How versitle is a .22 LR - really?


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Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 12:28 AM
Lately, ever since seeing a presentation on CCI .22 manufacturing process on The Outdoor Channel, I've had the .22 rifle (and pistol) bug. They are manufacturing .22 LR cartridges with all kinds of versatility and power. So, my question is this: Do you think your ideas and attitudes about the .22 LR have changed along with all the improvements of the cartridges. And, what do you know about the .22 caliber now that you didn't know 10 years ago. And also, do you feel more capable as a hunter and for personal defense with a .22 LR than you used to?

For example: Have any of you used CCIs Segmented Hollowpoint?

CCI Segmented Hollow Point

Product Description

The same performance numbers as Stinger® but loaded with a special segmented bullet. Excellent for medium varmints like rock chucks and woodchucks. (part #0064)

FEATURES & BENEFITS - USAGE

1640 feet/sec—same as Stinger
Special 32 grain segmented hollow point bullet; breaks into
four large pieces on impact
Clean-burning propellants keep actions cleaner
Sure-fire CCI priming
Reusable plastic box with dispenser lid

Look at these two links...

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=0064

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=0074

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Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 12:31 AM
BTW, I'm sure other manufacturers have similar products. What do you use in your .22 and how do they work for killing varmints, game animals and vermin.

PT1911
March 2, 2009, 12:33 AM
personally I like stingers through my 10/22 and my p-22.. it makes it feel like a completely different gun. I actually have to be careful when shooting small game... placement is extremely important as they tend to tear them up... will throw a 10 pound turtle for a loop as well.. I hear the velocitors hit even harder, but I havent personally tried them yet...

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 12:38 AM
I've personally got lots of various .22 LR loads including stingers and velocitors among others. But, I quit hunting with my .22s a long time ago. Now, however, I'm thinking that perhaps I should get back to doing more than just plinking. It may just come in handy for getting stew meat if TSHTF.

husker
March 2, 2009, 12:45 AM
it has to win hands down!! everybody makes the 22 round in every imaginable way you can think of. and cci gots to be at the top i would think. then you go to all the different types of rifles and pistals it never ends. its a great cal for yotes and smaller. As for home defens. lots and lots of people have succumbed to the 22cal. My first choice no. if its all i had. id still sleep just as fine. good thred

jim in Anchorage
March 2, 2009, 12:50 AM
:)Turtles:) I think the real beauty of the 22 is it taught generations of Americans to shoot,rather than being a real"using firearm" Cheap ammo,no recoil,etc.

husker
March 2, 2009, 12:51 AM
i like the cci volocitors 40 grain but the boxes i have dont tell you how many feet per seconds. They are fast. i would like to no whats the fastest 22 long. THANKS gone go get me some.

rangerruck
March 2, 2009, 12:52 AM
Ihave no probs using 22's, I love them. those are decent, but check the cci sgb bullets as well, a segmenting lead chunk, that uses a regular 22lr case. I am not a fan of the stinger case, in a 22 rifle, unless it is a bolt rifle. and the stingers also use lighter bullets, I like a heavier 22. my fave is the massive Aguila sniper sss round, a 60 grain chunk of lead; most rifles can't shoot them, because they keyhole almost instantly, but my old remmy speedmaster loves them.
the best ammo is Aguila in my opinion, which is made by Eley, but much cheaper, try their hi velocity solids and hollow points, amazing accuracy for a hunting round; and the best is their interceptor round, a true 40 grain 22lr round, in a true 22 lr case; but it develops about 1500 fps from the muzzle.
This is simply mind blowing, and i have shot it at a piece of 6x6 wood, explosive out the back side.
another dude did a test ono here recently at 300 yards; a 12 lb turkey wrapped in 3 layers of clothes in the front, and 6 layers of clothes in the back, the 22 rounds penetrated the whole thing.
now then, 22 lrs arent very accurate past 50 yards, and the rest of even the most accurate are dying after 100 yds, and wind plays ping pong with them. But if you are good with them, and know your weapons very well,
as I do, I have 100% confidence in them, for protection, defense, food, and zombie confrontation , if need be.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 12:56 AM
Jim - but look at the ballistics on a Stinger...

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=0050

The bullet is still traveling at 1066 fps with 81 Ft Lbs of energy after 100 yards.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 12:57 AM
husker - try this link...

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/ballistics/rimfire.aspx

husker
March 2, 2009, 01:01 AM
ya i did. pretty impressive. hope i can find some here in omaha tomorrow been looking for a reason to go to the rang

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 01:01 AM
rangerruck - great info and just what I want to know. I bought a Marlin 981T bolt .22 a week ago. I wonder how those .60 gr aguilas would work?

I just bought some Blazer 525 packs of high velocity .40 gr lead round nose. I intend to try them tomorrow.

http://www.blazer-ammo.com/rimfire.aspx

husker
March 2, 2009, 01:08 AM
old ranger no his stuff so does rc model.

Ignition Override
March 2, 2009, 01:11 AM
Would you guys mind the most basic type of .22 question?
My old Savage .22 uses regular 22 LRs.

A friend told me these will not accept any .22 'magnums', or are these still produced? Forgot the correct terminology, and have no idea what is out there, i.e. what Stingers etc really are.

I haven't used these since the 60's and have only become interested in guns since late '07 after not shooting for 23 years. If the longer rounds are not possible, then is there a type of .22 LR ammo has about 20-30% more power than a typical LR (assuming that such are available for a reasonable cost)? This is just for shooting objects at 80-200 feet.

Just an old guy here, trying to use only limited amounts of ammo in the Mini 14, 30 and SKS, yet have more fun with the old Savage .22.

jim in Anchorage
March 2, 2009, 01:15 AM
Big Bill-I stand corrected. impressive numbers for a rimfire. But I can do better with my antique Winchester model 43 218 bee for about the cost of a primer and 11 grains of accurate 1680. I still think a 22,as a using gun,is more usefull to a non- reloader.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 01:17 AM
Ignition - your friend was right. You can't shoot .22 mag from a rifle designed for .22 long rifle ammo.

I think CCI stingers or velocitors or the aguilas that were already mentioned by rangerruck would serve you well.

husker
March 2, 2009, 01:18 AM
a mag 22 is longer than a 22 long rifle dont be confused. go by a box of the ammo were talking about in this thred. 22 long rifle is the most common of the 22s. its what your gun eats.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 01:20 AM
Sorry Jim - I wasn't trying to dis you or anything, but just show how much the old .22 LR has changed. And, you are so right, .22 is a non-reloader's dream.

husker
March 2, 2009, 01:23 AM
what year was the 22 introduced as we no it? i believe some of the first cartridge ammo ever was rim fire

PT1911
March 2, 2009, 01:24 AM
a 22 mag is something completely different.. do not shoot them through a LR.. a stinger is a slightly different cartrige.. it case is just slightly longer than a normal LR.. Some guns.. ie....my 10/22 and p-22 shoot them with no problem and a whole lot of fun, while I have heard that others do not like to feed them. NEVER put 22 mags in 22 LR.. you are playing with a lot more power.. BAD IDEA!!!!

similar to comparing a 30-30 to a 30-06, same caliber, different bullet

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 01:25 AM
The thing I like about my Ruger 10/22 is that one can put out a lot of lead on target in a hurry and with these new loads it could actually be very effective. I can see how a high capacity mag loaded with Stingers or velociters in a Ruger 10/22 could be deadly and safer than a .44 mag in a HD situation (wall penetration wise).

jim in Anchorage
March 2, 2009, 01:42 AM
Big Bill-no offense taken-I think I still resent I wasn't the one to take this high-performance 22 thing to the market-I blew up my Marlin-Glen Field m60 in the early70s puting a 22 short bullet on a LR case-worked good with just the LR powder,but then I got cute and put the short powder in also.Instant two piece stock.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 01:47 AM
I still resent I wasn't the one to take this high-performance 22 thing to the market...You'd be wealthy by now! ZOWIE - something to think about!

jim in Anchorage
March 2, 2009, 01:58 AM
Like I don't? All I have to show for it is a busted K-mart 22. Next time will be diff. Right.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 02:16 AM
Amen Bro...

Bearhands
March 2, 2009, 07:27 AM
Very good and interesting thread Big Bill...thanks for starting it. For TONS of great information on 22's.... visit www.rimfirecentral.com . I use a lot of different 22's for different puposes. Mainly using the slower velocity types for target shooting. Try any of the subsonics or even standard velocity ammo and you'll be amazed @ the accuracy you can develop. The Velocitors, Stinger and Hypervelocity types are great fun too. Each type of ammo has it's favorite gun and vice versa. Grab a few different types of ammo, head to the range and see how much fun you can have. As far as Versatile....... oh my yes.

Picher
March 2, 2009, 11:04 AM
I've used many different kinds of .22LR ammo and found that each rifle may like different ammo. Some of mine don't like the batch of Velocitor I tried, but love an older batch of CCI SGB. Newer batches haven't been as good in my rifles.

Even the best quality match ammo can vary from batch to batch. Eley is quite variable, but when it's just right for a benchrest rifle, it's about the best accuracy. It seems that just when I find the Eley ammo my rifle likes, I can't get that batch anymore, so I use something else that seems to be more consistent, but not necessarily as accurate.

Regarding optimum accuracy in your rifle, try several brands and when you find the ammo it shoots better than any other (of that type), buy as much of that particular batch as you can afford. I mean CASES of the stuff. That applies to high-speed hunting ammo, match ammo, or even plinking ammo.

Picher

CZguy
March 2, 2009, 12:34 PM
Regarding optimum accuracy in your rifle, try several brands and when you find the ammo it shoots better than any other (of that type), buy as much of that particular batch as you can afford. I mean CASES of the stuff. That applies to high-speed hunting ammo, match ammo, or even plinking ammo.

Absolutely correct, good advice.

Ratshooter
March 2, 2009, 12:38 PM
The 22 seems to be an ongoing design project with no end in sight. You can get rounds that are as slow as 350fps to as fast as 1800fps. I think it is the most useful round you can own. Not the best, but one that will be used more than any other. No home or farm/ranch collection is complete without at least one 22 rifle.

One poster mentioned the guy that shot the turkey at 300 yards. The shooter that did this did it in high winds. Like 20-25mph IIRC. The same poster then says the round is good to 50 yards and almost dead at a 100 yards. So its good for 300 but "dying" at a 100? That makes no sense to me.

I have shot my 22s out to 200 yards and beyond and you do not want to be shot at by me or any other shooter that knows his rifle at that range. I think they are best used at 75 yards and under for hunting but good shooting at paper can be done at much longer ranges. The best sight for 22 info is www.rimfirecentral.com

woodchuck315
March 2, 2009, 01:59 PM
The 22 seems to be an ongoing design project with no end in sight. You can get rounds that are as slow as 350fps to as fast as 1800fps. I think it is the most useful round you can own. Not the best, but one that will be used more than any other. No home or farm/ranch collection is complete without at least one 22 rifle.

One poster mentioned the guy that shot the turkey at 300 yards. The shooter that did this did it in high winds. Like 20-25mph IIRC. The same poster then says the round is good to 50 yards and almost dead at a 100 yards. So its good for 300 but "dying" at a 100? That makes no sense to me.

I have shot my 22s out to 200 yards and beyond and you do not want to be shot at by me or any other shooter that knows his rifle at that range. I think they are best used at 75 yards and under for hunting but good shooting at paper can be done at much longer ranges. The best sight for 22 info is www.rimfirecentral.com

I agree!

As a rimfirecentral member for the past 5+ years, The guys n gals over there are THE guys n gals to ask about ANYTHING rimfire. If they cant help ya, they will point you in the right direction, as well.

I currently have more .22lr guns and ammo than anything else. Cheaper. And, if the SHTF, I can at least feed myself with small game, and with careful shots, medium game...But Id use my bow for deer and up...

for extremely recoil sensitive people, a .22lr pistol can dump 10 rounds accurately in very very short time, as there is very negligible muzzle jump, compared to even .25ap, yes ive shot a .25acp, and .22lr has about the same energy, with HP ammo readily available.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 02:03 PM
Thanks for the great tips guys/ladies. I've been going through all my .22 ammo this morning and am surprised at the variety and quality I have amassed. I'm going to be shooing and hunting much more with my good ol' 22s. BTW, I've got a Henry lever .22 on lay-away right now.

61chalk
March 2, 2009, 02:21 PM
I just got back into .22 shooting, wow...been awhile, I use to buy
CCI for a dollar for a hundred!
Back in to mid 70's, I put up 3 of
those real thick Sears catologs, each one about 3 in. thick an shot different .22 ammo....the worst was Remington, winchester wildcat wasn't bad, but by far the deepest
penatration, an biggest hole was those cheaper CCI.....what, now they are like $7.50 for a box 50, or 100...? ..I bought wal-mart federal, 525 rds. for like 17.00, sure wish I had stocked up on those cheap CCI a long time ago, ...

JImbothefiveth
March 2, 2009, 02:31 PM
And also, do you feel more capable as a hunter and for personal defense with a .22 LR than you used to?
Never hunted with a .22, but I actually feel less confident about using them for self-defense, having read about the FBI guidelines.

C-grunt
March 2, 2009, 02:52 PM
Jimbo.... The .22 will actually meet the FBI standards many times. The problem is its a small bullet, not the lack of penetration. Ive seen a drug dealer have a through and through head shot from a .22 pistol. Round hit the bridge of the nose and exited his just front of his left ear. It then cut a nice groove out of his shoulder. The guy did survive though.

husker
March 2, 2009, 02:55 PM
me to Bill. i just traded some live steam stuff to a buddy in Missouri for a Henry youth lever action for my little girls first gun. brand new in the box. cant wait tell it gets hear and i surprise her with it

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 03:22 PM
husker - good deal! Girls need to know how to shoot. Good luck with your teaching sessions with her.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 06:18 PM
I just got a deal on CCI Velocitor, Stinger and Mini Mag cartridges. My gun dealer was all sold out of the cheaper stuff and had a good supply of the CCIs, so I bought them all. He was just going to slap a price hike on them but told me he'd let me have them all for the old price.

On the box it says the stingers travel at 1640 FPS. That's fast for a 32gr hollow point bullet! Is anyone having problems getting good .22 ammo?

husker
March 2, 2009, 06:20 PM
awsome

Mike U.
March 2, 2009, 06:22 PM
everybody makes the 22 round in every imaginable way you can think of. and cci gots to be at the top i would think.

Actually, the folks who precision shoot for competition use Eley, SK, Lapua and the other top tier manufacturer's offerings.
CCI is really good, but is not really near the top.

the best ammo is Aguila in my opinion, which is made by Eley, but much cheaper, try their hi velocity solids and hollow points, amazing accuracy for a hunting round; and the best is their interceptor round, a true 40 grain 22lr round, in a true 22 lr case; but it develops about 1500 fps from the muzzle.
This is simply mind blowing, and i have shot it at a piece of 6x6 wood, explosive out the back side.
another dude did a test ono here recently at 300 yards; a 12 lb turkey wrapped in 3 layers of clothes in the front, and 6 layers of clothes in the back, the 22 rounds penetrated the whole thing.
now then, 22 lrs arent very accurate past 50 yards, and the rest of even the most accurate are dying after 100 yds, and wind plays ping pong with them. But if you are good with them, and know your weapons very well,
as I do, I have 100% confidence in them, for protection, defense, food, and zombie confrontation , if need be.

This post has several inaccuracies.

Eley is manufactured in Great Britain and owned by Tenex, IIRC.
Aguila is manufactured in Mexico by Industrias Tecnos.
Two independently owned manufacturers from what I gather.

.22's are in their element from the 0-100 yard range. Many like to keep it under 75 yards, but, that's their self imposed limitation, not the round's.

In addition to the contradictions in the post which were pointed out in Ratshooter's post. May I politely suggest a little proof reading prior to hitting that "Submit Reply" button?:neener::D


Husker,
I believe you were wondering about velocity for the Velocitor?
My box states 1435 FPS.

I believe the .22 LR is possibly the most versatile round in current production.
Inherently accurate cartridge.
Enough versatility to kill anything from a mouse to a full size steer*.
Incredible amount of loadings available and quite possibly the most popular round in the entire world. I imagine that pretty much anywhere you go, you'll be able to find .22 LR for sale.
Except, of course, those very draconian countries whose rulers forbid the ownership and use of firearms with the exception of their own government thugs, err, I mean officials.:scrutiny:





*I've read where the .22 LR was used in the past to dispatch beef cows prior to processing.:what: Kind of hard to argue with that not adding to the .22's versatility.

Daizee
March 2, 2009, 06:35 PM
[quote]but then I got cute and put the short powder in also.Instant two piece stock.[quote]

extra-fast powder in a vastly reduced volume PLUS the .22LR powder. *ouch*. What you needed was a *slower* powder.

Velocitors clock over 1400fps from my 20.5" CZ, measured.
At 24" they're actually slower. Impressive either way, with a full-weight 40gr bullet. They shoot well too.

-Daizee

husker
March 2, 2009, 06:39 PM
i personally shot a cow with marlin 60. it had a bum leg so we feed it corn till the time came. now the end of the barrel was maybe a foot from its head but it dropped the cow and that was that. also i hear the Agulira has quite the wallop. now on the other hand i shot a coon years ago in the head and i no it didnt do anything but brake the skin. he hoped into another tree were i had a full body to look at and i gave him a good Brod side. and down he came. this was back in the early 80s

alemonkey
March 2, 2009, 06:52 PM
Your coon story reminds me of my coon hunting days. Back when I was a kid we used to hunt them almost every night in the winter. I once shot one out of a tree with my 10/22, and when he hit the ground he was MAD. He landed about 10 feet in front of me and decided to come after me. A whack from a baseball bat finished him :)

Blakenzy
March 2, 2009, 06:54 PM
oops please delete

alemonkey
March 2, 2009, 06:54 PM
Speaking of good quality .22 ammo, I've had incredibly good luck with Federal bulk pack stuff. Both my .22's (bull barrel 10/22 and Stevens Favorite) shoot it very well. I've put 5 shots in one hole at 25 yards many times with the Stevens, using that ammo.

It's definitely not in the same league with match stuff, but for the price I'm a big fan of it.

husker
March 2, 2009, 07:00 PM
thats so funny. if i could speak raccoon. i no this one was a cussing me. it was a pissed coon no 2 ways abought it. i seen its head jerk like someone through a jab at it. i was in shock the dam thing stood in the tree chatteren away at me for 10 seconds before it got stupid and moved to were i really could see all of him. i was about 15-16 years old

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 07:21 PM
husker - did you pee your pants? :D

Travlin
March 2, 2009, 07:48 PM
I have a friend who is a dairy farmer. When a cow has to be killed he uses a .22 pistol to the head. This is a large animal, maybe up to 1,000 pounds. One shot does it. It just goes to show that shot placement is key.

Ratshooter
March 2, 2009, 08:50 PM
Hello Mike U I took tour advice and went back and looked at the post again and I am not sure what I missed. Feel free to help me out. I am not easily offended and welcome any help you have.

another dude did a test ono here recently at 300 yards; a 12 lb turkey wrapped in 3 layers of clothes in the front, and 6 layers of clothes in the back, the 22 rounds penetrated the whole thing.
now then, 22 lrs arent very accurate past 50 yards, and the rest of even the most accurate are dying after 100 yds, and wind plays ping pong with them. But if you are good with them, and know your weapons very well,
as I do, I have 100% confidence in them, for protection, defense, food, and zombie confrontation , if need be.

Now here he says that "22lrs arent very accurate past 50 yards". Yet the tester hit a 12lb turkey at 300 yards in high winds. I remember the thread. I thought the shooter did a heck of a job hitting something the size of a 3 gallon bucket at 300 yards.

There are many threads here and on RFC with posted groups under an inch at 100 yards. I have went back and reread what I wrote in my first post and see no errors. If there is something I am missing please let me know.

rangerruck
March 2, 2009, 08:50 PM
Eley, is Aguila, is Golden Eagle, IS remmy orange box, IS remmy yellow box, IS remmy 17mach 2. All of it is eley, period, Tenex IS THE NAME of their most popular 22lr target round. Which has now been supplanted by Tenex/ultimate EPS, and MATCH EPS, accuracy wise, generally speaking. Eley , all of them , is made on eley equipment, eley supplies, to eley standards, just put together in diff places. Aguila is in Mexico, and golden eagle is in America. the remmy's mentioned above, are also made in England, in the eley black boxes which are typical, they just slap on a remmy label. Eley is owned by Eley, ltd, co. It is a family name.
The 22 is the first self contained metallic cart., origionally called the Flobert cb 6mm, which you can still get by the way, a couple of companies still make it. I think it came out in 1853,
in France , and then either Smith or Colt came out with it next, the following year.
that info for husker...

When i say a 22 is dying after 100 yds, even though I mentioned the 300 yd turkey shot, you gotta read between the lines; let me further explain. The 22lr round is highly unique for a few reasons, I won't explain it in detail, but the caliber size, combined, with it's initial slow speed, certain atmospheric, and ballistic things happen to the 22lr , that happen to no other caliber, or bullet out there. So after 100 yds, the drop, wind, speed, atmoshperics really start playing hell with the 22lr round. And keeping them on a paper target , get's really difficult , very fast, after 100 yds. The dude had to take a lot of shots, to get on that turkey, and had to face directly into, or away from the wind, to get it right, IIRW.

As for the Aguila 60sss, I don't know why it shoots in my bbl; it will shoot in all the old remmy 22's of the speedmaster/fieldmaster/pumpmaster/scoremaster bbls. normally , if you think about shooting a 223, there is no way in hell's bathroom , that a 1/16 twist bbl , would stabilize a 60 grain pill, but for some reason , these bbls will.
I don't know if it has to do with the famous 'floating chamber' design of the old remmy's or something diff about the land/groove dimensions, or maybe these bbls, on those rifles, are not a 1/16 twist. Normally , you would have to get a special made bbl, for a 22, with a 1/12 twist, to get them to work.
I have gotten them to work decent from a marlin 981, and various 81's, but they would still keyhole, or be MMMAAAAAAYYYBEE hunting accurate, usually not; the twist just isn't fast enough. Though the microgroove bbl, seems to be working overtime to stabilize those bigboys.

I don't normally talk back to anyone on here, but maybe you should check your own headfacts, before hitting Enter, Mike U. Maybe read between the lines a little bit, maybe read some of my past posts. I'll go out on a limb here, even though I don't know you, and haven't checked on your pasts posts;(" mmm, that's good irony!") I have forgotten more about the mfgr, of eley ammo, in their england plant, and forgotten the 35 sections/headings of recommendations, from their Engineers, on how to possibly make their ammo even more accurate, than you know about 22 ammo; interior ballistics, exterior ballistics, liquid/molten dynamics, basic trajectories, supersonic atmospherics, and subsonic atmospherics, than you will ever know about 22 ammo , ever.
I was just trying to give the questioner some quick hit info , for reference, to help him answer his questions.
I said nothing wrong, or innacurate in my post, and stand behind it. you CAN hit targets in a high wind, at 300, you CAN penetrate turkeys and layers of clothes. Also , even the most accurate rifle, well zero'd at 100 yds, will be off paper 50 yds later, in a high wind or bad weather; from the drop alone, typically it will be over 20 inches at 200 yds, and that is in calm wind and temps, or just any plain ol' calm day.
Yet I finished my post by saying , if you know your 22 stuff, and have confidence in them, as I do, you can do plenty of good with them, from feeding yourself with them, to stopping the zombie hords. Like most of the info I give out here, I do try to be as correct as possible, without sounding mondo technical or anal about it, and if I try to remember info from a book or another reliable person or source, I try to paraphrase, without making it my own, and not take credit, but i still try to get it 100% right, without giving out every exact word, or nuanced detail.

Lighten up , smart guy.

First dude, I hoped I helped to answer your questions.

Ratshooter
March 2, 2009, 09:10 PM
Hello RangerRuck. I admit I am not real good about reading "Between the lines". I pretty much take what you write at face value. I am also very familiar with the strange ballistics of the 22 round and the turbulence envelope it operates in.

I don't remember how many shots the guy took to hit the turkey but if he took a lot I don't doubt it at all. Three hundred yards is a long way for that round.

I don't know why your Remmy shoots the 60gr rounds. My rem 572 pump doesn't. I did buy a 1/9 twist barrel for my 10-22 just to shoot these rounds and have never tried it out. For what I paid for the barrel I sure hope it works. I paid more for the barrel than for the whole friggen gun. I do wish I could find a 1/9 twist for my 77/22.

rangerruck
March 2, 2009, 09:33 PM
Ratshoot, don't give up on that pump yet. Clean it, and pay special attention to the chamber, and bolt face, then give it another go.

And I gotta say, WOW!!!! a 1/9 twist 22 bbl? how much did you pay for that?
that is amazing, i would be big time interested to know, not only how it works with the Aggies, but with your other fave 22 ammo as well...

Call up Chase Mountain custom, Whistle pig, Lilja, or Shilen about a 77/22 bbl. I am sure they do it, but the cost , especially on a Lilja/shilen version, is gonna be over 200 for sure.

Ratshooter
March 2, 2009, 10:04 PM
Hey RangerRuck the 572 is squeaky clean. It just don't "cotton" to that bullet weight. It has a 1/16 twist. I e-mailed remington and ask.

If I remember right I paid around $150 for the barrel. I bought it from Tactical Innovations. They advertise and have a link on the RFC site. Its a nice looking piece of work that is also threaded for a suppressor. I believe I could have the shoulder turned off and it will fit the 77/22. Then I can buy a spacer and make it fit a 10/22. I don't think I will do that.

Before I do anything I will mount it on my 10/22 and test fire it. I have tested the 60gr bullets verses the 40gr bullets for penetration in my garage. In something like telephone books the 60gr really digs deep. On folded sheets of lead that I have the 60gr barely beats a good 40gr HV load for penetration.

I have shot the 60gr loads for years. They always disappointed with the loopy trajectery that they have. For up close stuff if they hit point first they are a super round. If they tumble and hit where you want they still do pretty good.

I have pretty much decided that the 36-40gr loads are the best. Thats funny because thats what the designers of the round thought also.

husker
March 2, 2009, 10:13 PM
no Bill i didnt piss my pants. i had i think was a savage over and under 22--410 i was to stunned and to busy trying to reload to pea. their tough little hombres some times. iv found the 17 hrm will scramble their brains every time with out fail. you have to use rim fire at night. so back then their wasnt a lot to chose from.

Big Bill
March 2, 2009, 11:08 PM
i was to stunned and to busy trying to reload to pee.Now, that's funny!

rangerruck
March 2, 2009, 11:56 PM
ratshooter; on the lead penetration sheets, were those 40 hv's copper coated, or lead solids? wondering if the copper coating didn't help get through a few layers first, since the fast moving
copper would be a bit slippery, even more so if wax or such coated...

JImbothefiveth
March 3, 2009, 07:46 AM
Enough versatility to kill anything from a mouse to a full size steer*.
I think it's worth noting that this is at contact distance, and I'd imagine it's in a cage, but not sure about that.

Ratshooter
March 3, 2009, 02:23 PM
RangerRuck the 40gr bullets are copper coated. It doesn't help at all with pentration. The lead sheets are folded over and hammered down so they are almost solid. Both 40-60 gr loads go in about 1/2" and stop. They flatten out as soon as they hit. They do bulge the back of the lead sheet.

I was surprised the first time I fired them. I put up several layers of lead plus a 2"x8" piece of yellow pine for a backstop. The extra was not needed.

Red Tornado
March 3, 2009, 04:22 PM
Rangerruck,
To what distance have you been able to get the 60gr so stabilize? Are they still stable at 100 yards or beyond?

I've been itching to try them, and they'll be shot out of Remington's most likely. I think the long barrel may have something to do with the stabilization. From what I've read, the 24-26" barrels do better than shorter barrels. I'm apprehensive they won't work from my BB (18"), but I'm hopeful they'll be fine in my 513T. The reason I ask is that I'm planning a prairie dog hunt this summer and am working on multiple ~100 yard guns and would like the energy retention of the 60 grainers.
Thanks
RT

SwampWolf
March 3, 2009, 06:53 PM
The higher the prices get and the emptier the shelves get for conventional centerfire ammunition, the more popular .22 rimfire is going to be. About time!

Mike U.
March 3, 2009, 07:36 PM
rangerruck,

You are correct about Eley and Tenex and I was wrong.
I was going off of memory, which in my case is faaar from 100%. (Even on my best days.) That was why I put in the "IIRC" at the end of the statement.
I apologize for that incorrect statement.

Eley, is Aguila, is Golden Eagle, IS remmy orange box, IS remmy yellow box, IS remmy 17mach 2. All of it is eley, period, Tenex IS THE NAME of their most popular 22lr target round. Which has now been supplanted by Tenex/ultimate EPS, and MATCH EPS, accuracy wise, generally speaking. Eley , all of them , is made on eley equipment, eley supplies, to eley standards, just put together in diff places. Aguila is in Mexico, and golden eagle is in America. the remmy's mentioned above, are also made in England, in the eley black boxes which are typical, they just slap on a remmy label.

Now I see the Eley/Aguila connection. Thank you for clarifying as I could not find that connection on Eley's site.

When I read your post, and I did (at least 8 times), I couldn't seem to get past where you were talking about the guy shooting the cloth wrapped turkey at 300 yards and then following it by stating the .22 isn't accurate past 50 yards. Reading between the lines is not something I do well. Sometimes, I have a difficult time following a person's train of thought in written form. It seems to be the case here as now I understand since you clarified it for me in post #49. Thank you.


I have forgotten more about the mfgr, of eley ammo, in their england plant, and forgotten the 35 sections/headings of recommendations, from their Engineers, on how to possibly make their ammo even more accurate, than you know about 22 ammo; interior ballistics, exterior ballistics, liquid/molten dynamics, basic trajectories, supersonic atmospherics, and subsonic atmospherics, than you will ever know about 22 ammo , ever.

This chest beating was useless. :rolleyes: You were making your points perfectly fine without it. But, if it makes you feel better...


I was just trying to give the questioner some quick hit info , for reference, to help him answer his questions.
I said nothing wrong, or innacurate in my post, and stand behind it.

I can appreciate that.

Chest beating aside, thank you for taking the time to clear things up for me.

"I can see clearly now!" said the blind man.

krs
March 3, 2009, 08:11 PM
I have aguilla "SuperExtra", Hecho en Mexico that has a bubble on the box indicating "Eley Prime". It's one of the 40 gr. long rifle that CMP sells by the case of 5000.

Good stuff, accurate in both of my S&W M41 pistols and the only .22 rifle I have and have tried it in that doesn't do it's best shooting it is my U.S. Springfield Armory M2. It likes old Federal Champion better.

rangerruck
March 4, 2009, 06:40 PM
Well, the speedmaster has a 22 inch bb, so I could not tell you at all if longer is any better on the aggie sss's. I have not tried it at 100 yds, this is going to take a little work; I have a smallish scope on it, so I may have to Kentucky windage it, but I should still be able to tell you if it keyholes. I may get out to the range this weekend to check it out. I know at 50 m, it is still a straight shot.

rangerruck
March 4, 2009, 06:42 PM
I am a huge fan of the super extra aggies as well, both hi speeds , in both solid and hollow point, are not only 40 grainers, but are the fastest non hypervelocities, and yet they are also some of the most accurate rounds I shoot, usually no matter what rifle I try them from, they end up in the top 10.

SwampWolf
March 4, 2009, 06:45 PM
This chest beating was useless. You were making your points perfectly fine without it. But, if it makes you feel better...

I guess! I think his chest will be bruised for a month. :)

Palehorseman
March 4, 2009, 11:47 PM
["I just bought some Blazer 525 packs of high velocity .40 gr lead round nose. I intend to try them tomorrow."]


Big Bill, post your thoughts and results, just bought 3 bulk boxes of the same. Wife was low on .22, (down to just over 1,000) couldn't find them even at Wally World around here, except at outrageous prices.

Was bit leery ordering from online sight unseen, but price was right, half way expected aluminum cases with the Blazer, but nice looking .22's with brass cases. Haven't tried yet, but will shortly, if they work out OK, will order out several more boxes of the 525 bulk.

Big Bill
March 5, 2009, 01:14 AM
If you want to see the info on the turkey test at 300 yards, click the link below... I highly recommend it!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

husker
March 5, 2009, 01:26 AM
i think i made a mistake when i bought my moss 835 ultra turkey 12 gauge. i should of just bought $400 worth of 22s. gobble gobble

Red Tornado
March 5, 2009, 10:21 AM
Thanks RR,
I'm going to a gun show next weekend and I'll look for some of the SSS. Hopefully I can grab a few boxes and do some testing. I'm also going to test some hypervelocities, but I've never had good accuracy from any of them. I haven't done real testing though.

Does anybody get consistently better accuracy between Stingers, Vipers, Game Shock, Interceptors, etc? Any other hypers I should look at?
RT

mr.trooper
March 5, 2009, 11:23 AM
i think .22 is the most versatile cartridge.

you have loads as low as a 29gr bullet at 700fps (CCI CB) and as high as a 40gr bullet at over 1,400 fps.

40gr Velocitors have MORE energy at 100 yards than the standard 40gr loads have at the MUZZLE.

Tell me what animal you couldn't drop with a point blank shot from a .22 rifle? It would have to be a big one. Anything the size of a cow or smaller would drop in its tracks from a point blank head shot. I KNOW this for a FACT, because that how me and grandpa used to slaughter hogs and cattle.

Modern loads like Velocitors have the energy to do this out to 100 yards. Even from a 3" handgun barrel, these loads will penetrate OVER the FBI 12" of ballistic gel standard.

Now days, the .22LR is a COMPLETELY different animal than the cartridge we all grew up with. A lot of us are still stuck in the 1950s view of the 22, and thats a hard thing to shake off when its served you well for so many years. :)

AllAmerican
March 5, 2009, 04:14 PM
The answer to the OP is: Very!

You can hunt with it for sure and for the naysayers....

I will ruin your freakin day with a .22. Simple as that. It is a required caliber IMO. Every family should have one for every member in the home.

servantofinari
March 5, 2009, 07:53 PM
a good .22LR in a good gun, in the hands of a good shot can bring down anythign at 100meters, provided you hit the head.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 5, 2009, 08:53 PM
It's extremely versatile, really. More powerful and versatile than the vast majority of gun owners realize. An Aguila SSS to the ear could easily drop a moose. It would also dispatch a squirrel quite well.

AKElroy
March 6, 2009, 12:11 AM
If I were forced to take just one gun for survival, it would be a .22lr. My back yard can feed me with a .22, without disturbing the neighbors, and without running out of ammo.

rangerruck
March 7, 2009, 12:59 PM
Well, it was a modicum of chest beating; no bruises, I only needed to use chopsticks, for proper tuning. There are dudes who know more about 22 ammo, and testing, and penetration, etc., than I will know in 2 lifetimes; a couple of dudes over on rimfirecentral would for sure. Also, proly Steve Boelter; if you get a chance, pick up a book he wrote about 2 years ago , I think called the complete history of rimfire ammo. Except for just 1 or two carts made in the last 2 years, his book covers pretty much all 22 / rimfire ammo ever made.

Big Bill
March 7, 2009, 04:01 PM
RR - thanks for the tip about Boelter's book. I think I'll check it out.

Matrix187
March 7, 2009, 04:08 PM
My grandpa killed deer back before world war II with a .22 LR. RIght in the head... He knew there were better calibers out there for the job, but thats all he had.

CSA 357
March 7, 2009, 06:26 PM
In a tight the 22 rf could be a do all gun, and the ammo is still fairly cheap, i like shorts and cb caps, my 39a feeds them so good!

nachosgrande
March 7, 2009, 06:58 PM
I've held off an entire platoon of Cambodian guerrillas from a ditch with a broken leg with a Ruger 10/22. All kidding aside it's a brilliant caliber, but I think some people romanticize about it's realistic killing power. Way too inappropriate for deer.

goon
March 8, 2009, 01:18 AM
Not really any change.
My great uncle helped feed his and other families with a .22LR during the great depression. He killed 101 deer with his, with 99 of them shot between the eyes. It's not a powerhouse but don't pretend it isn't capable of feeding you. If it isn't, it's because you're doing something wrong.
Get close and aim for CNS.

Redneck with a 40
March 8, 2009, 10:32 AM
I much prefer the 22 mag, out of a rifle, it has twice the power at 100 yards. The extra cost is worth it to me, as I only shoot 100 rounds/month. I do have a Ruger 22/45, which is a joy to shoot and provides hours of cheap shooting fun. I just like the downrange power of the 22 mag.:)

mr.trooper
March 8, 2009, 10:48 AM
All kidding aside it's a brilliant caliber, but I think some people romanticize about it's realistic killing power. Way too inappropriate for deer.

If your hunting from a tree stand and taking 100 yard shoulder shots like a good little boy, then yes.

But if your starving and you stalk or ambush within 50 yards and take head shots, then no. Same goes for point blank shots on snared animals. ;)

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