Range report... Open sights... 100 yards... 1917 Enfield


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mickeydim468
March 5, 2009, 02:22 AM
Well, I took it out today and ran 12 shots through it at 100yards and I am happy. I was on my knees using a stump as a rest and I used the stationary peep sight that I thought was calibrated at 50 yards, but it shot high. So, I adjusted my aimed target and shot a pretty nice 1" 3 shot group and 2 fliers. All shots from that group was within 3" but the 3 were within 1". I would call that MOA wouldn't you? :D

Mikey!

P.S. If you want closer pics and more pics of my rifle then click here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mickeydim468/USModelOf1917Remington#

Thanks for looking!

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C-grunt
March 5, 2009, 02:30 AM
Ive always liked the look and feel of an Enfield. Id say thats might fine shooting you did there, even with the flyers.

mickeydim468
March 5, 2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks C-Grunt! I was excited about that result, because that is the first time I have been able to see what I was shooting at with any type of clarity. I think the rifle did most of the work. What I was most surprised about though was the fact that it shot 3-4 inches above where I was aiming.

Does anyone know what distance the non-movable part of the peep sight is set at when it was made? I thought it was supposed to be 50yards.:confused:

The flip up sight is graduated and I haven't shot with that sight yet, because it starts at 200yards and goes up to 1600yards. The furthest I ever shot at a target was 100yards and that was yesterday as shown in my range report.

If someone knows or knows where I can find the info, please post.

Thanks,

Mikey!

lionking
March 5, 2009, 09:53 PM
Some mil-surp rifles shoot high with the battle aperature or lowest setting,they are set to "battlefield" zero.With my Enfield's both No4 and M1917 I use the ladder sight almost exclusively because with those you can usually make them shoot point of aim at 100yds despite whatever the settings say on them and the smaller aperature makes for better accuracy.

With my Winchester M1917 however I have a situation where one setting shoots low at 100yds and one click up makes it shoot high.So in that case at some point I will have to file down the front sight a bit or live with it,or change bullet grain.Or aim center bulls instead of 6'o clock on the bulls.

mickeydim468
March 5, 2009, 10:10 PM
Well, since my original post, I have researched and found that the 1917 as well as the No. 4 Enfield stationary battle sights are armory set at 300 yards with Mil ammo 174gr for the .303, and whatever gr the 30-06 mil springfield weight is. I am shooting factory ammo at 180gr. So it should be pretty close. I just have to adjust my POA so that my POI is where I want it. That's why practice, practice, practice is what makes a better shooter. I am sure playing with the graduated sight will produce different results, but that's where more practice comes in as well. I will eventually get better. Heck this was the first time out where I could actually see the target.

I think I did ok for the first time.:confused: Right???

Mikey!

Funderb
March 5, 2009, 10:16 PM
very nice. i like it much.

mickeydim468
March 5, 2009, 10:20 PM
Thanks Funderb!

lionking
March 5, 2009, 10:21 PM
Yeah you did good.Get it zeroed where you want it,then shoot three or four 5 shot volleys on targets and you'll get a decent idea what you and the rifle are capable of on a consistant basis.

That center group you got,if you with it does that consistantly then I'd say that is a good shooting rifle.Might want to try 150 or 165gr ammo to see what happens.

Tom609
March 5, 2009, 10:43 PM
Very nice! When I got my Eddystone I was very unhappy with results of using the 150 grain CMP HXP ammo that works great in my Garand. The Eddystone patterned like a shot gun. I then reloaded some using a 165 grain bullet with 42.6 gr of 4895. The results were amazing! I had the same experience with the sights as Lionking. Play around until you find the right combo for your rifle.

I love milsurps. They have character and history.

Rosstradamus
March 5, 2009, 10:53 PM
I would call that MOA wouldn't you?

No. "I was a straight A student if you don't count those F's."

They all count whether you like it or not.

lionking
March 5, 2009, 11:05 PM
Last month or so I tested three brands of 30-30 all 150gr in my Winchester 94,and brand alone changed general impact area,although warmer barrel could have a effect also.

In some of my Mauser 8mm rifles S&B shoots tighter,but in some Prvi Partizan does,and again same grain different brand changed impact area somewhat.It is amazing that such details make the difference but it does.

Handloaders have the edge and make their rifles shoot optimum,as much as I'm into shooting you would think I would reload but I just never have.LOL I'm kind of scared I would load wrong and blow up the rifle.

lionking
March 5, 2009, 11:22 PM
This is last time I tested HXP ammo in my Remington M1917.The first shots are shooting low,and they are spread.This rifle has a hair light trigger and since I don't shoot the rifle alot I was not shooting it good at first because the trigger,but I at least got the idea the sights needed to come up.

Second target after adjusting sights I got it shooting closer to the bulls,group is looking better because I'm now remembering how light that trigger is.

Third target I have three tight around same area as last 5 shots but 2 away.So as far as I see it the jury is out on whether I just need to learn this rifle better or if it just shoots some tight and some strays spread but if the rifle does always send a few wide then that like it or not will be considered it's accuracy.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/m1917/th_002.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/m1917/?action=view&current=002.jpg)

lionking
March 5, 2009, 11:28 PM
And this is my Winchester M1917.It shoots low right consistantly.One click up elevation makes the shots go where the trigger guard is located at as reference to it laying on the target.

In this case I have more confidence that the sights need to be fixed to get it around the bulls for impact.But it will take a few more times shooting it to know for sure my average on group size but so far I seem to do a little less than 3 MOA with it.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/m1917%20winchester/th_007.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/lionking_rocks/m1917%20winchester/?action=view&current=007.jpg)

jlmurphy
March 6, 2009, 02:17 AM
Most bolt action battle rifles used a 300 yd zero. The idea was that a center chest hold would hit high or low out to 300 yds with no need to compensate. A taller front sight is needed to bring it down to a 100 yd zero. They are available for Mausers, I'm not sure about the 1917.

mickeydim468
March 6, 2009, 12:12 PM
Lionking

Nice! Thanks for sharing. You have a couple of nice rifles there.

jlmurphy,

That's what my research found yesterday. You are correct. I do not think I want to change the front sight. I just need to practice and make sure I get proficient with where to aim to score a Bull every time. That way, I will be the only one who can shoot my rifle with any accuracy. Anyone I want to teach will be able to know as well, but strangers etc, won't! :neener:

Mikey!

Limeyfellow
March 6, 2009, 02:09 PM
The M1917 is one of the finest designs based of the Mauser you are likely to find. They added in the features loved from the Lee Enfield and combined it with the strength of the Mauser action. You got a really nice rifle. Yes battle sights back then are almost universally set to 300 yards. It only after the 50s they dropped that distance.

NCsmitty
March 6, 2009, 02:22 PM
The standard military load for the your 1917 Enfield and subsequent milspec chamberings in that caliber was a 150gr FMJ @ 2750FPS. There were minor variations in certain loadings for different situations.

NCsmitty

mickeydim468
March 26, 2009, 01:08 PM
My S&K scope mount arrived last week and I mounted my 4-16X40 Center Fire scope on my M1917. I took it out to the range and at 100 yards, I shot 5 shot groups within 1.5" to 2" all day long from the sandbags and a bench rest. I am more then pleased with my rifle. I feel confident that if I aim at something and pull the trigger, I am going to hit it.

I did take NCSmitty's advice above and changed to the 150 Gr. rounds. Remington's ballistics showed near 3000 fps for those rounds with a 24" bbl. My bbl is only 20", so I am not getting quite as many fps, but it sure shot much straighter than it did with the 180 Gr. and scope. There also wasn't as much kick to it either.

I also further modified my stock as well. Since the wood had been modified before I ever received it. I decided to go ahead and make a change that I thought was very necessary. Let me explain.

When I stood the rifle on it's butt flatly on the floor, the bbl was angled almost 30 degrees from plumb. This made the gun lurch back and hit my shoulder with about 2 square inches of contact. This resulted in a big bruise each time I took the rifle to the range. So, I cut the stock off at an angle that made the bbl plumb when sitting on it's butt, and added a medium slip on limb saver, until I can find a permanent padded butt that will fit properly.

Now when I shoot it along with the 150 Gr. Remmington Core Lokt rounds, it's a dream. Barely feel anything. Definitely no pain whatsoever. It was after this mod, that my groups tightened up as I wasn't whincing when I pulled the trigger. Now I just have to go practice some more with it to teach myself that pulling the trigger isn't going to hurt and I think I can tighten up the groups even more. All in all though, I am very happy with my M1917 rifle! :D

Thank you all for your posts.

To clear some things up on the battle sights on the M1917... According to C.S.Ferris' book UNITED STATES RIFLE MODEL OF 1917 the range of the battle sight is set at 450 yards. Which makes sense. When I used the battle sight I was shooting WAY high, 3-4" high. When I flipped up the adjustable sight and set it to 200 yards, I was only 1-1.5" high. So, there you go!

Jim Watson
March 26, 2009, 01:40 PM
Model 1917 does not have open sights. It has aperture or "peep" sights.
Obvious to the naked eye and as important a distinction as clip versus magazine.

Kleanbore
March 26, 2009, 01:40 PM
You might want to check the bore (groove) diameter. The original five-groove barrels for the Model 1917 were made to British specs for the .303 Pattern 14 (.310+ dia.). If the barrel hasn't been replaced with a .308 barrel, you might get better groups with larger diameter bullets.

Jim Watson
March 26, 2009, 01:51 PM
Not exactly.
Hatcher's Notebook explains the Springfield versus Enfield rifling plan in detail.
The SMLE and 1914 barrel has a .303" bore and five .0058" grooves for a nominal .314" groove diameter.
The 1917 has a .300" bore and .005" grooves for a nominal .310" groove diameter,
BUT the lands are much wider than a 1903 with its .308" groove diameter. Turns out, the 1917 is actually tighter, displacing more bullet metal as it engraves.

mickeydim468
March 26, 2009, 01:59 PM
Jim,

Obvious to the naked eye and as important a distinction as clip versus magazine.

Didn't you see my signature? You may be able to tell the difference between open sights and peep sights and to even know that there is a difference between the two, however, the term open sights was only to differentiate that there was no scope attached and I didn't know the difference between peeps and open, at the time. So, it wasn't so obvious was it?

Thanks for the correction!

Mikey!

Kleanbore,

.308??? Don't you mean 30-06? From what I understand, none of the production M1917 rifle's bbls were made to the British specs. That was the first thing they changed to accept the ammo that was in huge supply for the 1903 Springfield which they were in short supply of.

Does anyone else have more info. I am only going by the facts as gethered by C.S. Ferris in his book as mentioned above.

Jim Watson
March 26, 2009, 04:21 PM
Kleanbore was no doubt referring to a barrel groove diameter, not a cartridge designation.
There were a lot of 1917 REPLACEMENT barrels with .308" groove diameters instead of the original .310".

doubs43
March 26, 2009, 04:34 PM
Mickey, Jim is talking of the bullet diameter at .308"; not the cartridge itself.

For a well researched and authoritative book on the 1917, look for a copy of Ian Skennerton's book "The U.S. Enfield". Be prepared for sticker price shock. They have been out of print since 1987 and only 2500 copies were printed. They have gotten pricy.

If you enjoyed reading about "Range report... Open sights... 100 yards... 1917 Enfield" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!