Hornady LNL and Powder through expander question


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jmahalek
March 7, 2009, 09:35 PM
I have read all my manuals, but not sure I understand how to set up the case activated powder drop with the drop thru expander.

I want to use my powder thru expander to allow the freed station for a powder cop die or lockout. I bought the expander and am not sure if it is used by itself or in conjunction with the powder bushing. The instructions don't specify, but I assume it replaces or negates the need for one of the three powder bushings inside the die.

Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?

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HD Fboy
March 7, 2009, 11:22 PM
Checkout this You Tube video. I looks at a bunch of You tubes before I ordered my LnL today. I think this will help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAG6OTe7ekw&feature=related

farmrboy
March 8, 2009, 05:34 AM
From what I've been able to figure out on mine, the expander replaces the powder drop tube. I'm not using the thru expanders yet, but plan to as soon as I can get them bought.
Drop the expander into the die and then adjust the die until the rotor on the powder measure bottoms out and the mouth of the case is properly flared.

jmahalek
March 8, 2009, 01:35 PM
Thanks for the video link, but unfortunately he doesn't use the powder thru expander. He uses a separate die after the powder cop to expand the case. May be calling Hornady CS.

Dynamite Rabbit
March 8, 2009, 04:28 PM
This is how it works:

The drop tube is screwed into the bottom of the powder measure. The powder-through-expander drops into the bottom part of the case-activated feed, then the drop tube goes in on top of the expander, then you connect the linkage and spring. Make sense?

jmahalek
March 9, 2009, 10:32 AM
Thanks, all. I called Hornady and the powder thru expander takes the place of the bushing (don't use them both simultaneously).

Shrinkmd
March 14, 2009, 10:36 PM
I was reading the comments on MidwayUSA and it seems like people have had unsatisfactory results belling the cases with the powder through expanders. Is this a widespread problem, or did a few people get bad parts?

goose2
March 15, 2009, 12:45 AM
I use the Loc n load with the H 3 die pistol dies. In hole #1 I use the re sizer, decapper all in one die, In #2 goes the case flare die. In #3 goes the powder measure. In #4 goes the powder cop. In #5 goes the bullet seat, bullet crimp all in one die. That is how mine is set up and all I can say is wow. That thing will flat load the ammo. It is a joy to use along with Hornady customer service. I have been a Dillon man for my shotshell loading but the loc n load is as good as it gets for metallic.

Shrinkmd
March 15, 2009, 08:15 AM
I was thinking that I could just set up a taper crimp in my single stage and have a taper crimp/drop into case gauge stage at then end for final inspection. It would be nice if the powder through expander actually worked as it should. I guess Hornady can work on it.

Unflappable
March 15, 2009, 11:45 AM
In response to post #7, people having trouble with the powder thru expander probably don't really know how to use the LNL AP. Look at the picture in post #5, see where the bracket is attached to the threaded part of the powder drop? By simply moving this bracket higher on the threads it will make a deeper, wider bell. You still make the final adjustments by raising or lowering the powder drop in the bushing, but if setting the the powder drop all way down in the bushing until it almost touches the shell plate doesn't give a good bell, this is the simple 2 minute fix.
Unflappable

Shrinkmd
March 15, 2009, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the advice. Once all this stuff comes off of backorder I will hopefully get a chance to give it a try!

psychephylax
March 27, 2009, 12:33 AM
(Forgive me, I'm new)

My Powder through Expander adapters came with instructions that the belling isn't adjustable. I've attempted to change the amount of bell by unscrewing the powder drop tube and the results really didn't change much. This has been my experience with 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP expanders.

They do bell, but they bell so little you have to either really push the bullet into the casing or run the press really slow to keep the bullet from falling off/tilting on the brass. I really wish this worked better because I would like to seat and crimp in different stages while still having a powder check die in the press.

Master Blaster
March 27, 2009, 08:38 AM
They do bell, but they bell so little you have to either really push the bullet into the casing or run the press really slow to keep the bullet from falling off/tilting on the brass. I really wish this worked better because I would like to seat and crimp in different stages while still having a powder check die in the press.


Same here, and if you are doing .45 acp because of the short cartridge, you do need an additional bushing, the through powder expander is too short.

At maximum belling I had problems getting enough bell for my cast lead bullets. I now use the belling die instead.

Shrinkmd
March 27, 2009, 08:50 AM
Does Hornady know about these problems? You would think that they would try to remedy the situation, especially since they are competing with so many other companies for progressive presses.

jmahalek
March 27, 2009, 10:39 AM
Agreed. I went back to the belling die in station 2 and took the powder cop die out in station 3. LSWC are loading fine now. I think I'll just go with FMJ from now on as I don't have a problem with them using the powder thru expander.

Unflappable
March 27, 2009, 12:50 PM
Friends, please read post #10 again. It is a very simple fix to get the powder through expander die to work properly.
Unflappable

Fred40
April 5, 2009, 03:10 AM
Well Unflappable I must concur with some of the others here that this expander does not and CAN NOT bell the case enough.

I just got the powder through expander and set it up. I guarantee you I set it up correctly. In fact after expanding a case I took the powder drop out and removed the expander. I then took the case I had just belled on it and hand fitted it ALL THE WAY onto the expander. This told me that I had set it up to bell the case as much as it possibly could.

It was not enough.....not by a long shot. I could barely set a bullet on top and very slowly (and I mean slowly) advance it to the seating die without it tipping over. At any sort of normal speed the bullets would just tip over because they were not sitting deep enough into the case. In some cases I was getting lead shavings from the bullet as it seated!

Maybe it works for jacketed bullets....I have no idea. I only reload 200gr. LSWC's and for those it's as good as useless.

realbuffdriver
April 5, 2009, 02:19 PM
You might want to read this thread:

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7738

Dynamite Rabbit
April 5, 2009, 02:26 PM
Mine works fine with .357 Mag (both lead and jacketed bullets). I believe the radius at the top is what does the belling -- it's critical that the case gets pushed hard against that shoulder.

bfox
April 7, 2009, 02:11 AM
You might want to read this thread:

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7738

I started that thread on Glockpost .
The ones that Dan is making are Great and you don't have to buy one for each caliber .

Bill

bfox
April 15, 2009, 02:07 AM
Here is a Website for a powder threw expander that I talked about in the above post and it does work Great .

http://www.lnlptx.com/products.html

Bill

Waldog
April 15, 2009, 12:00 PM
Like Unflappable (#10) said, you have to adjust the clamp on the powder measure so that the drop tube goes DEEPER into the powder die.

The powder-thru expanders work perfectly. It's just that they are hard to adjust. People have trouble (MYSELF INCLUDED) when they don't know how to adjust the die/linkage. The instructions with the case drop are terrible. In order to get the proper "belling" you have to make TWO adjustments. First adjust is the powder die AND, THEN THE LINKAGE CLAMP ON THE THREADED PORTION OF THE POWDER MEASURE. This is where the instructions fail.

Here is what I did. I adjusted the system to get the proper belling on the shortest case I reload. In this case the 9mm. I then purchased extra powder dies from Grafs.com (About $14 each) for each pistol case I load and adjusted each POWDER DIE for each case. I then mark the die with a "Sharpie" signifying 40 S&W, 45ACP, 357 mag, etc. If you adjust the powder measure linkage clamp to load your SHORTEST case, you then only have to adjust a POWDER DIE for the "bell you want. With extra Powder Dies, I can swap out calibers in about 30seconds.

I load lead bullets all the time and have never "shaved" lead a a result of not enough "bell". I will say that most of us reloaders "bell" too much. A proper "bell" is barely perceptable.

bfox
April 15, 2009, 12:22 PM
The beauty of the one I posted about you don't have to buy a separate one for each caliber .
I got to be Friends with a Guy on another forum that started making these and I really do think they are Great !

Bill

PsychoKnight
April 15, 2009, 01:11 PM
Can people stop saying that those who are having trouble belling just don't know what they are doing?

Its a matter of physics.

Just measure the maximum belling diameter portion of the powder through expanders on Lee, Lyman (manual measure), Dillon, and Hornady and you will see that the Hornady is significantly smaller than any of the others, at least with the .45 calibers I shoot (.455, acp & gap).

In glocktalk a couple years ago, I posted a picture of all these expanders lined up side by side and gave measurements to demonstrate my point - not going to bother doing that again.

The Hornady expanders are simply undersized and there is no easy fix for it.

I use a separate Redding expander only plug-die and it works great. Gave up on the powder cop - never got used to it. Anybody want to buy it?

Waldog
April 16, 2009, 03:25 AM
PsychoKnight, I am not being argumentative but, how do you explain that some of us use the expanders with 100% success and others fail?

I had a heck of a time adjusting the expanders until someone told me HOW on another forum(thefiringline). The Powder-thru Expanders WORK, plan and simple. You just have to adjust them properly.

Unflappable
April 16, 2009, 05:01 PM
PsychoKnight, if you have bullets that are .455 in diameter then this most certainly is a problem. I agree that for bullets that large that the Hornady Powder through expander die won't work. It's designed for .451 bullets, maybe up to .452. Maybe it is only designed for jacketed bullets as has been suggested.
I've not a seen a commercially available bullet of .455 diameter for 45 ACP or GAP. Are these your own cast bullets? A bullet of that diameter loaded into the commercial cases that I use might not even chamber in my 1911.
The SAAMI spec calls for a max diameter at the case mouth of .473. The case wall thickness of my cases run about .011-.012 (winchester, federal, etc). With a bullet diameter of .451 I get a total width of .473-.475 (case wall thickness X 2 plus bullet diameter) This is a calculated size but I just measured some of my reloads and they avg about .472.
With a .455 bullet you would be up as much as .479. That definitely would not fit freely in the chamber of my 1911 with match barrel. Probably not in my plastic guns either. I'm curious to know more about these big bullets and their purpose.
Why not order one of the Powder Through Expander dies mentioned by bfox at this link:
http://www.lnlptx.com/products.html
I ordered one since I need a PTX die for 9 mm. I'll let you know how it works.

As for the Powder cop, is it a visual check only? I use the RCBS Lockout die and love it. You don't have to look at it, it just locks up the press if you over or undercharge a case. Highly recommended.
Unflappable

Wallye
December 11, 2009, 08:29 AM
I have been trying to set up the .355 for 9MM and it just will not do it
It is OK using the 357 for the .357 but the 9MM one does not bell the brass? I have tried to move the braket on the Case Activated Powder Drop but it upsets the geometry of the levers etc. The way the Case Activated Powder Drop when assemebled from the factory seems to be the optimum setting so ajusting that just messes up the whole linkage setting. I personally feel the 9MM powder through expanader is just a whisker too short and it is annoying the hell out of me so I am still using the Lee 1000 for my 9MM

Shrinkmd
December 11, 2009, 09:12 AM
Why not order one of the Powder Through Expander dies mentioned by bfox at this link:
http://www.lnlptx.com/products.html
I ordered one since I need a PTX die for 9 mm. I'll let you know how it works.


I have been using the PTX above for 45, 38, and 357 so far. It performs flawlessly.

nelson133
December 11, 2009, 10:06 AM
I have been reloading close to 40 years and when I bought my LNL a couple of years ago, I bought the Hornady expanders. What a waste of time and money they were. I read the manual and talked to tech support and spent many hours trying to get a decent bell for cast bullets on all my pistol calibers.
I finally ordered one of the after market ones referenced above, problem solved and one expander fits all calibers. My recommendation is to steer clear of the Hornady ones.

bfox
December 11, 2009, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Why not order one of the Powder Through Expander dies mentioned by bfox at this link:
http://www.lnlptx.com/products.html
I ordered one since I need a PTX die for 9 mm. I'll let you know how it works.

Here is an updated link
http://www.powderfunnels.com/

SteveW-II
December 11, 2009, 06:57 PM
I use the 357 and 45 powder through expander 'dies' for both cast and jacketed and they work just fine. Each expander lives in the box with the appropriate dies and its all neat and tidy. I agree that the set up is 'fiddly' but as I have a quick change powder die for each caliber, once its done, it's done.

tul9033
February 2, 2010, 02:18 AM
Has anyone had any issue with the PTX hitting the base plate and raising the powder drop arm with no shell in the shell plate? Wondering if this is normal. The powder drop arm is coming up about .75". I'm loading .45 ACP hard cast, probably the widest flare I will need so the PTX will be at it's lowest point.
Thanks

BTW, this is powder funnels PTX.

mongoose33
February 2, 2010, 08:18 AM
Has anyone had any issue with the PTX hitting the base plate and raising the powder drop arm with no shell in the shell plate? Wondering if this is normal. The powder drop arm is coming up about .75". I'm loading .45 ACP hard cast, probably the widest flare I will need so the PTX will be at it's lowest point.

Thanks

BTW, this is powder funnels PTX.

I use the same PTX for loading .45 and I've not had any problems with it hitting the shellplate.

bfox
February 2, 2010, 01:06 PM
http://www.powderfunnels.com/

tul9033
February 3, 2010, 12:12 AM
I assume you linked to the site for the FAQ? It was my first stop BTW. I've read it and made adjustments with the same results. The powder drop arm must travel fully to top of it's extension for the flare to happen. If I raise the bracket I must screw the powder assembly down to get he proper flare. I'm not seeing how to get around having the PTX at the same position to get the proper flare, which still ends up with the PTX touching the base plate (not the shell plate).
Perhaps I'm missing something, I suppose I will continue to experiment.

http://www.powderfunnels.com/

bfox
February 3, 2010, 03:43 AM
I want to see if this was what you were talking about .
I have this happen with the 45auto on my Lnl

Dan that makes them is a net Friend on different forums .
Here is his reply .


In short, yes we do see that from time to time with the larger cal rounds like 45 Auto, 500 S&W and so forth.

Unless you're not running progressively you will not experience the movement. It's just a slight bump of the powder measure drum, not enough to activate it. I've received this question a few times. Might add it to the FAQ

tul9033
February 3, 2010, 10:28 AM
I want to see if this was what you were talking about .
I have this happen with the 45auto on my Lnl

Dan that makes them is a net Friend on different forums .
Here is his reply .


In short, yes we do see that from time to time with the larger cal rounds like 45 Auto, 500 S&W and so forth.

Unless you're not running progressively you will not experience the movement. It's just a slight bump of the powder measure drum, not enough to activate it. I've received this question a few times. Might add it to the FAQ
Thank you for the follow up, I just wasn't seeing how to adjust that bump out. Now I have confirmation and it does not appear that the powder measure rotates past the point where you can still see it (it would not drop powder).
BTW, I am using a progressive.

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