[parisite]

Seems like the fad at this particular point in time is a lot of wheel gun people going to double action only and no hammer spur. Is this the case?

I've always enjoyed having the option to shoot the gun in what ever mode the situation deemed appropriate, single-action or double-action.

Me personally, I enjoy competing with a couple of buddies shooting 99.99% of the time in S/A trying to see how small a group of ten shots we can make on a target 25 yards away.

Is this style of shooting ancient history?

[The Lone Haranguer]

I like it on a pocket revolver, not so much on a belt-carried one.

Some "gun pundits" - notably Mas Ayoob - do recommend the mod on defensive revolvers. It removes any chance that the revolver could be cocked manually and unintentionally fired.

[MrBorland]

A fad? In some ways, I hope so. Nothing wrong with SA, but many revo shooters don't practice their DA shooting, and aren't sufficiently proficient as a result, so I see The Fad as a good thing, at least for now. That being said, if The Fad creates a generation of SA-deficient shooters, I suppose that would represent somewhat of a lost skill, though I tend to think DA is the mode more at risk of going that route.

Without having both in their repertoire, shooters have a glaring deficiency, and if they rely on a wheelgun as a defense weapon, that deficiency ought not be DA shooting.

I converted my 686 to DAO because I shoot it combat action style, and conversion to DAO helped sweeten the trigger. I also have others that remain DA/SA, including a K-22 and K-38 that I shoot both ways.

Me personally, I enjoy competing with a couple of buddies shooting 99.99% of the time in S/A trying to see how small a group of ten shots we can make on a target 25 yards away.

Yeah, I agree that's fun. I recently started doing this in SA, but I can tell you it's very satisfying when you're able to do this just as well in DA too. With either hand.

[9mmepiphany]

if you use a DA wheelgun for defense/combat, the correct way to use it is in DA.

if you're going to use it that way, the hammer becomes a liability as it could snag...plus you'll be tempted to cock the hammer for a SA shot.

becoming proficient with the DA trigger pull will actually make you a better shot in SA...less tendency to develope the habit of snatching at the trigger.

i don't think there is an accuracy advantage to shooting a wheelgun in SA...at least out to 50yards. all the top shooters in PPC used to shoot the 50yard stage (24 rounds) DAO. back when the wheelgun ruled Bianchi Cup, everyone shot the course DA

[stalkingbear]

I think it makes perfect sense for pocket/CCW revolvers to be DAO or "hammerless". That way, the last piece that will hang up while concealed drawing/firing has been removed. Naturally I'm talking shrouded hammer versions in this case. As to full size, or regular revolvers, they benefit greatly from retaining SA/DA action. I still shoot most of my magnum revolvers in SA the majority of the time.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Spurless or concealed hammer DAO revolvers have been around well over a century, so this is hardly anything new. I think it is more "small but devoted following" rather than "fad." ;)

[rdrancher]

A fad? Maybe, but probably more of an evolution of revolvers used for self-defense, because that's what we typically see discussed here on the net.

Shocking as it may be to some, in "the real world", there are other uses for smallish, fairly lightweight, revolvers other than self-defense. Walking in the woods, fishing, hunting, performing ranch duties (for me anyway.) I want the convenient size and weight of a snubby, but I want the option of SA too...just in case.

rd

[FireInCairo]

I'm new to handgun ownership, but I'm glad the option is available. It makes no sense for someone like me (buying for personal protection/concealed pocket carry) would want an exposed hammer. I have no interest in firing in SA mode because this is a tool I want to use to protect myself and my family. It would be highly unlikely that I would operate it in SA in a self defense situation, so I will train with it in the manner in which I intend to use it. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy shooting it. I'm looking it at pragmatically, though.

[JWF III]

I have questioned (in my mind) the usefullness of DAO vs. SA/DA. I've always had revolvers with a hammer, so I thought that was the best for everything. I was wrong. I recently bought a S&W M&P 360 for use as a carry weapon. after playing with it for a week or two, I desided I should have gotten the 340. I do like the 360, but as a carry weapon, the hammer has a chance to get caught on any loose piece of clothing. Murphy's Law can rear it's ugly head given the chance. For now I'll be content with it as it is, but eventually I'll be carrying a DAO pocket revolver.

Wyman

[dairycreek]

Just a personal opinion here! I think the reason so many shooters tend to "hang on" to their "hammer guns" is because they never take the time or opportunity to get really proficient with DAO shooting and, thus, hang on to shooting single action. Just my opinion but I think it holds some credence.

[john1911]

Depends on the intended use. A self defense piece is better off as DAO or shrouded hammer. A range, hunting, woodsbumming or general fun gun is fine with an exposed hammer and the ability to shoot SA.

My experience is that shooting a revolver DA is becoming less common. The people I shoot with (admittedly small group) either shoot semis or want to cock the hammer on DA revolvers for every shot. They don't want to attempt to master the DA trigger.

[ArmedBear]

It's only a "fad" insofar as CCW has been growing a lot, and therefore even many experienced shooters with safes full of guns, people who ordinarily collect and trade guns, and haven't bought a new gun in years, are going to the store and buying a 642 or similar revolver.

I like shooting double as well as single action. Each has its place. I wouldn't want a revolver and not be able to shoot it DA and SA, if it offers both.

A DAO is a specialized gun for carrying. Most DAOs sold are lightweights, another carry-specialized feature.

I almost bought an old CHP Model 60 .38 Special stainless snubbie. Neat gun. It had a hammer spur, but it had been gunsmithed to be DAO. Seems the CHP used to spec DAO backup guns. The idea is hardly new, and they even modified hammer spur guns to conform to the spec.

[Old Fuff]

If it's a fad it's nothing new. The practice started during the 19th century as soon as "trigger cocking" handguns became available. Today there are two sound reasons for the practice, but they don’t apply to everyone.

1. Lawyers with questionable ethics have been known to bring wrongful death suits in cases of a justifiable shooting, claiming that the “victim” was accidentally killed, when the shooter covered someone with a cocked revolver and unintentionally touched a (so called) hair trigger. This is mostly B.S., but they were successful enough to cause a number of large police and sheriff departments as well as some federal agencies to change to double-action-only revolvers – with or without hammer spurs.

2. Some hammer spurs are so badly designed that they will abrade a hole through a covering jacket, shirt, or whatever, and snag when the user tries to draw. A similar problem with pocket guns should be obvious. Besides bobbing the hammer spur, a possible solution is a holster that will cover the hammer spur, but there is still the possibility of getting the spur caught during a draw.

If neither if these things concern you by all means leave your S.A./D.A. revolver as it is.

[earplug]

If your going for a very light DA trigger for a game gun such as Steel, or USPSA taking the hammer spur off and lighting the hammer will help achive a light reliable DA trigger pull.
I haven't measured it, but on my SA gun that has some weight reduction on the hammer the lock time and hammer fall bounce seems less.
The no snag effect is nice too.

[Kleanbore]

An answer:

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/daovdasa.htm

[scottishclaymore]

Anybody who wants to learn to shoot their revolver seriously ought to be able to master the DA trigger. When I shoot my snub, I stick to DAO. My snubbie has a pretty smooth trigger pull, so there is not actually much of a difference anyway.

That said, it's still got a hammer spur. I'll probably get a shrouded or hammerless job one of these days... For now, though, this is working fine.

[BigBlock]

It's only a fad on the internet because people think they're extra cool when they can post a pic of a revolver that they chopped something off of. As far as real life goes...most people use a hammer...and that is evident by the extreme lack of used hammerless revolvers.

It serves no purpose if you've practiced pulling your gun more than once, and you're only nuetering an otherwise nice revolver. Just because you don't NEED the hammer is not a good reason to cut it off.

[ArmedBear]

a revolver that they chopped something off of

Uh, they ship that way from Smith and Taurus (probably the two most popular makers of light CCW revolvers), and Ruger's new lightweight offering is also hammerless.

Not sure what you mean...

[Glockman17366]

Before they went to semi-autos, a lot of city cops were only issued DAO revolvers. NYC for sure, and I think Baltimore as well, were issued DOA revolvers.
This was to minimize unintentional shootings.
Considering the number of shootings by LEO's, I'm of the opinion we should return to the 5 or 6 shot DAO revolver to instill trigger discipline.

I carried a spurred hammer revolver for a lot of years. I carry a shrouded hammer gun now, but that's for easier draw and less wear on my clothing.

I don't care for DOA revolvers, personally. I do like to be able to cock, which I can with my shrouded hammer revolver.

[Jim K]

Hi, Earplug,

To fire caps reliably, a certain momentum is required. Momentum equals velocity time mass. If you reduce the mass of an already light hammer, and either reduce or leave the mainspring alone, you are asking for misfires. The increased hammer speed will not be enough to make up for the loss of mass.

If you don't want to use the single action, buy a DAO gun; they are made to have the right balance of mass and velocity in the hammer.

FWIW, S&W still makes the Bodyguard, as slick as a hammerless, but it can still be cocked.

Jim

[earplug]

I shot my S&W 625 today with sixty other pistols shooters. I was the only wheel gun.
I have been the only wheel gun shooter for the majority of the matches I enter. This shows me that few wheel gun owners practice enough DA work to be confident in public.
The light hammer works better for a seven pound DA trigger or less. If you do some research on modern gunsmithing for DA revolvers you will find that a light hammer is better. Check out Randy Lee's after market hammer for a start.
The lighter hammer swings faster hits harder. I wouldn't cut the hammer spur off and grind the guts out of a perfectly good hammer if it didn't make it work better.
This is the same principle of the various speed hammers on 1911 competition guns.

[Old Fuff]

I would note that earplug is apparently using a .45 / N-frame Smith & Wesson, (Model 625) that has a large and relatively heavy hammer with a longer distance between the pivot point and firing pin in the first place. If one is willing to sacrifice reliability they can achieve a light 6 to 8 pound trigger pull that may be considered acceptable on revolvers used for combat games. This was a common practice on PPC guns, but these revolvers were never considered to be applicable for other more serious purposes.

However if one downsizes to a little J-frame that may be carried as a weapon, the points raised by Jim Keenan are very valid indeed. J-frame hammers, with or without spurs, have nothing like the mass found in an N-frame hammer. The also have coil, rather then leaf mainsprings.

It would be a mistake to compare lemons with apples.

[MatthewVanitas]

and that is evident by the extreme lack of used hammerless revolvers.

"Extreme lack"? S&W seems to be selling absolute tons of the Model 642 and similar Centennial-derived models.

Concealed hammers don't seem terribly common on sizes larger than J-frame, and shrouded hammers aren't very "in" right now, but a very large number of J-frame revolvers and equivalents are concealed or bobbed hammer, at least in the last 10 years or so.


Just because you don't NEED the hammer is not a good reason to cut it off.

Not very many folks "cut it off", most buy revolvers without the hammer in the first place. Secondly, the aforementioned lack of snag/wear is a great justification for not having a hammer.

A true concealed hammer (Centennial) is even better, since there's no hammer slot at all, eliminating the easiest path for lint and grit to fall down into the mechanism.

[Revolver Ocelot]

i prefer no hammer on something i plan on carrying, whether it be in the pocket or on a belt. I just like it as it reduces the opprutunity for a snag

[jtwig]

I thought this 625 needed a spurless hammer and didn't want to cut or grind on the factory parts, so I made one for it. Still have the original parts... just in case I change my mind.
Did the conversion reduce lock-time? Hard to tell. Did it reduce perceived trigger pull? Maybe, but it does feel smoother. It has, nevertheless, reduced the "snag" factor.

http:///Users/home/Pictures/iPhoto Library/Originals/2009/Feb 28, 2009/IMG_2370.JPG

[Bill2e]

For any of you PODCAST listeners go and find the most recent podcast from PROARMS PODCAST.

The episod is on triggers & hair triggers. They cave this topic very well. Massod Ayoob is one of the hosts. It is a newer posd cast, but very informative,

[hinton03]

And the solution is.....

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=91832&d=1233178236

The best of both worlds.

[jtwig]

Hopefully with this, my fourth attempt, there will be an image... not real handy with this computer stuff....
94150

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I've always enjoyed having the option to shoot the gun in what ever mode the situation deemed appropriate, single-action or double-action.

Me too, but I've discovered you can still do with with a gun with NO hammer spur - it's easy. When at the range, start the DA pull slowly with your trigger finger. Then when it's about 1/2 way back, grab it with your offhand thumb and finish cocking it and then, voila, you can shoot it single action as much as you wish. It's easy, and you still retain the snag-free draw of the hammer-spur-less gun.

There won't be any other time that SA shooting will be appropriate, since in self-defense, you'd shoot in DA only. But if necessary, you could do the same thing described in a self-defense scenario - by practicing it, it becomes easy.

[Old Fuff]

Dr Tad:

I know of several people who tried your system and ended up making a hole in something they didn't intend to... :eek: ;)

[MrBorland]

Me too, but I've discovered you can still do with with a gun with NO hammer spur - it's easy. When at the range, start the DA pull slowly with your trigger finger. Then when it's about 1/2 way back, grab it with your offhand thumb and finish cocking it and then, voila, you can shoot it single action as much as you wish.

I have to agree with Old Fuff on this one. What happens if you need to de-cock for whatever reason? Possible to do, of course, but very tricky. I'd prefer any revolver of mine without a spur to also not have a SA sear.

I had my 686 converted to DAO, and discovered the SA wasn't ground off. I simply assumed it would be and never asked about it ahead of time. It's a range gun only, and I'm the likely only one who shoots it, but still...

[rdrancher]

There won't be any other time that SA shooting will be appropriate, since in self-defense, you'd shoot in DA only. But if necessary, you could do the same thing described in a self-defense scenario - by practicing it, it becomes easy.

Sorry Doc...

But this is exactly what I eluded to in my previous post. You, as well as the many of those responding in this post and others assume that there are only two uses for a revolver - range or self-defense use. In the real world there's a whole lot more places where SA can be used.

If one if my kids, my wife's $20k horse, or one of my dogs is endangered while I'm working around the property, it'll be an SA shot for me (even though I'm proficient at DA.) It may be a shot at a longer distance than I'd like and need to be taken immediately - and it better be a damn good one. That's just one scenario.

rd

[Kleanbore]

Shocking as it may be to some, in "the real world", there are other uses for smallish, fairly lightweight, revolvers other than self-defense. Walking in the woods, fishing, hunting, performing ranch duties (for me anyway.) I want the convenient size and weight of a snubby, but I want the option of SA too...just in case.

Yes indeed. And for me anyway, the best urban casual CCW hardware (very light gun, snag-free, no protruding sights) doesn't really cut if very well for those uses. That's not true for everyone.

I had bought a Model 60 with a hammer, reasonable sights, and 3 inch barrel before I knew enough to choose a gun for CCW. For me anyway, it didn't cut if for CCW in town.

So, along came a 442. I now have both.

[Glockman17366]

But this is exactly what I eluded to in my previous post. You, as well as the many of those responding in this post and others assume that there are only two uses for a revolver - range or self-defense use. In the real world there's a whole lot more places where SA can be used.

For suburban and urban carry, those little DAO or shrouded snubbies are great, and IMHO, the best choice (in the contest of this thread's subject).
On the ranch is a different story. You're in a different environment and you need a different tool...a 4" .357 with spurred hammer, for example. Hell, even a big old Ruger Blackhawk would be nice for ranch use...but not so good for urban carry.

The tool has got to fit the job at hand, and, one size does not fit all (so to speak).

[BigBlock]

For those of you getting snagged, you need more practice drawing. You should immediately put your thumb over the hammer before you draw anyway.

I keep a full size 4" GP100 in my pocket (not a holster) and the hammer has never caught on anything. To draw I grab the grip and put my thumb on the hammer - so it doesn't get caught, and I can cock it if I need to.

[tipoc]

The tool has got to fit the job at hand...

A good point.

Wheelguns with the hammer ground off and rendered incapable of sa shooting have been around for over a century. The point of these modifications was that they were pocket carry guns or concealed carry in an urban environment. The idea being that they were less likely to snag on a quick draw and could, in a pinch be fired from inside a pocket or a bag. Old Fitzsimmons of Colt carried two Colt New Services in .45 Colt in his pants pockets and promoted these mods and a few others for just such purposes.

The same general purpose is accomplished by hammer shrouds or by the S&W Bodyguard type guns. Both of these types are capable of a sa shot if need be.

A hammer on a gun doesn't mean that a shooter can't shoot da. Neither does it mean that a shooter will fall so in love with sa shooting that they do not make the effort to learn to shoot da well. If a shooter doesn't practice shooting da it's because they made the mistake of choosing not to. It's not the siren call of the hammer.

It's a mistake to believe that you'll never need a single action shot in a defensive situation, urban or rural. It may not be likely but then neither are mall shootings or shootings in crowded public places like churches or Universities. Not common but they do happen.

If a fella believes that one can shoot as accurately da as they can sa it's either because they do not shoot sa very well or because they are just flat out wrong. The strength of da shooting is in it's speed in close range encounters. A good wheelgunner will tell you they can shoot almost as accurately in slow da as they can in fast sa at a distance of 25 yards and beyond. But that's "almost".

Now I have two hammerless guns. A S&W 640 and a M66 modified by a cop to be dao and hammerless. I like 'em both. Both snag free. I can also draw my M19 without a snag by covering the spur with my thumb on the draw.

Hammerless guns have been around a long time and they will continue to be. For many it's a worthwhile modification applicable to some modes of carry and situations. But it has become trendy lately fueled by gun mags and some who believe that it makes them appear to be a "serious" pistolero. Bill Jordan never cared for them and I recall him being "serious".

tipoc

[MCgunner]

Me, I don't really give a nit what everyone else does or the "experts" say. I like the spur and refuse to cut it off the little Taurus. It works to retain the gun in my UM's ankle rig, got to have it with that holster. It doesn't seem to catch on anything from a pocket, either. I naturally go with the thumb to the hammer on the draw being so into Blackhawks and other single actions all my life, learned on a single action .22. I shoot quite well DA and will shoot DA for defense up close, but I like the SA for 25 yards and out, which yeah, I like to do with all my revolvers, even my snubs. I don't care if all gun fights are at 3 feet, don't give a dang. I enjoy plinking, so sue me. :neener: The little Taurus has a wonderful DA trigger and I do like to plink DA with it at 25 yards, but I see no reason to cut off a very useful device in the interest of fashion or to prove my manlihood or whatever is the fad now days.


I keep a full size 4" GP100 in my pocket (not a holster) and the hammer has never caught on anything.

Good lord! Do you attract a lot of hookers on Main street? :D My jeans have huge pockets, but not THAT huge. :eek:

[Old Fuff]

Bill Jordan never cared for them (bobbed hammers) and I recall him being "serious".

Several of his pet revolvers, including a favored S&W Model 19 had bobbed hammers. I know because I handeled them.

[tipoc]

I never read of that Old Fuff and I have read him speak against it. So thanks for the info. My point is that it's up to the needs and desires of the shooter. Trends and fads come and go. Spurless guns have been around for some time now and some find them useful in some situations. If a fella wants to so modify their piece or buy one so made, I have no argument. It's not the prescence or abscence of a hammer spur that makes a gun useful or "serious" mostly it's the shooter. :)

tipoc

[Old Fuff]

You're right, it is up to the individual. The purpose of these threads is to lay the cards on the table so that an informed decision can be made. Never, ever would I suggest that everyone should cut off all of they're hammer spurs because of the "cool factor." What ever one does it should be for a good reason.

Bill did not cut off the hammer spurs on all of his double-action revolvers either. But you may notice that his holster design was low-cut, and the checkering on some S&W hammer spurs can cut like a rasp! Also he tended to grip the handle toward the high side, and didn't want the bottom of the hammer spur to pinch the web of his hand between the thumb and forefinger. If you ever saw his hands, let along the size of the man you'd know what I mean.

He also didn't recommend that others bob the hammer, unless they had a reason to, and the first thing to do was perfect their double-action shooting ability. ;)

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I know of several people who tried your system and ended up making a hole in something they didn't intend to..

Well, they didn't follow rule #1. I only do this at the range, so there's no chance of accident - even if the hammer slips, the only thing perforated is the berm.

As for de-cocking, yes, I could see that as a potential big problem if you cocked the gun during a self-defense scenario, but then didn't need to fire after all. :eek: If that happened, I would wrap nylon cord around the hammer so that it could not fall until I got to the range or a sand bucket to attempt to de-cock or just fire. Or, better yet, don't do it - in a self-defense situation, with a snubbie, rest assured I will be shooting DA or not at all. I don't see it as the slightest bit unsafe when I do it at the range.

[MCgunner]

Wow, I wonder how many times Wyatt Earp had to decock after drawing down on some drunk? I hope he lived close to a range with a berm. :D :rolleyes:

I suppose there are good reasons to follow those four safety rules, eh? You know, like "keep the muzzle in a safe direction" type stuff? Some of you folks need some safety orientation.

[Landric]

Obviously the best choice is what works for the indiviual shooter.

Of my revolvers, only three have hammer spurs, and if I find the right gunsmith or spurless hammers for sale, none of them will. I shot a lot of IDPA (and I've been using a revolver this year). I find I shoot better DA even at longer ranges.

For me, DA-Only is best in a revolver, YMMV.

[MCgunner]

Anyone that thinks they can shoot DA with more precision than SA is deluding themselves. Try it at 100 yards, see if you can group as well. I do a lot of 100 and 200 yard handgun shooting. Yeah, I shot a lot of IDPA, was expert class, but I also enjoyed IHMSA for a while. I didn't see ANYONE, NOT ONE SOUL, firing DA on 200 yard rams. :rolleyes: I don't know any hunters that have spurless hammers, either. I don't need no stinkin' spurless hammer on my pocket revolver. I can get on target just as fast and I can still plink at 100 yards with it, which I like to do on occasion. I'm a country boy, ain't privy to the extreme intelligence and gunfighting expertise it takes to live in the big city, I guess. :rolleyes: I've never even been in a real gunfight. Damn, I must do that someday. :rolleyes: When I do go to the big city, I AM usually carrying a DAO auto, though. I admit my little pocket DAO auto is my carry most of the time unless I'm headed out fishing. It's not stainless and my snubby is. . Besides, DA is not compatible with most real world outdoor shooting.

You know what I've shot the most of besides steel plates with my snubby? I mean living things. I've popped a few hogs in the trap with it, but the most things I've shot are sharks. I find a well placed shot to a sharks feeble brain will tranquilize him nicely using .38 special. Any shark I hang that is too big to grab behind the head with one hand or needs to be gaffed to get in the boat gets tranquilized. I've always used SA to do that and it's at about 10 feet! I've also taken the head off a couple of rattlers in the field, again about 10 feet, again SA.

I'm keeping my hammer spur.

[Old Fuff]

Landric:

Of my revolvers, only three have hammer spurs, and if I find the right gunsmith or spurless hammers for sale, none of them will.

What make and models do you have in mind? :evil:

[Glockman17366]

Anyone that thinks they can shoot DA with more precision than SA is deluding themselves. Try it at 100 yards, see if you can group as well...

In a self defense situation, we're not worrying about 100 yards or even 100 feet...more like 5 feet.

Now, the OP isn't specifying defensive use in this thread, just a fad he's observed of no hammer spur and DAO revolvers. I haven't seen any inkling of this fad. The only DAO revolvers I've seen were snubbies designed for self defense carry. The biggest were large bore snubbies for close encounters with larger critters when hiking (I suppose). But still, self defense was the design intent of the gun.

However, I've never seen DOA revolvers used strictly for target shooting at 100 yards.

So, going back to my previous post (#34)...select the right tool for the job.

[Landric]

Old Fluff:

What make and models do you have in mind?

A 681-3, 21-4, and Taurus 431.

[Old Fuff]

Oh nuts!! I think I have K & N-frame hammers, but not L-frame or Taurus. :(

Try the following link, I believe they might have some S&W/L-frame hammers that are bobbed. As far as the Taurus is concerned they might have a hammer, but I doubt that it would be bobbed - but who knows?

Remember that hammers are usually common to the frame size, rather then a particular model.

www.e-gunparts.com

[MCgunner]

So, going back to my previous post (#34)...select the right tool for the job.

I'll use my snub as I see fit. If I wanna shoot sharks with it SA, I will, thank you very much. If I wanna shoot a rabbit with it, I will. Or, if I wanna put a hog in the trap down with it, I will. If I wanna shoot the head off a snake with it, I will. It's usually what I have on me when these jobs need doing as I don't carry a 4" .357 magnum daily or a shotgun or whatever. I can kill humans with it, but it's more like a useful daily tool to me that I can defend myself with. I have taken rabbits with a 2" snub. It can be done. So, a shotgun is "the proper tool"? I don't care, I didn't happen to have a shotgun on me at the time when the opportunity presented itself. I wasn't there to hunt rabbits, but I don't turn down protein when I see it. Fried rabbit is good. :D I suppose I could carry around a handgun case and "select the Ruger Mk2 iron" as if playing golf, but real life really doesn't work that way. Yeah, if I leave the house specifically to hunt rabbits, I take my 20 gauge.

Again, there's no place in my collection for a spurless hammer. I guess I'm not a serious gun fighter like you guys. Then again, that little Kel Tec is loaded with 11 rounds of +P 9x19 in my pocket and it's DAO concealed hammer. So, I guess I really do have a spurless revolver, square revolver that feeds from the bottom. I usually have my revolver on me if I'm going down to my place or going fishing, though. The right tool for the job.....ROFLMAO! :D

[sgt127]

I just bought a slightly used Porsche Carrera GT. Most worthless car I have ever owned. Just the other day, me and a buddy went out running some trails on a friends ranch shooting at jack rabbits. Can you believe the stupid thing kept bottoming out on every rut on the dirt trails? Tires didn't have traction for crap either, hell, just a little loose sand and the back end would come right out from under you when you nailed the gas. Finally, we went through a little creek he has on the property and the damned thing got STUCK! You would think with that kind of horsepower, it would never happen, but, yup it did. Tried pulling it out with a kids bicycle, but, it didn't work. That kid was pedelling like a madman, but, I suppose it wasn't the right tool for the job. Finally, some old guy with a tractor came by and threw a chain to us and got us out. No idea why the hell you would want a tractor, though, I don't think it will go over 40 MPH. Hell, that Porsche will go 175 MPH without breaking a sweat!

So my buddy, with the little DAO Ruger SP101 sees a nice white tail at about 100 yards, he missed. Couldn't believe it, I thought the DAO SP-101 was supposed to be the perfect revolver. Scared the deer off though, so I didn't get a chance to pop a round off at him with my 6" Model 27. That gun has an incredible SA trigger. I had just thumbed the hammer back when my goober buddy cranked off that Ruger...Thank goodness it still had the hammer spur and I was able to thumb the hammer back down without poking a hole in the floorboard of that stuck Porsche.

On the way back to town, some idiot ran up to the car and tried to carjack us! I grabbed a handful of my trusty Smith model 27 and tried to draw. The damned hammer spur got caught on the waistband of my underwear and gave me a wedgie that about killed me. Once it tore loose, the hammer spur got caught in the lining of my goose down jacket, finally ripped it free and there were feathers all over the damned car. Guess all that screaming scared off the carjacker because he ran off, even before my buddy was able to whip that little Ruger out of his pants pocket faser than you can see!

[Commander Crusty]

I have carried revolvers, with and without hammer spurs, for more than 25 years. I see lots of good reasons to have hammer spurs and few reasons not too.


Three Hammer Spur Myths

"The hammer spur will get stuck on clothing." This has NEVER happened to me in 25 years. I did have the lining of one jacket get torn up, but that was from the thumb strap, not the hammer. Oh, and yes I do sometimes carry a revolver in a pocket holster.

"Single action is unsafe." If single action guns or shooting is inherently unsafe, then we better pull all those 1911s out of people's holsters before they start going off by themselves! Or maybe NOT, since virtually every rifle and shotgun, and more than half of all automatic pistols made in the last 200 years are all designed to shoot single action for every shot.

"You will cock the gun accidentally during a gun fight." Well, I guess you might, if that's how you always shoot your revolver, but then, if that's how you shoot in practice, maybe that's how you SHOULD shoot in a life and death situation where every bullet you fire has a lawyer attached. On the other hand, if you do most of your shooting double action, THAT is what you will default to under stress. Don't believe me? Shoot some matches and see for yourself.


Four Reason FOR a Hammer Spur

1) The hammer spur allows you to safely do a rotation check of your ammunition. I've never had high primers on factory ammo, but I HAVE had it with borrowed hand loads. I rotation check my revolver before I put it in the holster.

2) The hammer makes it much easier to reload the revolver with one hand. You might be surprised how often a hand gets shot, cut or damaged in a fight. Anything that makes it easier for me to hang onto the darned pistol when the chips are down gets my vote.

3) You retain the option to cock the hammer. Most people are going to shoot BETTER double action even at long distances (try it yourself and see). On the other hand, combat is never what you want, it's always what it is. Maybe I'm behind cover and have a long shot and want single action. Maybe, I'm hurt and shooting weak handed and know from my range experience that I shoot weak-hand-only better single action. Maybe my attacker looks like he's about to grab my gun, and I want to discourage that by cocking the hammer (that way the gun will still fire, even if my attack has his hands around the cylinder). Maybe I just like keeping my options open.

4) You dry fire your guns a lot and just feel more connected to a revolver with a hammer spur. To me, the gun feels better with a hammer spur. I "know" how it works. I'm connected with the pieces that move. I control what it does. I had a beautiful custom GP100 with the hammer removed. While I carried it for 5 years, I finally traded it away because it just wasn't much fun to play with--the connection was missing!


Reasons Against Hammer Spurs

If you ever use your revolver in self-defense, a sleezy lawyer will almost certainly claim you negligently cocked your pistol and fired it accidently. If this bothers you, get a hammerless gun. Nothing wrong with them! Lots of people use carry them, keep them at home, carry them around and shoot them in competition. On the other hand, if you want a court defense (beyond not shooting people without a darned good reason), ask the police firearms expert if his shotguns and rifles fire single action. Remind him that the number one selling police autopistol is the Glock and ask him if he can fire a Glock single action (you can, just don't release the trigger all the way forward). Follow-up by asking if virtually every police agency and military power in the world issues guns that are inherently unsafe. The answer is no. Hammer spurs do not make double action revolvers unsafe.

All my revolvers have hammer spurs. I prefer them that way.

[Old Fuff]

On the way back to town, some idiot ran up to the car and tried to carjack us! I grabbed a handful of my trusty Smith model 27 and tried to draw. The damned hammer spur got caught on the waistband of my underwear and gave me a wedgie that about killed me. Once it tore loose, the hammer spur got caught in the lining of my goose down jacket, finally ripped it free and there were feathers all over the damned car. Guess all that screaming scared off the carjacker because he ran off,

Well you should cut off the hammer on one end, and the barrel on the other. Don't worry about the front sight 'cuz you won't need it. :rolleyes: :D

[tipoc]

Hammers can be modified as well to make them less snag prone and less likely to gash a thumb on the draw. I've done this on several of my wheelguns. I also break the sharp edges of the cylinder release latch which, as they come from the factory, can also gash a thumb. It still leaves tham capable of a sa shot if needed.

Shooting fast and accurate da is a very useful skill to develop. Takes time to develop that.

I've seen a few shooters who can do as well at 25 yards in fast da as I can sa at the same distance. But I haven't seen many.

There is a place for hammerless and shrouded guns. But a shooter should know their own abilities and keep those in mind. For many shooters the option of a single action shot is a useful option to have.

tipoc

[tipoc]

Modified hammer, shortened and narrowed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/tipoc/238snubs6.jpg

Modified and unmodified hammers here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/tipoc/N%20frames/44sham.jpg

Shrouded hammer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/tipoc/cobra5.jpg

Hacked up M66.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/tipoc/K%20Frames/m66-15.jpg

M640 wearing an impractical set of stocks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/tipoc/K%20Frames/6402.jpg

tipoc

[MCgunner]

Most people are going to shoot BETTER double action even at long distances (try it yourself and see).

Oh, so THAT'S why everyone who wins IHMSA is shooting DA guns, eh? :rolleyes:.....right, dude.

[earplug]

I shoot USPSA and Steel matches with a DA only S&W 625. I shoot fifty foot bullseye with a red dot sighted 625 and M-14 shooting SA only.
I have tried the timed and rapid fire course in DA. I'm not as accurate.
I have talked to other shooters who have tried to shoot the course in DA and they arn't as accurate.
I haven't heard of a pistol shooter who shoots a DA pistol in Bullseye.
If it was a better way of shooting they would be doing it.
If it works better for some, it might be a way to overcome a tendency to flinch when pressing the trigger.

[Rexster]

No, it is not a fad, unless fads last 90 years. Fitz advocated spurless hammers in the 1920's. Ruger has offered spurless hammers since at least the 1990's. I have three Ruger revolvers with factory spurless hammers; one bought that way, and two installed my me. One more of my SP101s started with a spur, and it was removed by Jack Weigand. I got an S&W K-frame spurless hammer through Ebay, before they became evilbay, and that hammer awaits an appropriate sixgun, for implantation, probably an M64 or M65 snubby, someday.

[Rexster]

I will not pretend that DA is more accurate at long range, in slow fire, with a sixgun that has high-profile sights, fired SA. Apples and oranges. Really accurate, bullseye-level SA shooting, is a skill. Shooting fast and accurate in DA is also a skill. I don't see any reason for those who are good at one to run down those good at the other. A really accomplished sixgunner will try to develop skill at both tasks. Both are paths to the same goal, that being accuracy.

[icecorps]

I was watching a video of Jerry M. and his S&W 625. When I saw he had no hammer spur, I wondered why. Then I saw how far up the backstrap he gets a grip.

Does anyone know if competitive revolver shooters remove the spur to that it doesn't hit the web of their hand?

[Rexster]

As Old Fuff said, bobbing hammers and barrels is nothing new. Google "Fitz Special" for starters. Read Fitz's book. Read Ed Lovette's book. The Brits made a bunch of Enfield military revolvers that were DAO, no spur.

SA shooting is not ancient history. I see folks doing it all the time, with guns that are SA-only, and by cocking guns that are capable of both modes of fire.

I have S&W J-frames with concealed hammers, and Ruger SP101s with and without hammer spurs. One SP101 that has no hammer spur can still be cocked and fired SA, and three SP101s still have their hammer spurs, while one is DAO. I also have a 4" Speed Six with a factory spurless hammer, that can be cocked and fired SA.

I "enjoy" both DA and SA shooting. I guess you can think of my DAOs as purely "business" guns, lacking the versatility of both DA and SA modes of fire. That is OK with me; I have plenty of revolving pistols capable of the full range of enjoyment.