have to see what the street price is.

I know everyone seems to be more in favor of the POF piston AR or others, but until we see how the Ruger performs the comparison is strictly theoretical "bench racing". If the Ruger proves to be accurate, reliable, and durable it may be worth the premium just for the better warranty/customer support. The POF might be a nice unit, but I doubt when push comes to shove that they will have the capacity to back up their product as well as Ruger can.

If a street price of $1700-$1750 can be found then I would likely be interested.

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 06:09 PM
Seems well enough built, but then again, those pics are only really of the outsourced parts...

Maverick223
May 15, 2009, 06:17 PM
I hope this is a case of "ya know what? we got no where trying to appease our enemies, so lets make our customers happy!"Yeah, I hope that they have changed their view, and actually want to support the product they produce.

Dr.Rob
May 15, 2009, 07:47 PM
I say, hmmmm.

First off, good for Ruger. Even if it's just a ploy to stop the haters, its a direct respone to the GUN BUYING PUBLIC. And that's cool. Been shooting Rugers since I was 6 or so, they make good stuff IMHO.

Secondly, a LOT of people buy a STOCK AR for a grand or more, then immediately spend $4-500 on aftermarket parts like free floating the barrel/forearm and such. I don't know what those Troy parts would cost to PUT on a stock rifle, but thats a consideration. As for cross marketing? That's nothing new, companies have been selling custom sights from other MFG's for years. Maybe it's new for Ruger. So maybe the price isn't THAT outrageous, considering I just plunked down $1500 on a STOCK Colt 6920.

Third, IS there a another piston-drive AR out there for under $1500?

Fourth, how does it shoot? Isn't that what it comes down to? Accuracy vs cost vs relliability? Ruger needs to demo that at some 3 gun matches up against Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt and CMMG and whoever else is making AR's like this.

Fifth, Remingtons don't have bayonet lugs either.

M1A National Match
May 15, 2009, 08:35 PM
I would like to see one in 6.8spc . Not interested in the Ruger version of 5.56.

Me, too. But I can see where the present market dictates an initial introduction in 5.56.

I've yet to figure out if it is a mil-spec in relation to swapping out uppers, and all that. (I'm assuming it is.)

J&J
May 15, 2009, 08:36 PM
I am with Dr. Rob on this one for sure. I enjoy several Rugers right now and I say kudos to them for listening to the market...

And h eis right about the aftermarket accessories, including the magpul mags and the Troy BUIS... good stuff and not cheap...

John

Halo is for Kids
May 15, 2009, 08:56 PM
The manual has some interesting info: 1. Disassemble (field-strip) the rifle to the extent described on pages 23 - 25.
The handguard and gas block should not be removed for cleaning or maintenance.
Do not disassemble the rifle any further than as described on pages 23 - 25.
http://ruger.com/Firearms/PDF/InstructionManuals/68.pdf

Here's a good look at the upper:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r132/haloisforkids/sr556.jpg

charlesb_la
May 15, 2009, 09:01 PM
I say, hmmmm.

First off, good for Ruger. Even if it's just a ploy to stop the haters, its a direct respone to the GUN BUYING PUBLIC. And that's cool. Been shooting Rugers since I was 6 or so, they make good stuff IMHO.

Secondly, a LOT of people buy a STOCK AR for a grand or more, then immediately spend $4-500 on aftermarket parts like free floating the barrel/forearm and such. I don't know what those Troy parts would cost to PUT on a stock rifle, but thats a consideration. As for cross marketing? That's nothing new, companies have been selling custom sights from other MFG's for years. Maybe it's new for Ruger. So maybe the price isn't THAT outrageous, considering I just plunked down $1500 on a STOCK Colt 6920.

Third, IS there a another piston-drive AR out there for under $1500?

Fourth, how does it shoot? Isn't that what it comes down to? Accuracy vs cost vs relliability? Ruger needs to demo that at some 3 gun matches up against Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt and CMMG and whoever else is making AR's like this.

Fifth, Remingtons don't have bayonet lugs either.

I agree. Also is there another piston driven AR15 out there that is adjustable? I have a POF and love it but it would be nice to dial in the gas sometimes.

Another thing many have overlooked is the barrel is hammer-forged Mil-Spec 41V45 and chromed lined. How many other hammer-forged AR15 barrels are out there?

When you ad up the "extras" the price doesn't seem too bad.

Troy sights~$280
P-mags~$45
Troy Rail~$240

Why everybody upset over the MSRP? Actual street price will come down as production ramps up. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this rifle as production models get into real users hands.
__________________

TexasEd
May 15, 2009, 09:04 PM
I think Ruger will support the rifle...They have too. I know from my expierence that they are great to deal with. I have to think that they employed the investment casting process in this rifle in some way. Maybe the lower. Regardless, good for a large american company doing this.

batmann
May 15, 2009, 09:06 PM
I'm not really an AR guy, but I think that when you consider all the after market items YOU DON"T have to buy, the price looks better, at least to me.

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 09:08 PM
I'm not really an AR guy, but I think that when you consider all the after market items YOU DON"T have to buy, the price looks better, at least to me.
It does, but when you take out all the extras, it becomes a very plain AR (VERY plain) just with a piston system. I think Ruger could have done better offering a "base model" with standard stuff, vs all the troy stuff.

Eb1
May 15, 2009, 10:19 PM
I for one think..... umm... umm....

I have decided that it is a good niche gun. It is not for me. I want an AR 20" barrel A2 sights with A2 stock. When I built mine I did it for $517.00. It is still running strong. I don't have troy rails, piston gas system (adjustable), or $45 mags. My gun is just as reliable as any.

I guess what I am trying to say is that duplicating a platform that is already well into production just seems taboo. They did nothing new except start a mass production of something that did not need fixed IMO. I think they should have improved on there bolt guns. Possibly put out some tubb 2k type target guns.

I really don't know what I am talking about.

ScareyH22A
May 15, 2009, 10:27 PM
How much are SIG556's going for? And what are other comparable gas piston AR15's and their prices?

gvnwst
May 15, 2009, 10:32 PM
How much are SIG556's going for? And what are other comparable gas piston AR15's and their prices?
I think the only one that comes close to comparable is bushys, and i haven't looked at that one in a while. All the others are high end guns, same price, but with better features.

Javelin
May 15, 2009, 11:14 PM
$1,995 msrp?

RockyMtnTactical
May 15, 2009, 11:45 PM
Fugly flash hider.

twofourthree73
May 15, 2009, 11:53 PM
I was initially un-impressed, but after looking closely at the features, who wouldn't want an AK reliable piston AR, with no carrier tilt, easy to clean, sub moa, and a cold hammer forged barrel? As long as it's durable and shoots every time, what's not to like? They didn't skimp on accessories. If it hold up and shoots well, I'd get it. The grip and stock are easily changed out. If the piston system is durable and reliable, even if something breaks since ruger has a fairly large manufacturing base and are a bigger company, parts are going to be easier to get than say for an XCR.

I think this is a nice development for AR owners if this holds up.

dmckean44
May 15, 2009, 11:59 PM
It's a pretty sweet setup right out of the box. I can't really think of anything I'd add. It's obvious Ruger is trying to perfect the platform and bring the boutique AR into the mainstream.

And to everyone who was expecting to see Ruger come out with a $1000 MSRP AR-15. Did you really think they'd bring out a rifle that directly competes with the Mini-14? Really?? That's their bread a butter.

Maverick223
May 16, 2009, 12:11 AM
That's their bread [and] butter.
Nope, just the bread...the 10/22 is the butter. :D

Coal Dragger
May 16, 2009, 12:50 AM
We'll see a contented down version later on I'm sure, but right now they are trying to knock everyone's socks off with a ready to go, no accessories needed other than lights and optics, carbine.

They can back it up with well known customer service and warranty. I have few doubts that Ruger will be in business and able to back up their products for a long time to come whereas some of the smaller AR makers I am not so sure about.

I would like to know what size the trigger group pins are, because invariably the carbine will need a better trigger. Let's hope it is standard mil-spec pin size.

HiroProX
May 16, 2009, 12:54 AM
I've had good experiences with Ruger products, so I'll reserve judgment until it's been out for a bit.

gga357
May 16, 2009, 01:12 AM
I was lucky enough to hold one, it's a good rifle.

I have an SR9 and other then sending it back for a week anda half for refit I like it very much. I also got a free mag. Used it up to the same week I shipped it back and never worried.

The bolt carrier is extra long to address the complaint about the off axis force on the carrier key.

Travlin
May 16, 2009, 01:16 AM
Ruger is noted for backing their products, even if the warranty is not in writing. However, they also have their downside. If they repair your gun they also restore it to factory condition. This means that any custom work like a trigger job will be replaced with original parts. Since many AR owners love to tinker with their guns this sounds like a problem.

Ruger also keeps "critical" parts off the market so important repairs can only be done by Ruger and not gun smiths. One of the attractions of ARs is the standardized modular design and large number of parts suppliers.

Unless Ruger changes their ways on these issues I see them killing demand for their new AR before it can get established.

lvcat2004
May 16, 2009, 01:44 AM
I was lucky enough to hold one, it's a good rifle.

No offense, but that's like saying "I was lucky enough to sit in that car's seat, it's a good car"....

unless you plan on parking the car in the garage and not drive it....

I can think of a few better/proven rifles to purchase for $2000.....I just can't buy into this hyper over nothing.

fireman 9731
May 16, 2009, 01:45 AM
Yep... Bill Ruger is rolling over in his grave alright....

ECVMatt
May 16, 2009, 01:56 AM
because it seems like mostly irrational Ruger hate, but I read this:

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SR556.htm

Gunblast is not the best site and they are pro-Ruger for sure, but I do like some of the things about the rifle. I really like the adjustable gas system.

I would be willing to bet they come out with several different versions of the rifle including a basic package with a lower price.

Instead of flying into a Rugerphobic panic, I am going to wait and see what the street price is and how the rifle performs over time.

Bill Ruger is long dead and the folks running the company now have moved to put the past behind them. I feel it is very important for gun owners to stick together and support American gun companies. I sure others will disagree and pick this reply apart, but oh well..

Have a good one,

Matt

NELSONs02
May 16, 2009, 02:03 AM
I like Ruger and I like the gentlemen at gunblast.com. That being said, in this case I'd much rather have the 10/22 magnum back then a new AR I can't afford.

dakotasin
May 16, 2009, 02:04 AM
it bears repeating: $2,000...

i'll sit this one out. y'all tell me how great it is after you buy one. i'm not parting w/ $2,000 - or even $1700 (probable street price) for this one. if they can get it on my dealer's shelf for under $1500, i might look at it.

Coal Dragger
May 16, 2009, 02:23 AM
If they are all as consistent as the one reviewed in gunblast then it should be a promising carbine. I guess the rumors about Ruger learning how to make a good barrel might be true.

Detritus
May 16, 2009, 02:45 AM
from the pics on the ruger website looks like it takes a standard AR lower. so i'll wait to see which comes first, Ruger made complete uppers, or the wailed over new AWB.

Dr.Rob
May 16, 2009, 03:17 AM
OK ONE complaint... after reading the Gunblast article, there's like 156 Ruger logos on that thing (OK at least 8: handgrip x2, rear sight, buttstock, rails, receiver,forearm and the bolt) is Ruger entering it in NASCAR, or is this just on the test guns?

Maverick223
May 16, 2009, 03:30 AM
is Ruger entering it in NASCAR, or is this just on the test gunsJeff Gordon's new sponsor? :D

Cpt. America
May 16, 2009, 03:38 AM
Yea at that price I'll get one after I mortgage the house.

dmckean44
May 16, 2009, 04:03 AM
Just remember that you can spend $6000 on an AR these days easily. The $1500 street price isn't out of line at all.

rogertc1
May 16, 2009, 04:23 AM
Hope they come out with an AK47 varient next!!!!

Howaido
May 16, 2009, 06:50 AM
Again, if it is in production for 10+ years and develops a sterling rep over those 10+ years, I might consider it. I am not one to buy any new design, especially from a company that has a tarnished rep.

I will let others do my legwork for me.

The firearms systems that I rely upon have been in production and developed a good rep for 59, 28, 60, 58, and 21 years.

Eb1
May 16, 2009, 09:24 AM
This will be my 3rd post on this thread. I will the the sarcasm out this time.

Everyone, it is me, or does this really seem outrageous. Well by the looks of the posts most think the same.

Why wouldn't in a time where out RKBA is possibly in danger, and with people loosing there jobs would you put out a $2000.00 platform that really gives nothing new.
Like someone above said. Wouldn't a 10/22WMR be a better option for the US Citizen? Something priced affordable, and that can be used on WMA's for hunting. Something that will defend your family, and be loads of fun without breaking the bank. If you ask me, and none of you did, but Ruger missed the boat. Everyone who wanted an AR15 prolly now has one. At least it seems that way. I know a bunch of people who bought S&W M&P's or RRA. They are going to be very happy with there guns.
The market doesn't need a $2000.00 AR15 clone. It needs modest priced firearms that will arm citizens.

TexasRifleman
May 16, 2009, 09:31 AM
Wouldn't a 10/22WMR be a better option for the US Citizen?

22WMR has always been a niche thing.
Many of the stores around me don't even carry ammo in 22WMR. If they do it's an occasional box here and there.

I have to think that introducing a rifle with a niche chambering would not be a good financial move.
Ammo supplies would make it hard to sell the rifle.

The market doesn't need a $2000.00 AR15 clone. It needs modest priced firearms that will arm citizens.

This is a piston driven upper, not DI.

For a major manufacturer to introduce a line of piston only rifles is a big step. Ruger is in business to sell rifles.

If this prices in under 1500 I think they will sell them as quick as they can make them. But they are going to have to be priced properly.
$2000 won't sell. We'll see what the real price turns out to be soon I suspect.

To many people, though I am not one of them, a piston AR is an entirely new rifle, not just another clone.

Aquila
May 16, 2009, 11:03 AM
This is *NOT* a "new design"...

TexasRifleman
May 16, 2009, 11:15 AM
This is *NOT* a "new design"...

Of course not, but it's the first piston AR being sold by a major US manufacturer. That's entirely new.
That's huge.

Huge politically in that the AR is now truly in "common use" since every major maker now has an AR of some kind, and huge for the piston fans because it's no longer a "niche" market.

ArmedBear
May 16, 2009, 11:47 AM
Why wouldn't in a time where out RKBA is possibly in danger, and with people loosing there jobs would you put out a $2000.00 platform that really gives nothing new.

Because when DHS comes for our Mini-14s, Ruger will be there to sell them the rifles they can use to shoot us. The new rifles sell for a lot more than the Minis, so it's an easy business decision to make, really, when you have to pick a side.

When one Fed LE agency or another goes in to gun down a pro-life group holding a candlelight vigil in the local park, round up people with bumper stickers that complain about taxes, and shoot anyone seen with a Gadsden t-shirt, Ruger will be there to sell them the rifles to do it with.

Oh wait, DHS rescinded that report... A couple times I think...

See, like Texasrifleman, I thought this would be a good thing, politically. But whoever made the video obviously is turned on sexually by the thought of arming what during the Clinton years we called "jack-booted government thugs."

While some have been offended by Ruger's slogan, "Arms Makers for Responsible Citizens", I think it's FAR better than, "We welcome any opportunity to profit from our new overlords!"

Queltor
May 16, 2009, 02:46 PM
This thread is filled with a lot of fear and hate.

To bad it's supposed to be a discussion about Ruger's newest rifle.
Considering what they're offering, $2000 is a reasonable price. Take any decent AR platform, add on all the features Ruger included, and you'd be hard pressed to beat that price.

I'm interested. I'll wait until more people have a chance to test the SR-556, but I'm interested. And I might even be in the market for one.

ArmedBear
May 16, 2009, 03:01 PM
This thread is filled with a lot of fear and hate.


ROTFLMAO

Ruger still has a bit of a bill to pay. A little fun at their expense is hardly unjustified on a number of levels.

And no doubt any other company (Colt, FN, SIG, Winchester, Remington, Bushmaster, whoever) that put out a big promotion like that, with a countdown, would invite ridicule for the drama-marketing.

To take it out of the politically-charged context of Ruger and "assault weapons", what about Browning and the Cynergy? They didn't even hype it that much, and it really WAS a big change in a somewhat-stale niche. They took crap for it, too. (Yes, there is a whole big world out there that has nothing to do with ARs and AKs.)

Reid73
May 16, 2009, 03:19 PM
Also is there another piston driven AR15 out there that is adjustable? I have a POF and love it but it would be nice to dial in the gas sometimes.Just buy an FAL.

Yawn.

C-grunt
May 16, 2009, 03:33 PM
I got to handle one yesterday at the NRA show and was pretty impressed. Lots of aftermarket stuff on it. The adjustable gas system is cool and easy to use. The piston system was fairly easy to disassemble and clean. Chrome plated bolt looked nicely made. I would buy one no doubt.

Heres a picture I took with my phone.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm229/killerchase2000/SR556.jpg

possum
May 16, 2009, 04:16 PM
i have been telling people here and every where since december and no one wanted to believe me.

possum
May 16, 2009, 04:20 PM
the ruger piston operated ar that i have been saying was comming, well here it is. i have been waiting on it since december of last year, i will check one out just because, but that is it.

http://www.ruger.com/SR556/index.html

R.W.Dale
May 16, 2009, 04:31 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=450116

flyingdeserteagle
May 16, 2009, 04:47 PM
wow
news to me

I dunno about their pricing though. $2K buys alot of AR elsewhere, right?

jimmyraythomason
May 16, 2009, 04:52 PM
Nevermind,krockus said it better.

weeniewawa
May 16, 2009, 05:01 PM
ooohh, $1995.00

a bit steep

ultralightbackpacker
May 16, 2009, 05:24 PM
I love how the say "significantly improved reliability".

My AR that I built years ago, I have fired 500 rounds in one day without a hiccup and never a clean or even a snake that day. I think I will keep my 2k for other firearms. However, It would be fun to play with though.

Take care,

Polar Express
May 16, 2009, 05:32 PM
nice video, makes me want to own one. The problem is that at $2K, I don't want to buy it. It might shoot like a dream, but you can get plenty of proven quality in the same platform for a LOT less. I wonder how much of the internals are common, or how much is proprietary.

Another member (don't recall the alias) said it very well in a previous thread: at the very least, this puts Ruger in our camp in the RTKBA efforts.

looks cool though.....

browningguy
May 16, 2009, 05:32 PM
For $2k you could have a Sig 556 and leftovers for a bunch of ammo. As much as I like Ruger it's not happening for me.

Armed012002
May 16, 2009, 05:48 PM
It will sell and all the haters will be flabbergasted.

It's tacti-cool, so people will buy it.

Look at how much money people are buying ARs for right now.

It's called supply and demand.

Whether Ruger sells these rifles for $1,000 or $2,000, people will buy every one Ruger makes.

There will probably even be backorder lists for the rifle!

As the buying frenzy for "black rifles" calms down, so too will the price inflation. Ruger will lower the MSRP when supply meets or exceeds demand.

charlesb_la
May 16, 2009, 05:50 PM
Just buy an FAL.

Yawn.

Well my first reply was deleted as a personal attack.:rolleyes:
So I'll give it another try.

Since you are recommending a FAL I would assume you are familiar with the platform. I am and would say that it is very different from the AR15. The AR15 platform has advantages in areas suck as ergonomics, trigger, accuracy, and modularity. These are areas that are of great concern to shooters that actually shoot their rifle wouldn't you agree?

My point in my post wast to point out that the adjustable gas block is a desirable feature especially to shooters that shoot suppressed.

As far as your "yawn" I'll just have to say...

Yawn.

Lone_Gunman
May 16, 2009, 09:20 PM
I for one think this rifle will sell well. I do not think the MSRP is all that bad.

Gas piston AR's cost an extra $300 usually.
The rail system is another $200
The BUIS are another $200

So basically, if you take the standard price of a basic AR like Bushmaster ( say $1000) and add $700 of accessories, you get what Ruger is selling.

I think the MSRP is about right. I expect street price will be $1600 or so, and for what you are getting that is not too bad. I think a lot of people are just looking at the MSRP and thinking $2000 for an AR is a rip off. They would be right if it was just a plain AR, but this one is not.

Texpatriate
May 16, 2009, 09:57 PM
For political reasons, I like this ("common use" clause of Heller), but I cannot honestly see myself buying a Ruger AR clone when I can assemble my own AR that I know meets the mil-spec requirements for less than slightly less than 1/2 the price. I'm not convinced of the necessity of the gas piston system either. The more the merrier though...

ArmedBear
May 16, 2009, 10:34 PM
Whether Ruger sells these rifles for $1,000 or $2,000, people will buy every one Ruger makes.


Ruger's track record of late says that we'll see these hit the shelves in Spring or early Summer of 2010. Will that be soon enough to catch the black rifle bubble? I doubt it.

But it's true: why wouldn't they sell? People pay that for piston ARs now.

Not me, but "people" do.

charlesb_la
May 16, 2009, 11:05 PM
Ruger's track record of late says that we'll see these hit the shelves in Spring or early Summer of 2010. Will that be soon enough to catch the black rifle bubble? I doubt it.

According to the interview by Michael Bain at Ruger's booth at the NRA show they will ship at the beginning of June.

http://www.downrange.tv/blog/?page_id=6

And this picture would suggest that they have made over 6000 of them(or at least have the lowers ready) unless they produced a ton of prototypes.
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-SR556/DSC07702.JPG

RP88
May 16, 2009, 11:08 PM
I doubt the price would be less than 1800-1900 bucks, given what you get for the money. Given the current demand, I'd say you would see it for more than 2000 for awhile, before going back down to about the 1800-1900 dollar mark. That really does seem to be about the right price for the market.

I'm just waiting to see how it holds up. And if it works and shoots as nicely as it looks, then I'd imagine the next step would to start putting out Ruger DI ARs without the soup-ups and see how that works out.

dmckean44
May 16, 2009, 11:46 PM
Well dealer cost is going to be around $1400 from what I understand.

ctlee
May 17, 2009, 11:06 PM
It seems like a good thing to me that Ruger is willing to make an AR15 clone.
I wonder why they did not offer a few variants like a 20" barrel or heck chamber in .243 Winchester.

RockyMtnTactical
May 18, 2009, 12:26 AM
I would bet you can get them from a decent dealer for $1600 and up.

Eb1
May 18, 2009, 01:12 AM
To be honest. I hope the dang thing shoots like a dream, and everyone who buys one is happy with their purchase.
I also have to agree after some thought that this may put Ruger on more supportive side of being pro 2A, but there is always that lingering thought of, "Only cops and military need guns like these." type comments.

We will just have to wait and see, but I tell you this. If I had $2k to spend on a gun. It would not be an AR clone w/piston. It would be for a Freedom Arms .45 Colt, or if a service rifle, M1A Match.

I do hope that the gun is what is says it is. I come to this only after some long thought about it.

peyton
May 18, 2009, 01:19 AM
The AR platform prices will go down, in several years from now. During my short time at home I never walked into a gun shop that had many on the sales rack. Ruger needs to get these out in quanity and the sooner the better. Hopefully the accuracy and reliablity is good.

Armed012002
May 18, 2009, 07:39 PM
I'd like to see Ruger come out with a basic model with flat top upper receiver for mounting optics, plastic forearm, standard front iron sight, and standard detachable rear iron sight.

That should lower the price by about $300 and you'll still have a gas piston driven carbine that you could mount an Aimpoint, EOTech, Trijicon, etc. sight to.

Smith & Wesson and others sell so-called "optics ready" models with no iron sights. Ruger could lower the price by an additional $50 for an "optics ready" model.

So, without the bells and whistles, the MSRP is more like $1,645 to $1,695.

Kind of Blued
May 18, 2009, 10:29 PM
I'm all for this. I won't buy one, because I can't afford one, and my direct-impingement guns work just fine, dirty, dry, or both, but I'm glad Ruger is going into this territory. Here's why:

A) It posthumously removes the foot a few inches out of Bill Ruger's mouth, especially with THREE 30-round mags INCLUDED;

B) As far as I can tell, the only thing Ruger is doing is making barrels. That's not a lot for them to muck up, necessitating a recall. This model is already "souped-up", so they can do a stripped down piston gun for maybe $500 less in the near future. A bare-bones reliable, accurate gun, comparable to a Sig 556 (assuming no "muck-up") for a little over $1K street-price would be really sweet.

C) The more ARs (or EBRs) the better, especially if they're made by a "major name" (read: Heller & "common use"). The camo on Remington's guns kind of "fudds them up" and makes them not count in the eyes of idiotic cosmetic gun-banners, so I'm happy to see this gun.

D) Where the hell is the bayonet lug?!?!

NC-Mike
May 18, 2009, 10:40 PM
So are these rifles going to be sold in Wal-Marts with the other Rugers? :evil:

Fburgtx
May 19, 2009, 11:24 AM
I'm glad some of you see this as a "good" thing in regards to Ruger being more "pro" 2nd Amendment. In some ways, it should certainly help with the whole "common useage" thing when it comes to AR's and black rifles in general.

On the other hand, let me present a less appealing possibility. What happens if Ruger gets a huge government contract on these things?? We've all seen how the Federal Government uses money to essentially "blackmail" the states into doing what it wants. What happens when all these gun companies are effectively "dependent" on government contracts (fed/state/local)?? Whose "side" do you think the companies will take?? Do you think they'll care that much about selling a few thousand of this and a few thousand of that to civilians when it could possibly cost them a HUGE government contract??? So far, we haven't really seen anything like this happen(FN is making Win70's, Colt still makes AR's/1911's for the public), but it seems that the possibility is always there to take advantage of the situation..

TexasRifleman
May 19, 2009, 12:06 PM
What happens if Ruger gets a huge government contract on these things??

But as you say....

So far, we haven't really seen anything like this happen

I've seen that worry for years, and it's always possible sure.

But honestly even if it happens in this case, it's just Ruger.

There are thousands of other gun makers out there. Ruger tried getting in bed with the government once and it nearly killed them.

Don't underestimate the civilian AR market. It's more than a few thousand rifles that Ruger can sell here if they are smart.

If Ruger wants to pull another bonehead move, let them.
Their loss.

As an aside, I don't see huge government contracts in Ruger's future for this thing. The Mini/AC was attractive to LE because it was cheap, not much else.

Reid73
May 19, 2009, 12:34 PM
Well my first reply was deleted as a personal attack.No need for personal attacks here. If you like the new rifle, then by all means give Ruger your $2,000. I did not and do not suggest that that choice will somehow make you, or anyone else, a lesser person.

Since you are recommending a FAL I would assume you are familiar with the platform. I am and would say that it is very different from the AR15.I have used both rifles in the military and am quite familar with them.

The AR15 platform has advantages in areas suck as ergonomics, trigger, accuracy, and modularity. These are areas that are of great concern to shooters that actually shoot their rifle wouldn't you agree?I agree that ergonomics, trigger and general accuracy are important. I do not agree that "modularity" has any practical value, at least not for serious use as a service rifle (it may appeal to the ninja commandos).

In my experience, the FN is at least as accurate rifle as the M-16. And of course its 7.62 cartridge is superior for combat purposes.

Neither rifle has a particularly exceptional trigger. Both are reasonably good, and if desired can be improved with tuning.

The ergonomics are pretty much equal. The FN doesn't have a "forward assist", but it doesn't need one either.

Finally, the FN is a sturdier, more reliable rifle than the M-16. It's simply heavier built, and its spring-loaded piston keeps on working after the direct gas system has fouled.

My point in my post wast to point out that the adjustable gas block is a desirable feature especially to shooters that shoot suppressed.Yes it is. But the FN has had a fully-adjustable gas regulator for almost 60 years. It is by no means the innovative feature that Ruger claims.

jpcolt76
May 19, 2009, 06:18 PM
I am happy anytime someone brings another choice to our market. I believe Ruger's mistake was to come to this market at such a high price. To me it would be like Rock River unveiling a new bolt action rifle that looks like a 700 in a HS stock at $2000. How many people would go for that when they could get a real 700 in a fancy stock for alot less.

Lone_Gunman
May 19, 2009, 06:51 PM
I still don't see why people are saying this is so overpriced.

It has a gas piston system, which adds about $400 to the MSRP of other ARs. It includes full length rails and folding iron sights. It also comes with three rather than two magazines, rail covers, and a Hogue monogrip.

All together these add ons are probably worth about $850, so if this was a regular AR the MSRP would be more like $1200.

The gas piston Bushmaster has a MSRP of $1850. The Ruger is more, but not much more, and comes with a lot of extras.

gvnwst
May 19, 2009, 06:57 PM
I still don't see why people are saying this is so overpriced.Its a Ruger. They are not known for having such prices, for what it offers, sure, it is a DECENT price, probably will be at street price, but at MSRP, it is fighting against guns that all are from known AR makers, who make super quaity guns, and who have better features. Better triggers and stocks and barrels for instance.

I do have to say though, this 2 stage gas system looks intresting....wonder it will work how it is suppossed to.

TexasRifleman
May 19, 2009, 07:06 PM
It has a gas piston system, which adds about $400 to the MSRP of other ARs.

Adding PRICE and adding VALUE are not the same thing.

For most shooters the piston upper doesn't add VALUE. For the piston lovers it is great but for general shooters it doesn't really matter much, at least not yet.
Piston ARs being a relatively rare thing for now it's not a value add.

So in the scheme of things, for real world pricing, you have to leave the cost of the piston upper out of consideration in my opinion.

Now, down the road if the piston turns out to be better once there are large numbers of rifles in use maybe......

Lone_Gunman
May 19, 2009, 07:23 PM
For most shooters the piston upper doesn't add VALUE.

I agree, and feel the gas piston system is a questionable improvement. I haven't had problems with my 6920 or Bushmaster jamming up or getting to hot with the usual direct impingement system.

So in the scheme of things, for real world pricing, you have to leave the cost of the piston upper out of consideration in my opinion.

I think when comparing prices you really have to compare it to other gas piston AR's. If you are not in the market for a gas piston AR, then certainly the Ruger isnt the rifle you need to be looking at because you are paying a lot of extra money for a feature you don't want.

I am sort of interested in trying on of these for a couple of reasons. First is the novelty of the gas piston system. Second, it is a Ruger, and I would rather deal with their customer service than about any body elses.

I think Ruger would have been better off to have released a version without the rail system and other add ons, so the MSRP would have been lower. I think a lot of people are thinking "$2000 AR, no way!!!" without looking closely at what the rifle offers.

charlesb_la
May 19, 2009, 08:42 PM
I think Ruger would have been better off to have released a version without the rail system and other add ons, so the MSRP would have been lower. I think a lot of people are thinking "$2000 AR, no way!!!" without looking closely at what the rifle offers.

Yes that's what a bunch of gun nuts on the internet are saying but when these rifles end up in gun stores in every nook and cranny of the country potential buyers won't care about the MSRP, all that will matter is the price it would cost them to walk out the door with it. Does anyone actually know the MSRP of the last gun you bought?

I think once production ramps up the actual street price will be $1500-$1600 and won't look so bad next to the other rifles on the rack. Some rifles won't have iron sights, some won't have rails, you need extra mags etc. The Ruger will be a turn key solution for many shooters. Many will read about it and know about the quality extras thrown in and will feel secure in buying a Ruger because in 10 years Ruger will still be here pumping out 10/22's and be around to service the rifle.

Their name recognition will carry bunch of weight. Most shooters have been exposed to piston ARs through the gun media but how many actually know anything about LWRC, POF or LMT? Even if they do Ruger's far reaching distribution system will have this rifle out there so people can actually handle the rifle and that will lead to sales. I bought a POF 2 years ago, and love the rifle, but many shooters wouldn't go through what I did to buy it.

If this rifle performs it will sell.

Even if the rifle doesn't set the world on fire it is an important step in redefining the company and that is a good thing for all shooters.

Travis Bickle
May 19, 2009, 09:03 PM
Its a Ruger. They are not known for having such prices, for what it offers, sure, it is a DECENT price, probably will be at street price, but at MSRP, it is fighting against guns that all are from known AR makers, who make super quaity guns, and who have better features. Better triggers and stocks and barrels for instance.

Ruger would've been a lot smarter to start making AKs. There is a big need for a US company to start manufacturing quality AKs since they're banned from importation but, like you posted, the AR market is totally saturated. Not only that, but Ruger is known for making tough, reliable guns that won't break the bank, and the AK was designed to be a tough, reliable gun that wouldn't break the bank. It seems to me that the two would go together like toast and jam.

gvnwst
May 19, 2009, 09:21 PM
Ruger would've been a lot smarter to start making AKs. There is a big need for a US company to start manufacturing quality AKs since they're banned from importation but, like you posted, the AR market is totally saturated. Not only that, but Ruger is known for making tough, reliable guns that won't break the bank, and the AK was designed to be a tough, reliable gun that wouldn't break the bank. It seems to me that the two would go together like toast and jam.

I agree, but i am not sure how well they would sell till other AKs were banned from importation, the prices a american company would have to charge to make them...

Maverick223
May 19, 2009, 09:30 PM
Have to agree with gvn, AKs are still too cheap for a US manufacturer to tool up for and match the current price. Saiga pretty much has the market on new AK weapons and would prove to be stiff competition, as they have been churning them out for decades. Also, who wants a AK that could be recalled at any time? :neener:

basicblur
May 19, 2009, 09:53 PM
I agree, and feel the gas piston system is a questionable improvement. I haven't had problems with my 6920 or Bushmaster jamming up or getting to hot with the usual direct impingement system.

I'm not sold on the piston either (but then I'm a pragmatist)-I was listening to a recent Gunfighter Cast podcast (bunch of active Marines, some being range instructors) where they gave some thoughts on piston vs DI. They were discussing what they had seen at the range with both their and other military groups informal testing-think it was the HK compared to their M4s-they reported their M4s were around 1" MOA-the piston ARs were around 4" MOA.

Hey, I don't make the news...I just report it! :D

gvnwst
May 19, 2009, 09:55 PM
Well, my piston rifle will do sub MOA easily, with a better than me shooter, and good ammo. Its all in the design, there are cheap ones, and there are good ones. (cheap not as in price, but design, they are still expensive)

Travis Bickle
May 19, 2009, 10:01 PM
Saiga pretty much has the market on new AK weapons and would prove to be stiff competition, as they have been churning them out for decades.

Unless Saiga has a plant in the U.S., they can't offer AKs with all the goodies (flash supressor, pistol grip, etc.) Ruger could.

TexasRifleman
May 19, 2009, 10:25 PM
The wild card in a domestic produced AK is the ammo.

Not a lot of domestic x39. For the most part the market is dependent on imported ammo supplies at a low cost.

Wouldn't take much politically to hurt that.

Would be a hard decision to bet a company on something like that. The Mini 30 market hasn't exactly been stellar.

If US ammo makers would step up to the x39 plate maybe but since the round has no LE or gov use here in the states I don't see that happening.

Maverick223
May 19, 2009, 10:26 PM
they reported their M4s were around 1" MOA-the piston ARs were around 4" MOA.
The piston does hinder accuracy a little, but I have trouble believing 4MOA unless it is a substandard specimen.
Unless Saiga has a plant in the U.S., they can't offer AKs with all the goodies (flash supressor, pistol grip, etc.) Ruger could.
I don't believe that the Russians are invading :D, but you can easily convert one as long as you meet 922r requirements.

Travis Bickle
May 19, 2009, 10:41 PM
If US ammo makers would step up to the x39 plate maybe

If imports of AK ammo were ever banned, they would. However, right now, they couldn't make any money, since the Russians can do it a lot cheaper.

Travis Bickle
May 19, 2009, 10:47 PM
I don't believe that the Russians are invading , but you can easily convert one as long as you meet 922r requirements.

I'm betting lots of people would pay extra for the convenience of having what they want right out of the box without having to fart around with any stupid thumbhole stocks or U.S. parts requirements. I certainly would.

TexasRifleman
May 19, 2009, 10:50 PM
If imports of AK ammo were ever banned, they would. However, right now, they couldn't make any money, since the Russians can do it a lot cheaper.

I'm not sure they could justify adding the capacity. They can't currently keep up with the LE style rounds of 5.56 and .308.

With a nonexistent LE and military market it would be hard to justify tooling up to make x39 for civilians only and produce it in high quantity.

It's all possible of course, but that's my belief as to why gun makers are not interested in pursuing an AK in a major way.

seeker_two
May 19, 2009, 10:59 PM
Congratulations, Ruger....you've become as innovative as all the other AR makers out there.... :rolleyes:

+1 on a domestic AK or Dragunov-style rifle...esp. in calibers like .223, .243, .260, and .308.....or refine the Mini platform to take the .308 family like they once proposed.....

Maverick223
May 19, 2009, 11:05 PM
The AKs I will leave to Ivan (unless imports are banned) but a domestic Dragunov would be great. I could deal with .308, but I rather like the original in 7.62R.

Kind of Blued
May 20, 2009, 03:03 AM
D. They're marketing this to police agencies (see video) and they have no need for the lug.

As if it is a huge burden gone unused? Cops probably don't need the last 1/2" of shoelace on their shoes either.

Maverick223
May 20, 2009, 03:40 AM
cops probably don't need the last 1/2" of shoelace on their shoes either.
rofl :D

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