[MCgunner]

How many BP shooters think of their firearms as political, Obama time, SHTF fall back weapons? I mean, I've been thinkin' about survival lately as my IRAs shrink and the outlook of higher energy prices possible gasoline shortages loom on the horizon and social security will probably be bankrupt in 6 years when I'll be eligible considering the way they're throwing away money left and right in DC lately. Everything I have, such as it is, is paid for. I worked hard all my life just for now, so I could retire and enjoy myself, and now it looks like I'm going to be in survival mode until I croak. Owning a home, land, I'm ineligible for food stamps. I can't go the suck on the government tit, route. I'm in partial retirement and the IRA payments meet the bills....so far. But, I get to thinkin' about how bad it could get. Maybe I should quit listening to Glen Beck, don't know. :banghead:

Anyway, so, I'm thinkin' the what ifs. What if I need a firearm to hunt with and I ain't got ammo. Now, I have a lot of ammo, but there could come a time. I can figure out how to make BP, maybe, but I don't know about getting the chemicals. BP is a little more ban resistant, at least, than cartridge guns. Now, I don't have a shotgun, just a .50 Hawken Hunter Carbine, a Ruger OA, and a .31 pocket remington to carry if needed. I can make my own percussion caps. I'll have to prime below the nipple on the Hawken to get 'em to work, though, but they work fantastic in the ROA and it's a danged accurate hunting pistol that I can conceal under my hunting coat if need be. It shoots HARD with 220 grain cast conicals, too.

I'd thought about maybe a crossbow. I have a recurve I can bow fish with, but normally don't shoot well with a bow being right handed and left eye dominant, not well enough to hunt with. I'm collecting fishing tackle right now. My main protein supply will be the bay and I'm riggin' my kayak with outriggers and will soon get a sail kit for it. I'll be able to get around on the water. I have motorcycles, a little 200 that gets 80 mpg, and can drag the yak to the water if needed.

Anyway, is anyone else thinkin' paranoid like this? Do you see your BP stuff as possible only thing left survival tools? I sure hope it don't come to all that, but the current political situation has me paranoid as hell, like I've never been before. It's scary. Maybe I just need to stock up on Pyrodex. That's the toughest thing I can see to acquire is powder. I might not be able to make the caps, though, if toy guns are outlawed. :rolleyes: :banghead: I suppose a good way to go is just don't shoot BP so much. Hog the stuff for the future. If we can get through this without BP being outlawed, I'll be amazed, frankly. Trapping is always an option, I guess. I have a hog trap and it works.

[VegasOPM]

Well I do know that a lot of folks in Appalachia made it through the Great Depression with the help of Flintlock rifles. The nice thing is that everything can be found or made by an individual. Buy the Foxfire books and they tell you how the hill folk would make saltpetre out of urine or cave dirt. Then add sulfur and charcoal to make blackpowder- then mix with water to cake it for more power. They would knap their own flints, mold bullets or shot and they could feed their families without having to buy anything. The mainspring and the sear are pretty much the only parts that will wear out.

[scrat]

hahahahah thats why im glad we had that discussion last year on making black powder.

[MCgunner]

Well, the urine thing I know about. It was the source of KNO3 for the Chinese, originally. However, not living near any volcanoes, sulfur would have to be bought at the feed store, perhaps. I already cast. Hmm, flintlocks. A flintlock shotgun would be a cool addition to my survival kit.

Oh, I have an air rifle and it works on squirrel and doves and other small edibles that exist around here.:D I'm into edible plants, too.

If I'm going to get into making BP, I'm going to need some seives.

[Tommygunn]

Geesh. As much as I love black powder, I'd hate to have to resort to the use of them for a SHTF situation.

What I really look forward to is trying to go up against a bunch of goons armed with MP5s or M-4s when I have a Colt 1860.
Sounds like fun.:uhoh::uhoh:

Uh uh. I'll take my Bushmaster M4orgery or the M-1 Carbine I inherited from my father ... or even my Winchester 94 .30-30 first.

[goon]

In my area we unfortunately have a lot of pollution from abandoned strip mines.
Some of that water is polluted with sulphur - maybe that would be a source if you could figure out a way to extract it.
Or buy some black powder now. Black powder keeps very well if you keep it cool and dry. IIRC, they just found a 200 year old store of BP in England that hadn't lost any potency when it was tested.
I have several flintlocks on my wish list but one that I'd really like to have is a 20 gauge fowler. IIRC, there were also some 12 gauge barrels made to snap right on to some T/C's a few years back.

[W.E.G.]

Black powder gun for SHTF?

Yeah sure.

So long as you only need to defend yourself against one guy who is a lousy shot, and only armed with a bow and arrow.

Otherwise, you're dead.

[goon]

Actually, if you're facing a man armed with a bow and arrow you had better hope he only has one arrow left.
Bows offer a way faster second shot than a muzzleloader.

But a flintlock still doesn't take a whole lot of overhead to keep working. A fowler with a spare frizzen could probably keep going for a long time.
And if you need an excuse to buy another gun, "preparedness" is a good excuse.

[Shotgun Willy]

Black powder gun for SHTF?

Yeah sure.


I don't see why not. I seem to remember the allies dropped tons of single shot .45 Liberator pistols, or whatever they called 'em. The idea was to walk up behind Fritz, blow his head off, and then go home and clean the blood off of your new Mauser.
I can't help but think one of my Colts would do the job, even better than that little hand breaker.

[Mp7]

..eh... nice idea, but a good bow and a stash of good arrowtips and strings
would be wayyyy better in case SHTF.

a bow is almost a machine gun - compared to a flintlock.

i guess a good bow... Longbow... Mongolian-recurve
and materials for building spudguns.

Way easier to use and maintain and feed than a BP gun.

An army of Musketwielders against bow-armed indians = win.

one Musketeer against one indian = fail


Just my 02$.

[Voodoochile]

..eh... nice idea, but a good bow and a stash of good arrowtips and strings
would be wayyyy better in case SHTF.

a bow is almost a machine gun - compared to a flintlock.

i guess a good bow... Longbow... Mongolian-recurve
and materials for building spudguns.

Way easier to use and maintain and feed than a BP gun.

An army of Musketwielders against bow-armed indians = win.

one Musketeer against one indian = fail


Just my 02$.

My thoughts exactly, I shoot archery as much if not more than my black powder arms & for the past 2 years I've regained a intrest in Traditional Archery.
For taking Deer, bear, and hogs, a 40 to 55 pound Recurve is plenty & a modern compound bow is even capable of more with easier pull, keep a bunch of arrows for target & hunting & your neighbor won't know that you shot that deer in his back yard & keep the black powder arm at the ready when 2 legged creatures come a knocking.

At this time I can take my 2 60# compound bows with the 3 dozzen arrows for them & place broad heads into a 6" group at 60 yards, my 45# recurve I'm still working on that but I'm not a slouch shot with that either out to 20 yards.

[MCgunner]

Why does everyone think killing people or going to war is SHTF? I'm just talkin' about food gathering in the future and, to an extent, concealed carry alternatives in a no guns world when all my 9x19 is gone if I live that long. What I'm worried about is a totalitarian political state where cartridge guns are outlawed and everyone is forced to be a ward of the state. We're on the fast track to that, now. The country voted this moron and his cronies into officse. It doesn't give me great confidence that the average citizen, dumb as a fence post if he can vote this way in the first place, will be revolutionary. Nope, it's everyone for himself. I live in the country, well, small town in a rural county, so I'm a leg up on survival I suppose to all the metro types that worry about their street gangs gone wild. I live next to the bay, too, which gives me advantages until a hurricane comes. LOL

If I have to go to war, I'll take my .308 and kill somebody with an AR15 at 500 yards and take his gun and ammo. I'll only need one shot. :D I mean, if it's THAT bad, "Low, though I walk though the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, 'cause I'm the baddest SOB in the valley."

If guns and ammo are outlawed or otherwise hard to get, I'll have my stash stashed. I won't wanna be hunting with any of 'em. Hopefully, at least pyrodex will be available if I run out, LOL. If not, well, there's always the fishing. I'll be damned if they're going to force me to be a vegetarian! Hard to say what they'll do when you have nut cases like Pelosi in power. Their strings are pulled by the radical enviro-left. Maybe there'll be a backlash when they outlaw hamburgers. Even the NYC types want their burgers. They probably don't allow burgers in San Fransisco, but hey, that's only one city. Unfortunately, they seem to be in control of the whole nation right now.

Me and bows don't work. I'm practically blind in my right eye and while I can shoot left handed just fine with a rifle and shoot right handed with my left eye with handguns, I don't do well with bows as in can't hit squat at 20 yards. I bowfished for a while, hit about 1 in 50 shots. :rolleyes: Nope, I ain't Rambo. I have been giving thought to the crossbow thing, though. There's a recurve crossbow at Academy, 150 lb draw weight, 16" length of pull, for 175 bucks. I could at least rig it with a reel and shoot flounders with it. :D I could probably get good enough to deer hunt with that. Air guns work for small game. Now, if I could just find a .177 pellet mold. :D

[Voodoochile]

Why does everyone think killing people or going to war is SHTF? I'm just talkin' about food gathering in the future and, to an extent, concealed carry alternatives in a no guns world when all my 9x19 is gone if I live that long. What I'm worried about is a totalitarian political state where cartridge guns are outlawed and everyone is forced to be a ward of the state. We're on the fast track to that, now. The country voted this moron and his cronies into officse. It doesn't give me great confidence that the average citizen, dumb as a fence post if he can vote this way in the first place, will be revolutionary. Nope, it's everyone for himself. I live in the country, well, small town in a rural county, so I'm a leg up on survival I suppose to all the metro types that worry about their street gangs gone wild. I live next to the bay, too, which gives me advantages until a hurricane comes. LOL

If I have to go to war, I'll take my .308 and kill somebody with an AR15 at 500 yards and take his gun and ammo. I'll only need one shot. I mean, if it's THAT bad, "Low, though I walk though the valley of death, I shall fear no evil, 'cause I'm the baddest SOB in the valley."

If guns and ammo are outlawed or otherwise hard to get, I'll have my stash stashed. I won't wanna be hunting with any of 'em. Hopefully, at least pyrodex will be available if I run out, LOL. If not, well, there's always the fishing. I'll be damned if they're going to force me to be a vegetarian! Hard to say what they'll do when you have nut cases like Pelosi in power. Their strings are pulled by the radical enviro-left. Maybe there'll be a backlash when they outlaw hamburgers. Even the NYC types want their burgers. They probably don't allow burgers in San Fransisco, but hey, that's only one city. Unfortunately, they seem to be in control of the whole nation right now.

Me and bows don't work. I'm practically blind in my right eye and while I can shoot left handed just fine with a rifle and shoot right handed with my left eye with handguns, I don't do well with bows as in can't hit squat at 20 yards. I bowfished for a while, hit about 1 in 50 shots. Nope, I ain't Rambo. I have been giving thought to the crossbow thing, though. There's a recurve crossbow at Academy, 150 lb draw weight, 16" length of pull, for 175 bucks. I could at least rig it with a reel and shoot flounders with it. I could probably get good enough to deer hunt with that. Air guns work for small game. Now, if I could just find a .177 pellet mold.

Just so you know, I didn't mean to use any firearm to shoot at any one "unless it is necessary" but given the way the economy & our present government is looking I agree, some preparedness is in order & my thoughts on the Archery gear instead of a black powder firearm is that if it did come to worse situations with archery gear "including a crossbow" you can take a nice sized deer to feed the family & friends at a resonable distance & still not be detected & keep the firearms hidden away for the times when it gets really rough.

Now I'm not saying to do anything illegal but there are those that would like to take away our hunting priviledges too & there are those that would exploit the possibility of harvesting what another has worked hard to get.

[MCgunner]

A crossbow had an advantage, silence. :D There's lots of hogs around here and a crossbow could take one, night or day. Also a bit better in wet weather, wet kayak ride compatible. Hmmm....

Well, just thinkin' about all this and appreciate any and all input. I might post a crossbow question on the non-firearms weapons board. Ya know, I'm a law abiding citizen, especially where game laws are concerned, but if hunting is outlawed, I'll be an outlaw, especially if it concerns survival. I'm planning trot lines in the bay, too, and that's illegal now. I'm not going to do it unless all this comes about. I'd also like to get a gill net. A gill net can feed you big time.

[MCgunner]

Well, just increased my survival capabilities. I got two gill nets, 12x7, off Ebay for 12 bucks a piece. :D They're only 2 1/2" stretch mesh, but that's big enough for catfish (spines get tangled) and some smaller edibles like sand trout and whiting as well as bait fish. I'll have to rig the float and weight lines, no big deal. I also have window weights to set 'em. Illegal, of course, but if I have to have the protein......

[Elbert P . Suggins]

I suppose I have been waiting for a post like this for the past 10 years. I fell for Y2K! Yep I did! Bought the water filtrating purifier, cook stove, wired the electric panel for a 5000 watt generator, 2000 gal. cistern, built an out house,10 cases powdered milk, 2 years supply canned goods, every garden seed known to man, Spam up the yinyangs, and enough 06 ammo to feed 3 M1 Garands for 5 hours straight. There I confessed and I feel much better.

But let me tell ya, in the last year and especially the last two months, I am more concerned than ever about personal survival. This is more serious than computers going udders up, I really think some dangerous things have the potential of happening in the coming days. We are definitely headed for a situation where survival for our families and ourselves will come to the front of the line. Unemployment insurance will run out and if you don't think so than guess again. Jobless rate could hit as high as 15 to 20%. Even in parts of Oregon canned goods on the shelves are never stalked full.

And we have the anti-gunners throwing everything at us. IDed ammo and even talk of 90 day powder. What in the hell is that all about? They need to track ownership of gunowners. How many are owned and how much! It is called control. Control of the sheep. I own 22 handguns and 33 longguns. And that amount is made up of 3 Remingtons, 3 Colts, 1 ROA, 1 58 cal. Zouave and 1 Thompson 50. flintlock. I load 45 LC and 38 cartridge with Goex BP for other Colts and Ubertis. Personally I think at this stage of the game the BP powder weapons are very important to own.

I live out in the country on a deadend road 40 miles from the nearest town which to me is an advantage. But if officials are coming after my weapons they are only getting the ones I know are registered and they will not find the other ones including all the BPs. I'm not doing battle out in the middle of the road with them. I hate to think about scenarios such as this but they could be very real in the near future.

But to go thru al this and not be personally armed is totally insane. You will have those that are looking for drugs and those that are after money and things to sell so they can get drugs. These are the ones that you might have to defend your self with. None of us want or look forward to killing someone but we NEED to protect ourselves and our families.

I need to finish this with a true story that you can relate to. I knew personally an elderly retired couple in Pomeroy, Washington several years ago that lived along US 12 about 4 miles out of town. One night there was a knock on the door and they answered it only to find a young scruffy guy looking for drugs on the other side who then pushed himself inside and confronted them with a 22 automatic. Mr. ### attempted to wrestle the gun away after the guy shot MRS. ###. Mr. ### was also shot twice during the struggle but he managed to get the gun from the intruder and shot him in the chest. Even being in their seventies, this couple survived the attack along with the crazed druggy who still probably is in the Washington State Pen.

[Voodoochile]

What you say is very well real & possible & God help if I did have to defend my family which I hope I never need to do but like you I'm prepared & am still preparing for the time when it does come to us all havin to hunker down & feed our own & keep the wolves at bay.

[sltm1]

In the SHTF scenario, I think one should try to stock up on medical supplies first. It's Murphy's Law that whatever you're prepared for won't happen till the opposite does first. It comes down to air, water, food, in that order and the ability to use those items is contingent on your health. BP for protection? Sure, someone mentioned street punks with semi autos, big deal, do they practice with them like we do? No, so if you just just keep your head under fire, you'll win out cause you'll aim rather than spray and pray. I read somewhere approx 238fps is lethal force with a projectile, bp does that just fine. Bow's and arrows are an extremely limited option unless you can make your own strings, shafts etc. Remember, in a 20" confrontation, a knife is quicker than a gun! I could go on and on with "what if's" but the question was about bp so I'll put a cork in it here.

[drftrman]

I actually keep my 1858 NMA loaded for home defense (also a short dbl.). I have several modern handguns, but I can't use a .45 auto in the house for fear of the bullet traveling through walls and hitting my children or a neighbors house. Also if I have take someone down my .45 will be confiscated until it's all sorted out, and I may even lose it entirely. My remmy will get the job done in close quarters, and I don't have to worry as much about innocents. If nothing else the flash and noise will scare the sh%^ out of him:) And if they take it so what, better my $250 Pietta instead of my $1000 Kimber!

If the liberals have there way with our guns, home invasions will rise dramatically. One guy with a ball bat or knife doesn't have much of a chance against 3 or 4 hoodlums. A BP revolver is way better than nothing.

[Elbert P . Suggins]

Ya know drftrman, since I bought a SS Ruger Old Army a few months back I haven't had one cap jam, misfire or any of the rest of BP pistol problems that pop up. I keep it loaded all the time and it fires every time. I use .457 balls with 35 grains of Goex which makes a hefty fast knockdown load. I would carry this Ruger all the time if it didn't weigh so much. I bought 15 lbs. of powder with a 2000 rounds of roundball with same number of Remmie caps. The longer I own and shoot this Ruger the better I like it. Accurate as anything I have!

[mykeal]

I can't use a .45 auto in the house for fear of the bullet traveling through walls and hitting my children or a neighbors house... My remmy will get the job done in close quarters, and I don't have to worry as much about innocents.
You really need to rethink this. Yes, the bp ball has considerably less energy than a smokeless .45, but two layers of drywall are no significant barrier. You have just as much a problem inside your house with the bp gun as with the .45 semiauto.

[4v50 Gary]

A blackpowder gun beats a sharp stick but I'd rather go smokeless (yes, I'm a sinner).

[husker]

its not the ball that kills ya its the gang green days later. its not a bad idea to have smokless and BP and bows and arrows, now lets play cowboys and Indians.

[husker]

i better through in tomahawks and bowie knives, throwing stars,blow darts. O -YA i had a blow dart set up as a kid till i took the pin out of the ball and blew it at the paper boy cracking him in the head and knocking him off his bike. then dad cracked me in the head several times and snaped the blow gun over his leg.

[Voodoochile]

My Tomy hawk ;) is my camp ax.

[MCgunner]

One good thing about hoggin' pyrodex, I can use it in my .45 colt in a pinch if I run out of unique. :D Need large pistol primers, of course.

[Elbert P . Suggins]

And 3f BP works great also in 45 LC. Which reminds me I just bought 2 lbs. of European BP for $13.50 a .lb. Haven't picked it up yet so don't know what brand it is. You can't have too much of this stuff but it's best not to store it all in one part of your house. In case of fire you want one end of your soon to be destroyed house to lift the same height as the other half.

[Tommygunn]

in case of fire you want one end of your soon to be destroyed house to lift the same height as the other half.

:D lol You owe me a new keyboard . . . .

[Smokin_Gun]

you can't have too much of this stuff but it's best not to store it all in one part of your house. In case of fire you want one end of your soon to be destroyed house to lift the same height as the other half.

l.m.b.p.a.o.

LMBPAO!!!

[Guvnor]

Interesting thread. How long does black powder keep its effectiveness anyway? Like say I kept a few unopened cans of goex tucked away in a .50 cal ammo can somewhere?

[Shultzhaus]

So long as the can lid is tight, and no moisture gets in, BP will last many years. A man gave me a half can from his reenactment days, which he said was 30 years old. I used it, and when it was gone, and I opened a new can, I could not tell the difference in performance.

[packarat]

My answer to your question is yes, I purchased mine for this reason.

I purchased a Pietta '58 NMA about a year ago. My thought at the time was; what do I do when I have run out of case ammo?

I live in So Cal, I'm not old enough for the watts riots but lived through the "Rodney riots" and the every day thugs. I have seen enough damage to understand that I need to be ready for anything at any time. Now that I have a family any global or local "threat" worries me. Before I had a family I just partied, tried to avoid the road blocks, keep myself out of trouble and try to stay out of the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't see myself as becoming a gunslinger, using a weapon to pave my way. It is more of a boy scout thing in always being prepared.

As I said above this was my reason for the purchase, however I have found it is my favorite weapon to shoot. I'm not sure what it is about the gun; the tremendous amount of smoke is spews, the sound or that it is just exciting shooting something that was developed almost 150 years old.

I am only sharing my story of why I wanted this gun. Now onto the particulars of my thought process for the fictitional breakdown of society.

What happens when I run out of my case ammo then out of my stash of Pyrodex? Well there are only three components to black powder: sulpher, charcoal and potassium nitrate. I can find sulfur and potassium nitrate at a local drugstore (If we run into this situation your average citzen would overlook these items and scanvenge the beef-a-roni). Charcoal can be made using a fire pit. Lead can be found almost anywhere.

What would be lacking is a firearm capable of using this concoction. Buying the BP pistol, I believe, was my most important purchase of the last couple of years. This is of course outside of first aid and water/food storage.

I'm not a survivalist or fantasy zombie killer (although the latter could be fun). Like I said above I just want to be prepared.

[StrawHat]

And if they take it so what, better my $250 Pietta instead of my $1000 Kimber!

For those of you who may not be aware of it, if you use a firearm and they feel the need to confiscate it, they do NOT stop at one. Every firearm in your house will be taken. Regardless of age or ownership.

[krazy4krags]

I am reminded of scenes from the movie "Red Dawn" as I read all your posts. It seems that a well prepared man can protect his family better than one who is unprepared. I also seem to remember a scene from the aforementioned movie where the invading forces knew they could find out who owned firearms by looking up the federal form 4473. I feel the fire building within my soul as I continue to think about the mess that this country seems to be spiraling towards. It is refreshing to find that there are more out there who share my sentiments and my patriotism. It will be our kind that will make a stand for those who are too meek or ill-prepared to rise to the occasion that may one day engulf the United States in what could be it's second Civil War. After all, we are talking about protecting the lifestyle of freedom that we enjoy, and this time it will keep the union from making slaves of citizens.

Make no mistake that a muzzleloader of good quality can make a killing, literally, but the shooter is more elemental to it's success. There are two kinds of people that will arise in the maelstrom that looks to be coming: trained and untrained. Remember, should it come to it, you are facing the best trained military in the world and while many among their ranks will likely fall out and join the patriots, there will be enough who will blindly follow our beloved Obama-mamba-jamba to make this country the socialist-nest that the rest of the world seems inclined to coax it into. IF you expect to live long with your muzzleloader (should that be all you can put your hands on) I would hope that you have become very proficient with it. Every gun shoots slightly different and when it comes to muzzleloaders consistency of loading is also key. I am reminded of the old axiom: beware the man who owns only one rifle...for he knows how to use it!

Best Regards!

[4v50 Gary]

No doubt a bullet fired from a smokepole will kill just as readily today as it did centuries ago. Therein lies the problem. They don't call them smokepoles for nothing. One shot and you're likely to be detected and then it's mortar fire, helicopter gunships, tank shells and maybe even a laser guided missle fired from some drone piloted from thousands of miles away.

[.45Guy]

They don't call them smokepoles for nothing.

A couple of cotton balls and a simple nitration process would solve that. H2SO4 and HNO3 are pretty easily aquired as well.

[.45Guy]

Also, you'd have 1/3 of the requisites to manufacture fulminate for caps.

[Shotgun Willy]

Leaving aside the whole I"m-gonna-commit-suicide-by-firing-on-the-military thing, and going with just survival, caps are the real bottle neck. Making your own powder and casting your own balls, is not hard. It's the caps, that are going to be in short supply. Luckily, they're small, inexpensive, and readily available...now.

[MCgunner]

As long as I can get cap gun roll caps at Walmart, I'll make my own caps. To me, it's the powder that's the hang up. I can char wood, I think I can get sulfur, maybe, at the feed store, but Potassium Nitrate is the killer if I can't order it in the future. I have a web site bookmarked where to get it, but not sure that'll be available. So, I guess I'll save some pee and do some research if it comes to that. ROFL!

[Shotgun Willy]

Potassium nitrate is readily available, in the form of Hi-Yield brand stump killer. According to their website, it's 95.5 - 99.2% KNO3.

[DoubleDeuce 1]

I have been reading this thread and have just got to ask, what does SHTF stand for anyway ?:confused:

[Jefferson Herb]

s... hits the fan

[DoubleDeuce 1]

Thanks Jeff, I wasn't sure... I didn't want to appear really stoopid.:cool:

[MCgunner]

Potassium nitrate is readily available, in the form of Hi-Yield brand stump killer. According to their website, it's 95.5 - 99.2% KNO3.

Cool. Thanks. I'll commit that to memory....and notebook file since my memory ain't so great.

[MCgunner]

I've got a bunch of stuff filed already, how to make the charcoal and from what (soft woods) and such. I'm going to get me some sieves. Anyone got a good source for sieves?

[drftrman]

While it is true that firing on the military would be suicide, in a society meltdown situation I have several defense skills to hopefully keep me healthy. The most I would use a BP for is to get myself something to eat, or maybe a better weapon if need be.

[Pizzagunner]

It would seem a better long range plan would be to experiment making BP cartridges for calibers that had their origins turn at the dawn of the smokeless era. Primers can be bought in the thousands relatively cheaply and are easily transported. A bullet mold for lead, and voila, BP without the muzzleloader or slow to reload SA revolver's limitations.

.45/70, .30-30, .38 Special/.357 Magnum. .44/40, 12ga., even .45ACP, can be loaded with BP and still get acceptable performance, though for the BP rounds, a lever rifle, bolt action, pump, or a DA revolver would be the best bet for function. Interesting topic.

[MCgunner]

It would seem a better long range plan would be to experiment making BP cartridges for calibers that had their origins turn at the dawn of the smokeless era. Primers can be bought in the thousands relatively cheaply and are easily transported. A bullet mold for lead, and voila, BP without the muzzleloader or slow to reload SA revolver's limitations.

True enough, but you still need cases and primers. Cases don't last forever. Now, I can make my own percussion caps. I have a little tool that punches #11 caps out of coke cans and I stuff several roll cap centers into that. It actually seems to work BETTER than normal caps on my Ruger Old Army. Don't seem to have enough flame for the Hawken and I've spied a 50 cal inline I like that I might get, CVA Elkhorn, comes with a No. 11 nipple AND ability to use 209 primers, that might work better with my home made caps. It has removable breach plug and stainless barrel that attract me, too. I like the ol' Hawken, but inlines have their advantages. Besides, I'm running out of excuses to buy new firearms and this is as good as any at this point. :D

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_64181_425010001_425000000_425010000_425-10-1

[sltm1]

Mcgunner, where'd you get that punch for making caps? And what size do they seem to be? Thanks.

[RSVP2RIP]

The punch is the Forster Tap-O-Cap and it is not the best option for most aplications IMO. For the price of the thing you can get 1000 caps and squirrel them away. It may or may not work for your guns/nipples. If there was a reliable way to make an impact sensitive explosive in home, then it would be great. But seeing as you have to use toy roll caps...good luck. I have one but am not done goofing around with it, else I'd cut ya a deal you couldn't refuse. I got mine form Lock, Stock and Barrel http://www.lockstock.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FRTC1000. They fit real good on #10 and #11 Nipples as they are kinda folded into shape.

[BullpupBen]

I have to agree that blackpowder deserves a lot of consideration as a SHTF gun. This is for one main reason: You can make all the and bullets, brass, and perhaps even powder you want, but how do you intend to get primers when SHTF?

[roscoe]

You could always go old school and make your own fulminate of mercury for the Tap-o-Cap primers. I really want to try this, but it is plenty toxic. It does not appear difficult if you have some way of controlling the fumes. You do need access to chemicals, no doubt.