[pittspilot]

Remember when you suggested to an anti that if we banned guns, people would build them illegally. Remember how you were mocked for that idea.

Well, go and find that person, and show him/her the facts again (http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,1056412,00.html)

[Mark Tyson]

an initiative against black-on-black gun related crime

Yeah, those black guns tend to be a wild lot, running around shooting each other in the street . . . what? Oh . . . oh! I see.

Seriously, how do they get the ammo? Is it possible to build your own ammo - case, bullet, primer, everything - from scratch? Or do they smuggle it into the country?

[P95Carry]

Not surprising at all ... whichever way you look at it ... banning of privately held guns by law abiding people cannot and will not - EVER - have any effect of significance on criminal arms.

Of course people will make em .... only needs average workshop facilities and some ''DIY'' skills .... and as for ammo ..... well, just remember how resourceful BG's can be! Heard of crushed up matches!!

From that article ..... detectives admit guns are being put on the streets more quickly than they can take them off. Sure they are . always will be ... these are bad guys .. laws do not matter. .. never will.Handgun crime has soared past levels last seen before the Dunblane massacre of 1996 and the ban on ownership of handguns introduced the year after Thomas Hamilton, an amateur shooting enthusiast, shot dead 16 schoolchildren Of course it has - because removing guns from responsible people has not and will not reduce gun crime ... it's a pathetic assumption that it ever will. Hamilton BTW was a nut .. and yet police renewed his firearms licence ... they in fact bear some responsibility for him doing what he did.It was hoped the measure would reduce the number of handguns available to criminals. Now handgun crime is at its highest since 1993. ''It was hoped ... yeah .. about all they could hope for cos no way to guarantee good results .... now they see that those results are not forthcoming ... never would have. How niéve can people be?!

Bottom line? ...... guns will continue in criminal hands ... as any sane person can deduce .. the real downside of all the crazy laws is - that the average person has little or no means of self defence .... they are more vulnerable than at any time in history.

[Standing Wolf]

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns!

I first enountered that notion on a bumper sticker on a rust bucket pick-up truck in Ann Arbor, Michigan in 1975 or 1976. I'd say the British are quite a distance behind the times.

[TallPine]

Banning guns works just about as well as banning drugs ...

[Mr. Bombastic]

Seriously, how do they get the ammo? Is it possible to build your own ammo - case, bullet, primer, everything - from scratch?

How do you think ammo is made in the first place? Someone has to build it from scratch! :)

[cslinger]

Just ban blank firing guns. That will solve things. No blank firing guns and there woudn't be any possible way to make a projectile weapon.:rolleyes:

Wait I have a better idea. Let everybody have what ever they want and when they do something wrong or violent against society then beat them down like a redheaded step child for all to see. :scrutiny:

Ban this, ban that, what's next all arms must be kept in slings and registered with the government for fear that you might hit somebody or use your hands to produce a deadly weapon.

Pretty soon the only tool allowed will be safety scissors and those will be heavily regulated.

[Keith]

You guys should check out the Soviet PPS-42 some time.

The was a very fine submachine gun designed and manufactured in Leningrad during the seige. This thing was built of metal stampings and bicycle frames in basement workshops across the city, and was (by most accounts) the best Soviet sub-gun of the war. It was certainly the most reliable sub-gun fielded by the Russians.

As you may know, Leningrad was completely surrounded by German forces for most of the war. The only supplies that could get through came across lake Ladoga during the winter months, when it was frozen. And that route was under observation by the Germans and was shelled and strafed mercilessly. Ie: not much got through.

One of the things they did have in Leningrad was a huge supply of 7.62 handgun ammo. They got together and designed a gun to use it and the prototypes went literaly from the shop out the door to the front for testing against German troops. They made a few changes (mostly for reliability problems) and by the end of the siege had made over a half million of them! And it was excellent design that was nearly 100% reliable and sported a clever compensator fashioned from a piece of sheet metal.

If you can make a fine submachine gun out of bicycle frames, without electricity, and while starving and being shelled by the enemy... you can certainly cobble together a workable handgun in a modern garage with a few power tools.

Keith

[Quartus]

Pretty soon the only tool allowed will be safety scissors and those will be heavily regulated.




Years back I read a sci-fi story that has stuck with me. (Don't recal the author.) Basically it's the old "inventor builds reeeely smart robot and the robot gets out of control" story, only in this one the robot doesn't go wild and kill people.

It pulls a Ralph Nader instead. It's programed to keep people safe. So it looks around, sees how unsafe we like to be, and takes over. Replicates itself into an army, and takes over the entire world. All unsafe activities are stopped. Even woodworking has been taken away - too dangerous. The robots have substituted tools that will work a soft plastic, so there's no danger but the human can still entertain himself. Finally the inventor is left pleading with the robot keepers for something interesting to do. They point him to all the nice, safe - and completely boring - activities they've created.

And so he sits, two robots hovering over him just in case he tries to do something dangerous, with folded hands...



Ralph and the rest of the blissninnies would probably call that utopia.



:barf:

[El Tejon]

Quartus, aren't you describing your last trip to California?:confused::D

[jimpeel]

I posted this at http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24298

Here is the formula for successful gun control:

1. Ban all guns of all types and calibers.

2. Go house to house and ransack the home while the occupants are held at gunpoint.

3. Arrest and incarcerate for life all master machinists and anyone else who has the ability to machine a gun.

5. Arrest and incarcerate for life all chemists.

6. Confiscate all drill presses, lathes, chuckers, mills, punch presses, drop hammers, and broaching machines.

7. Ban all types of matches, gasoline, methane, naptha, butane, iodine, ammonia, propane or any other volatile or explosive substance.

8. Ban all pipe, lead, copper, aluminum, brass and anything else that can be used to make a gun.

[WilderBill]

It seems the gun laws have been trumped by a bigger, long standing law...

Supply and demand!

[MeekandMild]

jimpeel,

Perhaps we should rename 'gun control laws' as 'criminal job security laws'?

[SDC]

One of my favourite arguing points against gun control laws is to point out how widely available all of the various prohibited drugs are, and to mention that "If you want cocaine, you or someone else has to go all the way to the highlands of South America; if you want heroin, you or someone else has to go all the way to Afghanistan/Pakistan or the "Golden Triangle" in SE Asia; BUT, if you want a gun, all you need to do is go down the street to your local hardware store." To illustrate this point while a firearms safety instructor, I also bought everything I needed to make my own 12 gauge shotgun for $9.72 (Canadian) at the local Home Depot. I've also handled firearms that have been manufactured entirely IN PRISON; if they can't stop someone who is theoretically under 24-hour-a-day surveillance from making guns, how are they supposed to stop someone who's out on the streets from making guns? At this point, they usually start to stammer "But...but...but...huh?"

[El Tejon]

SDC, because they do not care about criminals. They want to disarm us to control us, not crime.

[Rogelio]

Here in Peru that is a no brainer...we get cheap used blank revolvers (made in china,don' know that manufacturer) for about 30 soles (1 USD=3.45 soles) that are 6mm blank shooters. Kids (specially the ones dealing dope) just stick a metal ball in front of the cartridge (standard 6mm ball bearing) and that is it...don't know the ballistics or the accuracy (must be really terrible coming from a non rifled barrel) but it seems to be better than anything...I remember a friend of mine had one back in high school....


MAybe I´ll just get one of those next week and post a few photos...wait up!