[NewShooter78]

So while I was out and about today I decided to go visit a local gunstore to take another look at a FN-FAL I saw last week. It's a sporter version, comes w/2 mags, has black handguard, and wood stock. It looks really clean with only slight wear marks from the charging handle, but that's because it has been refinished recently. It looks really nice, except for a grenade launcher flip up sight (it doens't have the grenade launcher attachment on the barrel). The price is 550, but I might be able to work on that a little bit. I'll also see if I can trade towards it with my old handgun, since I'm getting a new Colt Ser. 80.

I know many of you out there really like FAL type rifles, and because of your infectious dialogue I'm really wanting one now. So what do ya'll think of that price? Seems pretty good for local pricing. The only other FAL type I've seen in town is a $500 G-3 that looks like its been around the block more than a few times.

And if I get that I'll only need to get a 22lr to fullfill my must have guns list.

[iamkris]

Well, I'm not an FAL expert having only become interested in them this year, but its not clear there's enough info here to give a judgement.

I'm assuming when you say "sporter" you mean that its not an original. After that, you need to specify what kind of receiver it has. DSA, Imbel, Century, FAC, Coonan, Williams or other? Those can make a HUGE difference in the perceived "goodness".

Inch or metric? Mixed? A lot of the Century and lesser guns are a mix-match of differnt parts versus being built up from a pure L1A1 or STG or other part set.

Black handguard and wood stock. I'll let the experts chime in but I'm assuing that means you have a mixed of Israeli or L1A1 stocks?

Who built it? One of the reputable firms (DSA, ARS, Ohio Rapid, Enterprise, or other) or was it a WECSOG (some good, some bad). Until I know those things, I couldn't give you an honest opinion. At minimum, if you decide to buy this, make sure you get a chance to test fire it.

BTW, $550 will get you a brand new STG58C parts gun from Enterpise or Ohio Rapid Fire (who are having a sale right now). A Century G3 should go for no more than $450-500 in as delivered condition from Century. I bought mine from a gun show this spring for $420 out the door. I just got a DSA STG58A from the factory through my FFL for $795.

[NewShooter78]

I don't know all the specifics yet, becaue the guys at the store don't know all that much about the gun. But they do have a shoot it before you buy it policiy. But that is only so good because they only have an indoor 25 yrd range.

[Nightcrawler]

Check out the receiver, see who made it. But for $550.00, it's almost certainly a Century. They can be hit or miss.

Check The FAL Files (http://www.falfiles.com) for more info.

[Atticus]

"I don't know all the specifics yet, becaue the guys at the store don't know all that much about the gun. "

That would send a red flag up for me. I don't know how well you know the dealer, but when they say they don't know something about a gun, it usually means they are trying not to lie about something. My guess is that it is a Century. The quality of Century builds can be real hit or miss.

[NewShooter78]

The gun at the second store I mentioned is a Century build, that I know. But if I seriously want to buy the gun, I'm going to make sure I talk to the shop owner first. I'm sure he has all the nitty-gritty on the gun. Once I can shoot it, I'll make sure I post the outcome.

[hillbilly]

Getting to shoot it first will help a lot.

Some Century builds are complete crap.

Some Century builds turn out to be great buys for the money.

Is it a metric or Inch pattern? Metric pattern mags are very cheap and available.

I've got a FAL.....I built an Austrian STG-58 kit on an Imbel reciever.

Yee-haw, indeed.

I love FALs.....94 countries can't be completely wrong.

hillbilly

[telewinz]

"Some Century builds are complete crap. Some Century builds turn out to be great buys for the money."

Hillbilly (and others) said it right Century built guns are very much hit or miss. Mine is a Century with an IMBEL receiver, I love it and it was a great buy at $450 (all metric parts). If you cannot hand inspect or are not sure of what to look for STAY AWAY FROM CENTURY. If you can get an IMBEL do so, they were licensed to build FAL's and they have an excellent (known) reputation for #1 quality that rivals any manufacturer

[MuzzleBlast]

I've got a FAL.....I built an Austrian STG-58 kit on an Imbel reciever.You got a receiver wrench? Might need to borry that from you some time...

[hillbilly]

No, don't have a receiver wrench.

I paid a professional gunsmith to do the final tightening on the barrel to receiver fit. I wanted someone with headspace gauges to do that part to make sure I had a rifle and not a bomb.

The only thing I didn't build was the barrel to receiver.

The kit I got was broken all the way down to the individual roll pins.

I also bought all my stupid compliance parts....handguards, hammer, trigger, sear, cocking lever, and pistol grip and put them on, too.

In fact, I wound up buying a whole other completed lower receiver unit just to have a model for how the parts went together.

Sold that extra lower afterwards.

hillbilly

[cabinetman]

I've got a CIA L1A1 and it is nothing short of perfect. With a little work, I converted it into a New Zealand AF issue all properly done except for the receiver, of course. I've attached a photo.


Allow me tell you something important, however. The FAL is considered an 'assault rifle" and falls under the 922r regs and you MUST.....and I mean MUST get assurances from the seller that this rifle is "legal". It MUST have at least 7 US made parts. Here's an example:

Receiver,
Muzzle Comp
Hammer
Trigger
Sear
Gas Piston
Charging Handle
or Mags have US made floor plates.

If the seller can not or won't guarantee compliance in writing, and identifying the parts, then you'd better think twice about buying it. Legally, it could be immediately confiscated as being "out of compliance" and not having enough US made parts. And, those parts are clearly identified. There are 20 assault rifle parts identified as critical by the BATFE. The L1A1/FAL only has 17 of them, however. Since you are only allowed 10 foreign parts, you have to have 7 US made parts.

I had the chance to buy a beautiful Izzy at the Louisville Gun Show last Fall. I was drooling over it....really. But the seller didn't know what I was talking about when it came to compliance. There we were out in the lobby with cops and probably ATF guys milling around. All I could see was getting burned. I walked away.

Sorry for being such a wet blanket but I'd just hate to see you get stuck. Sure, you could buy it but you'd have to retro it properly and spend the buck but in the meantime, you'd have an "illegal firearm".

Finally, these rifles CAN NOT have an authentic flash hider in any way at any time. You CAN neuter an original or even install a "fake" authentic looking one but the original is not allowed. The CIA rifle probably has the CIA comp on it anyway which works just fine. When the AWB goes away, you'll be able to retro one legally.

As for performance, the guys have it right. The latest iteration of the receiver get high marks for fit, finish, and performance. Early issues (especially the HESSE) were not good. Try to determine how old that rifle is. If there is a wood stock on it, chances are someone has fiddled with it and may have gotten rid of it because it doesn't feed properly.

Last but not least the latest version of the CIA FAL Sporter takes INCH mags.....nothing else. Some guys say the metics work but they slop around in the mag well. The inch mags are nice and tight. Early versions did accept the metric mags better that the later versions.

These are just some of the things you should know. I love my FAL and it is always with me when I go to the range. It's accurate, handsome, and a real blast to own.

Rome

[JShirley]

Very sweet. Love my G1, but I need to get a shorter buttstock.

[NewShooter78]

Looks like I've got some homework to do on Wed. before I think about buying said rifle. But that's why I love this forum. :evil:

[cabinetman]

It's why I like this and other forums, too. You are presented with tons of information. Of course, it's up to you to ferret out what's relevent and what chaff. I have found, however, that about 95% of what I've been told is pretty accurate.

With regard to the FAL, you might want to visit the FalFiles:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php

It's pretty much dedicated to the FAL and it's iterations.

From your handle, you might also want to look at some of the forums here:

http://pub113.ezboard.com/bparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums

There is also Gunboards which has a ton of great forums, too.

All in all, you can spend a lot of time reading, researching, and learning about all different military weapons. Information is so available that there is no excuse for not knowing something today. I can't imagine what it must have been like BEFORE the internet and being a collector! My hat goes off to all the "oldtimers" out there who paved the way for all of us today!

Good luck with your purchase. You can find that particular rifle directly from CIA in 100% compliance for about $375. So, if the one you are looking at raises red flags due to the compliance thing, just poke around the internet at some of the supplier sites and you can have your FFL order one for you, NIB.

Rome

[NewShooter78]

Ok, so I took a realy close look at the FAL I was thinking about getting. It has a Hesse reciever on it, and its standard (inch) not metric. So I'm still wondering if this is worth the 550 they are asking for it? I would have asked to fire it today while I was shooting, but my shoulder was a little worn from shooting my shotgun (I'm new to it :D ).

[cabinetman]

I have not owned a Hesse receivered FAL. I have, however, read that they are notorious for "issues". Also, did you look at it carefully? Did the reliefs and scope mounting points look crisp and clear or were they hardly defined?

Also, what does the seller say about compliance? That, my friend, is almost the first issue you should be concerned about. Is he prepared to swear that it's ok to purchase and would pass muster? And, even if he does swear that it is, you should still tear it down to check and not just take his word. If I were to sell mine, I'd expect no less of the buyer but I'd provide him all my receipts showing that the parts I purchased are in there.

Without seeing that rifle, I'd say that $550 is high for a FAL unless it's from DSA or Enterprise. If it's a CIA, I'd much prefer to purchase a new one for $399 and put $100 or a little more into it rather than take a chance that someone else hasn't done if correctly.

Finally, let me say that while many problems/issues can be exaggerated by guys here at these forums. I will tell you with 100% certainty that if that rifle is not in compliance, you are asking for trouble. This is not an exaggeraton. You could not only have it confiscated but end up losing the rest of your collection not to mention other legal issues. The ATF will not fool around with this, especially in light of what's happened during the past 24 months. Faining ignorance will not save you, either. It simply isn't worth taking a chance. What you do is up to you, but 1) that rifle seems expensive, especially if it hasn't been made to be true to a specific model of FAL and 2) if there isn't any guarantee that it is in complaince, then you'll be taking a gamble.

These FALS/L1A1s are wonderful weapons that will give you years of enjoyment. You just have to make sure you're not buying a boondoggle that you could end up regretting.

Must my 2 cents..

Rome

[Nightcrawler]

Hesse receiver? Stay away. BAD MOJO right there. If I were you, I'd keep looking. You know what kind of company Hesse is? They don't even offer a warranty on their weapons.

[keederdag]

I highly recomend Enterprise for the $. They will install a barrel on your receiver and properly headspace it. Go to gunthings.com, buy a kit inch/ or ppppttoie metric, and do the rest yourself. FSE, penquin, and Tapco are all good sources for U.S. parts. Remember you Must have 7 if the barell is threaded. If it is not, You must have six. Starting out with a good U.S. receiver is, in my veiw, preferable. It is actually the gun, and counts as a U.S. part if made here. Reguards Keeder:D

PS if you screw on any type of muzzle brake, it must be pemanently attached: welded, brazed ect.

[surfinUSA]

I've got a Century FAL built on a Hesse FAL-H receiver. This gun has always run great. Hesse has a bad rep. But when they work they work as well as any of them including the original FN.

[JohnKSa]

Do yourself a favor and don't buy a Hesse product.

[NewShooter78]

Well I've come to the conclusion that I'll put off buying a FAL until I know that I can afford the quality I want. I'm working on another trade right now to fill my semi-auto rifle slot. But thanks for all the advice, and opinions. I'm still going to get a FAL one day, but I think that I'll wait until I can afford the DSA rifles.

[keederdag]

DSA Yuck metric. Kinda like Gay sex, I'm sure it's good, just not for me.:D

[standingbear]

BTW, i bought a fal from ohio rapid fire few months back.i got the carbine model that was on sale.argy version.the store has quite a collection of funguns.they did a excellent job on the gun i got.they are nice folks to deal with also.the receiver is imbel,the parts are argy and are 922 compliant.no worries there.check them out.

[jrhead75]

Well I've come to the conclusion that I'll put off buying a FAL until I know that I can afford the quality I want. I'm working on another trade right now to fill my semi-auto rifle slot. A man after my own heart. No such things as too many quality firearms at a reasonable price! ;)

DSA Yuck metric. Kinda like Gay sex, I'm sure it's good, just not for me. ROFLMFAO!!! A beer flavored sinus rinse and monitor wash all at the same time! :D

I bought a fal from ohio rapid fire few months back... I've never heard a single bad thing ever said about Ohio Rapid Fire's work.

Good luck NewShooter78!

[Detritus]

You know what kind of company Hesse is? They don't even offer a warranty on their weapons.

try "don't EXIST anymore" i think someone may have bought out the machinery, etc but Hesse went under a while back. they ran themselves into the ground with POS products. you;re better off without whatever gun type, than to have that type with a Hesse receiver or parts.

[surfinUSA]

Hesse receiver? Stay away. BAD MOJO right there. If I were you, I'd keep looking. You know what kind of company Hesse is? They don't even offer a warranty on their weapons.

Many companies don't offer a stated warranty. I believe Glock and Sig are two prominent ones. However, both stand by their products. The real problem with Hesse was that they didn't. When someone had a problem Robert Hesse gave them nothing but grief.

My feeling is this:
1. Most people talking internet stuff about Hesse products have never owned one.
2. I'll run my Century FAL and its Hesse receiver against any other FAL. It may not be as pretty, but its as reliable and accurate or more than the other better named brands.

There are a fair amount of us out there with Hesse or Century guns that work fine. Find a dealer that will let you test fire the gun. Many of these are bargains because people talking internet stuff needlessly scared other people away from them.

My gun was built using a new or like new Austrailian parts kit with a chrome line barrel plus the US compliance parts, one of which was the Hesse receiver. Hey, I would have liked an Imbel receiver (FN licensed manufacurer of FALs) but this one works just as well and its a US part.

Other than a preban FN or a brand new DSA SA58 all of these guns are parts kits including DSA's STG58. Me, I don't see any justification to spend the extra $500-1,000 for a better named brand when I'm getting the same service out of a cheaper one (which is still genuine military parts on a new receiver with US compliance parts).

Most of the "custom" builders are nothing more than glorified parts assemblers that put a nice finish on the gun and charge a small fortune for it. Unless you are going to buy a brand new DSA SA 58 (the only new gun on the market) you are better off putting together your own and having it refinished or buying a Century gun ( any problem can be worked out cheaply with advise from the FALFILES.com). I could not have built a gun that is as good as the price I paid for my Century even with its bad rep Hesse receiver.

[NewShooter78]

Well since they guys at the shop don't seem to know much about the gun, I'm even more hesitant about it. I don't know squat about the gun, so I'm going to stay away from it for the time being. I figure the time I spend saving up for a good FAL, I'll be able to learn a whole lot more about all that is FAL.

[Nightcrawler]

My friend ordered a Hesse-converted Saiga 7.62x39mm rifle from Federal Arms a couple years ago. Hesse added the new trigger group, pistol grip, buttstock, muzzle brake, and modified the magazine well.

The rifle has given him the old 3-round burst, and I attribute this to the Hesse trigger assembly. Not a big deal to replace this with an RSA, but come on, even the Romanian guns don't do this.

I believe Hesse's old stuff is being sold under the name Vulcan Arms now.