PMC ammo is not American made.


PDA






Tyrannosaurus
March 3, 2009, 01:05 AM
I'm not sure if some of this is common knowledge or not, so forgive me if it is.

I've purchased a lot of PMC ammo through the years, and I've been very happy with it. From my experience, it is very uniform and clean ammunition.

I've been doing some web searching to hopefully find some significant ammo sales, and I stumbled upon PMC's corporate site.

In 2007, they joined up with a Korean company in order to increase production. They explain it here:

http://www.pmcammo.com/about.html

On another side of the coin in this day of outsourcing, this company is openly admitting that they are expanding to S.Korea to increase production, and I suspect that other ammo producers aren't so forthright. This got me thinking, and I started researching some American companies to find out.

I've fired quite a bit of American Eagle ammo through my gun as well. I've always understood that this was a product of Federal Ammunition.

Although I found a Federal Premium Ammunition site, it laid no claims to American Eagle ammo. Maybe I'm not an internet search expert, but I couldn't find the producer of American Eagle anywhere.

I looked at the Winchester site. I did not find anything in their corporate information that stated that their products were American made.
http://www.winchester.com/

I also looked at the Remington website. There is no statement that their products are American made.
http://www.remington.com/

I might be totally wrong here-maybe these American companies just didn't think it was prudent or worthwhile to mention that all of their products were made in the US by American workers. Or maybe they're farming it out like everyone else.

I just thought I'd point this out to those like myself who prefer to purchase American made products.

If I'm totally wrong on this, please let me know. If some of these companies are keeping their production in the US, I would be really happy to hear it.

If you enjoyed reading about "PMC ammo is not American made." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
gazpacho
March 3, 2009, 01:17 AM
Some of PMC ammo, at least, is made in Boulder City, NV. I've seen the factory there.

Federal makes military 5.56 ammo in Lake City, UT.

It is my understanding that Winchester Q3131 is US made, while Q3131A is Isreali made. I believe this ammo is a substitute standard for M193 (5.56 NATO)

Just some examples.

Matt-J2
March 3, 2009, 01:28 AM
Although I found a Federal Premium Ammunition site, it laid no claims to American Eagle ammo. Maybe I'm not an internet search expert, but I couldn't find the producer of American Eagle anywhere.

It's made by Federal. It's on their website. Look in the products section. Just looking at handgun, it sorts everything by caliber and brand, and you can even set the filter to grab only products from a particular brand.

WardenWolf
March 3, 2009, 02:22 AM
I have zero problems with it being South Korean-made. South Korea is a longtime US ally and has some of the highest technology levels in the world, rivaling, or even exceeding in some areas, the US and Japan. South Korean products should be good. I knew where it was from and, knowing that, bought a 1000 round case.

Prince Yamato
March 3, 2009, 02:42 AM
Some of Winchester's Ammo is actually made by S&B. The name "Winchester USA" therefore is a brand name and not indicative of where the ammo is produced. So much production is outsourced these days, I wouldn't let it bother you. You may not be paying an American to manufacture the ammo, but somewhere along the lines, the dollars will reach our soil.

22-rimfire
March 3, 2009, 08:25 AM
PMC has always been a South Korean company. They opened and later closed a factory in the US which resulted in their bankruptcy. They have been trying to get back on the saddle in the last year loading some centerfire ammo.

rbernie
March 3, 2009, 08:27 AM
Exactly. Pan Metal Corp was the Americanized name the South Korean company gave for its US arm, decades ago. But they've always been a Korean company, and that's never been hidden from view.

Interesting, tho, that the current web site kinda *does* try to gloss over their history a bit, as pointed out in the OP's link to the PMC Ammo web site:

http://www.pmcammo.com/about.html

Hk91-762mm
March 3, 2009, 08:31 AM
I have zero problems with it being South Korean-made. South Korea is a longtime US ally and has some of the highest technology levels in the world, rivaling, or even exceeding in some areas, the US and Japan. South Korean products should be good. I knew where it was from and, knowing that, bought a 1000 round case.


I beleave SK has the worlds largest shipyard also..Building the worlds largest ships.
COMMON America Git with the program!!!

bonza
March 3, 2009, 08:36 AM
I don't know what percentage of Winchester's ammo is outsourced, but they do have an ammo factory in East Alton, IL. I was given a personal tour back in '83.
As far as PMC goes, I guess I always assumed it was So. Korean, I used to sell it back in the 1980s, & it was always clearly marked as to where it was made.
Fairly certain that American Eagle is the budget line of Federal Ammunition.

Deanimator
March 3, 2009, 08:37 AM
I first shot PMC ammunition more than twenty years ago. The "PMC" originally stood for Poongsan Metal Co. It was good ammunition back then, hotter than a lot of others. I reloaded the brass for years.

Deanimator
March 3, 2009, 08:39 AM
Exactly. Pan Metal Corp
For at least a while, they were "Patton, Morgan, Corp"

Oro
March 3, 2009, 08:39 AM
I beleave SK has the worlds largest shipyard also..Building the worlds largest ships.

Yes, the Daewoo yard at Okpo is quite impressive. I saw it once about 10 years ago. ULCC's just strung about like toys - amazing. Unfortunately it's on an island so not terribly accessible for tourists.

Daewoo builds excellent guns, and I have not problem owning SK built products, either guns, ammo or other. China is another matter in my book, and I wish people took more notice of how this undermines our economy.

22-rimfire
March 3, 2009, 08:46 AM
In 41 mag, it was my go to ammo for general shooting which is the majority of what I did. It was relatively cheap; packed in 50-round boxes; and always shot consistantly if not a little hot. I also have a fair amount of their 357 mag ammo as well.

American Eagle is a Federal product. Federal is owned by ATK which owns CCI.

I have never hesitated to purchase their ammo when I needed ammunition. PMC please expand your product line. I also liked their 22 rimfire line even though it was not loaded by them.

Howard Roark
March 3, 2009, 09:35 AM
A couple of observations. The web site cites Houston Tx as their US sales office.

I guess they don't have the Boulder plant anymore? I had a friend that worked as a salesman there a few years ago and have been all over the plant to included shooting machine guns in the 100 yard underground test range.

The company has always been owned and operated by a Korean woman. Since I saw her at the SHOT Show I guess she still is in charge. Their shotgun shells were made by Fiocchi, Carlo Fiocchi was over that part of the business. One problem they had was a German fellow that was over some part of sales. He also had a company in Europe that he was more concerned with keeping stocked than the American dealers. My friend missed sales because there was product on the floor being shipped to Europe that he couldn't put it out the door to dealers here.

I also see they have the big PMC riggs on the web site. They were sold off a couple of years ago and DPMS has one of them. They used to have one at the SHOT Show. This year they only had a small but nice built up booth.

NCsmitty
March 3, 2009, 09:42 AM
To my knowledge, PMC rimfire is/was made by Aguila.

NCsmitty

BCCL
March 3, 2009, 09:43 AM
Just curious if anyone can show a picture of a box of Winchester ammo, that says it was made anywhere but East Alton, here in Illinois.

I've seen internet stuff about S&B, Israel and Czechoslovakia before, but as someone that shoots a great deal of Winchester ammo, I have yet to actually see a box that was imported.

damien
March 3, 2009, 11:41 AM
South Korea in general is one of the best manufacturers in the world, along side USA, Germany, and Japan. They make most of the world's LCD panels and high density computer memory, things that are very difficult to manufacture and require exacting standards.

ArmedBear
March 3, 2009, 11:44 AM
It's made by Federal.

Some of it has an F stamped on the bottom, even.:)

South Korea is a longtime US ally

Hell, we've probably got more troops in Korea than here in the US at the moment. It's practically part of the US.:D

daskro
March 3, 2009, 12:08 PM
Federal makes military 5.56 ammo in Lake City, UT.
Lake City is in Independence Missouri, it's owned by the Army but leased and operated by ATK, who owns Federal and makes military and civ ammunition there.

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 3, 2009, 12:17 PM
Lake City, UT
Lake City != Salt Lake City

statelineblues
March 3, 2009, 12:24 PM
Been shooting PMC ammo for 20+ years - never had a problem with it. And yes, it was common knowledge that the company was South Korean.

Posted by ArmedBear:
Hell, we've probably got more troops in Korea than here in the US at the moment. It's practically part of the US.

I was stationed there '77 - '78; very interesting country.

CoRoMo
March 3, 2009, 12:28 PM
No surprise there.

ArmedBear
March 3, 2009, 12:29 PM
I was stationed there '77 - '78; very interesting country.

Yeah. They just don't know how to make sauerkraut worth a damn.:D

CWL
March 3, 2009, 01:02 PM
No sauerkraut, but you gotta love the kimchee!


anyways,I trust South Korean ammo and weaponry.

Aside from their technical expertise, South Korea (RoK) is a nation that has always existed between China and Japan, and which is still technically at war with North Korea. For their entire existence, someone has been trying to kick Korea's @ss.

They are quite serious about their munitions.


(btw Tyrannosaurus, is Kahr your favorite US-made pistol? ;) )

Kentucky
March 3, 2009, 04:48 PM
Although I found a Federal Premium Ammunition site, it laid no claims to American Eagle ammo. Maybe I'm not an internet search expert, but I couldn't find the producer of American Eagle anywhere.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=810

Jim K
March 3, 2009, 06:04 PM
I never heard of PMC ammunition being made anywhere else but in Korea. If they made ammunition for Winchester, Remington or C.D. Leet, or if they have/had plants in the U.S., Mexico, South Africa, or Shangri-La, I didn't know it.

Jim

jdh
March 3, 2009, 06:12 PM
Just curious if anyone can show a picture of a box of Winchester ammo, that says it was made anywhere but East Alton, here in Illinois.

You asked for it, you got it.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/MVC-002S-2.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/MVC-001S-1.jpg
Look in the lower right corner.

jaholder1971
March 3, 2009, 07:19 PM
Quote:
Lake City, UT
Lake City != Salt Lake City

No, It's not!

Lake City AAP is on the East Side of Independence, Missouri.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/aap-lakecity.htm

351 WINCHESTER
March 3, 2009, 07:24 PM
If you want to know where commercial ammo comes from look at the box. If there is a USA name and address the country or origin is required to be placed in close proxcimity in lettering at least as large.

NCsmitty
March 3, 2009, 08:44 PM
I just looked at a box of PMC Zapper22. It says "Eldorado Cartridge Corporation" Boulder City, NV 89005
Made in Mexico

NCsmitty

22-rimfire
March 3, 2009, 10:38 PM
Loaded by Aguila for PMC. You are correct. I still have some Zappers around.

wrxguyusa
March 3, 2009, 10:50 PM
I know, I'm off-topic, but I have to say the populous of South Korea is rapidly turning against the US. The government has taken a soft handed approach to N. Korea and has handed them quite a bit of aid. This news doesn't seem to spread to the US, but I have a friend that is a Korean born natualized US citizen that keeps me up on this.

VegasOPM
March 3, 2009, 10:56 PM
Some of PMC ammo, at least, is made in Boulder City, NV. I've seen the factory there.


Not any more. The PMC factory in Boulder City is now vacant- and has been for 3 years. Current production PMC ammo is South Korean.

On the plus side, a really nice couple have leased the old PMC range and turned it into a world class shooting range.

BCCL
March 4, 2009, 07:54 AM
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/jhooten/MVC-001S-1.jpg

Well there you go, thanks jdh!

Yosemite Sam
March 4, 2009, 09:49 AM
Lake City, UT
Lake City != Salt Lake City

No, It's not!

Lake City AAP is on the East Side of Independence, Missouri.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...p-lakecity.htm

!= means "not equal to" in the land of computer programming. :p

If you enjoyed reading about "PMC ammo is not American made." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!