Gun buying panic = psuedo gun ban?


PDA






leadcounsel
March 6, 2009, 01:29 PM
Interesting thought this morning... we've seen the shortages and insane prices for guns lately.

Does the gun buying panic (up an estimated 50% since Obama announced his bid for POTUS, and up dramatically since the election) create shortages and effectively remove many guns from the reach of the common gun buying public? I suspect that much of the buying is done by collectors, those that already own guns and ammo, and those that are banking on making a profit if there is a ban or based on a scare of a ban.

If you were mildly interested in buying an EBR prior to the election but never pulled the trigger, you may not be able to afford them or ammunition now that these have nearly doubled in price.

This may keep many guns (particularly EBRs) out of the hands of new or would-be owners.

If this is the case, I wonder if it's an unintended consequence of the administrations slips of the tongue, or intentional.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun buying panic = psuedo gun ban?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
markfh
March 6, 2009, 01:37 PM
Doubt it. I bought a Bushmaster last month at about 100.00 more than the one I bought from them 3 years ago. Yes, there are folks out there that are gouging but there are plenty of guns available at reasonable prices.

Saw a DPMS M4 at Gander Mountain for under 1k and a M1A1 for under 800 on Tuesday at 5:00. Both were gone when a friend of mine went there Wednesday morning at 10:00.

Generally speaking prices normally go up, not down.

Ammo has been going up in price for years and according to Remington they're cranking out 24/7.

sernv99
March 6, 2009, 01:46 PM
doesn't make sense to buy a EBR now if ammo prices are going up, unless you plan to shoot your ammo only during some sort of "insurgency", civil war or what other fantasy scenarios the conspiracy theorists like to dream about. For the weekend shooter, I don't see it as being cost effective to own one. And I think as long as Obama Mama is in office, EBR ammo at a reasonable cost, pre-O, will be hard to come by especially AK ammo.

Duke of Doubt
March 6, 2009, 01:57 PM
Nah; as of today, 1 in 8 American homes are in foreclosure or delinquent. Far more than 1 in 8 Americans own guns. Soon those silly little Saigas will be back to being $300 guns, and Wolf will be $4 a box again.

MatthewVanitas
March 6, 2009, 02:27 PM
If this is the case, I wonder if it's an unintended consequence of the administrations slips of the tongue, or intentional.

I'd say intentional would be extremely unlikely. Just because guns are a hot political issue for us doesn't mean that it's the #1 issue for more than a handful of folks in DC.

The panic at this point is based purely on Obama/Biden/Holder's track records, and one official statement by Holder that basically nobody else backed.

The current administration didn't really "do" anything to cause the panic, aside from Holder's statement which was months after the panic was in full swing.

I very much doubt that the administration is trying to cause a panic, and I'd bet that those anti-gunners in the administration are quite displeased that EBR sales are up so sharply.


those silly little Saigas will be back to being $300 guns, and Wolf will be $4 a box again.

Though I'm definitely better AR stripped receivers will be back to $100-150 by the end of the year, I wouldn't be so sure on Saigas. We have limited channels bringing Saigas into the country, so it'd be far easier for those few (one?) importer/producer to say "hey, you retailers can sell Saigas just fine for $550, so wholesale is now $400 since I want to get my cut."

Likewise, I don't expect a new AWB to pass, but tighter import controls are much easier to achieve. I'd say Wolf ammo and Saigas have a far more uncertain future than AR-15s, which are made by dozens of competing manufacturers and are entirely domestic.

damien
March 6, 2009, 02:27 PM
More guns getting sold = Gun ban?

:rolleyes:

Hungry Seagull
March 6, 2009, 02:29 PM
I wonder if the gun rush turned into a sort of a massive stocking up for a post ban or other instrument that will drive pricing profitable.

If so many americans cannot keep homes, how are they expected to maintain thier guns?

Trip after trip into gun shops see ammo rise and fall like the tide.

I was confronted with 5 pages of out of stock at Cabelas online the other day. So much for ammunition for that day.

Makes me wonder if the Manufactors of Ammuntion/Guns are having a good ride on the present Market and if so under what symbols? Same with dealers of large chain type stores and smaller dealers and suppliers?

Several people have indicated they bought not one, not two but maybe 6 or more weapons of a type. Is there a family large enough and old enough to shoot all of these guns?

With that in mind, is the gun rush a simple imaginary dream as one might have when so many apparently are having to choose between food, gas or medicine?

Or worse, are these people buying guns on credit cards because they feel the ... fear or sort of aura of "Stampede fever" as might infect a herd when a small number does get up and run?

You think all guns will be involved in this kind of rush by the USA. But all I see are very small groups of very good weapons almost to the exclusion of all others considered junk or not worth wasting money on.

Finally but not last, why is it that we can replace a gunshop full of new handguns in a week's time but cannot keep sufficient ammuntion on hand at the same store for more than a week.

Surely these store managers KNOW they need to double, triple the order to meet the demands. One pallet of boom at walmart store isnt gonna cut it when it's all bought out before it hits the shelf.

mbt2001
March 6, 2009, 03:02 PM
I don't follow the logic either...

I do agree that this is much like a Hurricane Katrina hitting and there being bare shelves for toilet paper, water and other goods. I think most of the people on this board had some ammo stocks that insulated us... But the average Joe most likely ran out to buy whatever at whatever price further intensifying the shortages.

larry_minn
March 6, 2009, 03:18 PM
I got to a larger town/sportamans warehouse last week. People came in "I want to buy a AR" were first words out of their mouth. The guy behind counter "we don't have any, have waiting list for what we expect next week"
They buy ammo for 4x what I paid yr ago. They look at other guns that they might have on hand. (IMO overpriced) but as they are selling I guess they are not.
I do plan to keep my options open to buy some LNIB guns this summer.

LightningJoe
March 6, 2009, 03:46 PM
Absolutely not. We should all be thankful people are buying. I think a lot of these are first-time buyers. They're effectively buying the guns they should have bought a long time ago. Better late than never. When they wait so long and then all try to buy at the same time, it causes a bottle-neck. But it's still a good thing.

benEzra
March 6, 2009, 03:48 PM
Doesn't make sense to buy a EBR now if ammo prices are going up, unless you plan to shoot your ammo only during some sort of "insurgency", civil war or what other fantasy scenarios the conspiracy theorists like to dream about. For the weekend shooter, I don't see it as being cost effective to own one.
Even at today's prices, 7.62x39mm is still more economical to shoot than pretty much any other centerfire rifle caliber, except perhaps 5.45x39mm (which also happens to be an EBR caliber). Priced .30-30, .270, .308, or .30-06 lately?

leadcounsel
March 6, 2009, 03:57 PM
To clarify, the panic has created a hoarding effect where people 'in the know' started buying over the last 14 months. Those that didn't know or consider, waited. And now due to hoarding it's hard to find reasonable prices on some key items.

Sure, there are guns available. Even some at reasonable prices. But I've been to several post-election gun shows and the prices are insane! Dealer pricing is more in-line and reasonable if they have it in stock. Lower parts kits anyone?

And YES, all this buying is GREAT for our 2nd Amendment cause. But concerning that there is so little inventory that it can all be snapped up relatively quickly.

sernv99
March 6, 2009, 03:58 PM
I found .223 to be the cheapest of the EBR calibers, mostly Wolf stuff. Occasionally I'll see brass cased .308 mil surplus spring up here and there but 7.62x39, forget about it. It's overpriced from what I have been seeing and it's hard to come by to boot.

mbt2001
March 6, 2009, 04:04 PM
7.62x39 has been going for $400 per thousand round recently... 12 months ago, 223 was going for about that price per thousand rounds (now it is higher)... I don't understand why 223 rounds are fine to have, but 7.62x39 are "not worth it".

30-30 is dang near $2.00 per round and people by the crap out of it, have been for years.

chris in va
March 6, 2009, 05:40 PM
I agree, looks like we're bringing a 'gun ban' of our own volition. Heck my Saiga cost less than $300 two years ago...not anymore.

Makes me wonder if the Manufactors of Ammuntion/Guns are having a good ride on the present Market and if so under what symbols

Here's the Olin stock quotes (maker of WWB). Looks like they're losing value quite a bit lately.

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=OLN&sid=3525&dist=TQP_chart_date&freq=1&time=8

CoRoMo
March 6, 2009, 06:00 PM
...and effectively remove many guns from the reach...

Nope. They are all well within our reach. I have not failed to find any of the particular items that are on my list. I bought a gun a within the last couple weeks that I thought would take six months to find. It was at pre-election prices because this particular shop didn't care to spike the price and would rather prefer to let them fly off the shelf within a matter of days of arriving. The panic has created a different atmosphere, but is hasn't removed anything from reach. They may be a little more scarce than a year ago, they might cost more, but they are obtainable. I've seen ammo in 9mm, 45acp, .223/5.56, buckshot, etc. and I've seen tactical rifles, shotguns, hi-cap handguns, you name it. It doesn't sit on the shelves for very long nowadays, but it is definitely acquirable.

damien
March 6, 2009, 06:26 PM
Even at today's prices, 7.62x39mm is still more economical to shoot than pretty much any other centerfire rifle caliber, except perhaps 5.45x39mm (which also happens to be an EBR caliber). Priced .30-30, .270, .308, or .30-06 lately?

8mm Mauser and 7.62x54R are both more powerful and more economical ammunition. Maybe the guns aren't as much fun to shoot as an AK... OTOH, the FN-49 is a lot of fun, I have one of those.

benEzra
March 6, 2009, 08:04 PM
8mm Mauser and 7.62x54R are both more powerful and more economical ammunition. Maybe the guns aren't as much fun to shoot as an AK... OTOH, the FN-49 is a lot of fun, I have one of those.
Good point, I forgot about the old milsurp calibers.

rogertc1
March 6, 2009, 08:58 PM
These past 3 + years I have been buying guns..lots of them. Back in 1994 I could not afford to buy guns. This time I can and I am. I just bought a Hakin ($650) and 900 rds of Yugo 8MM ($300)
Will there be a new AWB...hummmmmmm.. Naw never happen.. the Democrats are pro-gun...

By NRA News, 3/6/2009 8:56:26 AM
On Wednesday, just over five weeks after Inauguration Day, Attorney General Eric Holder announced that the Obama Administration will seek to reinstate the expired federal "assault weapon" ban and impose additional restrictions.

"As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons," Holder said. Based on Holder's testimony during his confirmation hearings before the Senate, those other "changes" presumably include prohibiting private transfers of firearms and banning most center-fire rifle ammunition as "armor-piercing."

Holder said that new gun control laws are needed because in Mexico, a country with a history of corruption and disregard for individual rights, there's a shooting war going on between drug gangs and government troops, and some of the gangsters' guns have been illegally purchased in the United States.

WardenWolf
March 6, 2009, 09:14 PM
Congress has taken notice of our gun buying, though. And it's sending a very clear message to them: America does not WANT an assault weapons ban. It's a much-needed wakeup call.

FireInCairo
March 6, 2009, 09:51 PM
I went gun buying last week and the only .357 magnum you could buy at the standard retailers was the Rossi from Academy sports. There was one small, very expensive, shop that had a Ruger SP-101 and aSmith, but they wanted top dollar. Even the Smith airweights were nowhere to be found. I had to drive an hour and a half outside of the city to get to Cabellas, and they were well-stocked.

FireInCairo
March 6, 2009, 09:55 PM
Oh, and one of the local shops has big sign out front declaring "Gun Ban Coming!" ha ha ha... He had some literature on the gun ban that could potentially go into effect and it's stuff I'm not likely to want or buy.

Autopistola
March 6, 2009, 10:26 PM
I'm lucky I got my ruskie guns and a case of ammo before the prices got unreasonable (roughly september). Too bad I have no income to feed those guns with. I did see progress in this month's Shotgun News though... J&G sales actually posted a price on their WASR's now...$499, that's not too bad considering it was $379 before they stopped replacing prices with "call". Shops still want $650 for the same WASR... I'll take a Mini instead for that price.

PT1911
March 6, 2009, 10:30 PM
guns have only increased around 5 to 10 percent wholesale... the rest is the store robbing you.. the problem is the price of ammunition...

armedandsafe
March 7, 2009, 12:48 AM
I spent the previous 3 days doing an informal survey of retail shops in my small town (shopping population about 40000.)

Sporting goods stores and departments had record sales in February.

Food stores are out of much of the canned and dry foods and overall sales are up.

Thrift stores are getting stripped of clothing and cooking gear.

Second hand stores and pawn shops are selling everything in stock, except the gimcracks.

Auto parts stores saw no deep-winter decline in sales and an increase in fluids and tuneup parts.

Gimcrack stores are withering.

Ranch and feed stores stayed stable.

Hmmmm is there a message here? as in "Stock up now. It's going to be a long, hard time."

Pops

Ben86
March 7, 2009, 12:53 AM
It may not be what Obama was actually planning, ironically it sure feels more restrictive than any gun control I've ever incountered.

solareclipse
March 7, 2009, 02:30 AM
Considering there is a 1-2 year or longer wait for certain AR parts and in certain calibers, yes....

thank the guy who bought 50 rifles and 500000 rounds for each. no joke... i know of somebody who picked up 12 at once. he was in front of me. recession eh

rscalzo
March 7, 2009, 11:05 AM
Housing bubble....gun bubble..... In time it will follow every other bubble history has witnessed. I'm already seeing signs of some having to sell off parts of their collection to make ends meet. Manufacturers are just riding the wave knowing it won't last. No manufacturer is ramping up production, nor are they expanding the facilities. They know it will not last forever and they have no intention of getting caught with excessive production.

As far as store having day to day items in stock, no idea where you live but there isn't any problem getting food and other daily needs. Store are fully stocked. The next year or so will be tough. those that were stupid and spent beyond their means will have to reduce their standards.

as far as the mortgage, the data cited was based on being as little as one month behind. All of a sudden the press no one trusts is taken at face value. They made money pushing out bad news.

chuckusaret
March 7, 2009, 12:00 PM
I have given up on the local gun shops to buy any type of weapon or ammo. The wholesale price of these items has risen 10-15% while the gun stores, in my area, has raised their prices 25-30%. One item in particular , a Mossberg 500 shotgun, has gone from $265 in Nov of 08 to $425 at one local shop. The prices on handguns is even worse. The average price for a Springfield XD is just under $600. I'll buy mine at the gun shows and off the web and still save money.

dbarile
March 7, 2009, 12:02 PM
I have noticed a surplus of AR's at certain stores. The prices aren't too bad either. Mind you they weren't top of the line makes.

Zach S
March 7, 2009, 01:46 PM
Mind you they weren't top of the line makes.
Olys arent too bad, but I still feel sorry for the guy that paid $800 for a Century...

Sixtigers
March 7, 2009, 03:58 PM
Many people are losing their homes. This is a tragedy--for whatever reason. Mistakes were made on both sides of the credit table.

Personal opinion? Guns and ammo aren't bought, for the most part, by people who are in the foreclosure category. I base this on nothing other than my personal opinion. Please don't quote me.

Seems to me that people who, generally, enjoy firearms and firearms sports, and who keep a good amount of ammunition on hand (we all know people who "have a gun", and either haven't shot it in decades or have absolutely no ammo for it) are more generally 'prepared' for hard times.

Times are hard, and we have to limit our spending just like everybody else. We don't go out like we used to, but we still manage to put away a couple of boxes of ammunition every month. Doesn't seem like a lot, but we've been doing this for the last three years. When I go into my ammo storage, and see the amount we've managed to put away, I am thoroughly gratified.

I don't see this as an intended ban by any part of the administration. I didn't vote for the man, but he's my president now, and so far I think he's tackling the right problems, while ignoring the solely political issues.

Doesn't stop me from purchasing the weapons that he "may get around to" in the future, now. I have my priorities. Might be different for my children, as I can't seem to get my 17 year old son interested in shooting at all (how WEIRD is that?!), but for the wife and I, we choose to interpret the 2nd Amendment as giving the citizens of this country the right to refuse tyranny. Such beliefs are better served by actually being able to refuse tyranny, as opposed to lip service. What good are rifles without bullets? Why have a weapon at all (for the purpose of resisting tyranny) if you aren't going to keep bullets for it?

I think most of us get that. For a lot of people, guns are more than a hobby. It's the ultimate expression of American freedom, and a symbol of resistance to those that would take away our liberty. For people like that, a little economic downturn is not going to keep us from believing. And sometimes, you have to believe with your pocketbook--that's just the way it is.

crazy-mp
March 7, 2009, 04:04 PM
Thereís a gun buying panic? Well that explain the vehicle that I saw at Bass Pro this morning with the Obama 08 bumper sticker on his vehicle. Thanks Commerad!!

MatthewVanitas
March 7, 2009, 08:34 PM
Thereís a gun buying panic? Well that explain the vehicle that I saw at Bass Pro this morning with the Obama 08 bumper sticker on his vehicle. Thanks Commerad!!

Oh great, let's tell all the Obama voters that they're not welcome in the gun community. Then they'll really support us when push comes to shove.


From the purely 2A angle, the ideal isn't that people don't vote Democrat, the goal is that shooters be as represented amongst Democrats as they are amongst Republicans. At that point firearms would no longer be a political issue, and many of us wouldn't have to deal with the "well, I hate everything about Politican Y, except he is pretty good on guns."

Maybe the guy with the Obama sticker likes guns, but had perfectly good reasons for really, really, really not liking McCain? You can't expect the entire country to have the same ranking of political priorities as you.

crazy-mp
March 7, 2009, 11:42 PM
Maybe the guy with the Obama sticker likes guns, but had perfectly good reasons for really, really, really not liking McCain? You can't expect the entire country to have the same ranking of political priorities as you.

First, thanks for getting mad about MY freedom of speech

Second, I am not expecting every body to vote like I do or even the people who patronize the same stores I go to, to vote the same as I do. I Was just pointing out that this person voted for the new President, and now is at a store which is 3 hours from the state they were from, and sells large numbers of firearms, ammunition, and even reloading equipment. I know they might have been passing through, on business, a school field trip.... WHATEVER, the point is they contributed to the current state of our country and now they are part of the panic buying crowd. An just so you know I went there to use my rewards points before they expired, that means I have had them for at least a year, sorry I guess I cant be part of the panic buying crowd. Unless not wanting to let my $15.00 to go waste counts as panic buying.

Third, didnít the NRA sponsor at least two different ads right before the election about Senator Obama and his voting record on guns? But thatís right lets go after the one post on a pro-gun forum not a big organization such as the NRA right? Do you get mad about the "I'm in the NRA and I vote" bumper stickers too? or just if there is/was a McCain Palin sticker next to it?

BHP FAN
March 7, 2009, 11:59 PM
''Trip after trip into gun shops see ammo rise and fall like the tide...''

Really?I have yet to see any price drop out here on the Left Coast.

Groundhog92614
March 8, 2009, 12:16 AM
Let's remember that politicians are supposed to represent their constituants, and the same politician representing a city, a state and or a county should and usually does change his policies to reflect the people who will vote for (or against) him.

For example, the politician representing an urban city population will change his position when he seeks election from a state with both rural and urban attitudes, if he wants to be reelected.

Since most people can agree that Obama is a clever politician, it stands to reason that he will seek reelection by pandering to the majority of the people voting.

Also, if we as voters choose to vote for candidates solely on one issue, then we shouldn't be surprised when the candidate doesn't represent our interests on many other issues.

zebco
March 8, 2009, 09:15 AM
The average price for a Springfield XD is just under $600. I'll buy mine at the gun shows and off the web and still save money.

I've been reading some stories on here about some gun stores. Makes me feel almost blessed for the two stores that I do business with. One still has the XD for below $500 (new) and I just bought a new CZ Rami at last year's price. I just bought several boxes of self-defense 10mm ammo for $14.69-16.89 a box. These were bought by the dealers at older prices and have been sitting on the shelves. They did not try to raise the prices, but sold them at prices based upon what they paid. In other words, these two places are not gouging customers.

And, in response to an earlier comment by someone: Maybe I'm alone, but I hardly consider Saigas to be "silly." And, one of my dealers just got a new one in and he priced it at $379. It didn't last long.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun buying panic = psuedo gun ban?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!