Remington quality falling?


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skeet king
March 1, 2009, 01:43 AM
Is it just me, or has anyne noticed a fall in the quality of the rem 700?
A friend of mine recently bought and traded a new rem 700 because it was throwing huge groups. And now I'm hearing rumors at the gun club of new cheap materials being used to produce the barrel of their rifles.

Is this true? Has anyone here noticed this, or are these just tall tales?

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husker
March 1, 2009, 01:58 AM
i dont no about the 700 but im really happy with the 597- 22. its a way better gun than the old 597 used to be. the mokawk is to old to count, best bolt action carbine iv ever shot. their is a lot of plastic on every thing any more. thats what happens when you send all your textile mills, tool-n-die,ect over seas.put your kids in front of a south bend or Bridgeport not the PS2 and Nintendo

Coal Dragger
March 1, 2009, 01:59 AM
I don't know about the bbl quality of Remington factory bbl's now vs say 15 years ago. The only 700 I have recently fired was a BDL in .300 Win that would shoot softball sized groups at 100yds with just about anything my friend fed it. This rifle was maybe 2-3 years old. For comparison this same friend has a Sako 597 that will stay right around 1-1.5 inches in his hands, and another Sako 75 in .338 Win that is a consistent 1.5 inch rifle for him.

Of course this is one anecdotal 700 BDL that would not shoot up to par. Take it for what its worth (not much). I can tell you, and most will not argue, that the fit and finish of Remington firearms in general have gone way, way, way down hill in the last 5-8 years. A 15 year old 700 BDL or even ADL will have nicely polished metal with nice even bluing, and there won't usually be coarse machining marks left around the ejection port.

Current production 700's of any flavor I have seen recently (like tonight in two different stores) had poor metal finishing, lousy bluing, and no effort made at all to polish out machining marks. Now those rifles could shoot like a house on fire and still be butt ugly, like a Savage, but then again for the asking price..... why not just buy the butt ugly Savage? At least there is an excellent chance the Savage will shoot well.

I can also tell you that the Winchester Model 70, a new South Carolina FN made rifle, shoots pretty well (another 1.5 inch rifle). Much better with the same ammo than the now departed 700 BDL.

Dorkfish
March 1, 2009, 01:59 AM
We've had a lot of 700's coming out lately to the MDC range. Most are ADL models and I have yet to notice or hear anything negative.

Lawman
March 1, 2009, 09:05 AM
I have 5 heavy barrel 700's and all shoot sub MOA. Recently purchased a new 30-06 and this question makes me realize I need to shoot it and compare group size to what my 40+ year old 700 30-06 will do. If it is not as good it will be sold.

LTR shooter
March 1, 2009, 10:21 AM
And now I'm hearing rumors at the gun club of new cheap materials being used to produce the barrel of their rifles.

Is this true? Has anyone here noticed this, or are these just tall tales?


New cheap materials such as what? Aluminum? Plastic? Tree bark? Bought a new SPS Varmint in 2007 and the barrel appears to be made from steel.

Now , while I did not have tests performed to determine steel grade I have tested the performance of the rifle at the range. With match bullet reloads the accuracy has exceeded my expectations on what a mass produced rifle can achieve.

Total of 6 heavy barrel 700s I have owned - 5 have been extremely accurate rifles for me. The sixth? Well , have not fired it yet.:)

Remington bashing is gun forum favorite . Along with Leupold and to a lesser degree Wal Mart bashing.

jaholder1971
March 1, 2009, 10:25 AM
Don't know about 700 rifles, but a good friend recently bought an 870HD only to find the firing pin frozen in the bolt.

Distributor told the dealer he got it from they were out, Remington told them it would be a 6 month wait on either a new one or factory repair.

The distributor offered to foot the bill for a gunsmith of his choice to fix.

Horsemany
March 1, 2009, 10:52 AM
One issue is people are predominantly buying the lower end guns Remington offers because the prices have gone up. SPS's for example don't have the best fit and finish but they're kinda the lower end offering. The last 2 700's I bought were the 2 most accurate 700's I own. Both purchased in the last 12 months. One 700Police in 308 and Sendero SF II in 7mmRM. The 308 is almost a one-holer. The Sendero is almost always under 1/2". Both guns are shot with careful handloads and match grade bullets.

My take....the fit and finish on some models is not what it used to be. They shoot just as good as they ever have. My favorite 700 is the Sendero SF II that they didn't ever used to offer. Remington is good at offering new products to keep things fresh. Had Winchester been more responsive to changes in the shooting community they may still be in business.

plinky
March 1, 2009, 11:03 AM
Over the last 30 years there have been at least 6 M700s in my family (not all mine) of different variations. Haven't noticed any change in out of box accuracy or function. With random factory ammo, I'd say all of them would shoot 5 shots between 1 and 1.5 MOA. Truth be told, that's about all an average mass produced rifle can be expected to do and is fully usable for most hunting. Functionally, I've never had a quality problem and never seen one first hand. Given that there are millions of 700s out there, someone will have a problem and you'll find them on the internet. FWIW, I could name 4 other gunmakers whom I have had quality problems with.

Savage proved 10 or so years ago that there is a market for a cheap rifle that shoots well, no matter what it looks like. I'd say the 700 SPS line is Remington's answer to the Savage. It's a respected design with absolutely no polish and a comparable (often better) price to the Savage.

You can still get a polished Remington with a premium stock but you'll pay. Savage is even rumored to make such rifles but their website indicates that as with Remington, pretty is not free.

If a company is smart, they let the market choose the direction their products will take. I think that is what you're seeing. Current trends are toward performance and value over high gloss finish.

Runningman
March 1, 2009, 11:32 AM
I'm not a big Remington fan these days but I find it hard to believe cheap materials are being used to produce the barrel of their 700. High pressure rifle rounds limit what kind of material and heat treating you can safely get away with.

Pokyman
March 1, 2009, 02:17 PM
My son just purchased a Remington 700 SPS in 17 Fireball. That little rifle will shoot better than either my son or me. Groups around 1/2 inch.

lipadj46
March 1, 2009, 03:09 PM
Remington bashing is gun forum favorite . Along with Leupold and to a lesser degree Wal Mart bashing.

People enjoy pointing out that for the same money you can get a better rifle from other manufacturers. The same goes for Leupold. Remington and Leupold both make very good products but both rely on their name and past performance to charge a premium over other brands for no real benefit to the consumer.

Walmart has contributed more so than any other corporation to the wholesale exporting of US manufacturing.

Handgunner
March 1, 2009, 03:15 PM
I bought a new 870 a few years ago. I will not buy another Remington.

Horsemany
March 1, 2009, 03:25 PM
I shoot more 700's than anything else. I consider them the next best thing to a full custom bench gun. The internet bashing won't last long the way I see it. Remington's last price increase has put them out of reach for many shooters as far as varmint rifles go. A new VS SF II is going from $1100-$1200. Once the majority aren't shooting 700's they'll find something else to gripe about like copper fouling in Savage barrels.

People enjoy pointing out that for the same money you can get a better rifle from other manufacturers. The same goes for Leupold. Remington and Leupold both make very good products but both rely on their name and past performance to charge a premium over other brands for no real benefit to the consumer.

I have to partially disagree with that. Remington has not rested on it's laurels IMO. They continue to offer more models of 700's each year. The different models just this year are dizzying. One thing you can't take away from Remington.....they keep their offerings fresh. They are getting out of hand in price though. As hard as it may be for some to believe I've got heavy barreled 700's that shoot just as good as Savages. Look good too.

ECVMatt
March 1, 2009, 04:27 PM
This seem to come up quite often. I just bought a Remington LTR in .223. It is amazing. It shoots into the same hole with many different loads. I think that rifles are like cars and trucks, if a guy like a certain brand over another they bad mouth the one they don't like. The internet gives them a loud voice.

I am from the camp that is excited that we have all the differnt models and variations to choose from. I love rifles and like to have different types to shoot and play with.

Matt

jester_s1
March 1, 2009, 05:35 PM
I don't see Remingtons as overpriced. If you really use your gun, the Remington holds up well, the trigger can't be beaten by any other factory job when properly adjusted, and they're easy to rebarrel. What other maker gives you as much quality out of the box and in the long run as Remington?

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