[valnar]

I don't own any guns chambered for .45LC, but am thinking of getting my fist one. I know this cartridge has been around longer than almost any other, with a longevity somewhat equal to .38 Special. So I am surprised at the lack of ammo brands and availability of these guns. Why is that?

It seems on paper to be the perfect cartridge. Big, yet faster than .45ACP or .44Special. Not as fast as a Magnum, so it won't hurt the hand as much. 225 grains at about 950fps. Yah, that seems just about right for a manstopper.

The only S&W gun I can buy with a .45LC is a 625, and its not even listed on the Smith & Wesson site anymore. Why not more choices? Yes, I know there are many Single Action choices, but why not mainstream SA/DA?

Can anyone explain the popularity of this cartridge lasting over a century, yet also the unpopularity of it?

-Robert

[C.R.Sam]

Not all that many folks into big bore stuff.

Unless the marketers have hung the "Magnum" label on it.

Sam

[HogRider]

If you look at hand loader forums you will be surprised that the 45 Colt is probably the most popular caliber out there. With modern and strong built revolvers ( Rugers for example ) the 45 LC can be loaded to and actually beyond 44 Magnum levels.

But I can understand the dislike of this caliber from the non re loaders, because most of the factory ammo is loaded to a level where it can be still shot in Colt's SAA and the clones.

Personally, it is my favorite cartridge.

[Tamara]

I know this cartridge has been around longer than almost any other, with a longevity somewhat equal to .38 Special.

Actually, it's been around since 1873. :)

Ruger and Taurus both catalog DA guns in the caliber, and S&W and Colt both occasionally turn out batches, too. ( The 625 and the on-again, off-again Anaconda, currently a Custom Shop offering in .44 Mag only, but will probably reappear in .45 sooner or later.)

[Old Fuff]

The .45 Colt was originally designed for use in single-action revolvers, so it has a relatively small diameter rim for it's body. The .44 Special/.44 Magnum has the same rim as the .45, but a smaller dia. body. This may (or may not) cause a problem in modern double-action revolvers that have star extractors which must push on the cartridge's rim while it clears all of the chambers at once.

Therefore I prefer the S&W series of .44 cartridges in double-action revolvers while I often pick the .45 Colt in single-actions.

A Ruger or Freedom Arms single-action will handle .45 Colt handloads which will do anything the .44 Magnum will, and then some. At the other end of the scale it is one of the most accurate rounds available when used with moderate loads.

[Parker Dean]

I've been looking at the .45 Colt and as has been mentioned it looks good on paper for a SD cartridge in standard loadings while it can go as high as a middle range .454 with modern brass.

One thing I don't particularly care for is the narrow rim. It's about .10in while the magnum rims are .25in. This could result in a case hung up under the extractor if you're not careful and we all know just exactly when the problem would occur.

But I just have this thing for oddball/obsolete cartridges so I'm going to get a .45 Colt revolver. Right now leaning towards the Anaconda.


edit: Just remembered that there are a LOT of reports of improperly sized throats and barrels on the .45 Colt revo's. Smiths and Rugers tend to have throats too small. Smiths tend to get a pinch point in the barrel. Colts tend toward oversized throats and barrels. Be sure to get yours checked out first. Too small is an easy fix, but oversize would be an expensive pain unless under warranty.

[444]

The .45 Colt is FAR from an oddball or obsolete cartridge. How oddball can a cartridge be when it is loaded by every major cartridge company and by many smaller specialty manufacturers ? How can the cartridge be obsolete when it is avialable as a standard chambering from Ruger, Taurus, Freedom Arms, American Derringer, Winchester, several Italian comapanies in both rifles and revolvers, S&W, and Colt ? How can a cartridge that out performs the .44 Magnum be obsolete ?

I currently own two .45 Colts, a Ruger Blackhawk and a Winchester 94 Trapper. The .45 Colt is a wonderful cartridge. As was mentioned, it is very accurate, easy to handload, and has more than enough horsepower for all but the most demanding tasks.

[WESHOOT2]

Suggest considering before buying what your platform will be launching. While the Anaconda is decently robust it will not withstand a steady diet of "Ruger" loads.
The Anaconda CAN BE extremely accurate.

(I have a 5.5" Redhawk.)

[Parker Dean]

Originally posted by 444
The .45 Colt is FAR from an oddball or obsolete cartridge. How oddball can a cartridge be when it is loaded by every major cartridge company and by many smaller specialty manufacturers ? How can the cartridge be obsolete when it is avialable as a standard chambering from Ruger, Taurus, Freedom Arms, American Derringer, Winchester, several Italian comapanies in both rifles and revolvers, S&W, and Colt ? How can a cartridge that out performs the .44 Magnum be obsolete ?


Uh huh. Methinks you doth protest too much :)

Personally I place the .45 Colt in more of the oddball category than obsolete, and even then the "oddball" label is a bit stronger than I want but I can't think of an alternative term at the moment.

All the things you pointed out about availability of guns/cartridges in .45 Colt can be said of the 10mm but I don't see anyone trying to say the 10 is mainstream either.

The way I look at it I can walk into just about any gunshop in the nation and be almost certain of finding handguns in .25ACP, 9mm, 38SP, .357, 40 S&W, 44Mag, and 45ACP. OTOH, to find 10mm and 45 Colt's I have to do a bit of looking. That IMO places them in more the oddball category than the mainstream although they are not so oddball as to be nearly impossible to find like some of the TRULY obsolete stuff.

[Mannlicher]

I think its time to disabuse ourselves of the notion that the rim on the .45 Colt will cause any type of problem at all when used in swing out cylinder revolvers. I have been using this cartridge in Colt, and Smith revolvers for about 40 years now, and I have never seen personally, nor have I been shown credible evidence that the rim is a problem. For all the bleating and pontificating on this subject, I have yet to see a case problem.

[WESHOOT2]

When using my (5.5" stainless) 45 Colt Redhawk at a match I noticed some difficulty ejecting spent cases rapidly; I attribute this to the small rim.
When operating at 'normal' speed the trouble disappears.

NO trouble ejecting nuclear-powered cases. Except those pesky R-P's.

[Old Fuff]

Consider yourself fortunate ......

I have seen instances where double-action S&W and Colt revolvers chambered in .45 Colt have had problems with the extractor star slipping past the case rim after the case was extracted about 2/3's of the way.

The rim depth (distance between the outside of the rim to the case body) can be as little as .015" on a .45 Colt. Compare that to .028" on a .44 Special/.44 Magnum; .028 on a .41 Magnum; or .030 on a .38 Special/.357 Magnum.

[HogRider]

I have only used Starline brass since I shoot 45 Colt. I have not had an ejection problem with my Redhawk, but I have no experience with any other brand of brass.

[Dr.Rob]

Only reason I don't own a .45 Colt is I haven't found the right revolver chambered for it at the right price. Namely, a New Service Colt or Earlier DA Colt revolver.

Even without hot rodding the 45 Colt is a formidable cartridge.

[Tamara]

My DA .45 Colt can't get 'em hung under the star; the ejector rod ain't but barely long enough. :D

[C.R.Sam]

Anybody usin 45 SW (Schoefield) cases in .45 Colt chambered hand ejector guns. ?

IF...the bigger rim didn't cause a new problem, should cure any star/ejection problems.

So many things to try, so little time.

Sam

[BluesBear]

If you point the muzzle up before you stroke the ejector rod you'll never have a problem with cases slipping past the extractor, regardless of caliber.

If you point the muzzle down and stroke it either too fast OR too slow you'll probably get one hung sooner or later, regardless of caliber.

Rim size, actually, has very little to do with it. And contrary to popular belief, a longer ejector stoke makes it easier to let one slip past.

[WESHOOT2]

R-P cases are a bit 'thin' for 'Ruger-only' loads; Starline and Federal.

[Mike Irwin]

"I know this cartridge has been around longer than almost any other, with a longevity somewhat equal to .38 Special."

It's got the .38 Spl. by almost 30 years, actually. But the .38 Spl. has maintained its popularity a lot longer.

Simply put, it WASN'T popular for a long time.

It was a legacy cartridge, a dying round in a lot of ways.

Few firearms were chambered for it after WW I up to the 1950s, and those that did simply didn't sell all that well.

Were it not for the rise in Cowboy Action Shooting over the last 20 years, it's likely that a LOT of the older cartridges, such as the .32-20, the .44-40, the .38-40, and the .45 Long Colt, that have seen a resurgence in popularity would be functionally obsolete.



Harley,

I really have to wonder about your comment regarding loading the .45 Long Colt. I don't think it has a tinker's chance in hell of being the most popular handloading choice out there when stacked up against rounds like the .45 ACP, the .38 Spl./.357 Mag., and the 9mm.

It may be one of the most ASKED ABOUT, but I seriously doubt that that translates into popularity.

There is no doubt, though, that it is being reloaded a lot more than it was 20 years ago.



Mannlicher,

BLEAT! BLEAT!

I've had one instance of the rim on a .45 Long Colt cartridge slipping under the extractor and hanging up the gun. It was, however, my fault as I was babying extraction and had the muzzle pretty much horizontal.

Given those criteria, I've had that happen with a .38 Spl., which has a much larger rim.

[444]

Mike I may easily be wrong on this (like I am on everything else), but it seems to me that CAS only helped the .45 Colt along. It seems like it started coming back before I ever heard of CAS. I always attributed it to the modern handgun designs that allowed the cartridge to be pushed to it's limits. Things like the Ruger Blackhawk, and five shot conversions seemed like they pre-dated the CAS craze but that may have only bee a local thing.

[Bacchus]

Why not pick up a 454 and have the option to shoot either that or the 45 LC?

[Mike Irwin]

There were handguns chambering the .45 Long Colt post 1950s, such as the revived Colt Peacemaker, the reproductions, and the like.

But it wasn't by any stretch of the imagination truly a popular round.

Believe it or not, what really helped it was...

The .44 Magnum craze.

When people found that they couldn't find .44 Magnums, they went to the next best thing (in their own minds) that they could find, the .45 Long Colt. After all, it had a huge hole in the end of the barrel, so it must be great, right? Then they found out that the power levels of the ammo at that time was something less than spectacular...

Colt did try to introduce a nifty little short-barreled .45 LC 5-shot in the middle to late 1970s, IIRC. It was touted in a couple magazines as the perfect back up gun for a cop... I guess the idea was to compete with the Charter Bull Dog. Unfortunately, it flopped like a fish out of water.

No matter how you cut it, though, the .45 LC is STILL a niche cartridge -- it's biggest niche is the CAS shooters. That's where the majority of all .45 LCs apparently go, and if you look, single-action Colt and S&W style repops comprise about 75% of the caliber's chamberings.

Any way you cut it, the .45 LC is probably as popular now, if not more so, than any time since 1900.

[Gary H]

These threads are lots of fun and I always learn something. I have only one .45 L.C., a S&W Mod 25-3. It was manufactured around 1977 and marketed as a 125th Anniversary Edition. Beware, the chambers were made oversized for the barrel used and accuracy suffers. I had to return mine to S&W and pay them for a new cylinder. This is a known problem at S&W over a two year production range. I don't know why they would do this after 125 years. The gun now outperforms me by a large margin.

Anyway, the reason that this gun is popular with reloaders..even for double action, is that you can load over a very large range of velocities/bullet weights. With the Rugers & T/C you can push a 300 grain bullet at 1300 fps. Lyman list one load for a 175gr. going down range at 440fps. I've never loaded anything approaching either of those limits, but it does present possibilities. The large case makes for easy handling and it doesn't blend into the thousands of smaller bits of brass that adorn the grounds at most ranges. In terms of popularity with the reloading community, I suspect that .38/.357mag, .45 ACP and 9mm are at the top of the pack.

[uglygun]

Hmmmm, GaryH I have the same gun and it shoots wonders....


Mine is also has just about the tightest lockup I've ever felt on an S&W revolver. How did you measure your chambers to determine they were over size?

Mine simply goes bonkers for 185grn Nosler hollow points. Hopefully it will stay as accurate as it begins to loosen up over time.


I have yet to do any reloading tricks to try to gain additional accuracy out of the gun, been thinking about only partially sizing the cases to see if I could get a better fit between casing and chamber walls. Kinda like neck sizing only for revolvers.

[Gary H]

I slugged the chambers and the barrel after varying every load parameter that I could think of. All these revolvers were made with overly large chambers. Mine was out of spec, with regards to their intent. My information with regards to model years came from an old timer at S&W named Gene. He is the guy that handled my gun.

[Mike Irwin]

Forgot to mention...

One of the guns that I desparately want right now?

An S&W Model 25 with a 4" barrel.

[JoeHatley]

Mike,

One kinda like this...

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/25_5_4_l.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Joe

[uglygun]

Was it the 25-5 that was produced for awhile as a 45LC?


A neighbor of my parents was selling a lot of guns about 6 years back and when i went to go look at the collection the only one I was interested in was a 4 inch barreled 45LC. And that was the ONE gun that wasn't for sale, would have loved to have gotten that thing.

[Mike Irwin]

Yeah, just like that Joe, you SOB. :D

[J Miller]

Wow!!! There is just way too much mis-information, dis-information, and just plain incorrect information in this thread for me to sort it out.

All I can say is the .45 Colt (no "Long" in the name) is a very popular cartridge. Just because certain groups don't like it, or other groups do doesn't mean anything.
If the .45 Colt is as unpopular, obsolete, and difficult to reload as some would suggest, it would have been discontinued long ago.
The guns and the ammunition has been in continous production since it's inception in 1873.
As for the small rim, causing all sorts of terrible jams and such, that's one of those urban legends that many who don't know what they are talking about repeat as fact.
The facts are, most of the "aledged problems" with the .45 Colt come from people who don't know what they are doing.
Like the coments that the small rims will jam under the extractor of a DA revolver. I've had a 25-5 for over 20 years. Never once have I had this happen. Point the muzzel UP when you eject the ammo and this problem ceases to exist. These rims don't cause problems in lever rifles either.

It's popular with a lot of people, not just the CAS shooters.
As a matter of fact, I think CAS shooting has hurt the credibility of the .45 Colt, more than urban ledgend. The squib loads used in CAS are worthless for anything but CAS, and in recent years many people have come to believe that this class of ammo is the traditional .45 Colt ammo. This couldn't be further from the truth.

I have two wheel guns and two lever guns chambered for this great round, and I will have more when I can get them.

J

[Oracle]

Wasn't the original .45 Colt load a 255 grain bullet over 40 grains of black powder, propelling said 255 grain projectile at about 950 ft. per second? Sounds pretty heavy-duty to me.

[Mike Irwin]

"All I can say is the .45 Colt (no "Long" in the name)"

We've had this discussion before. You're wrong. You're right. We're both right. Colt, a long time ago, billed the .45 Colt as the .45 LONG Colt in its advertising.

"If the .45 Colt is as unpopular, obsolete, and difficult to reload as some would suggest, it would have been discontinued long ago."

What is today isn't what always has been, J. Miller. The .45 Long Colt, like the .45-70, has enjoyed a great resurgence in popularity.

50, or even 30, years ago, that was not the case. The cartridge was still loaded, but few guns were manufactured for it.

Many cartridges that haven't been chambered in guns for years are still being manufactured -- .38 S&W, .32 S&W, and .32 Short Colt, are but three examples. Even the .22 WRF sees new production ammo now and again, and there hasn't been a new gun made in that caliber in what, 70 years?

Ammo is still loaded to supply the guns that still exist, even if new guns aren't being chambered.

"The guns and the ammunition has been in continous production since it's inception in 1873."

Ammunition I've deal with, but the statement about continuous production of the guns is, I believe, incorrect.

There was a 17 year gap in production of .45 Colt from the Colt factory, from 1940 (because of WW II production, of course) to 1956.

No Colt Single Action Armies, no New Services.

Smith & Wesson also dropped production of the revolvers chambered in .45 LC around the same time, and didn't pick up production again until 1978.

Ruger didn't pick up production of the .45 LC until sometime in the mid 1960s with the Blackhawk.

I also can't find any indication of importation of .45 LC revolvers until the 1960s, either.

If the .45 LC was so blindingly popular at all times during its production, why wasn't it one of the first calibers to go back into production at Colt and S&W after the war?

Why an 11 year gap for Colt?

Why nearly 30 years for Smith?

Why, also, if it was so popular, did it fail to find its way into a new line-up of double action revolvers until 1978?

As I've said several times previously, and is backed up by the record of its production, the .45 LC spend many many years on the 'still alive, but barely kicking' list.

Its resurgence is largely due to the popularity of 1950s and 1960s TV westerns and the rise of Cowboy Action Shooting.

"that's one of those urban legends that many who don't know what they are talking about repeat as fact."

Not when a number of us have experienced those jams, and they have been written about in numers magazines over the years. Mike Venturino has even mentioned the small rim as being problematic in his writings.


"Like the coments that the small rims will jam under the extractor of a DA revolver. I've had a 25-5 for over 20 years. Never once have I had this happen. Point the muzzel UP when you eject the ammo and this problem ceases to exist."

Hum...

You're saying that the rim problem doesn't exist, but then you give a SOLUTION for solving a problem that you say doesn't exist?

Huh?

"As a matter of fact, I think CAS shooting has hurt the credibility of the .45 Colt, more than urban ledgend."

Hum... How's that? It's a sport that draws attention back to the guns and the cartridges of the day. The more people learn about those guns & cartridges, the more theyre likely to buy those guns and cartridges.

Interesting how how that works, and how there have been more guns made for .45 LC in the past 20 years than there were in its previous 100 years of existence...


"I have two wheel guns and two lever guns chambered for this great round, and I will have more when I can get them."

Good. You know what you like.

Oh, and the lever guns?

No one chambered a lever gun for the .45 Colt until over 100 years AFTER it was introduced...

Hell, even Colt didn't chamber the .45 LC in its own rifles, the Colt-Burgess lever rifle or the Lightning slide action. Colt chose a Winchester cartridge, the .44-40, for both of those rifles.

Makes you wonder if Colt didn't have problems with the extractors and the .45 LC's small rim...

Look, J.

No one is trashing the .45 Long Colt cartridge. But it's simply not true that the cartridge has always been the be all and end all of handgun rounds in the United States. Like many of the rounds from that time frame it has waxed and waned in popularity with the shooting public.

It's very popular right now, and it should be. It's a great cartridge, just as it was in the old West.

But it wasn't even the be all and end all of cartridges there, either. Colt made nearly as many revolvers in .44-40 as they did in .45 LC.

[Mike Irwin]

Oracle,

Yes. The original commercial loadings for the .45 LC were thumpers, as were the original BP loadings for the .44-40, which had a few more foot pounds of energy.

[BluesBear]

Sure the WAS a problem with thin rims on the original black powder .45 Colt loads. (I'd wager that Mike probably has some in his collection that he might be able to photograsph for us.) That's why there were no repeating rifles chambered for it back in "the old days". Plus the fact that the oroginal loads were "balloon head" cases and rims were actually pretty easy to rip off.

The Army knew of this problem, and acknowledged it when they went back to using the .45 Colt in 1909 after the Moro Insurrection proved what a whimp the .38 Long Colt (yes the .38 was called long) cartridge was. The rims were so big on the 1909 ammo that you could only load THREE in a Single Action Army.

If you compare modern ammunition solid head ammo (since around 1930) with the original turn of the century black powder ammo you will see todays rim is noticably bigger.

TV westerns have been credited with the renewed interest in Single Action revolvers in general. This is not a new idea. Sure there weren't many NEW revolvers made in .45 Colt in the 1960s and 1970s but there were quite a few used ones on the market. If you go back abd read the popular guns magazines of that time, you'll see countless acticles on and questions from readers about how to convert revolvers such as the S&W Model 28 to .45 Colt.

The fact is that Colt didn't produce ANY double action revolver in a caliber larger that .357 after WWII. As I recall there were a number of S&W model 1950 target revolvers factory produced in .45 Colt. After WWII nearly every revolver caliber was taking a back seat to the .357 Magnum. It was the darling of the era. Newer, bigger better and all of that stuff.

As for the popularity of the .45 Colt for reloaders... every serious .45 Colt shooter that I know personally reloads for it. Not really a need to reload for .38 or .357. Until lately there just wasn't much available except for the 255 grain lead bullet loads. I remember the stir created when Federal introduced a lead hollow point in .45 Colt.

I remember a time when the only new revolver being produced in .44 Special was the Charter Arms Bulldog. Hells Bells I remeber when there were NO revolvers being made in .44 Special. Now look around. DiD Cowboy Action Shooting revive the .44 Special? No. .45 Colt? No.

CASS did revive the .44 Russian, the .38 Long Colt and the .32-20.
However even CASS can't resusitate the .41 Long Colt cartridge.

[Stainz]

My first DA revolver was purchased to fire my new-favorite, the .45 Colt. It was a Ruger SRH in .454 Casull, the ultimate .45 Colt descendent. My first S&W was a shocker from my wife - an S&W 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt. It is by far the smoothest firearm I own - a real joy to see, hold, and shoot. I have other N-frames, including a near identical 629 Mountain Gun in .44 Magnum, but none as smooth. That SRH is right up there with the S&W's - it's GP-100 lockwork makes it quite smooth - stopped me from buying a RedHawk. That 625MG is much more 'packable', with it's tapered tube, partial lug, chamfered cylinder, wood grips (S&W 21991 square-butt conversion), and bright finish - a dated look, except for the SS, to be sure.

I have also grown fond of the original mass-marketed centerfire revolver cartridge, the S&W .44 Russian, which pre-dated the .45 Colt by two years. Unfortunately, it's 35yr younger brother, the slightly longer .44 S&W Special, has never been very popular. In fact, S&W only offers one so-chambered revolver now, the 396 Mountain Lite, having dropped two others, the 296 & 696, in the last two years. The .44 Magnum chambers will take both the Special and Russians, albeit necessitating a good cleaning before a longer cartridge should be chambered.

Given a choice, I would always take the .45 Colt. It can be loaded ~200ft lb of KE for comfortable plinking with 200-255gr LRNFP's and up over 1,000ft lb for significant hunting lead (... or over 2100 ft lb for factory .454 Casull). I would have no problem loading anything in my Ruger 5.5" SS Bisley - I'd be more choosey with the 625MG - I just like it too well to risk 'hurting' it! I have shot thousands of rounds SA in BH's and Bisley's - and even more in that SRH and 625MG - and a Puma M1892 SS lever gun. I have never had an ejection problem, save some soft brass factory Hornady and MagTech .454's, but that is another story. My .45 Colt brass is 95+% Starline - most bought loaded (new) from Georgia Arms - and I now reload with a Dillon 550B - bought solely to reload .45 Colts. I had over 2700 empties I had saved, no telling how many I had given away, when I elected to 'roll my own'. I know several others who have started reloading - originally, as I did, for .45 Colt. My next revolver purchase will be another .45 Colt. It is old... but still viable today, whether PD, hunting, or, as I do, just plinking away!

Stainz

PS I won't ever blaspheme the .44 Russian - too many folks used it for good and evil, despite it's slightly lower 'power' than the .45 Colt. The usual 246gr lead of .430" was ahead of ~30gr of blackpowder - and used by sharpshooters (Annie Oakley, Buffaloe Bill, etc). Additionally, it was the first top-break S&W load - and could be reloaded and fired many times in the time a Peacemaker took to be reloaded. Interesting round... but try to find one - or a firearm so-chambered!

[Mike Irwin]

"I'd wager that Mike probably has some in his collection that he might be able to photograsph for us."

You'd win. Not sure of the age of them, though.

I do have a Benet-primed .45 S&W, but have never been able to track down a Benet-primed .45 LC.


"As for the popularity of the .45 Colt for reloaders... every serious .45 Colt shooter that I know personally reloads for it."

You had to, if you want anything other than 255-gr. bullet at 900 fps. You still have to if you want to be able to afford to shoot.

Ultimately, we're going to have to agree to disagree on the "revival" track for the .45 LC.

I don't think it's a coincidence that prior to the rise of CASS in this country there were what, perhaps 4 or 5 makers of SAA revolvers that chambered the round. Now, though? That situation is a LOT different.

[valnar]

Thanks to all the responses of my thread. I need to change topics slightly.

I don't reload and never will. So it seems like I should invest in a Single action .38/357 instead as it indeed would be cheaper.

If I decide to get into CAS, is that an acceptable caliber?

-Robert

[mtnbkr]

You had to, if you want anything other than 255-gr. bullet at 900 fps. You still have to if you want to be able to afford to shoot.

That's what drove my dad to reload. You can't find cheap (<$15) 45Colt ammo anywhere.


Chris

[Mike Irwin]

"I don't reload and never will."

Valnar,

I have to ask why?

You can get into reloading for a single caliber VERY cheaply, depending on how you approach it.

[mtnbkr]

So it seems like I should invest in a Single action .38/357 instead as it indeed would be cheaper. If I decide to get into CAS, is that an acceptable caliber

Definately on the first statement.

Regarding CAS, afaik, you can use 38/357. I know people that say they do.

Chris

[Mike Irwin]

.38 Spl. you can use, as I've seen Cowboy loads for the .38 Spl. at gunshows.

[citizen]

Hey, Mike-

Now you've got me curious.

If I WERE to start reloading .45 ONLY, how cheap is cheap????
I will say here I never have done any, and don't have the patience to perform klutz-prone manual disciplines repeatedly; which is why.
Is there an "efficient" and quick AND not expensive set-up to utilize???
Tell me more......

[BluesBear]

Dillon Square Deal B #B39-20051

Comes with factory adjusted dies.
see it here (http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=46&dyn=1&)

$277.95

You will NEVER regret it.

[citizen]

Thanks, BluesBear. I may have to get a catalogue.

AND I still want to hear from Mr. Irwin.

(What, am I nuts??:banghead: I can't afford to feed what I ALREADY have)

[BluesBear]

Citizen,

I started reloading in 1976 so I could afford to feed my Python & Mark IV Series 70. I started out on a Lyman Spar-T turret press. I figured it cost me about $500 back then to get started (I was making a whopping $3.50 per hour back then) and I still had to do every operation one step at a time. It was time consuming but I was amazed as to how easy it was. Even more it was FUN!

Trying different loads with all of those different bullets. It all just made shooting that much more fun.

Right now I am saving up for a Dillon XL650. It will be my Christmas present to myself. It would have been my Birthday present but a S&W 1917 got in the way.


I have plenty of Will Power.
I am just lacking in Won't Power.

[Mike Irwin]

Sorry, Citizen, didn't mean to ignore you.

OK, if you want to reload cheap, but functional, ammo you're looking at using Lee products.

Not the best in the world, but they're functional, servicable, and a good value.

If you want to go as inexpensively as possible, and don't mind that the production rate is going to be low as hell, you can use a Lee Loader.

http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1065592640.2025=dies-p4.html#LeeLoader

$20 list price.

All you need to add to that is a block of wood or a mallet to tap the cases into the die and seat the primer and bullet.

I turned out a lot of ammo over the years on these tools.

Add to that powder ($15 to $20), primers ($2.50 per hundred), cases (no clue how much they are, but say $8 per 100, and they get cheaper each time you reuse them), and bullets (probably about $32 per 500 for lead), and you can see that you can get into reloading pretty cheaply.

If you want to take a step up to a press, then you can get one of the Lee kits.

Here are some kit options, including the potential to get a free intro loading press. Scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page...

http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1065592640.2025=rlpress2.html


A lot of people say a lot of bad things about Lee products, but I've loaded thousands of rounds of ammo on a Lee Turret press, using Lee dies and a Lee powder measure.

It's not flashy, but it works, and works well.

So, you see, you don't have to spend a lot to get into reloading.

[Jim March]

If I may interject:

While the 45LC was making a slow comeback starting in the '60s, one thing that really advanced the round was the 1973 introduction of the 45LC in the Ruger "New Model" SA Blackhawk (aka "two screw"). It wasn't long after that that people like Linebaugh realized that this gun had just re-written the book on what the old warhorse 45 could do. Built on the same frame as the 44Mag *with the same metallurgy* (unlike S&W's N-frame 45LCs), the Rugers could equal or exceed the 44Mag but with better recoil handling and a heavier slug.

The same people buying those guns for hunting/bear defense also wanted milder practice/defense loads, esp. once the Redhawk in 45LC shipped with the same strength. That lead to the Winchester Silvertip as a good self defense round, others followed, and now with some very careful shopping, you CAN avoid handloading completely and not get completely creamed on ammo costs (no worse than 44Mag, IMHO).

SASS/CAS came along and "sealed the deal" on the LC's revival but it was in progress sooner and I think Ruger's role cannot be overestimated.

Sidenote: I call it the "45LC" for two reasons - one, there IS some historical grounds for doing so to distinguish from Schofield fodder and two, to separate it at the modern gun shop counter from 45ACP fodder! Nowdays, most people think the "long" is to differenciate from ACP. Just ask for "Colt 45" ammo at WallyWorld, and they'll hand you a box of that short rimless crap :D.

[citizen]

Thanks, Mike. Seems there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.
(Decisions, decisions, decisions.....)

BTW - You're STILL at the 'puter at THIS time of night??????:what:
(GO TO BED!!!!!!!!)

[Stainz]

I tired of the $22/box local price of .45 Colt plinkers - the excellent GA Arms all-new ammo was less, but took planning to keep in stock. Before I got 3/4 of the way through the 2700+ empties I had saved, the Dillon 550B and accessories were paid for. Now, every 500 rounds costs me <$40.

I just added .357/.38 to my capabilities - ~$85 for the 4-piece Lee dies and Dillon caliber kit, powder funnel, and toolhead. I bought a 500rd box of 158gr LSWC's at the local store for ~$15. Add 1/2 box of primers and 1/4 # of TiteGroup powder ~$12 and those 500 rounds will cost me 5.4 cents/each... add the cost of the new caliber goodies, and the cost is still $.224/round - about what Wally World ammo runs - and future .38's will be $.054/each. The economy appealed to me... and I swore at those reloading goodies tables at the gun shows for years - they could have had more guns for sale in their place! Now I look for them... go figure. I enjoy 'fine-tuning' my loads to my requirements, too. Sure, producing 1,000 rounds at one session does get monotonous - but even a modicum of common sense and attention will prevent problems. After ~10,000 rounds, I finally had a squib - a projectile stuck in my cylinder/forcing cone preventing the cylinder from turning. Forced back into the case by a brass rod, I took the case home only to find some unburned powder in the case - poor primer? In 1,000 CCI Blazer .44 Spcl factory ammo, I had 2 ftf and one split case. I like my reloads... in fact, it seems I shoot to reload now!

Stainz

[mtnbkr]

Another way to get into loading cheap is the Lee Handpress. Pricewise, it's between the Turret (Excellent low cost press btw) and the Lee Loader. That's how I got my dad hooked. I bought him a Handpress and 45Cot dies so he could do some of the loading while watching TV (sizing, priming, and crimping).

It worked. After using that for a few months, he realized the benefit of loading and moved to a Turret press. Now, he can use the hand press at the range to try new loads and test them immediately (outdoor range in the country...).

Chris

[Mike Irwin]

"BTW - You're STILL at the 'puter at THIS time of night??????
(GO TO BED!!!!!!!!)"

4 hours of sleep a night, every night.

It's the law...

[444]

I own a lot of handloading equipment, but that Lee handpress is a neat piece of gear. It is very inexpensive and I think it is a great way to get into handloading. It isn't fast, but it is convienient. I primarily use mine to size cases in front of the TV although I have taken it to work and snuck off into a dark corner to size cases. I have mainly used it in .223. Factory ammo in that caliber is very cheap, it costs about the same as handloading, but being a handloader I couldn't just leave the brass laying around. I figured if the price was the same the time taken to handload wasn't worth it, but if I could do it while I was relaxing in front of the TV, why not ? Back when all I had was a single stage press, I frequently sized and primed all my empty cases as time premitted. Then when I wanted to load some ammo, it was simple and fast since I had a big bag of sized and primed cases. Just add powder and bullet.
I think those handpresses go for less than $30. You would also need a set of dies and at least a powder scoop which I believe comes with Lee dies. There is a priming attachment for the handpress, which I have but have never tried. If you wanted to upgrade slowly, you could buy a powder scale, a handpriming tool, and a powder measure as time and funds dictate. Then if you ever decided to buy a bench mounted press you would have some of the items that you would use no matter how you eventually decided to load. The dies, priming tool, powder measure and scale would be just as useful if you ever decided to upgrade. Handloading does not have to be expensive or equipment intensive although it certainly can be if that is what you want.

After reading a recent thread on Elmer Keith, I ordered several of his books from Amazon. I am currently reading Sixgun Cartridges and Loads published in 1936. I found it amusing that he discusses many of the topics that come up on here. He even devoted a couple paragraphs to the small rim on the .45 Colt case. He talks about the weak factory loads in this caliber and the poor factory bullets. Something that I was surprised about is the power of the .45 Colt loaded with blackpowder. I believe he was using a 255 grain bullet loaded with 35 grains of FFFG blackpowder. He tells the tale of shooting a mountain goat. He hit it something like 10 or 12 times with some shots at 300 yards !!!!! He says every shot went right thorugh it-even the long range shots and blames the number of shots taken to bring it down on the poor bullet design used by the factory ammo. By the way, even in 1936 he uses the term .45 Colt and never mentions "Long".
I have gotten in numerous discussions about the .45 Colt and almost always had to specify that I was talking about the revolver cartridge and not .45 ACP. So, I guess there is a valid reason for using the term "long Colt". It gets on my nerves for some reason, but it makes sense from a communication standpoint.

[RWK]

FYI, Smith is currently producing wonderful, beautiful, a four-inch barrel, .45 Colt, Mountain Gun (the 625-9). I absolutely love mine: a work of art, very accurate, excellent quality/fit/finish, and employs the versatile .45 "long" Colt round.

Image of this revolver can be found in: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=43205

[Mike Irwin]

You know, I really don't know why people get such a case of ??? over whether it's .45 Long Colt, or .45 Colt.

Sit back for just a second and use the mush in the coconut that God gave us and THINK for a moment how many common cartridges there are that have two, three, or even more names that are variations on a theme!

9mm Luger
9x19
9mm Parabellum

Does that bother anyone?

8mm Mauser
7.92x57 Mauser

Ticked off?

.38 Special
.38 S&W Special
.38 Colt Special

Bugged yet?

9mm Makarov
9x18

Eyes bulging, bloodpressure increasing?

.45 Auto
.45 ACP
.45 Colt Automatic

Steam coming out your ears?

.45 Colt
.45 Long Colt
.45, Model of 1873 (I saw that reference once, a long time ago, and it was referring to the ammunition, but it's not common. Just a toss in.).

BLAM!

Huh. Looks like the tops of several skulls have blown out...

[mtnbkr]

LOL@Mike

Wanna really get into an arguement about 45Colt vs 45 LONG Colt? Go over to sixgunner.com and tell them it's a looonnnnnggg Colt.

:D

Chris

[Mike Irwin]

You know, one of these days I'm going to track down and scan or photograph some of the early Colt advertising that refers to it as the .45 Long Colt just to listen to the choking, sputtering, and pissing and moaning.

[Old Fuff]

I think the term "Long Colt" came into general use after World War Two when dealers wanted to be sure what the customer wanted - the "long" cartridge for a revolver or the "short" one for a pistol. In this context the use of "long" makes sense.

[444]

Does that bother anyone?
No
Ticked off?
No
Bugged yet?
No
Eyes bulging, bloodpressure increasing?
Not at all.


45 Colt
.45 Long Colt
.45, Model of 1873
:cuss: :banghead: :fire:

[Mike Irwin]

:what: :scrutiny: :rolleyes: :barf:

[WESHOOT2]

There are pictures of ammo boxes printed with "Long Colt"........

[Stainz]

I was reminded of another Dillon benefit yesterday - it came in the mail. Another monthly installment of their catalog, 'The Blue Press', arrived. This one, the November issue, has a nice picture on the cover, as usual. By golly, a friend was correct... she is holding a firearm! How long have they been doing that? I may have to look at the older issues to see if they have some on them as well.

Oh yeah, they have reloading stuff inside - and some shooting accessories... or so I am told.

Stainz

[Mike Irwin]

Someone told me once that when he started publishing Blue Press that all of the models were company employees...