7mm-'06?


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ArmedBear
March 8, 2009, 09:39 PM
Just a history/curiosity question.

Was this ever tried, either by an ammo maker or a wildcatter?

Or did the .270 come along early enough to head it off at the pass?

And why has the .270 bullet remained by itself, in '06 brass, without a .308-based analogue?

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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 8, 2009, 09:41 PM
7mm Remington Express, aka .280 Remington.

The .270-.308 is a good question; there have been wildcats, but nothing caught on.

ArmedBear
March 8, 2009, 09:44 PM
Oh, duh.

Forgot about the .280. Seems like those who have tried it, really like it, too.

usmc1371
March 8, 2009, 10:42 PM
7mm-08 seems pretty popular so may be why no 270-08.

MMCSRET
March 8, 2009, 11:22 PM
I like all of them but, the thought that keeps recurring in me is a 25-08. It would be a better performer than the 250-3000 Savage but still work in short actions. There have been a few variations but evidently none caught on. Maybe I need a full time job; oh damn; I remember now, I retired so I wouldn't have a full time job!!!!!

AKElroy
March 8, 2009, 11:32 PM
The 30.06 case has given rise to the following now commercially loaded "wildcats":

1. 25.06
2. 270. Win
3. 280 Rem
4. 35 Whelen

Did I miss any?

Zak Smith
March 8, 2009, 11:39 PM
There is a named wildcat of the .25-08, although I can't remember its name right now. Given the cult following of the .257 Roberts +P, the .25-08 ought to attract the same [enlightened] crowd.

The .280 (and .280 Ackley) and 6.5-06 are some great but often overlooked cartridges.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 9, 2009, 12:03 AM
Here are some names of wildcat cartridges with .277 / .308 win cases:

1. .270/.308 Winchester (Huber)
2. .270/.308 Winchester Improved (Ackley/Sorensen)

Some 7mm-'06 Rounds (besides .280/7mm rem express):

1. .280 Remington Improved (Ackley)
2. .285 OKH, aka 7mm/06 OKH (O'Neil, Keith & Hopkins)


That's all I can find.

Zak, ".25-08"?

Jim Watson
March 9, 2009, 12:06 AM
Bear in mind that the .280 Rem is not an '06 necked straight down to 7mm. It has about .050" longer cartridge headspace to keep it from being crammed in a .270. Forming .280 from .30-06 would take some extra work to generate the new shoulder location.

There was a .270x.300 Savage, the .270 Titus; but anybody doing it on a .308 case is pretty obscure.

Zak Smith
March 9, 2009, 12:09 AM
Dr.THW,

I was responding to MMCSRET

jim in Anchorage
March 9, 2009, 12:29 AM
The 270 Win. was never a wildcat. It was a original Winchester introduction. As far as a 270-308,why with the 7mm-308 available? we are talking a whopping .007 difference bullet diameter here.

Jim Watson
March 9, 2009, 01:14 AM
I wonder where they ever got the idea for the .270 in the first place. I have read that they got the idea from the European 7x64 but fudged the bullet diameter for some reason. The only other .270 I know of was the obscure 6.8mm Mauser that old China looked at but settled on standard 8x57.

rangerruck
March 9, 2009, 01:56 AM
just go with a 260 remmy, and that will be very close to your 25.08, 257+, or any round close to that, even the 6.5 . 06. Or just stay with the tried and true 280, very good round.

Runningman
March 9, 2009, 02:08 AM
The 30.06 case has given rise to the following now commercially loaded "wildcats":

1. 25.06
2. 270. Win
3. 280 Rem
4. 35 Whelen
Seems like I read somewhere the 270Win is based on the longer, necked down 30-03 case.

To add to that list the 338 A Square was standardized by the SAAMI. WBY was selling rifles in it at one time.

jester_s1
March 9, 2009, 02:24 AM
Anything you can imagine doing to a .30-06 case has been done. Most of them have been done several times. Neck it up or down, cut it, blow it out, change the shoulder, whatever. Quite a few commercial cartridges have come out of experimentation with the .30-06, and many more useful wildcats have also been made.

To the OP- the .270 came out first and got the market. The .280 is a nearly ballistic equal intended to keep Remington from having to stamp ".270 Win" on their guns. It didn't catch on because there was no reason to switch from the tried and true.

jim in Anchorage
March 9, 2009, 02:32 AM
I never have read how Win decided on a .277 bullet. Maybe so it wouldn't be metric. This was 1923,after all.

MMCSRET
March 9, 2009, 07:51 AM
I saw a Savage 99 chambered in 270 Savage (300 Savage necked down to 270) about 40 years ago in Western Montana where I grew up. It belonged to a rancher/packer who spent a lot of time in the saddle. He liked the 99 for a saddle gun better than the Winchesters and Marlins of the day and was very fond of .277.

woof
March 9, 2009, 09:02 AM
Actually .277 "is" 7mm (.2.75+) while .257 is really 6.5 but we call them .25s. Yet we have become used to thinking 6.5 is .264 and 7mm is .284. So when Winchester came out with the .270 they were thinking 7mm. Why didn't they make it the same bullet size as 7x57? Dunno.

We don't need another entry in the .308 family since we already have 6mm, 6.5, 7, 7.62, 8.5 and 9.

JWF III
March 9, 2009, 09:43 AM
Quote:
The 30.06 case has given rise to the following now commercially loaded "wildcats":

1. 25.06
2. 270. Win
3. 280 Rem
4. 35 Whelen


I'm pretty sure that A-Square is now loading the 6.5-06, though it may not have been standardized by SAAMI. That I don't know about.

Wyman

woof
March 9, 2009, 09:56 AM
Isn't the .220 Swift on a .30-06 case?

Jim Watson
March 9, 2009, 10:04 AM
No.
.220 Swift is a distant descendant of the old 6mm Lee Navy.

You have to watch the nomenclature. Some calibers go by bore diameter, some by groove, some by bullet. So sure, .277" is close to 7mm as a bullet or groove diameter. But a 7mm rifle has a 7mm bore diameter.

jim in Anchorage
March 9, 2009, 10:06 AM
The 220 swift is based on the 6mm Lee Navy. It is a unique "semi rimed case"

NCsmitty
March 9, 2009, 11:44 AM
AKElroy, yes, you missed the 338-06 A-square that's loaded by Weatherby, Nosler and of course A-Square.
You can also buy 8mm-06 brass, not sure if they make loaded ammo.

The 25-08 wildcat is the 25 Souper.

NCsmitty

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 9, 2009, 12:34 PM
Oh, also, of the 2 most popular ".25-08" (based on .308 win) wildcats, both had off-the-wall names:

1. .257 Durham Jet
2. .25 Souper (not "super")

Edit: NCsmitty beat me to part of it!

Gewehr98
March 9, 2009, 02:38 PM
One is known as the .280 Remington, seen on gun shop shelves here in the U.S.

The other is known as the 7x64 Brenneke, but is mostly an overseas proposition.

The latter is loaded to a higher chamber pressure than the former.

If you get some 7x64 Brenneke brass, and compare it to .280 Remington, you'll see the difference. One obvious departure is the smaller flash hole diameter of the 7x64.

I bought 1000 pieces of once-fired RWS 7x64 Brenneke brass from Huntington's in the late 1990s, to resize to 6.5-06 after doodling around with .280 Remington, .270 Winchester, and .25-06 Remington brass. I've been quite pleased with the results.

oklahoma caveman
March 9, 2009, 04:03 PM
And why has the .270 bullet remained by itself, in '06 brass, without a .308-based analogue?



unless i am mistaken, it has been done and is the 7mm-08. a 270 bullet placed in a necked down 308 casing

Gewehr98
March 9, 2009, 04:07 PM
The 7mm-08 is a .284" diameter bullet, aka 7 millimeters.

The .270 caliber most known for the .270 Winchester and 6.8 SPC is a .277" diameter bullet.

Totally different creatures.

SimpleIsGood229
March 9, 2009, 05:12 PM
Seems like I read somewhere the 270Win is based on the longer, necked down 30-03 case.
The .30-03 has a slightly longer neck. That is the only difference between it and the .30-06.

ArmedBear
March 9, 2009, 05:31 PM
Maybe that explains why not 7mm.

Maybe Winchester had a bunch of surplus .30-03 cases, and if you necked them down, you could put in a .277" bullet without trimming the cases.:D

I wouldn't put it past 'em.

Otherwise, it's hard to imagine why they wouldn't have used the already existing .284" (7mm) bullet for experimenting.

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