Ancient History Still Valid?


PDA






Kestral
March 3, 2009, 04:50 AM
I posted this on another forum,but wondered if anyone here might like to comment on it in regard to todays ways of thinking.Told to me age 9 many-many years ago,but never forgotten. Your gun is your best friend.It is not only there to protect you if in extreme danger,but also to to give you many hours of sporting pleasure and relaxation. Being it is such a special friend,you should always treat it as such,look after it and care for it, and never ask it to do anything that you would know to be wrong yourself.If you ever did that,it would break the special relationship you have with your gun, you will have dishonoured,abused,and shamed it,and that knowledge would be past onto any other gun you may eventually own in years to come.Would you really want to treat a true friend like that ?.

If you enjoyed reading about "Ancient History Still Valid?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
DRYHUMOR
March 3, 2009, 05:42 AM
Good thoughts.

Probably true, as seen by how some folks look after their "friends", and how they become more valued with age.

And they age gracefully. With the signs of the roads well traveled, and a life lived well.

rbernie
March 3, 2009, 08:25 AM
My gun is not my friend. It is an inanimate object, a tool that I use for sport and defense. I value it highly, but I do not normally engage in anthropomorphic musings. My gun has no memory, has no feelings, and is incapable of human emotion.

If I ever get to the point where I believe that my gun is my friend - I need to see a shrink.

Really.

Double Naught Spy
March 3, 2009, 08:30 AM
Being it is such a special friend,you should always treat it as such,look after it and care for it, and never ask it to do anything that you would know to be wrong yourself.If you ever did that,it would break the special relationship you have with your gun, you will have dishonoured,abused,and shamed it,and that knowledge would be past onto any other gun you may eventually own in years to come.Would you really want to treat a true friend like that ?.

That is creepy on so many levels. It seems to border on idol worship.

crebralfix
March 3, 2009, 08:51 AM
I agree with rbernie. I don't name my guns or anything inanimate. They're just things.

Old Fuff
March 3, 2009, 09:08 AM
Well I admit to have given names to a few of my favorites... :)

I would point out that this story was told to a 9 year-old boy, and undoubtedly was supposed to be in a context he would understand. Children are different than adults, and I plan to keep this story in mind because I might want to use it for its intended purpose.

I am reminded of the movie "E.T.," which many children loved and also contained a message about tolerance that hopefully adult viwers got.

But then it is well known that the Old Fuff is way over the hill, and probably needs to talk to a.... mental health professional.

hso
March 3, 2009, 09:46 AM
I've seen and heard the sentiment expressed, but I have to agree that it is misplaced to refer to a tool as a "friend". It is an effective way to impress upon a child the importance of caring for a firearm, using emotional appeal instead of reason. It's easier to reach some children with this.

rbernie
March 3, 2009, 09:52 AM
This is probably just me being an unnecessary contrarian, but I think that teaching children to anthropomorphise *anything* is a bad idea. (This is exactly how people learn to demonize objects such as guns instead of attributing the positive or negative to whomever wields the object...)

My kids have healthy, active imaginations (my 7 yr old writes and draws his own comic books, for example) but they do not, and are not encouraged to, confuse that which is play/pretend from that which is real.

Old Fuff
March 3, 2009, 10:30 AM
Well admittedly the Old Fuff had a bad upbringing, and may have been influenced negatively when he learned that Davy Crockett called his rifle “Old Betsey,” but then, some thought he was demented, and we all know that he came to a bad end. In any case even as a small child I understood that Davy was a person and his rifle was a rifle even both had names. I was also aware that people gave their dogs and cats names, and often were quite affectionate toward them, even though they weren’t people.

I admit that my screwed-up mentality has resulted in an affectionate feeling toward some of my firearms, and I have a certain bond with them. They are in a sense a true and dependable friend that I have sometimes staked my life on, and there are a whole lot of people I know that don’t even close to that status.

But to each his own… :)

ar10
March 3, 2009, 10:51 AM
Actually firearms are recent history and not ancient. But if you think about it the relationship between humans and firearms is unique because there's more written history about them. I can understand why firearms were given names and regarded as animate objects. Peoples lives depended on them more than they could depend on an individual, that's part of human nature. At least when the "Davy Crocketts" of early America were out in the middle of no-where land they had something they knew would protect them. It happens now during the many wars the world seems to be going through. I certainly depended on my weapon more than the guy next to me during Viet Nam. As far as naming them? No. Unlike a "pet", if it broke I could always get another one. It may be an extension of the person using it but it's still just a tool.

Lightninstrike
March 3, 2009, 10:58 AM
This is probably just me being an unnecessary contrarian, but I think that teaching children to anthropomorphise *anything* is a bad idea. (This is exactly how people learn to demonize objects such as guns instead of attributing the positive or negative to whomever wields the object...)


What he said. Let's not help the "guns kill" crowd.

jackstinson
March 3, 2009, 11:12 AM
I've never owned a hammer that I considered "a friend".
I've never owned a car that I considered "a friend".
I suppose I should name my shoes "Righty" and "Lefty"? ;)

Okay, I confess to owning one gun which has a name...only because it's former owner engraved his girlfriend's name "Shauna" in the slide.
http://www.weirdjack.com/guns/bauer_LT.jpg

rbernie
March 3, 2009, 11:19 AM
I admit that my screwed-up mentality has resulted in an affectionate feeling toward some of my firearms, and I have a certain bond with them. They are in a sense a true and dependable friend that I have sometimes staked my life on, and there are a whole lot of people I know that don’t even close to that status.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having affectionate feelings for a special tool. But that's a far cry from:

never ask it to do anything that you would know to be wrong yourself.If you ever did that,it would break the special relationship you have with your gun, you will have dishonoured,abused,and shamed it,and that knowledge would be past onto any other gun you may eventually own in years to come.

There is an order of magitude difference between those two positions.

Harve Curry
March 3, 2009, 11:20 AM
" Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size, when danger threatens call on me and I will equalize."

Saw that engraved on a 19th Century COLT SAA once. The sentiment would only work in a semi-anarchy enviroment, like what existed in the American frontier prior to 1912 and statehood. I think it belonged to a man from Globe Arizona.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ancient history does matter, but the official posters story isn't ancient history. Ancient history to me is anything BC. The philosphers of ancient Greece, writings about rights, structures of governments and society. Those ideals apply today. Our American Founding Fathers studied and used it. Technology has changed but not man.

ar10
March 3, 2009, 03:17 PM
I've never owned a hammer that I considered "a friend".
I do, but then I was a carpenter before they had nail guns. :D
I've never owned a car that I considered "a friend".
I did, best friend I ever had until the repo'ed it. I didn't know you had to pay someone for a car. :o:(
I suppose I should name my shoes "Righty" and "Lefty"?

I've named mine frick (left) and frack (my other left). :D

General Geoff
March 3, 2009, 03:30 PM
Firearms are complex mechanical devices. Historically speaking, humans have always observed personality-like qualities in complex machines, such as ships, cars, aircraft, and the like. This is not out of delusion, but merely out of observation. Complex machines, when observed by a person, may actually "prefer" certain ways of operation, maintenance, cleaning, and care. They might work more reliably when using a certain method or technique, as opposed to when using another, even if both are technically valid.

This is not to say that the machine has feelings, but it does have quirks that may cause it to function differently, better or worse, given different operators and/or maintenance procedures.

DRYHUMOR
March 3, 2009, 08:50 PM
General Geoff,

Well stated.

I've worked at a lot of remote sites. We would sometimes name all the trucks, equipment, generators, etc.

Even inanimate objects have personalities and quirks. There may still be a Cat generator out there named "Mary Francis" after my grandma. I never did get around to labling "Moe", "Larry", and "Curly" though. LOL

As far as a weapon being a "friend", it's an old idea I've heard a long time ago also. Take care of your friend, your friend will take care of you, kind of thing.

And in reality most well taken care of weapons develop patina, charactor, and legend. Even if they are tools, maybe even named "Betsy".

Poper
March 3, 2009, 08:56 PM
But then it is well known that the Old Fuff is way over the hill, and probably needs to talk to a.... mental health professional.I spoke to a shrink once.
We agreed that he was the one with the problem. :D

Poper

PT1911
March 3, 2009, 09:00 PM
I am not about to put any sort of human characteristics into a gun or anything mechanical for that matter, but the fact remains that the use of guns can lead to pleasure (lots), pain(even more) and many other things.... the only thing I put into my guns that I can be seen as"human" would be trust... you've got to trust them.

2RCO
March 3, 2009, 09:10 PM
Anyone who thinks mechanical creations can't have personalities or quirks has never owned an older British Car then again maybe it's just the Lucas wiring.

Guns are tools not people I agree but some such as family guns have value for memories as well.

Poper
March 3, 2009, 09:10 PM
I never did get around to labling "Moe", "Larry", and "Curly" though.Now that's a hoot!
When I was in the service, our off-base mobile maintenance trucks were named "Larry", "Moe" & "Curly". "Shemp" was the on-base mobile truck! TCC (Traffic Control Center) was nicknamed "Snoopy" and a SAT vehicle was "Car 54"!

Too funny! :D :D :D

Poper

Ohio Gun Guy
March 3, 2009, 09:20 PM
Is that about your rifle or gun? :what:



This is my rifle and this is my gun......

(Supposed to be humor!)

SundownRider
March 3, 2009, 11:13 PM
Reminds of that TV show "Brisco County Junior" where one of the bad guys has a rather interesting relationship with his "piece".

Tommygunn
March 3, 2009, 11:23 PM
Anyone who thinks mechanical creations can't have personalities or quirks has never owned an older British Car then again maybe it's just the Lucas wiring.

I used to drive a MGB in the early '80s.
It's the wiring. Trust me -- been there, done that.:fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:

polekitty
March 3, 2009, 11:26 PM
That's what Bill O'Reilly says on his tv show. So, I may also be wrong. But I think some of you missed the main philosophy: Respect you gun. Period. Many people (too many) don't respect their gun(s). But then, maybe these same people also don't respect some one suppossedly their friend. If you were in the military (what i really mean is the infantry) you probably thought the very best friend you had was your rifle. I did.

ConstitutionCowboy
March 3, 2009, 11:28 PM
You'd all better have an intimate relationship with your weapons. The better you know them, the more likely you'll have good results when you need to use them in an emergency.

Woody

PS: I usd to drive a Lotus Elan. It's more than the Lucas electrics: It's the SU side-draft carbs as well.

rbernie
March 3, 2009, 11:36 PM
Respect you gun. Period. Many people (too many) don't respect their gun(s). I have no quarrel with that notion. But that's not what the OP wrote:
Being it is such a special friend,you should always treat it as such,look after it and care for it, and never ask it to do anything that you would know to be wrong yourself.If you ever did that,it would break the special relationship you have with your gun, you will have dishonoured,abused,and shamed it,and that knowledge would be past onto any other gun you may eventually own in years to come.No, the OP is suggesting more than respect for the firearm, and more than simply affection for a fine piece of technology. It's just CREEPY.

Double Naught Spy
March 4, 2009, 08:50 AM
You'd all better have an intimate relationship with your weapons.

I have an intimate relationship with my wife. I have no such relationship with my firearms. I am very familiar with how they work and how to make them work, but there is no sense of intimacy with any of them. The notion of being intimate with weaponry also is creepy on so many levels.

I do not have a relationship with my guns and they do not have one with me. They are not alive. The do not have feelings. They do not care what I think of them or whether I respect, honor, love, or cherish them. There is no knowledge that I can pass on to them. They are not alive and have no capacity for knowledge, honor, shame, pride, etc.

Given some of the misplaced emotional sentiments some of y'all express, I am a bit concerned for you. It scares me to think that some of these "relationships" you have with your weapons are being perceived by you as two way relationships.

Doggy Daddy
March 4, 2009, 09:23 AM
This thread makes me think of "Lord of the Rings."

I'm imagining people waving their firearms around and announcing their name and lineage whenever they are in a social situation. :D

ConstitutionCowboy
March 4, 2009, 10:30 AM
I have an intimate relationship with my wife. I have no such relationship with my firearms. I am very familiar with how they work and how to make them work, but there is no sense of intimacy with any of them. The notion of being intimate with weaponry also is creepy on so many levels.

I was being poetical. That said, you need to know them as well as you should know your wife - what they like to "eat", how they respond to your handling, the care they need to keep them "healthy", etc., etc.

Get it?

Woody

mainmech48
March 4, 2009, 11:15 AM
Gotta agree with rbernie on this'un. That sort of animistic booshwah belongs in "Ngarl's Saga" and "Beowulf".

Old joke which some of the previous posters might appreciate:

"Why do the British drink warm beer?"

"Lucas refrigerators."

General Geoff
March 4, 2009, 02:11 PM
This all boils down to a couple of very simple notions.

Humans are social creatures.

Humans are tool users.

Combine the two and you will inevitably have some crossover. This is why many people imbue objects with person-like qualities, and also why many people use other people as tools. :D

Maelstrom
March 4, 2009, 04:45 PM
Say the same thing about my pistol that I was told about my motorcycle.

"If the day ever comes that you're not afraid of it, get rid of it."

Bill of Ojai
March 4, 2009, 05:11 PM
Well,I'm married to "Old Slabsides".

yokel
March 4, 2009, 05:13 PM
It sounds reminiscent of a rite or cult of fetish worshipers.

Double Naught Spy
March 4, 2009, 07:38 PM
I was being poetical. That said, you need to know them as well as you should know your wife - what they like to "eat", how they respond to your handling, the care they need to keep them "healthy", etc., etc.

Get it?

Woody

Poetical? When trying to clarify the meaning of a term or concept, being poetical is not good route to take, especially when the issue is one dealing with unnatural relationships.

So I need to know my gun as I know my wife? That is getting back to that whole creepy intimacy thing again. That is just wrong.

The capabilities and functions of my firearms is sheer simplicity compared to the capabilities and functions of my wife. I certainly do not need to know my firearms as I know my wife.

Kestral
March 5, 2009, 04:05 AM
To clarify my Grandfathers thoughts on owning a gun, Ancient Wisdom thread; this was after being liberated after 5 years of ww2 german occupation. As a child being told every day by big men in grey uniforms carrying guns,that if we disobeyed their rules we would be shot.All of a sudden these big men were gone,May 9th 1945,but all their guns and ammo was still here.As kids ,it was like a big toyshop,the authorites & our parents couldnt be watching us all the time.There was thousands of weapons and ammo all over the place,so how could we be educated in a hurry not to do anything stupid to ourselves or others,how do you get through to a 9 year old not to use a gun without thinking of possible consequences.My Grandfather used the idea of calling these guns our friends & not to abuse them.It worked.we had only one shooting,a spastic boy ,very jealous of his brothers girlfriend,so he shot his brother & injured his mother.If this happened in your country,where young kids had this same access, under similer circumstances,how would you have dealt with it.??

If you enjoyed reading about "Ancient History Still Valid?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!