H&K MP5 vs H&K USC vs FN PS90


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Maverick223
February 28, 2009, 09:43 PM
Deciding to buy SMG/carbine, leaning towards a pistol caliber such as 9mm or 45ACP. Feel free to suggest others; Any thoughts?

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Maverick223
February 28, 2009, 09:57 PM
The MP5 and Uzi are clones...not original copies.:(

SimpleIsGood229
February 28, 2009, 10:03 PM
First of all, what do you like in an SMG/carbine? They all have their own merits.

Gelgoog
February 28, 2009, 10:12 PM
I vote IMI uzi. Having bought one myself, I must say they are pretty nice.

A) price: you can usually find an IMI action arms uzi for around $1,000 and vector uzi's which used to be a bargin at $625 are now almost the same price as an IMI uzi.

B) Plentiful and cheap accessories. more so then any other option

C) Its heavy, but very ruggedly built and its simple. Probably the easiest gun to disassemble and clean that ive ever seen.

D) will eat any ammo, never had any problem with it.

E) the closed bolt semi autos are actually pretty accurate, so dont listen the the rumors of the uzi's inaccuracy, because those are mostly attributed to the open bolt fullauto version.

F) did I mention it was the cheapest option?

as far as others...well there is the DSA TP9 ( or the original version Steyr SPP). I have a TP9 coming in the mail, so I can't give any review on it yet.

nwilliams
February 28, 2009, 10:13 PM
Still have to go with PS90.

If I could get my hands on a real MP5 then I would pick that hands down. For what's available for us citizens I would choose the PS90. All of the MP5 clones that I've owned in the past were absolute junk.

GTFord1
February 28, 2009, 10:20 PM
I own both a USC and PS90. I kinda like shooting the USC better, honestly. It's not converted for higher mag capacity though, so it sucks in that regard. I have no practical purpose for either.

Maverick223
February 28, 2009, 10:20 PM
vector uzi's which used to be a bargin at $625 are now almost the same price as an IMI uzi
:what:Didn't realize you could buy a IMI (without stamp that is) due to the barrel and sear. So they make legal guns for us folks so far away?

Maverick223
February 28, 2009, 10:23 PM
Thanks for stickin with me yawl. :D

Gelgoog
February 28, 2009, 10:33 PM
Didn't realize you could buy a IMI (without stamp that is) due to the barrel and sear. So they make legal guns for us folks so far away?

Well you can buy a semi-automatic IMI imported by Action arms. No sear, but I do believe the are easily converted if you have one.

Maverick223
February 28, 2009, 10:36 PM
I have no practical purpose for either.
Do you shoot it...sounds practical to me. "The only gun that is not practical is the one that hangs on the wall."

Good thing I am completely practical. :evil: Guns on the old "to do list":
1. SMG/Carbine TBD (for the elusive Cape Rhin-ephant?)
2. Desert Tactical SRS in .338 Lapua (for short range engagements with possums)
3. CZ 550 American Safari Magnum in .458 Lott (for Squirels?)
4. Dragunov SVD (for Pheasant?)
5. Tera-watt Lazer (for deer?)

Maverick223
February 28, 2009, 10:40 PM
Well you can buy a semi-automatic IMI imported by Action arms. No sear, but I do believe the are easily converted if you have one.
Not interested in conversion, due to lack of funding (they eat too much). Thanks for the info, welcome to THR. :D

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 01:54 PM
Any1 know who makes a good MP5 copy? Since I can't use my .45 USP mags in a USC i'm starting to lean that way; assuming I can still get a reliable clone. I have heard horror stories about some.

Pulse
March 1, 2009, 02:07 PM
since Gelgoog mentioned the TP9, wich is made by Brügger & Thomet, i assume you can also get the BT96 MP5 clone via DSArms.

Brügger & Thomet will built your MP5 to your specs, if you want the 'MP5 Kurz' version without buttstock, they will do it.

looking at the B&T homepage, DS Arms Inc is listed as there sole US distributor.

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 02:16 PM
First of all, what do you like in an SMG/carbine? They all have their own merits.
Fun to shoot is always good. Don't too much care for the style of the TP9 [in carbine config], however their 338 sniper rifle looks nice.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 1, 2009, 02:51 PM
Other: Suppressed KRISS Super-V or bust!

Gelgoog
March 1, 2009, 03:02 PM
since Gelgoog mentioned the TP9, wich is made by Brügger & Thomet, i assume you can also get the BT96 MP5 clone via DSArms.

Brügger & Thomet will built your MP5 to your specs, if you want the 'MP5 Kurz' version without buttstock, they will do it.

looking at the B&T homepage, DS Arms Inc is listed as there sole US distributor.

I dont think the B&T 96 is imported into the states, its only available in europe from all the info I can find.

gvnwst
March 1, 2009, 03:08 PM
I would go with the PS90, but taht is because they FIT me, and they are way cool. The 50rd mag capacity is not that big of a downside either...


Now if you can afford it, i agree with Dr. Tad....:evil::D

Gunnerpalace
March 1, 2009, 03:09 PM
Go with the PS90, Ammo is a little harder to find but to be honest for every good Vector Uzi story there are 3 bad ones,

The USC isn't really worth it unless you decide to do the UMP mod,

MP5 clones.....suck......a lot, Same with Vector the ratio good to bad is like the lotto, Unless you get a HK94 but that may or may not be in your price range.

The PS90 had 50rd mags going for it and some modibility certain all the ones you listed can be modded but it seems a little easier for the FN. Just an Op-Ed.

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 04:16 PM
I dont think the B&T 96 is imported into the states, its only available in europe from all the info I can find.
Best I can tell they are not... :banghead:
The 50rd mag capacity is not that big of a downside either
Very true, but ballistics suffer. :cuss:
MP5 clones.....suck......a lot, Same with Vector the ratio good to bad is like the lotto
What about Coharie? I am currently lookin' at one with a "decent" price. I don't think any1 currently manufactures one for US import, but it is "NIB". I have heard good and bad about Coharie (but mostly service not product), and have heard good things about the Bobcat BW5s. Any thoughts on any in particular.

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 04:19 PM
Kriss isn't really an option...it'll eat up too much of the big boy guns budget. :what: And we just can't have that. :evil:

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 04:39 PM
Is the Form 1 for a SBR a federal form (BATF) or local. My local sheriff hates guns? :cuss: :banghead: :cuss:

Gunnerpalace
March 1, 2009, 05:49 PM
You will get info on Forming an LLC in a few minutes. ;)

Gunnerpalace
March 1, 2009, 06:04 PM
According to the Arizona Corporation Commission the CEO of Cohaire Arms is Wendy Bailey

Yeah,Uhhh, from that it is possibly on par with SW.

Gelgoog
March 1, 2009, 06:44 PM
What about Coharie? I am currently lookin' at one with a "decent" price. I don't think any1 currently manufactures one for US import, but it is "NIB". I have heard good and bad about Coharie (but mostly service not product), and have heard good things about the Bobcat BW5s. Any thoughts on any in particular.


Cohaire, special weapons, ect. They are all made by the same guy, and most gunsmiths will refuse to work on them because they are so horribly put together. When you consider that your paying on average 1500 or more for one which usually has bad welding and are jam-o-matics, its just not worth the risk. The only reliable MP5s are the original HKs.

Go with the PS90, Ammo is a little harder to find but to be honest for every good Vector Uzi story there are 3 bad ones,

The USC isn't really worth it unless you decide to do the UMP mod,

MP5 clones.....suck......a lot, Same with Vector the ratio good to bad is like the lotto, Unless you get a HK94 but that may or may not be in your price range.

The PS90 had 50rd mags going for it and some modibility certain all the ones you listed can be modded but it seems a little easier for the FN. Just an Op-Ed.

as far as the PS90 goes, your going to spend upwards of 1400 for it, mags arent cheap and ammo is questionable in performance and runs around the same price as .308 ammo. So while I would love to have one, especially a five-seven pistol, its not really that good of an option.

as for vectors uzi's the quality control is very good (can speak for vector MP5s). But considering the price of them these days, you can virtually get an IMI israeli uzi for the same price, and you can be sure that these are quality builds.

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 06:45 PM
You will get info on Forming an LLC in a few minutes.
Thanks!
Yeah,Uhhh, from that it is possibly on par with SW.
That bad huh...maybe Bobcat BW5?

Also I hate to be "that guy" :fire: but your quote is wrong...
An invention which has been praised and demonized
...it's praised and denounced...hope your not offended; Mav.

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 06:48 PM
paying on average 1500 or more
I found the POS for $1300.00 NIB, guess thats why its cheap. Thanks for the heads up, Gel.

PALMERJ
March 1, 2009, 08:45 PM
Best bet for an MP5 would be to get a HK SP89 SBR it so that you can put a stock and front grip on it. The hardest part would be finding an SP89 that someone was willing to part with, expect to pay 6k or more for it though. If you find a Vector klone and have the time and money you can make them run.

2RCO
March 1, 2009, 09:02 PM
PS90 They're GRRRRRRRREAATTT! Ans they don't have feeding issues.

Gelgoog
March 1, 2009, 09:29 PM
as for bobcat arms, I dont believe todd bailey( the owner of the other companies like cohaire and special weapons...he changes company name often to try and shake off his horrible reputation) owns this company, but bobcat does use his parts. Bobcats are another hit and miss affair. more then likely your still going to get a stinker. Believe me, if I could find a decent MP5 clone then I would have had one long ago.

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 10:05 PM
expect to pay 6k or more for it though
Therein lies the problem...but, thanks for the input and welcome to the forum.
PS90 They're GRRRRRRRREAATTT! Ans they don't have feeding issues.
Yeah, I had a friend that had one...it was fun to shoot, but ugly little bugger and as I found out to my dismay a somewhat anemic round (enough so that I might think twice before grabbing it for personal defense)

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 10:11 PM
What I need is a PS90 with a 20rnd mag of 9mm, .45ACP, .30Carbine, or maybe even .357sig (while somewhat without a place in a pistol it would be seemingly well suited in a small carbine or a SMG) FN: Sign me up if you're listening :D

Maverick223
March 1, 2009, 10:12 PM
Any votes for my new PS357? :D

Pulse
March 1, 2009, 10:45 PM
Any votes for my new PS357?

MP5 in .357SIG?
i am going and order one from B&T.. :P
what a pitty that they dont sell them in to the states, because they are actualy working.

bonedust
March 2, 2009, 01:26 AM
What I need is a PS90 with a 20rnd mag of 9mm, .45ACP, or maybe even .357sig (while somewhat without a place in a pistol it would be seemingly well suited in a small carbine or a SMG) FN: Sign me up if you're listening

they wont feed properly according to FN. there were prototypes made supposedly.

Other: Suppressed KRISS Super-V or bust!

a gun thats not currantly being produced? thats a tough find!

Maverick223
March 2, 2009, 01:28 PM
MP5 in .357SIG?
No...a PS90 in 357 Sig. But i'll take a MP357 to go along with it. :neener:

what a pitty that they dont sell them in to the states
They do...just not the MP5 or the 338 sniper rifle :cuss:

Pulse
March 2, 2009, 01:35 PM
They do...just not the MP5 or the 338 sniper rifle

i think it is odd that DSA sells all parts of the BT96, expect the firearms them self:
http://www.dsarms.com/BT-ButtStocks-and-Flashiders/products/103/

stocks and flashhiders, all there.
did you ask them?
B&T does no longer massproduce the BT96, they are made only by order, thats why they dont show up on homepages probably.

send both, DSA and B&T, a mail, the BT96 is the closest thing you can get the the actual MP5.

Maverick223
March 2, 2009, 02:46 PM
send both, DSA and B&T, a mail
Worth a try...
they are made only by order
Any idea on the cost of the mythical creature?

Pulse
March 2, 2009, 02:51 PM
Any idea on the cost of the mythical creature?

ballpark? ~2.5-2.8k USD

Maverick223
March 2, 2009, 04:02 PM
:eek: Sexy beast, but unfortunately out of my cost range (1.5-2k max) :banghead:

Maverick223
March 3, 2009, 10:29 PM
You will get info on Forming an LLC in a few minutes.

Gunnerpalace, never go the info :uhoh: please resend if you don't mind. I have recently found that the best way to go about getting a SBR is to make one from the pistol version of the carbine (assuming one is available, and most have em'), but I welcome any additional knowledge. A few minutes in what time zone? ;)

TIMC
March 3, 2009, 10:39 PM
I just picked up one of the Action Arms Uzi's and it is sweet. Mine is the SA-45 but also came with the 9mm conversion kit. the gun shoots great. I have had a couple of pistol caliber carbine rifles but I like the Uzi better than any of the others.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/UZIandKahrMK9.jpg?t=1236134311

Maverick223
March 3, 2009, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the reply, and nice lookin' gun (nice Kahr? too). Like the barrel shroud, don't know bout the scope though...that accurate...really? :neener:

TIMC
March 3, 2009, 11:34 PM
The accuracy will supprise you on the closed bolt models. The mount is see through so I can still use the irons too.

Yes the pea shooter is a Kahr MK9 Elite03

Maverick223
March 4, 2009, 09:23 AM
I honestly did not know that the full auto Uzi fired from an open bolt. I guess it helps if the gun is fired after being submerged (prevents trapped water), it's a big problem in Egypt, Jordan, Israel, etc I hear.:D Thanks for the edumacation, gives me something to contemplate.

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