Kroger Sticks to Its (Anti-Freedom) Guns!


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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 6, 2009, 10:00 AM
So we should definitely stick to the boycott!

Here's the response - get ready ( :rolleyes: ):

Dear *****:

Thank you for contacting the Kroger Co. I apologize you feel this way about our Cease Fire program. We understand that criminals will not be turning in their weapons. However, the program is not a statement to eliminate crime, but rather to prevent accidents and other such situations.

Reasons to turn in a firearm:
• Young, lively, curious children are at your home.
• Someone in your family or a friend or neighbor is suffering from depression.
• The firearm cannot be properly stored.
• The gun was left by an earlier occupant of the house.
• You can't guarantee that someone else won't get the gun.
• You want to do something to reduce the number of gun accidents, suicides, and homicides.
• You understand that a gun in the home is much more likely to kill or injure a family member or friend than it is to protect you.
• You would rather have a gift certificate than the gun.

These are the reasons we have put the Cease Fire act in place. Please visit http://www.ceasefireoregon.org/coef/turnin.html (which is our published Cease Fire movement for Oregon from 2008) for more information. I will notate your concerns and forward them to our management.

If you have any further concerns, feel free to contact us.


Sincerely,



Chris Hibbard
Consumer Affairs

Reference: 6413460



CUSTOMER COMMENTS:
Letting you know how disgusted I am that you are contributing funds to the horribly bad idea of a so-called "gun buyback" in Dallas, TX. These are the stupidest ideas in the history of mankind, and do absolutely nothing to curb crime rates, since ya know, the criminals don't turn in their guns (go figure). It's a feel good measure by the freedom-hating, gun-hating community that works to erode our civil rights. Making a point to steer clear of Krogers now.

Thank you

If it's not a method to curb or eliminate crime, then how is it relevant that someone wants to "do something" to "reduce .... homocides"???

MODERATOR NOTE: Chris Hibbard is Christine not Christopher. Ms. Hibbard.

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3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 10:04 AM
Boycott is on at my house as of right now. That is the lamest logic I have read in a long time. My nosey kids can't get in my safe niether can my depressed nieghbor. I can guarantee that nobody gets a hold of my gun. They need to put the word car in each one of those reasons why they support the cease fire program. Then I guess there would be a cease car program. How id you contact the Premium I mean Dr. via website? I will be writing a letter to them.

hso
March 6, 2009, 10:08 AM
A boycott isn't going to be enough.

Kroger's needs to be flooded with fact based refutation of this statement AND made aware that they're going to loose thousands of customers nationwide over being suckered into these myths.

chuckusaret
March 6, 2009, 10:10 AM
Please post the guys e-mail address

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 6, 2009, 10:11 AM
Gladly!

chris.hibbard@kroger.com

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 6, 2009, 10:27 AM
Get this - I have a dialogue going here with this gentleman:

OK, here was my response to the initial response:

If it's not about eliminating crime then why did you add "and homocides" to
the 6th bullet point? Ridiculous, standard, gun-hating, anti-freedom
drivel. With this response, you have shown your true colors, and this has
just lit a renewed fire under the boycott movement - the message boards are
already lighting up today. Thank you for your honesty - you'll never get a
red cent from me again.

And here's his response I just got:

Homicide is added because this is most certainly something we would like to have a helping hand in preventing. My response in no way meant we are not trying to prevent crimes of this nature, because this would obviously be a wonderful thing. I should have worded my response as "This is not a movement to JUST eliminate crime." I apologize for the misunderstanding, and again, apologize that you feel this way about our program.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 6, 2009, 10:29 AM
It would be nice if someone would specifically refute this with this gentleman, with facts:


You understand that a gun in the home is much more likely to kill or injure a family member or friend than it is to protect you.

Maelstrom
March 6, 2009, 10:34 AM
My e-mail:

(I cut-and-pasted the response to the bottom of my actual e-mail so he would know what I was talking about.)

-----------------------------------

Mr. Hibbard,

Thank you for your response to my colleague's comment.

Consider Kroger boycotted by my family and freinds, and many many more individuals to come. I'm sure it is exactly what your company would want from gun-owners such as ourselves. I'll be sure to spread the word thoughout the internet, which amounts to thousands upon thousands of people throughout the multiple boards I am a member of.

Have a nice day.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 10:38 AM
Reference: 6413460
Chris
I am writing you to let you know that my family of 5 spends approx. $1000 per month with your stores. I will no longer be doing so.
To state that a gun is more likely to injure my family members than protect my family members is an outrage. Every person I know with a gun takes great care in making sure it doesn't get in to the wrong hands. Gun accidents happen I agree but to take the gun out of a depressed persons reach that is intent on killing themselves will do nothing to prevent their actions. They can easily drive a car off a cliff, buy a rope to hang themselves, or use a knife and cut their wrists. A gun is nothing more than a tool how people use tools varies in thousands of ways. To say that I cant guarntee that nobody else will get my guns is just as sickening of a statement. My house was broken into Jan.13,2006. They burglar was unable to get my guns from my 600 pound safe that is bolted to the concrete foundation of my house. So I can guarntee that nobody gets a hold of my guns unless I want them to. It has been proven. You also state that the gun buy back is not an effort to reduce crime but to reduce the number of gun related accidents. Then why is it you randomly throw the word homicide in to your line of reasoning. Once again if we take the gun from the person intent on comitting murder they would find some other tool to commit thier crime be it car rope or knife. Are you starting to see a pattern that other things are just as dangerous in the wrong hands? What if you placed the word car in each one of your reasonings. Would you than be looking to buy back cars? You do realize that your stores sell ropes and knives don't you? What will you be doing about that to make sure they don't get into the wrong hands. You can't guarntee that some person is not going to use either of those tools in a crime or suicide can you?
Further more I will let everybody I know that supports the second amendment to boycott your stores, becuase you are just as anti second amendment as the Brady camp.
Thank you,
This was my email to Chris.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 6, 2009, 10:49 AM
Turns out "Chris" is short for "Christina":

Here is the latest response from her:

Also, just as a sidenote of information, while we do contribute to Cease Fire programs in other places, this particular program in Texas was in fact sponsored and paid for by the state of TX and we did not contribute any money to this program. We actually had no involvement in the TX buyback other than the state purchased the gift cards from our company.

Now, I'm not so sure that it's appropriate to boycott Kroger, since boycotts are about them not using OUR money to do stupid stuff, and if the state of Texas is paying for it (which I would need to see proof of that), then it's the state of Texas that needs to hear from us. I seriously doubt the TX state legislature would pay for this, would they? We've got to get to the RIGHT party, who is responsible for FUNDING this nonsense!

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 10:50 AM
I almost want have stickers made that say Boycott Krogers they don't belive in 2a. I would also like to pickett in front of my local Kroger.

jaholder1971
March 6, 2009, 10:51 AM
Kroger owns all the Dillon's stores in the midwest, but none of them are posted.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 10:52 AM
I highly doubt that. I thought that I read that they gave the state a great discount on the gift cards. Like 50% off or something. Even if the state did pay for it they have the right to not be affliated with this mess.

TexasRifleman
March 6, 2009, 10:52 AM
I received basically the same response from the Texas district manager after my email regarding the Dallas gun buyback so it's not just an occasional employee or local store, it's clearly company wide.

Also, just as a sidenote of information, while we do contribute to Cease Fire programs in other places, this particular program in Texas was in fact sponsored and paid for by the state of TX and we did not contribute any money to this program. We actually had no involvement in the TX buyback other than the state purchased the gift cards from our company

That is 100% untrue. The organizer of the event said specifically where the money came from, that group also took credit for providing the money and was a prime sponsor, and Kroger sold them at a discount with the full knowledge of the intended use. ).

This wasn't even a State of Texas event, it was the City of Dallas. She has no idea what she's talking about.

Schepps Dairy provided the money as well. They need to be contacted.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 10:56 AM
Event sponsors include Dallas Police, KBFB-FM 97.9 "The Beat," and KSOC-FM 94.5, One-Dallas, Univision 23, Schepps Dairy and Better Dallas Safer Dallas.

I copied this from the city blog and they aren't listed as a sponsor. Oh well I stand by my email.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 10:59 AM
Thank you for contacting the Kroger Co.



As I have stated to your friends, I apologize for the misunderstanding – the wording in that sentence should have been not JUST to eliminate crime. If we can eliminate crime, of course that would be wonderful.

Also, while we do hold a Cease Fire program in other states, (again as I stated to the others) we in no way contributed to the buyback in TX. The state of TX funded this program entirely, and the extent of our involvement was simply the fact that the state of TX chose us to purchase the gift cards from. We did not contribute.

Also, I apologize our statement on possible things that may happen was an outrage to you. You sound like a perfectly capable gun owner, and of course it was not meant to be personal, but rather general. Our involvement in our other Cease Fire programs were simply to give customers who WANTED to turn in their guns an option. We in no way intended to take away anyone’s rights on the matter.

I hope this helps to clarify, and again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.



Chris Hibbard

Consumer Affairs.

and their response is the same.

TexasRifleman
March 6, 2009, 11:00 AM
In the email to me they clearly take credit for participation as a sponsor, and acknowledge that they knew the intended use of the cards, and they stand behind the program.

And as you say, they could still have refused even if it was "the state" wanting the cards.

Also, while we do hold a Cease Fire program in other states, (again as I stated to the others) we in no way contributed to the buyback in TX. The state of TX funded this program entirely, and the extent of our involvement was simply the fact that the state of TX chose us to purchase the gift cards from. We did not contribute.

Again, 100% false. No public funds were used here. She's simply trying to wiggle out of this.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 11:05 AM
my response:
I did not take this as a personal attack, but to as a general attack. To lump all gun owners in a group of people that do not take their right to bear arms as seriously as the far vast majority is just wrong and possibly stereotypical. I get the impression that Krogers general stance of gun owners is that most are far more dangerous than others. This wrong. There 10s of millions of gun owners in this country and very few actual gun accidents. The numbers are actually pretty stagering, how safe gun owners in "general" are.

TexasRifleman
March 6, 2009, 11:07 AM
Stay after them :)

taprackbang
March 6, 2009, 11:10 AM
Just sent that turkey an email.
Can't stand when people state opinions as facts..

Kroger lost me, that's for sure.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 11:11 AM
I will I may even read my next response befor I send it to make sure I don't skip more words. :)

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 11:12 AM
This is great it would take them to make a public apology and start selling ammo for me to consider shopping there again.

leadcounsel
March 6, 2009, 11:17 AM
If they were truly interested in keeping nosy kids away from guns, why not give people coupons for purchasing gun safes from local vendors.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 11:21 AM
I think that would be a great idea, however probably to noble of a cause.

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 11:23 AM
Their last lie:
We apologize, the program was only in place for those who wanted to turn in their guns – we of course in no way intended on denying anyone’s second amendment rights, and again, we had no involvement in the TX buyback program. I apologize you feel this way, and I will most certainly forward your concerns on.

chuckusaret
March 6, 2009, 01:00 PM
e mail sent to Kroger's at 12:58pm 3/6/09 on boycott of all Kroger stores.

taliv
March 6, 2009, 01:32 PM
email sent

hso
March 6, 2009, 04:08 PM
TR,

Would you post the email you received to add to this one so that they can't dodge the facts with claims of not knowing what the cards were intended for?

Thanks

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 6, 2009, 04:12 PM
We got 'em on the run, boys - keep firing! :gigglesnark:

moooose102
March 6, 2009, 04:21 PM
$@%#!$%$*(&*^_)(*&^%%$# anti-gun (*YY^%$^#@#!!!!!! i will be writing him shortly! i am so fed up with anti-gun people trying to SHOVE their veiws down my throat i could just PUKE!

highorder
March 6, 2009, 04:27 PM
i am so fed up with anti-gun people trying to SHOVE their veiws down my throat i could just PUKE!

whoa, who is shoving what where?

You can shop wherever you like, and write leters to whomever you like.

Kroger can support whatever silly hollow cause they like.

I can see the Corporate HQ from the highway on my commute home. Who in the Cincinnati office should I schedule a meeting with?

TexasRifleman
March 6, 2009, 04:33 PM
I've got a question in to someone about it before I post an email publicly.

I'm not quite sure that's proper, regardless of the reason.

I will post the relevant portion, though not the name of the person, at this time.

"Please be assured Kroger supports and encourages diversity and alternative viewpoints among both our employees and our customers. I am sorry that you feel that our support of the recent Dallas gun buyback program does not reflect this".

This is from someone in Texas divisional management as far as I can tell.

Maelstrom
March 6, 2009, 04:35 PM
No misunderstanding. At the very least this is guilt by association. When you mingle with people of this type you will be held accountable. When you support them, then you will monetarily punished for doing so.

The only appropriate response to anyone attempting to undermine any amendment to the Constitution is to tell them you do not want to be associated with them. Now it's time to pay the piper until you get your affairs in order.

------------------------------------
I apologize you feel this way. Again, as I stated to your friend, while we do hold Cease Fire programs in other states, we actually had nothing to do with the TX gun buyback. This was funded by the state of TX and they simply purchased our gift cards – we did not contribute to this program in any way.

Also, it was not our intent to get in the way of anyone’s rights. The programs that we do sponsor are simply in place for those who WANT to turn in their guns. But again, we did not contribute to the TX buyback. I hope this helps clarify the situation, and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

MaterDei
March 6, 2009, 05:18 PM
I have a couple of comments/suggestions.

1. This is a necessary battle and needs to be fought. Even if their ONLY involvement in anti-gun activities is Cease Fire then that is enough.

2. We should probably start sending, or at least copying, our correspondence to somebody in public relations in Cincinnati. The URL for customer comments (https://customer.kroger.com/comments/comments.aspx) on the web site will ensure that the right audience receives the information. If everybody just sends their comments to a specific person who might happen to be anti you can guess how many of these will end up where it matters.

3. Please include your Kroger card number with any comments. This is usually your phone number. If you do this then they can verify that you are indeed a customer and not just a pro-gunner responding to an online appeal. I recently put together a budget for my family and, according to my bank statements, in 2008 I averaged $1,880 per month at Kroger alone (I have 6 kids). If a couple hundred of us with similar spending habits decided on a boycott then we are talking about real money, even for Kroger.

4. Almost all of my grocery shopping is done at Kroger and they need to know this. They are close to my home, but so is HEB and switching to them will not be a big inconvenience.

Thanks guys for starting this fight!

3pairs12
March 6, 2009, 05:29 PM
The look on their faces has to be priceless. Maybe they will eventually rethink their stance. However it seems that may be highly unlikely.

kolob10
March 6, 2009, 05:42 PM
Just fired off an email and stated that I will no longer patronize the stores.

JR47
March 6, 2009, 05:44 PM
We live in Georgia. Kroger stores here aren't placarded about CCW, nor are they supporting gun buy-backs.

I would hope that anyone emailing Kroger Corporate uses better grammar, punctuation, and spelling than evidenced so far.

I would also hope that we read the thread's posts at least well enough to understand that the "he" in question is a "she".

I have had several opportunities to be published in the Atlanta Journal Constitution on matters involving Georgia legislation on CCW and guns in general. I did so by being informative, stating resources, and pointing out the fallacies of the opposing writers. I DID NOT make threats, use slang, or look like a fifth grade student in my choice of words, grammar, and punctuation.

This will require more research. We hold "Chris" accountable for her words, then add supposition on our part, and still hold her accountable for the newly achieved outlook.

Post #10 revealed that the person is female. Post #13 spoke of believing that Kroger gave a discount on it's cards. Post #14 had an unspecified "organizer" telling us who sponsored the buy-back. Post #17 also stated that "no public funds " were used.

Let's provide something besides innuendo here. If letter writing is going to be done, these "facts" need to be verified with links identifying names and positions.

If Kroger has done something that you don't like, fine, shop elsewhere, and voice your displeasure. However, before making accusations, provide the information as to where they came from. Otherwise, you may as well hope that letter-writing is cathartic enough, because they will simply press DELETE.

TexasRifleman
March 6, 2009, 05:49 PM
I would hope that anyone emailing Kroger Corporate uses better grammar, punctuation, and spelling than evidenced so far.


I wasn't aware that only the best educated and well spoken were allowed to voice their opinion on Constitutional matters.

I value substance over style myself.

Maelstrom
March 6, 2009, 06:34 PM
What would you be more worried about losing, Tex, illiterate Rednecks that "are probably on welfare anyway" or professionals with a crapload of loose change to toss away on stuff other than the bare staples.

Let's face it, education often coincides with money (with rappers being the exception to the rule). My guess is that there isn't a whole lot of port wine cheese and filet mignon floating around the trailer parks as of late.

stevemis
March 6, 2009, 07:06 PM
I got this reply this morning, after stating in my original message no response was warranted or expected.

from Chris (Christina).

Thank you for your feedback. Again, as I have told the others, we had no involvement in the TX buyback program. This was funded by the state of TX and they simply purchased our gift cards.

What this woman replied to was what the OP got as a reply. "Our Cease Fire Program" etc. I happily pointed this out, and haven't heard anything since.

My reply to Chris's assertion that "Kroger had no involvement":

You will find that your mere participation in matters of this nature, directly or indirectly, is a horrible business decision. Gun ownership is at an all-time high in this country, and millions of people are now buying firearms for the first time.

Your use of Brady Campaign "misinformation" along with statements about "our cease fire act" only seem to solidify your anti-gun and thus anti-self defense position.

Specifically (emphasis mine):


"
• You want to do something to reduce the number of gun accidents, suicides, and homicides.
• You understand that a gun in the home is much more likely to kill or injure a family member or friend than it is to protect you.

These are the reasons we have put the Cease Fire act in place. Please visit http://www.ceasefireoregon.org/coef/turnin.html (which is our published Cease Fire movement for Oregon from 2008) for more information. I will notate your concerns and forward them to our management."

hso
March 6, 2009, 07:08 PM
Things seem to be getting complicated on the Kroger support of the Dallas buy-back question. I contacted Kroger Corporate headquarters and asked about their support of the Dallas buy-back. I received a telephone call from a representative of their's this afternoon and exchanged emails with a Ms. Diggs.

Here's the exchange.


CUSTOMER COMMENTS:
Did Kroger donate the $50 gift cards used in today's Dallas gun buy back featured in this article? http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/02/have-gun-will-receive-gift-car.html

If so, as a longtime Kroger customer I disapprove of Kroger sponsoring such activities that are nothing more than publicity stunts and do nothing to reduce crime. Gun buy backs are a tactic by people who blame objects for people's behavior.

Please let me know if Kroger donated or otherwise sponsored the Dallas gun buy back.

*************************************
I received the following email after Ms. Diggs called me on my cell phone and we talked for about 15 minutes.

*************************************

Dear Mr. XXXX:

Thank you for contacting the Kroger company. The Kroger company is not a sponsor of this event, nor did we donate the cards that are being given out. The city of Dallas has simply purchased the gift cards from our company to give out to people turning in the hand guns.

Please forward to me at this address the email that your fellow forum member received so that I can share it with upper management. Again, we appreciate you contacting us about this issue.


Sincerely,



Jennifer Diggs
Consumer Affairs

Reference: 6416277


Reply


Mr. XXXX:

Thank you so much for forwarding that to me. I have talked with my supervisors and they are already aware of the email that Ms. Hibbard sent out. The information she included in her email to Mr. YYYY was from a gun buyback website and is not the official stance of the Kroger company, nor the personal opinion of Ms. Hibbard. Her response to Mr. Stoner's email was in error. If you would like to speak to her supervisor, you can call us at 800-KROGERS and ask for Melissa.

Again, thanks so much for your help on this issue. I am glad that you had emailed us so that we could provide you with the correct information.

Jennifer Diggs
Consumer Affairs

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX:

I forgot to mention our customer service number in my previous email. Could you let your members know they can contact us at 800-KROGERS and verify that we did not sponsor this event? I greatly appreciate your assistance!



BTW, I had a productive conversation with Ms. Diggs this afternoon. Turns out her father is an enthusiastic firearms collector. She expressed shock that information from an anti organization would have been used in an official communication sent by a representative of Kroger.

TexasRifleman
March 6, 2009, 09:14 PM
So they are saying they unknowingly sold the gift cards to Better Dallas Safer Dallas with no idea what the purpose was?

Even though others in their company say the buyback was supported by Kroger?

My email, from Christie Metropulos in Consumer Affairs, states that Kroger participated in the buyback.

Yesterday someone in the same department says they sponsored the buyback, now today they didn't.

I don't believe we are at a true answer yet......

Deltaboy
March 6, 2009, 09:25 PM
no more shopping at Krogers!

Carne Frio
March 6, 2009, 09:33 PM
:DI think it's strange that Kroger is doing that,
when the Fred Meyers chain, which is a division of
Kroger, sells guns in the stores here in Alaska.
Schitzophrenic is the word that comes to mind.

chuckusaret
March 6, 2009, 11:04 PM
Kroger is a very large company. I recommend each of you should go to: www.thekrogerco.com/

We have many many different stores that can be boycotted

chuckusaret
March 6, 2009, 11:07 PM
The reply from Kroger to my e-mail:

The City of Dallas has a program this Sat. for a hand gun turn-in for a $50 Kroger Gift Card.
Kroger is not sponsoring the program, the city is simply using Kroger Gift Cards as the reward for turning in the gun. Here are the rules as we know them:
* The hand gun must be in working order
* 1st come 1st served until all 450 cards are given out
* The Dallas police are accepting the guns and giving out the cards
* The event is at the Reunion Area

The above info was from: Chris.Hibbard@kroger.com

hso
March 6, 2009, 11:10 PM
We may have a local vs regional vs corporate set of responses.

Making gift cards available at a discount to a 501c3 not-for-profit doesn't require corporate approval on the store level with WalMart or Home Depot. They have a certain dollar value allocated per month they have the discretion to hand out. We may have the same situation.

The whole email that DTW posted and the string I posted is easier than a snipet to follow and interpret.

I asked that Kroger check in on this thread so they can get to the bottom of what took place. Let's help make that possible.

If our pressure has made Kroger corporate aware of something done on a regional, state or local, or even an individual store, level that doesn't comply with their corporate desires then we have an opportunity to help them better define what is and is not acceptable charitable giving.

pictoblu
March 6, 2009, 11:28 PM
Sounds bogus to me. Fast talking pr person musta come up w/that.

Why go to the trouble of buying the kroger gift cards instead of giving the ignorant fools the $50? Kroger IS involved, plain and simple, or else the sheeple who participate would not be DIRECTED TO KROGER. Free country you spend the money wherever you please, wouldn't be DIRECTED TO KROGER.

I sent them an email. Just 2 of us and our couple of pets and so the economic impact from us is in the neighborhood of $600+/month. Money is money. Pennies add up.

chuckusaret
March 6, 2009, 11:43 PM
Why go to the trouble of buying the kroger gift cards instead of giving the ignorant fools the $50? Kroger IS involved, plain and simple, or else the sheeple who participate would not be DIRECTED TO KROGER. Free country you spend the money wherever you please, wouldn't be DIRECTED TO KROGER.

We had a gun buy back here last year and I could see by the type people that were participating why they don't give money. The money would have been used to buy crack or booze.

hso
March 6, 2009, 11:51 PM
Very few buy backs give cash. Most of them give gift cards. The cards have restrictions on what can be bought. This reduces the chance of adverse press coming from the buy-backs "paying" for alcohol or drugs.

I have gotten local Home Depot managers to contribute out of their monthly allocation for charitable donations to provide materials and/or gift cards for a youth blacksmithing event. My wife has gotten WalMart to do the same for her Girl Scout troop.

Both have told us that they have higher level programs that have to be preapproved that will contribute. Talking with them has lead us to understand that there are many corporations that deal directly with the public that have several levels of charitable giving, individual stores, district, regional and national levels exist with a full range of discretion from the individual store manager on up.

Drop into any Home Depot or WalMart and ask to talk to whoever is responsible for charitable donation programs (a manager or charitable giving coordinator) and get educated about how extensive it is.

Even if this is a single store, a district or regional decision we can make a difference letting the Kroger headquarters know they need to set policy prohibiting ANY level of participation in anti tactics like gun buy-backs.

pictoblu
March 7, 2009, 12:15 AM
OIC. News to me. Out of that loop, so to speak. They get a tax deduction? Still not shopping Kroger, anymore.

Runningman
March 7, 2009, 04:12 AM
Find this thread interesting. In Portland Oregon local Fred Meyers (owned by Kroger). Seemed to be now involved with gun turn in program. They involve $75 gift cards from Fred Meyer. Here is one from Last October. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2008/10/turn_in_unwanted_firearms_nov.html. BTW I have not shopped at Fred Meyer since I seen this on the news last October.

3pairs12
March 7, 2009, 11:30 AM
JR47 let me be the first to apologize to you for my grammar and punctuation. As I am sure that your comments were directed at me. Now when you use the word "let's" would that mean your are infact going to particpate in doing something worthy, or sit on the fence and point out my grammar. I was typing those emails as I watched my 18 month old daughter. My attention was mainly focused on her. I am however pretty sure that I got my point across. Also the root word of activism is active not education or class.

danweasel
March 7, 2009, 11:49 AM
I bought a Mossberg 500 and an XD .45 from Kroeger in the last year. They had some great prices too.

Browning
March 7, 2009, 12:00 PM
Maybe I'll have to send this to her.

Gun Control Advocates Purvey Deadly Myths printed in the Wall Street Journal 11/11/98 (http://homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn-firearms/Lott/Lott7.html)

The family gun is more likely to kill you or someone you know than to kill in self-defense.

The 1993 study yielding such numbers, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, never actually inquired as to whose gun was used in the killing. Instead, if a household owned a gun and if a person in that household or someone he knew was shot to death while in the home, the gun in the household was blamed. In fact, virtually all the killings in the study were committed with guns brought in by an intruder. No more than 4% of the gun deaths in the study can be attributed to the homeowner's gun.

Also ignored is that 98% of the time when people use a gun defensively, merely brandishing the weapon is sufficient to stop an attack. In less than 1% of the cases is a gun even fired directly at the attacker.
How many attacks have been deterred from ever occurring by the potential victims owning a gun? My own research finds that more concealed handguns, and increased gun ownership generally, unambiguously deters murder, robbery and aggravated assaults. This is also in line with the well-known fact that criminals prefer attacking victims that they consider weak.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

E-Mail sent letting her know that the Kellerman study was flawed.

chuckusaret
March 7, 2009, 12:40 PM
I have had several opportunities to be published in the Atlanta Journal Constitution on matters involving Georgia legislation on CCW and guns in general. I did so by being informative, stating resources, and pointing out the fallacies of the opposing writers. I DID NOT make threats, use slang, or look like a fifth grade student in my choice of words, grammar, and punctuation.

JR47 you are the exception. We need the support of the person that writes on a fifth grade level as well as the educated. I am sorry that you, as self described educated person, take exception to the input of a fellow American who did not have the opportunity to get a better education. As an elected official I work just as hard to accommodate the poorly educated, and their poor grammar and misspelled words are overlooked, as I do the educated.

Yoda
March 7, 2009, 12:42 PM
Mr Hibbard - - -

I'm sure you're probably aware that some of the e-mail exchanges you've had regarding your support of the Cease Fire "gun buy back" program are being shared with others. I'm one of the "others." I'd like to join in the discussion, if I may.

First and foremost, I want to compliment you for responding with respect and restraint to the first e-mail that was sent to you, which struck me as needlessly abusive.

Second, I want to acknowledge that Kroger's is certainly within its rights to sponsor, or not sponsor, any program it likes.

Third, though, I'd like to suggest that your stance may be based on some incorrect information.

The popular perception that a gun in the home is more likely to harm someone living in the home than to help protect them has been refuted over and over by sound research and statistical analysis. It appears the original "factoid" was developed by picking data and then purposely misapplying statistical techniques, then published in order to support an agenda. It is continues to be cited in support of the same agenda.

In addition, although the total number of guns in America is at an all-time high, and the per-capita rate of gun ownership is also at an all-time high, the gun accident rate is at an all-time low, whether expressed in per-capita terms or in absolute numbers…which is truly remarkable, given our growing population.

As I said, you and your company are free to sponsor whatever program you like. May I suggest, however, that you consider sponsoring genuine gun safety training programs? For example, the "Eddie Eagle" program teaches children that when they see a gun, they should "Stop! Don't touch! Leave the area! Tell and adult!" Something along this line would also support your admirable hopes to promote gun safety, and I believe it would have a much more practical effect. Statistically, I believe you would need to remove about 15,000 guns "from the street" to stop a single gun crime (assuming every turned-in gun had the same chance of being used in a crime) or close to 550,000 to prevent a single accident.

As a side benefit, you could host an "Eddie Eagle" program in your store, bringing in customers while firmly associating your business with civic responsibility. It may be that programs such as this are a major factor in bringing down the rate of accidents.

As a final note, my teenage daughter was once a cashier in a Krogers in Georgia, and I really appreciated the professionalism the store's staff promoted at every level of the operation.

Thanks for your time. Do well!

Paul R. Broshear
Πίστις, ἐλπίς, ἀγάπη
Pistis, elpis, agapē
"Faith, hope, love."

JR47
March 7, 2009, 04:12 PM
JR47 you are the exception. We need the support of the person that writes on a fifth grade level as well as the educated. I am sorry that you, as self described educated person, take exception to the input of a fellow American who did not have the opportunity to get a better education. As an elected official I work just as hard to accommodate the poorly educated, and their poor grammar and misspelled words are overlooked, as I do the educated.

As an elected official, you have a DUTY to do this. Kroger is a business, run by educated people, and they have ZERO responsibility to pay any attention to comments that are difficult to read, or understand, due to poor spelling, punctuation, and grammar. They do, however, know where the delete button is.

Rednecks? I've been called that. I do, however, repay polite conversation with more of the same. A lack of the basics demeans the message. Like it or not, if you want someone to pay attention to you, you have to make your message concise, and written in a manner that they want to read. An email has access to spell-check, grammar checking, and punctuation checking. Not using them is only evidence of laziness on the part of the sender.

almostfree
March 7, 2009, 04:47 PM
Here is the response I got from Kroger:

The City of Dallas has a program this Saturday for a hand gun turn-in for a
$50 Kroger Gift Card. Kroger is not sponsoring the program, the city is
simply using Kroger Gift Cards as the reward for turning in the gun. I
apologize for any confusion the issue may have caused.

We appreciate the opportunity to address your concerns. Thanks again for
writing.

Maelstrom
March 7, 2009, 06:26 PM
Screw em'. They ignored us, patronized us.

Make them pay. In times of a low economy you simply can't afford to act stupid, and they did.

Maybe losing a few million dollars will wake them up more than a few e-mails.

You get this to a couple of thousand gun owners and that's an easy number to hit.

taliv
March 7, 2009, 07:32 PM
guys, for boycotts to be effective, you have to stop boycotting after behavior has improved. otherwise, there's no point in them changing as they have no reason to believe you will start shopping with them again.

chuckusaret
March 7, 2009, 07:36 PM
..................the city is
simply using Kroger Gift Cards as the reward for turning in the gun. I
apologize for any confusion

Is kroger providing free or discounted cards? No matter what they are doing it is a tax write off and free advertisement for the stores.

TexasRifleman
March 7, 2009, 07:54 PM
Is kroger providing free or discounted cards? No matter what they are doing it is a tax write off and free advertisement for the stores.

That's sort of where I am on this too. It is appearing that they may not have considered themselves direct sponsors (depending on who you talk to) but they didn't mind their name in all the newspapers when the event was held.

I am interested to learn if they sold the gift cards at a discount. If they did, that makes them a sponsor, whether knowingly and willingly or not.

If they did not sell them at a discount then I will shop with their stores again, they can't really screen everyone that comes in and wants to pay retail for a stack of gift cards, nor would I expect them to try.

However, they are under no obligation to offer a discount to every charitable organization that comes through the door and if they chose to support this one then my shopping will still be done elsewhere.

Taliv is correct that you can't ask for a change in policy and not reward it, however.

In fact, if there really is a corporate policy change I would be MORE likely to spend money with a company that will admit they were wrong and take steps to fix it. So, if they DID sell the cards at a discount but realize that was a mistake and take steps to fix it, I'll shop again happily.

Defense Minister
March 7, 2009, 08:14 PM
When Kroger begins supporting the NRA, and makes it public, we'll know their behavior has changed and start shopping there again.:D

hso
March 8, 2009, 12:50 AM
Defense Minister,

If we expect Kroger to make policy to not support gun buy backs then we can't expect them to support another controversial organization like the NRA.

What we can expect is that they be neutral on controversial issues like this.

3pairs12
March 8, 2009, 11:01 AM
Dallas is not using public money to purchase the gift cards, which Kroger is providing at a 30 percent discount to event sponsors, Dallas spokesman Frank Librio said.


There we have it.

jasper275
March 8, 2009, 11:42 AM
I sent out this email.

I would like to share some comments regarding the Dallas gun buy-back program you are sponsering by your probably discounted $50 gift cards. I realize you will probably claim that you had no knowledge of your cards being used for the event, but I refuse to believe a company like Krogers could be clueless about the use of its cards. I suppose most citizens would be gullible enough to swallow that spin, but most gun owners are intelligent, logical, and suspicious of large political/economic bodies. By being involved in this event, you are supporting the forces that are opposed to the 2nd Amendment, pure and simple. I have a Krogers card I use at my local Krogers and at their gas pumps, but will be using my SuperWalmart and ROC for my groceries and fuel from now on. For me, profit bought by truckling to politically correct corruption will not have any of my money "sponsoring" it.

Thank You

DCortez
March 8, 2009, 12:37 PM
I sent Chris an email letting her know we will no longer shop at Kroger, the various links to this story have been forwarded to my and my wife's circle of friends, and that for the sake of their employees, I hope people on the Kroger side of this issue take up the slack.

azhunter122
March 8, 2009, 12:47 PM
Huh, I buy gun magazines from Fry's (Arizona branch) every once in a while.

Mal H
March 8, 2009, 01:21 PM
That seems to be a non sequitur, azhunter122. No one has mentioned Fry's up to this point. Are you suggesting there is a connection to Kroger's? I used to shop for electronics goodies all the time in the Bay Area and never saw any connection.

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 8, 2009, 01:26 PM
Mal, Fry's in some placesis an electronics store (http://shop4.frys.com/ac/storelocator/index.jsp). In other places, Fry's is regional grocery store chain (http://www.frysfood.com/) owned by the Kroger chain, like Smith's and others (http://www.thekrogerco.com/). Confusingly, some places they are both.

The founders of the two Fry's chains were related, but there is no corporate affliation between Fry's Food and Drug/Kroger and Fry's Electronics as far as I know.

gallo
March 8, 2009, 02:23 PM
Here is a copy of an email I sent to Chris (the person cited on the OPs post)
*****************************
Dear Mr. Hibbard,

I live in Frisco, TX, one mile away from the Kroger at Main and Legacy. I write to inform you that since I learned that Kroger was a sponsor of the Dallas gun buy back program, my family has stopped buying groceries and gasoline at your store. I used to spend approximately $400 per month in groceries plus $200 per month in gasoline at that store. I don't believe it is the proper role of a store to mingle with political issues that directly hinder my 2nd amendment rights.

Below is a letter that is circulating in a pro 2nd amendment forum that I subscribe to. Perhaps you should Google to find out what people think about Kroger's position on this matter. You may be losing more than you are gaining by taking this position.

If I am in any way an accurate representation of the customer you are alienating by supporting anti 2nd amendment policies, here is a brief demographic profile of myself:

male
38
white
house hold income > 90K
BA, MBA, MS

Thank you for the time given to this letter. I will also deliver a copy of this letter at the store previously mentioned.


Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXX

Mal H
March 8, 2009, 02:54 PM
Ah ha! Didn't know that, thanks Jorg.

jad0110
March 8, 2009, 02:57 PM
Very few buy backs give cash. Most of them give gift cards. The cards have restrictions on what can be bought. This reduces the chance of adverse press coming from the buy-backs "paying" for alcohol or drugs.

Crap, does that mean I can't turn in a dozen worthless RG revolvers for $50 each to buy a new upper for my AR? :evil:

KarenTOC
March 8, 2009, 03:50 PM
For a number of years, I shopped at Kroger when visiting relatives in Tennessee and West Virginia. The relatives have moved, and there are no Kroger stores where I live, so I'm no longer a customer.

It would not be inaccurate to say that Kroger used to be my favorite grocery store, and that I used to wish it would enter the Northern Virginia market.

Obviously, I can't participate in a boycott. I'm just posting here, in the off-chance that Kroger does peruse this thread. I'd like them to know that i'm disappointed in their support of anti-gun programs, and that they've lost me as a potential future customer.

Of course, if they repent and see the error of their ways, I'll happily return to wishing there was a Kroger near me.

slzy
March 8, 2009, 04:59 PM
i wonder why krogers' has to employ spanish speaking stockers?

they will lie about hiring illegal aliens also.

with the economy being what it is,a boycott should be able to crush any thing.

adios,krogers.

Doggy Daddy
March 8, 2009, 06:52 PM
Kroger does have a lot of stores!

Info taken from: http: http://www.thekrogerco.com/

__________________________________

Supermarkets:

Kroger
Ralph's
King Soopers
City Market
Dillons
Smiths
Fry's
QFC
Bakers
Owens
JayC
Hilander
Gerbes
Pay Less Super Markets
Scotts
Kroger Fresh Fare

Price-Impact Warehouse Stores:

Food 4 Less
Foods Co

Multi-Department Stores

Fred Meyer

Marketplace Stores:

Kroger Marketplace
Smiths Marketplace
Fry's Marketplace
Dillons Marketplace

Convenience Stores:

TurkeyHill
KwikShop
Loaf 'n' Jug
QuikStop
TomThumb

Jewelry Stores:

Fred Meyer Jewelers
Littman Jewelers
Barclay Jewelers
Fox's Jewelers

Financial Services:

Kroger Personal Finance

Rockwell1
March 8, 2009, 07:51 PM
Did I miss the RKBA aspect of this thread?

My apologies, for some reason only pg 4 showed up on my computer. I thought this was a thread about illegal aliens

chuckusaret
March 8, 2009, 07:53 PM
Gee, alot of stores to boycott

biscuit82
March 8, 2009, 08:48 PM
The gun was left by an earlier occupant of the house

How many times has that happened move into a new place and find a firearm

TexasRifleman
March 8, 2009, 09:02 PM
Did I miss the RKBA aspect of this thread?

Kroger participated in some way or another with a gun buyback/s. One in Dallas we know of, perhaps some in Oregon.

We are trying to determine the extent of their involvement, and then how to convince the company they have made a mistake if they knowingly did this.

fd62
March 8, 2009, 10:01 PM
Maybe instead of supporting these buy back programs, they could give out some type of gun locks. I believe this would be more effective in preventing the "accidents" they seem to be trying to prevent. If my local kroger store did this, I would view it as a very worthy cause, and they would keep my business. But for now until we can find the truth in this matter, they won't be getting any of my money!

ebarber
March 8, 2009, 10:46 PM
Hello,

We recently heard from some others your company discounted gift cards to a Dallas police gun buy back program.



We are very political when it comes to our second amendment rights and stand on them very strongly.



Even though you weren't an "official" sponsor of the event, I take your discounting gift cards to an anti gun movement to be an attack against our rights.



We will also make this aware to all of our friends who feel the same way we do.



We will no longer be buying groceries or gasoline at your local XXXXXX Ohio store.



Regards,

cwelch
March 8, 2009, 11:01 PM
Just an FYI - Kroger (Atlanta Division) is a corporate sponsor of GeorgiaCarry.org (http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/georgiacarryorg-sponsors/). GCO believes that citizens of Georgia and the United States have the right to own and carry the firearm of their choice for any reason other than to commit a crime. GCO works tirelessly to ensure that the rights of gun owners are not compromised by the Georgia General Assembly and local officials.

JohnKSa
March 9, 2009, 12:58 AM
You understand that a gun in the home is much more likely to kill or injure a family member or friend than it is to protect you.Browning had a good answer back on page 3.

The above statement is a mangled misquote of a commonly quoted statistic. The ACTUAL statistic (from a study by Kellerman) indicates that a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than a criminal.

The first problem with the statistic is that in the vast majority of cases (around 90%) where a gun is effectively used in self-defense it is not even fired. In the 10% or so cases when it is fired, it is often true that the intruder is not wounded. Lastly, in the few cases where a criminal IS actually wounded, he has an 80% chance of surviving. In other words, the situation where a gun is used in self-defense and the criminal is actually killed makes up a tiny fraction (certainly less than 2%) of the effective uses of guns for self-defense.

SECONDLY, most of the gun deaths of residents in Kellerman's study (86%) were suicides, only 3% were accidents with the remaining 11% or so being criminal homicides.

The statistic is badly misleading. It tremendously overstates the danger of having a gun by lumping suicides in with accidents and tremendously understates the value of a gun by only counting the LEAST likely outcome of using a gun in self-defense--when the attacker is actually killed.

If we correct Kellermans statistic by adjusting both the self-defense statistics to include effective uses of the gun (regardless of whether the criminal actually expired) and to eliminate suicides we find that the results are very different.

Guns in the home are at least 16 times more likely to be used in effective self-defense than they are to kill a family member or friend.

renegade1alpha
March 9, 2009, 01:32 AM
I have a old Clerke 1st revolver in .32 S&W Long that I got for nothing that I would gladly sell back if I thought they would give me, lets say, $100 for it like they have done in other cities.

And they would all have a warm fuzzy feeling all the while thinking "we got another gun off the streets!" Meanwhile, I'm down at the gun store putting that money towards my new over/under 12 gauge, ammo, or reloading componants!

chuckusaret
March 9, 2009, 07:44 AM
I have a old Clerke 1st revolver in .32 S&W Long that I got for nothing that I would gladly sell back if I thought they would give me, lets say, $100 for it like they have done in other Never heard of the Clerke revolver but I have heard of Clerke Competition 10-22Custom Barrels

shaggy430
March 9, 2009, 09:20 AM
Just an FYI - Kroger (Atlanta Division) is a corporate sponsor of GeorgiaCarry.org. GCO believes that citizens of Georgia and the United States have the right to own and carry the firearm of their choice for any reason other than to commit a crime. GCO works tirelessly to ensure that the rights of gun owners are not compromised by the Georgia General Assembly and local officials.

If you read down to the bottom, you will see they donated less than $100.

Here is the email I sent to Kroger:
Ms. Hibbard,

I wanted to let you know that my family and I will be boycotting your stores in response to your company's participation in the TX gun buy backs. I am particularly boycotting in response to the email reference #6413460. From your response I can clearly see that your company is clearly against the Second Amendment and the eroding of personal freedoms. I take offense to your comment that my family is in danger and is more likely to injure a friend or family member than protect them. My guns are kept in a 600 pound safe to which only I know the combination. I think that my family is much safer BECAUSE I have guns.

Also, as for "depressed neighbors" trying to use my guns for suicide, I just find this ridiculous. Someone who wishes to commit suicide could just as likely use a knife, rope, medicine, etc. all of which you sell at your store.

I will be spreading the word to all of my friends and fellow gun owners.

Thank you,
XXXXX XXXXX

gallo
March 9, 2009, 11:19 AM
from Hibbard, Chris <Chris.Hibbard@kroger.com>
to XXXXX
date Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM
subject RE: Reference: 6413460

hide details 9:48 AM (22 minutes ago)


Reply



In regards to Kroger’s involvement in the Gun Buyback Program:



I am sending out a mass apology to everyone affected by my response to the Gun Buyback Program. It was entirely my fault – I sent out incorrect information. I was not entirely educated on Kroger’s stance on the gun buyback program, and therefore I took information off of a website provided in our information. I did not properly read the website, and those statements actually came from the State of Oregon, rather than Kroger. Again, this is entirely my fault, I did make a mistake and I am truly sorry for this.



About Kroger’s involvement with the buyback program – Kroger has absolutely NO involvement in this. These states purchased gift cards from our stores because statistically we are the store most shopped at in these states. The states purchased gift cards from us – we in no way had anything to do with what they were using the cards for, nor did we provide any sponsorship or funding to these programs (this includes ALL states I mentioned in my original response). I have also received some statements about the discounts provided on the gift cards. This in no way has anything to do with the program or what the cards were being used for – anyone who purchases gift cards from us in bulk receives a certain discount based on how many they purchase.



I sincerely apologize for my mistake – I in no way intended on offending anyone or intentionally sending out misinformation. I have been coached for the mistakes and am currently working with a supervisor to become more knowledgeable on the subject.


*******************************

This is the letter I sent yesterday.
********************************

from XXXXXX
to chris.hibbard@kroger.com
date Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 1:20 PM
subject Reference: 6413460
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details 1:20 PM (20 hours ago)


Reply


Dear Mr. Hibbard,

I live in Frisco, TX, one mile away from the Kroger at Main and Legacy. I write to inform you that since I learned that Kroger was a sponsor of the Dallas gun buy back program, my family has stopped buying groceries and gasoline at your store. I used to spend approximately $400 per month in groceries plus $200 per month in gasoline at that store. I don't believe it is the proper role of a store to mingle with political issues that directly hinder my 2nd amendment rights.

Below is a letter that is circulating in a pro 2nd amendment forum that I subscribe to. Perhaps you should Google to find out what people think about Kroger's position on this matter. You may be losing more than you are gaining by taking this position.

If I am in any way an accurate representation of the customer you are alienating by supporting anti 2nd amendment policies, here is a brief demographic profile of myself:

male
38
white
house hold income > 90K
BA, MBA, MS

Thank you for the time given to this letter. I will also deliver a copy of this letter at the store previously mentioned.


Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXX

3pairs12
March 9, 2009, 11:26 AM
Even if they had no direct involvement with the Dallas buy back, they still contribute to the Cease Fire Program. However they did offer a 30% discount on these gift cards which makes them affiliated with it.

http://texasfred.net/archives/3716

testar77
March 9, 2009, 04:57 PM
I too sent an email this morning. We don't have any Kroger's, but we do have Fred Meyers.

Toby

slzy
March 12, 2009, 02:59 PM
kroger advertises heavily in many newspapers who have a left of loony editorial policy.

let krogers and the stores under their umbrella know why you no longer shp there. i have.

Menel
March 12, 2009, 03:10 PM
That's really odd. I shop primarily at Kroger for my grocery needs, 2-3 times a week, as do most people I know. Kroger (the Atlanta division anyway) is a corporate sponsor for our state's strongest 2nd amendment pro-carry civil rights group.

http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/georgiacarryorg-sponsors/

3pairs12
March 12, 2009, 03:13 PM
In post #88 Shaggy pointed out that they donated less than $100.

slzy
April 8, 2009, 11:42 AM
somebody from krogers actually called and left a messge on my machine.

anybody else?

maybe it is working.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 8, 2009, 12:02 PM
At the very least, we're giving Christina something to do! Job security, ya know. :evil:

Yellowfin
April 8, 2009, 04:16 PM
Could a class action lawsuit against them for defamation of gun owners be possible?

ACBMWM3
April 8, 2009, 04:41 PM
I too sent an email this morning. We don't have any Kroger's, but we do have Fred Meyers.

Toby

Do you have QFC's?

hso
April 8, 2009, 06:05 PM
Could a class action lawsuit against them for defamation of gun owners be possible?

On what basis? A private email? Quoting from an anti website?

No.

This is a stale thread. We have an apology and retraction from Ms. Hibbard. We don't have a clear involvement in supporting the buy back. Unless something new comes from Kroger we don't have any reason to continue picking at this.

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