[Black92LX]

I am looking for a bolt gun in .223 (or comperably priced round) for under $500.

The savage has been suggested, but i am not a big fan of how the stock feels in the wood or plastic. so i was just looking for anyother suggestions.

I'll give some background so maybe other suggestions might arise.

My goal/dream:p in life is to be a SWAT/Tactical Unit Sniper. So i figure i better start working on that skill now. so i need a gun. I want to start out at 100 yds with iron sights. Then maybe to 200yds still scopeless (not sure how well i will do at this). Then from 200 on out bring optics into play. So right now i am in the market for a gun with just iron sights, then add an above average scope maybe 6 months down the line. All suggestions are appreciated.

Jeremy

[Steve Smith]

I'm not sure if SWAT snipers have any more skill than your typical weekend bench shooter. I doubt if any of them are ever authorized to take a shot over 200 yards, and with a bipod and a scope that is like shooting fish in a barrel. SWAT snipers get to be snipers because they put a lot of time into the regular force and probably on the entry team, as a sniper isn't always needed and is a special application. I have a feeling that police snipers happen to be the guys who shot before they became cops so knowing how to pull a trigger is already there.

I think you'd be best served by shopping for a used bolt rifle, either Winchester or Remington, and find a decent scope for it.

[ocabj]

I'm not sure how the market is on used Remingtons, so I don't know if you can score one for less than $500. Just keep in mind that you will probably spend $300 or more on a decent piece of glass.

I don't know about using iron sights for precision shooting with a bolt action. The iron sights that come with the Remington 700 series are designed for taking out big game, and not for placing 5-shots into a sub-MOA group @100 yds, much less 200yds. If you plan on precision shooting, you will need to go with glass at the start. A lot of people I know actually buy a scope before buying the rifle.

As far as training to be a SWAT sniper, you're probably best getting a .308 rather than a .223 rifle. The .308 is the defacto standard caliber for sniper weapons.

And as Steve mentioned in his post, if you plan on becoming a member of a SWAT team, expect to spend a lot of time as a regular patrol officer. Most if not all SWAT officers already have several years of experience prior to changing to SWAT.

[saddlebum]

HOWA!!

[Black92LX]

if you plan on becoming a member of a SWAT team, expect to spend a lot of time as a regular patrol officer. Most if not all SWAT officers already have several years of experience prior to changing to SWAT.

yup that's the plan. that's why i said my dream, not sure it will ever happen but hey it's worth a shot.

[Selfdfenz]

Some kind of CZ. And consider about the same $ for a good scope.
What you are looking for might even have a detachable mag.

S-

[FireInTheHole]

I too am looking around for a decent bolt gun. Currently have my eyes on a rem 700 blued w/ synthetic stock. Ive seen them at cabelas for $420 :)

My caliber of choice? .308 Winchester

Who wants a mouse gun like a .223!:D

[Phantom Warrior]

But a Remington 700 is an awfully good deal. I got my Remington 700 ADL in .308 (ditto what ocabj said, by the way...) for under $450. The actual number escapes me at the moment. I do know that the rifle, a 3x-9x Swift scope (a decent basic scope, good quality IMO), plus odds and ends such as rings and mounting came to $2 under $600. If you just want to shoot open sights, you can probably stay under $500 easy. Especially if you can find a used gun in good condition. If you are serious about being a sniper, some time with a scope is probably a must and good glass is going to add up, as mentioned.
Bottom line, it would be worth your time to look at the Remington 700. My $2*10^-2...

[ocabj]

Which Remington 700s have the heavy barrel? I know the 700P (Police model) does. What about the standard civilian models?

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Tikka blued T3 Lite---local dealer has them at $399----blows any old sorry Remington or Savage away.

Comes with scope rings--------get yourself a Leupold VX-1 for $199 and you're good to go---for $600 complete.

Just mount the scope and go shooting---none of that messing with bedding the action---new triggers or any other nonsense Remington and Savage owners go through in an attempt to get their rifles to shoot better.

The Tikka is a tack driver right out of the box.

Damn---starting to sound like a commercial-----lol :)

[ocabj]

Just mount the scope and go shooting---none of that messing with bedding the action---new triggers or any other nonsense Remington and Savage owners go through in an attempt to get their rifles to shoot better.

I wouldn't go that far as to insult the Savage. The Savage is a great shooter out of the box as well, especially with the Accutrigger.

[Black92LX]

anyone happen to have the tikka website??

[Brian Williams]

Get your self a 22lr NOW and practice @ 75yds for the next 2 months and after hunting season, hang around Gun shops for "this dang gun is so unaccurate, it made me miss a 42 point buck" Dealer says I'll give $200 for it, you chime in I'll give $225 cash.

Best time to buy a good rifle is either after hunting season and when it is to cold to shoot. Some people just blame it all on the gun or they have "Iwannanewcoolgun" virus.



Look at Savage combos and Tikkas

[Ringer]

Which Remington 700s have the heavy barrel? I know the 700P (Police model) does. What about the standard civilian models?
I believe that would be the Sendero and all the Varmint models.

[Black92LX]

anyone else having problems with the Tikka website???

www.tikka.fi it doesn't work in english, but it does in finnish but i can't read finnish so:confused:

[rugerfreak]

the Tikka's are at Beretta USA website

[Black92LX]

why thank you. now the remington site isn't working. grrr.

[Smokey Joe]

Several things come to mind:

1. You ain't gonna get it done for < $500. The basic rifle, maybe, but you'll spend nearly as much for the optical sights. (Forget the iron sights.) And scope base and rings. And gunsmith accurizing and trigger job.

2. Then you'll have to get into reloading so you can afford to practice enough. Another $300-400 shot on equipment to do that well.

3. Check out the Savage Model 12BVSS in .308. Or, as Ringer said, the Rem. Sendero in ditto. (Neither of which you can touch for $500, BTW.) But you need that target-rifle accuracy.

4. ForgotÑyou'll need a bipod, sling, and spotting 'scope, plus the fancy hard case and all the rest of the doo-dads so's you look the part and can do the job. More $$$!

5. And A LOT OF range time. Check thatÑTONS of range time.

6. The average length of the shot a police sniper takes at a BG is 72 yds, I read somewhere. The comparison was to a military sniper, who shoots at targets multiple hundreds of yds. away, but for him, a killing hit anywhere on the body is OK. A police sniper has to go for the base-of-the-brain instant kill on a very tiny target, but at much shorter range. But you're right, you'll have to be able to perform on the 200 yd. and 300 yd. ranges to get the job.

7. All of that said, I hope you make it. Keep the dream, keep working on it. The world can use more persons with their eye firmly fixed upon a goal.

[Black Snowman]

Want to be a better rifleman on a budget? Here's my suggestion (I'm no expert, but this is what I'd do).

Read, study, and practice the techniques and mindest for good shooting.
Save your money until you find a used Rem 700 at a good price. Also if you get a used gun when you go to upgrade later you won't lose nearly as much money if you decide to trade it in.

Caliber isn't as important but the .223 will give you less expensive ammo without having to reload but don' t use surplus, stick with accurate ammo or you won't be able to gauge your progress. Save the brass for when you do begin to reload.

Ideally get a used gun with a good scope. This is by far the cheapest way to get good glass. If there's no scope and you're short of money get something with good optics over durability since you'll want to replace it later anyway (ie BSA). WHEN it breaks you can get it repaired fairly inexpensively but you lose time and will have to sight in all over again, or if you have the money, replace it with something good.

As soon as you can afford to get into reloading, do. This is a must for the best accuracy from any gun. Start out with a Lee Anniversary Reloading Kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/149097) and a set of deluxe dies for about $100. Best bang for the buck. It's not great but it will produce accurate ammo, just not as conviently as some of the nicer brands. (Hint: for smooth operation lubricate the ram with a small amount of gear oil on a paper towel. Works wonders on any press.)

As your skill, knowlege and budget increase you can add even more goodies (like a decent scale and a powder thrower). You can always use an extra press even if you upgrade later so none of this money will be wasted.

If you want to get good fast it wouldn't be a bad idea to save up for a training course. It's amazing how fast you can improve with someone else spotting things you could be doing better that you would never notice on your own.

Hope that helps :) YMMV and other disclaimers, etc . . .

[Black92LX]

thanks for all of the input. i know it takes a lot of equipment, time and money. so i am going slowly.right now i am just worried about the gun. will shoot it for a few months and get very comforatable with it till i can afforrd the glass. then on to other steps of reloading and so on.

[Quack]

the Savages are pretty good, i have 2 of them now :) if you want a good in-expensive scope to start with, you could use the Bushnell 3200 10x40 Mil-Dot. Natchezs (http://www.natchezss.com/index.html) has them for $150 and this way you can learn how to use mil-dots.

here's a pick of my 2nd one that i just picked up as a barreled action that has been trued and a Shilen barrel added to it :D
Cost:
Barreled action - $250
Choate Stock - $135 (borrowed from my .308)
Sightron scope - $350 (borrowed from my .308)

http://www.hunt101.com/img/062741.jpg

[Black92LX]

now that's beautiful, but unfortunatly i am still learning so i have no idea what that suff means.

[Quack]

the Barreled action is the main part of the rifle (bolt, barrel, reciever, trigger)
Choate stock is just the name of the manufacturer of the stock
Sightron is the Mfg of the scope.
Mil-Dots (http://www.riflescopes.com/mildot/index.html) is a type of scope reticle which most Tactical shooters use

BTW, i think the shop near me has a 26" savage .223 for $350 - $375 range. it's the used and has the old style trigger, but can get you going soon.

More Mil-dot info (http://www.riflescopes.com/mildot/screview.html)

[Black92LX]

so i could have that gun there minus scope and bipod for $385??? or am i missing something.

[Quack]

yes, if you find the right deal.
i got the barreled action in the picture off of the AR-15 forum. it was on there for about 2-3 weeks before i bought it.

you can also find a new rifle with the old trigger for that price.

[Steve Smith]

You could also find the same rifle at a gun show for about $225 with a low round count.

[Quack]

yep, between the internet and gunshows, you should be able to get into a nice rifle for less $ than buying new.

[Black92LX]

the gun shows around here must really suck. i never see anything remotley like i am looking for. just SKS's, AR's, and handguns to boot. i will just keep at it.

[Steve Smith]

Wait till after hunting season. For goodness sakes, you're in Ohio, there are lots of deer there. After hunting season, hit the gun shows, and if you see a guy walking around with a rifle, look at it. If it looks good, offer him 2/3 of his asking price. Be kinda stern with your price. Move less than he does. Wa-la, your rifle.

[Black92LX]

since you can't hunt with a rifle in ohio, do you really think there will be a large influx in rifles after the season???

ohh i am waiting it will probably be december before i can actually purchase, but i am just need ideas as what's best to look for.

[Quack]

i usually see rifles around then up in the Cleveland area shows.
also right before X-mas is a good time to look.

[Steve Smith]

Oh...in that case, just ignore everything I just said.


My apologies.

[Quack]

how about this?
12BVSS (http://www.varminthunters.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=9041&query=retrieval)

oops, saw the round count...

[Black92LX]

i have been browsing my catalogs and looking at all the things suggested. i think i might try to build up a Tikka T3. then add the Bushnell 10X40 mil dot. but i am still looking so maybe a fantastic deal will come along.

[Quack]

if you are set on the Bushnell mil-dot, i'd get it right away, because the price is right. thinking of getting 1 or 2 for the next rifles. also you can use the scope to practice ranging before you actually get the rifle.


good luck!

[Quack]

one last thing...here's what i've been trying to find all day.

Shooter Ready (http://www.shooterready.com/) has a demo shooting range and info on mil-dot usage.