Unsupported Chambers


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steve4102
March 2, 2009, 10:19 PM
I have an EAA Witness Elite in 10MM that is bulging the heck out of my brass.

Is the EAA Elite Witness an unsupported chamber like the Glock? Is it safe to resize this bulged brass from my Witness and load em up?

Thanks

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Steve C
March 2, 2009, 11:14 PM
Take the barrel out, drop in a round and take a look at how well ists supported by surrounding metal of the the chamber. Show us a picture if you can. Here is a pic I pirated from another post found with Google of examples of chambers of different .40 cal pistols.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/Powder_Burn/SupportedandNonSupportedChambers.jpg

If you are shooting handloads maybe you need to back off a bit.

1911Tuner
March 2, 2009, 11:45 PM
Take the barrel out, drop in a round and take a look at how well ists supported by surrounding metal of the the chamber.

While that can alert you to an obvious problem, it isn't a reliable indicator because it doesn't tell the whole story. Headspace must be taken into account. The round can drop deep enough into a barrel chamber to show acceptable head support...but if the headspace is excessive...turns into a whole 'nother ball of wax when the round fires and backs out of the chamber.

gglass
March 3, 2009, 12:34 PM
+1 for 1911Tuner's explanation... Good job.

1911Tuner
March 3, 2009, 12:40 PM
As an additional possibility...

If the gun is a straight blowback design, it's also a possibility that the breech is opening too early, while the pressure is still on. Since blowback actions depend on bolt or slide mass and spring strength to delay, or time the opening...it's likely a badly worn/weakened action/recoil spring that's causing the problem.

atblis
March 3, 2009, 03:11 PM
10mm Witness stuff is popular today.

I don't know if the Elite is different, but in general the Witness 10mms support the brass very well and do not have a bulging issue. Many people have run some nuklar 10mm loads through them with out the bulging issue you describe.

Sounds like something is wrong with it.

sqlbullet
March 3, 2009, 03:21 PM
I have two Witness pistols (standard and Elite Match), and a shooting buddy a third (standard). All are 10mm.

You have a problem. Never seen bulging brass from any of these three guns, and this is the first I have read about a Witness bulging the case.

What ammo were you using (factory or reloads? Recipe?)? Which Elite series gun do you have (Match, Stock, Limited?)?

As far as re-using the brass...until you find out what is causing the bulge, I would not re-use it. After that is tracked down and eliminated, I would still limit re-use to very light loads.

steve4102
March 3, 2009, 05:46 PM
What ammo were you using (factory or reloads? Recipe?)?

The one in the picture was handloaded.
Once fired FC Brass
180gr Hornady HP
7.8gr Ramshot Silhouette (Ramshot data, 7.5 to 8.4gr)
CCI LP Primer
OAL 1.260
Velocity 1,120 Avg.


Which Elite series gun do you have (Match, Stock, Limited?)?

Witness Elite Match.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DSCN0485-1.jpg

SsevenN
March 3, 2009, 05:48 PM
I would make sure the case flare isn't too aggressive(read wide).

When I first started to reload I had some bulging caused by that.

steve4102
March 3, 2009, 06:27 PM
Pictures of my bulged brass. I know they suck, but here they are anyway.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DSCN0475.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DSCN0476.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DSCN0477.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DSCN0480.jpg

1911Tuner
March 3, 2009, 07:33 PM
You've got a headspace problem, m'fren. Don't shoot the gun any more until it's corrected.

The bulge is at the bottom of the brass. If it fails...which is a distinct possibility with an intense cartridge like the 10mm...and it blows brass shards and hot gasses down into the magazine...sympathetic detonation of the other rounds is a good possibility.

Have it fixed. The fingers and eyes that you save will probably be your own.

JonB
March 3, 2009, 10:00 PM
Somethin' wrong there. I shoot 10mm in a Glock 20 and have never had case bulge issues (I reload for 10mm too). Glocks are supposedly more common for cases bulges than other brands.

steve4102
March 3, 2009, 11:06 PM
You've got a headspace problem, m'fren. Don't shoot the gun any more until it's corrected.

Thanks, I'll send it back to EAA for repairs.

steve4102
March 4, 2009, 08:02 AM
What causes Primer Wipe? MY EAA 10mm not only is bulging the cases with medium loads, upon closer inspection I found out that I am getting Primer Wipe as well.

1911Tuner
March 4, 2009, 08:09 AM
Most of the time, primer wipe...or the "Tadpole Tail" is caused by a weak firing pin spring. It can also come as a result of incorrect barrel drop timing...too early...which can also cause your bulged cases.

Check the front corner of the locking lug(s) to see if there's any evidence of radiusing. The corner should be square and sharp.

atblis
March 4, 2009, 10:17 AM
Tanfoglios seem to always do the primer swipe thing. Even with an increased firing pin spring, mine always still did it.

steve4102
March 4, 2009, 10:11 PM
Thanks everyone.. I boxed it up and it goes back to EAA tomorrow. I will let you know how it turns out.

Thanks
Steve

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