whats this rifle?


PDA






Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 01:12 PM
Hey guys,

My father-in-law gave me this gun to sell, he said it was his grandpa's gun (his grandpa, or my great grandfather-in-law was from switzerland) It has Lyman "ghost ring" adjustable rear sight and a standard rifle front sight. It came with 2 cardboard stripper clips, 10 rds of 7.5mm swiss, and a box magazine. I belive it to be a Schmidt Rubin rifle in 7.5mm Swiss... thats all i know. The bolt, action, barrel stock and buttplate all have matching #'s

anybody know anything about it?

what it is worth?

My father-in-law said its super accurate, he has taken a few deer with it.

http://qvphia.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pZ8iE6-_NAR2xQgMCQ9amw03n4mTc5TBbHBhMw7n_L3MOupC_evUBOkUGxui7qsNl7kd1hlF7yNw/IMG_0529.JPG
http://qvphia.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pmWY7hsZM1WIFDRMD9ZYX-iOgH5_3tO7HJM3C_jr6BCryhUXsNOU4-JRU0wbKCmtvd0ApyuVhhk4/IMG_0530.JPG
http://qvphia.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pSHt5TP-niZ7BFS-vcrGM-qEJv-OOTM9Ps6oLffkxsj7thm3OZZcKB82SdFrBtY9G_b8ztBRHK9Y/IMG_0532.JPG
http://qvphia.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p0tYgcvUzgGGw_k0bFMfYfvRmMuv_Q2tIiDlVlhQF3S6kjG-oVNoKM60xGBKAnn6ncSDl1cLrzqc/IMG_0533.JPG

I just got done googleing for the last hour, and came up with this
http://antiques.motleys.com/auction-items/schmidt-rubin-model-1880-serial-166518-rifle-75mm-swiss-former-military-rifle-sporteri

It looks close, but not the same, mine has the wood stock that looks factory, with some stamps all over it.

thanks guys

If you enjoyed reading about "whats this rifle?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 01:25 PM
Here is a nother one that is close
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=120320343
do you think that they are the same?

Morrell
March 5, 2009, 01:40 PM
Looks like a Swiss K11... They are sold here.. http://ioinc.us/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IO&Product_Code=SWIS0008&Category_Code=Long+Guns

Sam1911
March 5, 2009, 01:42 PM
That's a K-31 carbine. Swiss infantry rifle in 7.5x55 Swiss. Incredibly accurate and a better trigger than most facotry hunting rifles come with.

The GP-11 ammo is Swiss military surplus and it is match grade and then some. Unfortunatly, berdan primed. Privi makes some that is Boxer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-31

Great rifle. I bought one for $125 a few years ago. I think you can find them around $400 these days.

-Sam

P.S. -- I was going to shoot mine in a rifle side match last year and grabbed a stripper clip of ammo and took it to the range to test it. First group off the bench was 1", even. At 100 yds., with open sights. Yes, it was a fluke that I shot it that well, but not a fluke that the rifle is capable of it. Amazing guns.

Funderb
March 5, 2009, 01:45 PM
it's a sporterized k31. swiss, 7.5x55mm

soldier147
March 5, 2009, 01:45 PM
how much does he want for it?

Morrell
March 5, 2009, 01:45 PM
Looking at the action, I'd say it is a K-11 rather than a K-31

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 01:56 PM
I looked up the S/N and this is what I came up with,

Model 1931 Carbines (Karabiner)

Year: 1950 # of rifles made: 13200 S/N: 936801-950000

Also It has Redfield front sight and a Lyman Rear sight

according to completed auctions on gunbroker, they sell from $250-$450.

I think I would like to see $300+S/H for it

one more question
I know you can ship the original schmidt rubin rifle because of its manufacture date, do you need to ship to a FFL holder?

Is it considered a "replica" of the original rifle?

Thanks- Ian

Dan Crocker
March 5, 2009, 02:07 PM
Those things are Swiss-made tack-drivers. Have fun with it!!!!

Duke of Doubt
March 5, 2009, 02:10 PM
Sporterized like that, it isn't worth much anymore. But I've no doubt it shoots well and would make a fine deer rifle.

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 02:17 PM
Sporterized like that, it isn't worth much anymore. But I've no doubt it shoots well and would make a fine deer rifle.

I belive it came from the factory like that...
It was made in 1950, the stock is in great cond, and has the factor marks all over it.

I could be wrong.

I wish I had this trigger on my Rem 700!!!

do you think 300 is asking too much? I have seen 3 on GB for that much that have the shorter stock, and redfield sights...

I just want to get the F-in-law what i can for it.

Thanks

Duke of Doubt
March 5, 2009, 02:28 PM
Here's what it looked like from the factory:

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/

The K31 was made until 1958.

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 02:36 PM
Sporterized like that, it isn't worth much anymore. But I've no doubt it shoots well and would make a fine deer rifle.

thanks

PTK
March 5, 2009, 02:38 PM
VERY IMPORTANT!

That, folks, IS NOT A K31.

That's a 1889 Schmidt-Rubin.

DO NOT FIRE 7.5x55 GP11 MODERN SWISS AMMO IN THAT RIFLE!

The gun shown has the locking lugs to the rear, is made of older steel, and will not handle modern loads. Again, DO NOT FIRE MODERN AMMO IN THAT!

Easy proof - look at the mag catch, look at the bolt lugs.

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/1889bolt.jpg
http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/1889.jpg

Source for images/further info: http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/

Duke of Doubt
March 5, 2009, 02:41 PM
Give us a photo of the receiver crest, showing date of manufacture. Also the bolt.

PTK
March 5, 2009, 02:42 PM
Seriously, look at the lug location.

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/k31bolt.jpg

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 02:44 PM
standby for pics

PTK
March 5, 2009, 02:46 PM
Could you take the bolt out and show us? That'll also help with the ID, though I very strongly suspect that this is an 1889 that's been sporterized.

Duke of Doubt
March 5, 2009, 02:51 PM
PTK, on what basis? What in his photos or description suggested that to you? He even gave the manufacture date as 1950.

PTK
March 5, 2009, 02:53 PM
PTK, on what basis? What in his photos or description suggested that to you? He even gave the manufacture date as 1950.

Look. At. The. BOLT. Where are the lugs on his pictures? Now, where are the lugs on a K31?

Now, look at the mag catch. That's ONLY present on the 1889.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=93942&stc=1&d=1236279452

Funderb
March 5, 2009, 02:58 PM
oooh, wait, look how far forward that rear sight bas is in that pic too.
damn, thats a weird sporter.

he said his father in law shot deer with it, probably not with paper patched bullets i'm guessing.

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:00 PM
I vote k31.

Great, but the author's pic SHOWS that it's not a K31....

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 5, 2009, 03:02 PM
PTK beat me to it - not a K31. The lack of a PG stock is also a givaway. Don't shoot hot ammo in it, as PTK said. Listen to PTK - to listen to others would be to the detriment of your hands, face, eyes, etc.

Value, very little since "sporterized" - maybe $100-$125 on a good day.

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:02 PM
OK, sorry bout the wait camera died on me! Damn technology!!!


http://oyr2kw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1paKmv-HdFKiJKmxkXjwX-yHeVeLJ9LrLQpGgTAjI3oOMDhCN8XKvzFd2GtLKoy5zlU9Pmf0CTaOs/DSCF0489.JPG
http://oyr2kw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pilD7oBXDGteuSP5X-5nqmp08kuDdR7458Ft3-Cy0rBeDhZ6I1rvOFqoRH3fh4KhE8ByhGruzpjE/DSCF0479.JPG
http://oyr2kw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pmVgXojdlloTY7gzD6dSyDwi5y8vG-VFBDUMAwtvHafBuZNUqgkxWExzEFEsBtc_1-2z-AG7_gAU/DSCF0496.JPG
here's the ammo that came with it, I dont know what the headstamp means.
http://oyr2kw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pTOAI2AneVikAcJKnEz19xFlp6EtLnAnzPkrmSCUUgE2KkzyOC5PxvytwlXA3pxVbN7vk5Zyn7mA/DSCF0488.JPG
http://oyr2kw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pyZzMt7ANBxrk_hxf5k5CDnbCXCP3IHQ0y1yV_tv0HxHb9KLPmvrbzyDUeAs4E2i2fyrZ0oIr2d0/DSCF0494.JPG
http://oyr2kw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pucweawd_6YY5RjI8062Pgpn7D0LitP4XW-MWZKVeyKSXM_Kwa0uCpCf7oaeIh1WfzRbgkOrxcC0/DSCF0490.JPG
http://oyr2kw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pNN_3AelLjOL_Je0W96pThOYcY62glSRcW-xjmOOzIACMlBEJqNTUfJFevMwNTNdgJXaB7OWskDQ/DSCF0481.JPG

if you want me to take more pics just tell me what ya want, thanks

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:03 PM
PTK beat me to it - not a K31. The lack of a PG stock is also a givaway. Don't shoot hot ammo in it, as PTK said.

THANK YOU! Finally someone else knows that it's not a K31 even though it's Swiss and straight pull - there are MANY variations on the Schmidt-Rubin system, and you need to know the differences to be safe.


Oh, LOOK, it's an 1889, not a K31. Gee, I was right.


NEXT TIME YOU DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, DON'T GIVE SOMEONE DANGEROUSLY INCORRECT INFORMATION.

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:04 PM
Now, look at the mag catch. That's ONLY present on the 1889.



It does have the mag catch like the pic

3pairs12
March 5, 2009, 03:04 PM
I don't know it doesn't look like the K31 bolt to my untrained eye. I am with PTK on this.
Now that I can see the new pics I am difinitely with PTK

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:06 PM
THANK YOU! Finally someone else knows that it's not a K31 even though it's Swiss and straight pull - there are MANY variations on the Schmidt-Rubin system, and you need to know the differences to be safe.


Oh, LOOK, it's an 1889, not a K31. Gee, I was right.

ok,... so it is just called a "sporterized schmidt-Rubin 1889"?

Funderb
March 5, 2009, 03:07 PM
well, some one seems to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed this morning....

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:08 PM
ok,... so it is just called a "sporterized schmidt-Rubin 1889"?

Yes, I have one in my "for sale" thread, here's the pic.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=87769&d=1226788420

It's an 1889 Schmidt-Rubin that's been sporterized. Worth between $200-$400, depending on overall condition and who wants it, closer to $200 usually. The ONLY ammo that's safe to shoot is handloads.

well, some one seems to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed this morning....

Oh, sorry if I get worked up over everyone giving someone DANGEROUS information that could literally KILL someone! I'll let you go about your business - I bet you could fire .44mag out of that .45LC, too..... :rolleyes:

Duke of Doubt
March 5, 2009, 03:10 PM
Actually, the Schmidt-Rubin 1889 was the rifle I first pointed him to, if you check the link I posted. His 1950 manufacture date made me think K31 instead. Where is that 1950 date, by the way, Iansstud? I don't see it anywhere in your pictures.

I wouldn't give over $75 for it.

Funderb
March 5, 2009, 03:11 PM
Oh, sorry if I get worked up over everyone giving someone DANGEROUS information that could literally KILL someone! I'll let you go about your business - I bet you could fire .44mag out of that .45LC, too.....


nonsense, i shoot 30-06 out of my mosin nagant all the time. Its just hard .... cramming..... them ...... in .... there..... rrrg...

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:17 PM
Actually, the Schmidt-Rubin 1889 was the rifle I first pointed him to, if you check the link I posted. His 1950 manufacture date made me think K31 instead. Where is that 1950 date, by the way, Iansstud? I don't see it anywhere in your pictures.


I just googled schmidt rubin serial number and this came up
http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/schmidt_rubin.html
I looked at my S/N and found it about 7/8 of the way down the page under "Model 1931 Carbines (Karabiner)"

could be older then that? I dont know, I just calls'em like I seez'em

do I need a FFL to ship to, or not, I have seen 2 rifles on GB that say you dont...

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:18 PM
It's an 1889, no, no FFL to ship it. Anything made before 1899 (1898 or earlier) is legally (Federally) an antique and thus "non-gun"

Sam1911
March 5, 2009, 03:21 PM
I looked at the pics again and there is no doubt. I missed the locking lugs and mag catch before. Not a K-31. It's an 1889.

Should be antique enough not to need the FFL to ship.

-Sam

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:22 PM
Yes, it is indeed an 1889. And that's why people need to be careful before posting information that could be dangerous!

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:22 PM
I wouldn't give over $75 for it.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=120750847
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=120320343

Duke of Doubt
March 5, 2009, 03:24 PM
I ain't those two.

What did P.T. Barnum say?

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:24 PM
I see said the blind man

Funderb
March 5, 2009, 03:25 PM
well, if you want to collect a curio... but it is apparently worthless as a shooter. I wouldn't take it if it were given to me.

PTK says it's unsafe, and he's generally correct, I've seen.

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:26 PM
Duke of Doubt

I wouldn't give over $10 for your entire collection, doesn't mean that's all it's worth. ;)

Iansstud

Yes, that page seems to be incorrect.

PTK says it's unsafe, and he's generally correct, I've seen.

Kind words, thank you. :)

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:28 PM
Hey,

Big thanks to everyone!!! -Ian

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:28 PM
Iansstud

Not a problem, just be SURE to tell any buyer/shooter that uses this rifle that modern ammo is far overpressure. :)

Ian
March 5, 2009, 03:35 PM
It's an 1889, no, no FFL to ship it. Anything made before 1899 (1898 or earlier) is legally (Federally) an antique and thus "non-gun"

FYI for other folks reading this thread, the date for not needing an FFL is based on the specific gun in question, not the general model. In this case, all of the Schmidt Rubin 1889s were made by 1897, so they all qualify as antiques. But other rifles, notably the Mosin Nagant M91/30s, were made both before and after 1899. So in those cases, only the individual guns dated 1898 or earlier qualify.

PTK
March 5, 2009, 03:37 PM
Ian is correct - it is the SPECIFIC manufacture date of each gun in question, not the model number. :)

Iansstud
March 5, 2009, 03:39 PM
I think i will put it up for sale in the forum 1st then try GB, I'd like to get $200 for it, I dont know if that is way out of line, but if I was in the market, I would pay $200 for a rifle that can shoot this good.

Duke of Doubt
March 6, 2009, 04:36 AM
In the case of the Mosin, BTW, the date ATF uses is the date on the receiver (under the tang), and NOT the date on the barrel, which you can see plain as day and which the Russians considered the gun date. This makes for some amusing possibiities, as you can imagine.

If you enjoyed reading about "whats this rifle?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!