AK47 parts kits and full auto parts?


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PILMAN
February 28, 2009, 05:37 PM
I realize that when people buy parts kits online, sometimes they come with parts like the auto sear and trigger/hammer that must be discarded or cannot be used with the build.

I've heard rumors however that certain AK47 rifles and kits contain full auto bolt carriers and I'm wondering if this is true and a possible liability?

I read that Hungarian, Maadi, and Finnish variants all had the full auto bolt carrier.

I've also read that Romanian G kits which were Guarda variants given to the Patriotic Guard were semi-automatic only by cutting the disconnector, but when the communist days ended in Romania, many of the G kits apparently had so called full auto bolt carriers.

If this is true, how can you identify if the bolt carrier is infact a full auto bolt carrier, in that case, isn't that a liability as you cannot use full auto parts in a semi-automatic weapon legally?

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rcmodel
February 28, 2009, 05:40 PM
It doesn't matter as long as you don't have the fire-control parts in the gun.

Many new AR-15's come from the factory with full-auto M-16 bolt carriers in them.

rc

nalioth
February 28, 2009, 06:08 PM
Full auto AK parts will not work with the US made receivers.

It's not an issue.

PILMAN
February 28, 2009, 06:17 PM
Full auto AK parts will not work with the US made receivers.

It's not an issue.

If that is true, how are builders assembling romanian G kits on US receivers?

nalioth
February 28, 2009, 06:59 PM
If that is true, how are builders assembling romanian G kits on US receivers?

I am unsure what you are getting at.

The 922r laws are at work here.

ETA: Perhaps you inferred that I meant that the gun would not function at all with full auto parts in a US made receiver. That is not what I meant.

The full auto parts will never go full auto in a factory specced US made receiver, but will work fine in semiauto. Some of the "full auto parts" won't even fit in a US factory specced receiver.


As I said, it's a non-issue, and has been a non-issue for years.

PTK
February 28, 2009, 07:22 PM
Most builders sell the FA parts to supply houses, and the FA bolt carrier JUST has a tiny bump of an auto trip, is all.

MagnumDweeb
February 28, 2009, 07:32 PM
Go to Nodakspud, get the right receiver(it's semi-auto only) and get a Tapco or other U.S. made FCG.

I've got an M70AB2(the underfolder), a Romy G, M64(same guns as the M70, just a screw in barrel), rifles in my collection that I built from kits, get the receivers from Nodak, I did my own receivers for the Romy G and M70 but I'd rather use another guy's product should I have the chance to sell it later on for a considerable profit. My old M70s(got three for less than 200 well before the election, three M64s and three Romy Gs, gotta love spare parts) are now going for over $250 or $300. I've ordered up new receivers from Nodak and am going ahead to finish another gun of each just in case the AWB passes and my guns can get grandfathered in (and sell one of each[having two of each] with the FFL okay receivers at a massive profit). I'm waiting on my two new CETME kits to arrive (did one previously with an American made FFL okay receiver and it's been a great shooter after I refinished the parts). FAL parts kits are too expensive for my tastes, even with the homebrew 80% receivers).

PILMAN
February 28, 2009, 07:44 PM
I already have a Romanian G built on a NDS-3 receiver.

The Deer Hunter
February 28, 2009, 09:39 PM
I was at a gun show down in Florida a couple years back and I overheard a guy buying a full auto fire control kit.

FWIW.

nalioth
February 28, 2009, 11:34 PM
I was at a gun show down in Florida a couple years back and I overheard a guy buying a full auto fire control kit. You can buy them at any gun show.

They will not work with factory US made receivers.

I think a lot of this confusion is caused by the DIAS of AR15 fame. Nothing like that exists for the Kalashnikov.

Ian
March 1, 2009, 01:45 AM
There's not really any such thing as a semiauto AK bolt carrier. The same bolt carrier works just fine in either semi or full guns, and doesn't need to be modified for a semi build. The relevant parts are the fire control group, and a fullauto set of those requires non-trivial modification to a semiauto receiver to be used.

WardenWolf
March 1, 2009, 02:11 AM
I should note that simply possessing those FCG parts could be considered constructive possession, and I would strongly urge anyone to get rid of them immediately. While they will not fit an unmodified semi-auto AK receiver, the required modifications are, to my understanding, very minor. Because of this, I STRONGLY recommend anyone who comes across these parts to dispose of them immediately. Personally, I would smash them with a hammer before putting them in the trash just to be safe. The bolt carrier, on the other hand, nobody cares about.

nalioth
March 1, 2009, 03:05 AM
I should note that simply possessing those FCG parts could be considered constructive possession, and I would strongly urge anyone to get rid of them immediately. While they will not fit an unmodified semi-auto AK receiver, the required modifications are, to my understanding, very minor. Because of this, I STRONGLY recommend anyone who comes across these parts to dispose of them immediately. Personally, I would smash them with a hammer before putting them in the trash just to be safe. The bolt carrier, on the other hand, nobody cares about. . . and to continue further down the trail, i would STRONGLY suggest you get rid of your hack saws and dremels, as possession of those can be considered 'constructive possession' of an unregistered short barreled shotgun or unregistered short barreled rifle, or even <GASP> an unregistered selective fire weapon.

I believe you are taking "constructive possession" far around the corner.

WardenWolf
March 1, 2009, 03:21 AM
Not really. The ATF generally considers one or more part(s) to be the defining piece(s) of a machine gun. On an AK, this is typically the 3rd hole in the receiver. However, it can also be extended to the trigger group parts that could be installed in 5 minutes with a drill. You do NOT want to be in possession of those parts. You can be charged with "intent to assemble". Absolutely NO good can come to you from having those parts. You cannot use them, and they're a legal nightmare waiting to happen. The best thing you can do is trash them and pretend you never even saw them.

Why take risks when dealing with an agency long known for lies and thuggery? Seriously, why? When you've got parts that you cannot use, that can potentially bring you all manner of trouble, why on earth would you hang on to them? There's no benefit. Trash them.

nalioth
March 1, 2009, 03:28 AM
Not really. The ATF generally considers one or more part(s) to be the defining piece(s) of a machine gun. On an AK, this is typically the 3rd hole in the receiver. However, it can also be extended to the trigger group parts that could be installed in 5 minutes with a drill. You do NOT want to be in possession of those parts. You can be charged with "intent to assemble". Absolutely NO good can come to you from having those parts. You cannot use them, and they're a legal nightmare waiting to happen. The best thing you can do is trash them and pretend you never even saw them.

Why take risks when dealing with an agency long known for lies and thuggery? Seriously, why? When you've got parts that you cannot use, that can potentially bring you all manner of trouble, why on earth would you hang on to them? There's no benefit. Trash them. I'm not sure if you know this, but the fire control groups in military AKs are hand fitted, and if you are going to make an SBR/pistol from your kit, they are the best fire control groups to use.

Please take off your tinfoil hat, dude. If the alphabet gang wants you for something, you've already stepped off into the deep doodoo somewhere.

Ian
March 1, 2009, 03:49 AM
Just to elaborate on nalioth's comments, the main reason people get US-made semi fire control parts (whether they know it or not) is to get up to the necessary number of US-made parts. Original military FCGs work fine for semi guns, you simply leave the last component out (and don't have the hole for it in the receiver). My understanding is that the Romanian "G" rifles were actually issued with semi-only FCGs (though with full auto capable receivers) because they were going to the Romanian Civil Guard, and not the Army itself.

Anyway, you can do that with pistol or SBR builds because the US parts count requirement only applies to rifles, not other types of guns.

nalioth
March 1, 2009, 04:08 AM
Anyway, you can do that with pistol or SBR builds because the US parts count requirement only applies to rifles, not other types of guns. Let's not forget the shotgun part of the law. :)

CAP1
March 2, 2009, 12:30 AM
Many new AR-15's come from the factory with full-auto M-16 bolt carriers in them.

Not sure about this one. ?

beatcop
March 2, 2009, 12:48 AM
Many new AR-15's come from the factory with full-auto M-16 bolt carriers in them.

Negative, there's a thread in ar15.com FAQ about this subject.

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