[Floppy_D]

I have a chance to pick up some metal ingots, 50% Bismuth, 32% Lead 18% Tin. There's around 600lbs worth. Should I grab it? If I did, would anyone else have any use for it? It melts around 204 degrees, so I imagine it would need to be mixed with lead to get any use out of it.

Thoughts?

[Floppy_D]

Here's what I know about it:

LOW 203 Typical End Use Melt Temp: 203°F (95°C) Density: 0.3502 lb/in3

Bismuth 52.5%
Lead 32%
Tin 15.5% Cadmium Free alternative for LOW 158 for Nuclear Medicine.


INDUSTRY EQUIVALENTS: AIM Bi46, CerroSHIELD, Indalloy 42

Should I jump on it?

[TimRB]

Sounds like Cerrosafe, which melts at some sub-200F temperature and is used to make chamber castings. I would grab it, but then I grab everything and my yard/garage/house prove it.

Tim

[Floppy_D]

What's a fair price? Can I cast with it? (I'll probably pick it up)

[TimRB]

Here's Cerrosafe:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=384&st=&s=

As you can see, it's expensive in small quantities. I picked up a pound of it once and recently used it to make a chamber cast. Point being, 600 pounds is a LOT.

I don't know about the alloy you're talking about, but Cerrosafe is well-characterized so that when you make the casting and wait a prescribed period, the metal is the correct dimensions of the chamber.

When you say "Can I cast with it?" do you mean bullets? I wouldn't try to make bullets out of the stuff. They would melt coming out the barrel.

Tim

[Floppy_D]

This melts just over 200... I'm wondering what I can get that up to by cutting it with plain lead. If nothing else I can use a heat gun and sculpt with it in my living room, just to bother the wife. :D

[bullseye308]

You might want to find someone that makes shot for shotguns and see if they would be interested in buying it from you.

[Beagle-zebub]

If it's expensive in small quantities, you could just sell the 600lbs. at retail. How much does your potential supplier want for that bulk purchase?

[243winxb]

Depends on what you want it for. Casting bullets i would guess maybe, cast some and see. It seems to have some use when inside a copper jacket or shotguns. # Replacement for lead in shot and bullets. The UK, U.S., and many other countries now prohibit the use of lead shot for the hunting of wetland birds, as many birds are prone to lead poisoning due to mistaken ingestion of lead (instead of small stones and grit) to aid digestion. Bismuth-tin alloy shot is one alternative that provides similar ballistic performance to lead. (Another less expensive but also more poorly performing alternative is "steel" shot, which is actually soft iron.)
# Bismuth core bullets are also starting to appear for use in indoor shooting ranges, where fine particles of lead from bullets impacting the backstop can be a chronic toxic inhalant problem. Owing to bismuth's crystalline nature, the bismuth bullets shatter into a non-toxic powder on impact, making recovery and recycling easy.[citation needed] The lack of malleability does, however, make bismuth UNSUITABLE for use in expanding hunting bullets.
# Fabrique Nationale de Herstal uses bismuth in the projectiles for its FN 303 less-lethal riot gun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismuth Google it.

[Floppy_D]

I did google it, and read a bunch, just nothing that showed it at as bullet casting alloy. I'm wanting to use it for .452" 200g SWCs. I did learn that the Brinell hardness is 12... good to know. I was hoping one of the resident sages would chime in with their experience. (Calling rcmodel, Walkalong, Bushmaster, etc.)

I found out that there's going to be much more than I originally thought, so if there's any way to make this work, I've got to jump on it.

I'll try some this weekend hopefully, we'll see how it works. If anyone has first hand experience or other good info, please share.

Thanks all!

[243winxb]

The shrinkage of the alloy using Bismuth might be a problem, i dont know. Pure lead looses a lot more diameter as dropped from the mould then antimony. So a test casting would be usefull to see if the alloy will maintain the proper diameter as cast. And then shoot 100 rounds to see if the Bismuth fouls the barrel. Maybe you will get lucky and find a person who has cast/shot this alloy

[243winxb]

http://www.alchemycastings.com/lead-products/fusible.htm I would email this company for info. Plus read there info onsite. They also sell standard bullet casting alloy, so they should know if your alloy can make cast bullets. Save you a lot of work. Properties of Fusible Alloys
The chief component of Fusible Alloys is Bismuth, a heavy, coarse crystalline metal that expands when it solidifies. Water and Antimony also expand on freezing, but Bismuth expands much more than the former, namely 3.3% of its volume. When Bismuth is alloyed with other metals, such as Lead, Tin, and Cadmium, this expansion is modified according to the relative percentages of Bismuth and other components present. As a general rule, Bismuth alloys of approximately 50 percent Bismuth exhibit little change of volume during solidification. Alloys containing more than this tend to expand during solidification and those containing less tend to shrink during solidification.
After solidification, alloys containing both Bismuth and Lead in optimum proportions grow in the solid state many hours afterwards. Bismuth alloys that do not contain Lead expand during solidification, with negligible shrinkage while cooling to room temperature.
bullet Most molten metals when solidified in moulds shrink and pull away from moulds, failing to reproduce fine mould detail. Because Fusible Alloys expand and push into mould detail when they solidify, they are excellent for duplication and reproduction processes. This characteristic of expansion and/or non-shrinkage, combined with low melting temperature and ease of handling, are the major reasons for their extensive use. A number of eutectic* and non-eutectic alloys have been standardized.

[243winxb]

Should I jump on it?What's a fair price? Can I cast with it? Dont jump. $1.50 to 1.70 per lb with shipping in lots of 100lbs is retail. NO i would not try to cast with it because it can expand after cooling. After solidification, alloys containing both Bismuth and Lead in optimum proportions grow in the solid state many hours afterwards. The low melting point of the alloy is not a + when the heat from the burning powder comes in contact with the base of the bullet. Just a guess on that one.

[Floppy_D]

Thanks 243winxb, I found the alchemy site (that's where I cut and pasted the data specs from). I called and the gentleman on the phone told me that it wouldn't work due to the brittle nature of the bismuth. I asked him about adding it to plain lead to stretch my supply, and he said it wouldn't be worth it. I guess I'll pass for now. (a real shame, it was 20 cents a lb.)