Winchester 1894 30 WCF (30-30) dates 1943


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Clint C
March 5, 2009, 06:08 PM
I have just traded into a Winchester 1894 30 WCF (30-30) dates 1943 and is a carbine. I don't know what ammo to shoot through it. I mean what grain and velocity of ammo should I fire through the carbine?

I havn't recieved it yet as it is coming from Las Vegas and shipped today.

Thanks, Clint

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Runningman
March 5, 2009, 07:09 PM
Winchester 1894 30 WCF (30-30) dates 1943 Sure about the date? My Winchester serial number book shows none made between 1943 - 1948.

Harve Curry
March 5, 2009, 07:23 PM
30 WCF is the old terminology for the 30-30. It is all the same thing.
Kinda a neat you have one made during WWII. Does yours have anything on the tang, Winchester or drilled for a tang sight? Also the forearm should be 1 1/2" ahead of the barrel band. The front barrel band could be the standard contoured one or the WWII expedient flat strap barrel band.
Also the butt plate is probably checkered steel.
Providing your rifle is in good shape, any factory 30-30 ammo is safe for it. They don't make 30-30's any better then the one you have.

salvo
March 5, 2009, 11:13 PM
Congrats, I have a bunch of pre 64 Model 94's
Actually Winchester did make them between 1943-48 the reason they cant date them the records were lost in a fire.
Here is my 1942 Model 94.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester%2094%201943-48/Winchester94-1943-48-2.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester%2094%201943-48/IMG_0587.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester%2094%201943-48/IMG_0604.jpg

Double check your serial number against this post. The polishing room records have found errors in most of the books and web sites that date Winchesters.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=245213

Clint C
March 5, 2009, 11:40 PM
Serial number is 1234xxx. My bluebook shows last one made in 1942 was 1221289, 1943-1947 have no record available. In 1948 1500000 was the last one made. I guess it could have been made in 1948. I just assumed since it was so close to 1942 that it was made in 1943. I don't have anything that says nothing was made in 1943-1947. I do have material that says they were made from 1940-1964. Now with 1221289 being the last one made in 1942 and 1500000 being the last one made in 1948 that means they put out 278,711 serial numbers between 1943 and 1948. So I am ASSUMING my rifle was made some where in there and with it only being about 13200 serial numbers after the last one in 1942 I assumed it was made in 1943. 278,711 serial numbers is a lot to make in one year compared to their usual 30-40 thousand they made a year. If you divide 278,711 by 6 years that leaves you with 46,452 serial numbers a year. six years coming from 1943-1948 counting all years including 1948. Does this make since or is this not how the serial number system works? There are no records in these years so it is a mystery and I am glad to own a piece of this mystery. I will not be getting this rifle till next week as I made a trade online and it just shipped today.

Salvo that is a nice rifle. Mine is not as nice but I traded a pistol for it and came out good on the deal.

Here are some pictures of the carbine that were sent to me.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/cacyhupp/DSC00317.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/cacyhupp/DSC00323.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/cacyhupp/DSC00325.jpg

Thanks to all, Clint

Clint C
March 6, 2009, 12:10 AM
Salvo according to the thread you attached my carbine was made in 1942. I'll have to do some more digging around.

Thanks, Clint

salvo
March 6, 2009, 01:44 AM
Clint, mine also was in the 43-48 years until Bert H contacted me and said it was a 42. It was a relief to be able to date it, Im glad it worked out for you also. That is a good looking 94 and it has all the pre war features!

Clint C
March 6, 2009, 01:49 AM
This is getting very interesting! Thanks for the info. Where do you get it all, or is it all stored in your head?

salvo
March 6, 2009, 01:58 AM
All the little bits of information is what makes the old 94 interesting to collect, I wish I knew more, but at least it is fun learning.

jim in Anchorage
March 6, 2009, 02:23 AM
The Madis book is the bible,IMO. His 94 SNs only go to 1932,however,so I can not help the OP.

Clint C
March 6, 2009, 10:40 PM
post 16
The records are available at Cody up to just under 400,000. All shipping records after that number are lost. I don't when the fire actually occurred. We also know that the Date of Mfg. list that are in use are inaccurate because of verified shipping dates from outside sources. We know that guns in the 1,33X,XXX range were shipped to Canada in 1943. We know that guns in the 1,240,XXX range were shipped in the summer of 1940. So how would 1,200,XXX have sat in a corner for 3 or 4 years to be shipped in 1942? It is possible but I cannot believe it unless verified.

Another strange fact, That same incorrect DOM list show the highest numbered 94 made in 1894 was serial number 14,579. The factory records at Cody show the highest assign SN was 1674 but the highest number shipped was SN 1380. Who do you think is correct?

post 17
I would venture ( someone else's ) guess , that while working on whatever Winchester was for the war , that lever guns were not much of a priority and the assorted parts were warehoused for the most part. Bins and crates may have come out of storage backwards ( higher #s last to go in and first to come out ) A receiver made in '40 could very well not have been matted with barrel , stock ect. and shipped out for several years.

But like I said , just a guess someone else made and it seemed to make sense the way they wrote it.

post 18
You are talking about a few guns being out of sequence, indeed that did happen. I'm talking about the DOM list being incorrect which has nothing to do with guns getting misplaced at the factory

Heck
March 7, 2009, 02:21 AM
thought my 42 was in the last bunch that was made and until after WWII

rcmodel
March 7, 2009, 02:14 PM
I don't have anything that says nothing was made in 1943-1947.Several have pointed out that Wichester was deeply involved in converting the factory and doing war time production of M-1 Garands during those years.

There were no commercial guns made except those going to the military or law enforcement.

After the war, the factory was converted back to sporting arms production and the manufacture & sale of 94's resumed.

They still were using up receivers that had been in storage during the war.

The only sure way to tell when the gun was assembled & shipped, other then a Cody letter, is to take off the magazine tube.

It should have a date stamped on the bottom of the barrel just in front of the receiver indicating when that happened.

rc

salvo
March 7, 2009, 05:28 PM
I'm pretty sure the flat bands were war time guns?

Clint C
March 9, 2009, 11:43 PM
Can you dry fire these?

salvo
March 10, 2009, 11:30 AM
I wouldn't, I have heard of broken firing pins from dry firing. Most gun shops have snap caps for 30-30 though.

Clint C
March 10, 2009, 12:45 PM
I never thought about snap caps, thanks Salvo.

rcmodel
March 10, 2009, 02:43 PM
+1

Do Not dry-fire any of the old Winchester lever guns.

Dry-fire firing pin breakage is a known problem, especially on 92's.
But 94's are also subject to it.

They never break in actual use, firing real ammo.

rc

280shooter
March 10, 2009, 03:04 PM
I have one with a smooth butt plate,
ser. 151 71xx

I had looked it up awhile back and all i could find was 1948,, is that right?

this has been in the family since new, it was passed down to me from my Great Aunt,

Clint C
March 10, 2009, 06:03 PM
It looks to me that your rifle was made in the year 1949, according to my Blue Book of Gun Values, but another list may put it earlier. My book says 1500000 as the last serial number made in 1948. Like I said though I am finding out that this list could be off by a bit.

rcmodel suggest to look on the underside of the barrel for a date. I well be doing this to mine as soon as I get it, maybe tomorrow.

280shooter
March 10, 2009, 09:55 PM
would the date be stamped under the forend,? because i don't see any date.else where. but I can live with the fact that my 30-30 was built in 49,
like I said the butt stock. has a smooth metal plate,I dont know when they started making them plastic,

280shooter
March 10, 2009, 10:46 PM
http://www.savage99.com/winchester1894_dates.htm

Clint C
March 10, 2009, 10:50 PM
The only sure way to tell when the gun was assembled & shipped, other then a Cody letter, is to take off the magazine tube.

It should have a date stamped on the bottom of the barrel just in front of the receiver indicating when that happened.

rc

They started to make them plastic in 1965 is what I get from reading. 1964 was the last year they made them with a metal butt plate. The reason for this was to still produce it and sell it for a cheaper price.

Is the butt plate smooth metal, chekered metal, or smooth metal with lines in it like mine?

salvo
March 11, 2009, 02:30 AM
Here is my 1965 it has a metal butt plate, hard to tell what a transition 94 ends up with. I think they used what ever parts they had at the time.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester%2094%201965/IMG_5159.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester%2094%201965/Winchester941965-2.jpg

Clint C
March 11, 2009, 05:16 PM
Well I picked it up today! Man is this thing awesome. I went out and shot it six times. I was hitting water filled pop bottles at 45 yards no problem. So far I would say it is very accurate. I bought some of that Hornady 160 grain Leverevolution and shot a big chunk of ice with it. It really didn't do any damage, but when I shot the same chunks of ice with Federal 150 grain soft point FN the ice exploded. It looked like someone shot it with a tank! Is the Leverevolution a ballistic tip or is it more like a full metal jacket? What ammo do you guys like to hunt and target shoot with? Anyways I love this carbine!

salvo
March 12, 2009, 12:52 AM
Sounds like a keeper!
I think any commercial ammo is pretty good since they have been loading it for so long. i like the 170 gr. myself but some rifles prefer 150's.
I re-load two loads for .30-30
150 gr JFP - 31 gr IMR3031
170 gr JFP - 30 gr IMR3031
Then I let the rifle decide which one shoots the best:D

krs
March 12, 2009, 07:51 PM
Every household should have at least one Winchester 94 in .30-30.

The all time most game getting rifle ever made, and you gotta love the old ones.

Clint C
March 12, 2009, 09:06 PM
I Just picked up a 9422 today made in 1976. $280.90 out the door! here are some pictures.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/cacyhupp/IMG_0792.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/cacyhupp/IMG_0793-1.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/cacyhupp/IMG_0798.jpg

salvo
March 12, 2009, 10:28 PM
Dang Clint your on a roll! And a great deal too. Where did you find a 9422 so cheap?

I have a 1973 9422 Trapper.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester%209422/Winchester9422-1.jpg

And a 9422M that I bought new in 1991
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester%209422M/Winchester9422M-2.jpg

I still can not believe what a sweet deal you got, I love the older non checkered 9422's

Clint C
March 12, 2009, 11:47 PM
Salvo I really like that trapper that thing is sweet. How does it shoot? I was looking at a 9422m at Scheel's and they were asking $525.00, but they ended up selling it. It dated 1984.

I got it at Jack Smith Gun Sales in Des Moines.
I told the dealer "your a little under priced aren't you", and he said "you can give me more if you want". This was the day before I decided to buy it (I know it was stupid). He says "he can't sell these older guns because all people want are black "tactical" guns that you can hang 10 gadgets on, and hold at least three hundred rounds and fire as fast has you can pull the trigger". That's good for me because I like the ones he can't sell and I figured if they are going to give em away I might as well take em.:D Also though alot of people around here don't know what some of the older guns are.

I took it out today and man that thing can shoot. I was shooting at a pile of horse poop at 100 yards and I was knocking the s*^t right out of it. lol I'll have to see what it can do on paper when I get a good day for it. Oh, I was also shooting at 50 yards and it was doing great.

The 30-30 really gave me the lever bug.

He also had two "turn of the century rifles" for sale one Winchester and one Marlin, I can't remember what they were chambered in but he said the barrels were burnt out on them. The Winchester was $1200.00 and the marlin was somewhere around $700.00. Both had been refinished.

the 9422 does have alittle bit of rust on the reciever, and some of the rust almost looks like its under the bluing (if thats possible). What can I do about that? I think its rust anyways.

KRS, I couldn't agree with you more

Thanks, Clint

Carl
March 12, 2009, 11:51 PM
Few years ago I bought a Winchester 94 year '51. Great gun. I'm never selling it.

salvo
March 13, 2009, 12:16 AM
I shot a few groups with the trapper when I first got it to sight it in, all groups were under an inch at 25 yds. with a few different ammo.

5 shots at 25 yds.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Range071407/IMG_0008.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Range071407/IMG_0007.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Range071407/IMG_0006.jpg

These guns are allot funner just shooting freestyle at targets of opportunity;)

Oil and 0000 steel wool will take the rust off and will not harm the bluing, just make sure it is 0000. If you run into heavier rust, rub the edge of an nickel and oil on it and it will come right off and wont harm the bluing.

Clint C
March 13, 2009, 01:08 AM
Awesome, good shooting and thanks for the pointers.

Gordon
March 13, 2009, 01:25 AM
This 1892 .32-20 Rifle shot tons of black tail deer in Carmel Valley Ca..The 1890 Winchester .22WRF which is between a .22 Mag and a .22lr and has killed lots of stuff too
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i203/gordonhulme/002.jpg

salvo
March 13, 2009, 11:52 AM
Very nice Gordon!
I hope to find a nice 92 like yours someday.

Beagle-zebub
March 13, 2009, 12:08 PM
Daggum, salvo, that .30-30 looks like a million bucks! Did you have it restored, or was it just put in a hyperbaric chamber right after purchase?

salvo
March 13, 2009, 12:53 PM
It is all stock, I think it lived in a closet it whole life:D

Beagle-zebub
March 13, 2009, 12:56 PM
When did you get it, and for how much?

salvo
March 16, 2009, 02:01 PM
Beagle-zebub, the 1942, Model 94 i found it listed in the classifieds over at http://levergunscommunity.com/index.php?sid=221dd5ae293388194c1798f628fdbaba
about a year or so ago. I think it was just over $600.00
In the last couple of years I have found two other brand new condition model 94's a 1953 & 54 and have not spent more than $600.00 for each.
Here is the 1953, I can not find one scratch on it.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester 94 1953/IMG_6152.jpg

The 54 is in the same condition, but the wood is not as nice.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Winchester 94 1954/IMG_6298.jpg

I have also been lucky to find a like new Winchester Model 64 and Model 71 in the past few years.
I do shoot them all, but am very careful with the like new one's;)

Clint C
March 17, 2009, 09:58 AM
Wow, those are nice Salvo. Thanks for sharing.

Clint C
March 27, 2009, 11:34 AM
Well guys, I took them both out two days ago. My friend and I were shooting at clay targets at 110 yards iron sites and were hitting the clays. That was a lot of fun. I can't believe how accurate both of them are. My friend and I were talking and both agreed that shooting with iron sights is a dieing breed. To me it is a lot more fun to shoot with iron sights especially if you have a spotter. That is a lot of fun as well spotting for someone while they shoot. Some of that shooting was off hand and that is a blast as well. Most of the 30-30 was done off hand.

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