[doctorhumbert]

I have about $2200 spare cash to spend, and I've thinking about buying NIB HK91.
Question is should I should I not?
Will AWB sunset effect its preban price?
I've also considered M1A, and DSA FAL, but I think HK wins hands down in its reliability and cool factor.
Any other suggestions to spend $2200 on .308 rifle?

[Steve Smith]

Shop around. I was bargaining for one in excellent condition for $1700. Things fell though, but $1800 would have had it.

[Hk Paul]

Its worth it, trust me.
You can allways make more if you want to sell it.
And the AW Ban does not effect the gun. The gun was banned by exec. order in 89, and that bill has no expiriartion date. Buy the HK91, you wont be sorry.
When you are ready to buy, come talk to me if you need advice on anything. If you are looking for a collector, make sure you get a matching test target and warranty card.

[Jack19]

No question, the 91 is cool. I had one for awhile but prefer the FAL.

The AWB sunset won't affect a true 91s' price, they're still covered by the import ban put in place by George I.

If I had $2200 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be mulling over something from Accurracy International. I haven't priced them lately but I keep seeing their ads and got an email from them this morning. Like someone's trying to tell me something. lol Just my 220,000 cents. :D :D :D

[Nando Aqui]

SA-M1A, DSA-SA58, H&K-HK91: All great, like them very well, and take turns taking them to the range. Ask me to select just one, and it will be the HK91.

The SA58 and M1A are "slightly" more accurate, with emphasis on 'slightly'. Whether using the HK with the iron sights or the ARMS claw mounted scope, it does extremely well with surplus ammo and it is most reliable.

I don't think you'll be sorry with the HK91.

Alex

[Kestrel]

HKPaul,

Is there any particular import markings that are more desireable on a 91, than others? Are there any variations in the rifles, other than stock configuration?

Thanks,
Steve

[TechBrute]

Seriously, the HK is coooooooool:cool: , but for $2200, I'd probably buy a DSA FAL and an M1A... both.

But... NIB HK91s don't come around very often.

[Hkmp5sd]

Speaking of the import restrictions, any updates on HK's US plant?

[Hk Paul]

Is there any particular import markings that are more desireable on a 91, than others?
SteveW13:

There really isnt many. There is one or two importer markings that would make the rifle more disireable. The two importers are SACO (Security Arms Company) because IIRC, they were the first to import the HK91. The other importer would be HK of Chantilly Virgina, but only because it represents the "Golden Era" of HK. However one does not cost more than the other really, unless its a SACO.

Note that the diffrent imports do not reflect a change in quality of the gun. The gun is the same thing.

There are however, there are diffrent types of bluing. One a normal bluing, and another more of a grey bluing. It should be noted that neither are more disireable than the other as a whole. Someone may want a grey one over a blue one.

Now if you really want a collector...

Are there any variations in the rifles, other than stock configuration?
Other than that, to the best of my knowledge, no. Unless a private indivdual did so.

However there is the HK41, which is the precurser to the HK91. The HK41 is far more rare and expensive than the HK91.
Some of the HK41s came with push pin lowers, which made them very easy to convert to Full Auto. The fun police didnt like that. Hence the new "Shelf" packs.
If you would like more info, go to http://www.hkpro.com

Now, some may question on getting an NIB HK91 over somthing else.
In my opinion, if you want it, get it. I own a NIB 91.
I dont shoot it.
I dont want to.

I got it because I love HKs and owning a 91 is, to me, owning a little pice of HK history. Its the civie version of the gun that put HK on the map.
They are finley made works of art. Even though they go up in value often, and are getting harder to find, Id never sell my baby.

In my opinion, get it. You wont regret it if you appricate fine craftsmanship, and history.

Also, dont forget, you can allways buy other guns too.

[SodaPop]

Nice gun but not worth the money.

Unless you're one of those guys that wants to brag about it.:cuss:

[uglygun]

For 2200 I'd be carefully considering whether I wanted to finally take the leap into the realm of the 50BMG rifles, another 300 or so and an AR50 can be had....


I got my 308Win semi, I really like my AR10 A4. Gonna have it built into an accurized 260Rem with the addition of a 2nd upper.

But an actual HK91 would be hard to say no to simply because their numbers are capped with or without the 94 AW ban. Probably the best of all "battle rifle" 7.62Nato/308Win rifles with reference to durability and reliability. Not too keen though on aftermarket support, not a wealth of accesories or aftermarket kits much less people who can do professional work on them.

Sorta the reason I went AR10, it's like the chevy of the gun world in terms of parts availability for the AR family.

[guy sajer]

You will enjoy it . Luckily , I bought mine when they were much less expensive .
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=520264

[JShirley]

doc,

I think the '91 has the ergonomics of a brick. I think there would be a great deal of debate as to whether a DSA is less reliable, but there is no question that some folk think highly of the HK.

John

[uglygun]

LOL, yeah that's the other reason I went for the AR10. Ergonomics much better.

I think HK advertisements should go as such, "Designed for wookies, by wookies". One needs chewbacca hands to work some of the controls.

[JShirley]

Speaking of DSA reliability (from FAL Files):
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=588022

[JShirley]

A few minutes later (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=588030)...

[Tamara]

I don't believe I've ever heard a piece of stamped sheet metal referred to before as a "finley made works of art" that is for people who "appricate fine craftsmanship". :uhoh:

Mine's an "IC" date code. I keep the collapsable stock on it to make it handier to transport to and from the range. I shoot the bejabbers out of it about once a month and keep it "cruiser ready" as my house rifle. The prices on them are obscene for a stamped sheet-metal clone of a military rifle, but that's what goofy government price-fixing plans will do to you. While the charging handle may be more awkward to employ than that on any other common military rifle, and the lack of a bolt hold-open feature is supremely annoying, I find that for me it handles and points better than the big competitors in the .308 rifle arena, and the plethora of (admittedly high-priced) accessories and super-cheap full-capacity mags cinched the deal.

Do you want one? Then it's worth it.
Does it fit a niche for you better than anything else? Then it's worth it.
From a purely objective standpoint? An HK-91 is a swell $850 rifle.

[Wildalaska]

We just had one rebuilt at HK..it had been shot "too much"...

$700!!!!!!!!!

WildnothanksAlaska

[Feanaro]

From a practical stand-point, it's not worth that much money. It's a great battle rifle(this posters favorite) but unless you just want to own a REAL HK, like spending large wads of money or just want the value of a real HK91 then a G3 rebuild might be a better value. Buy a reciever from Century Arms and send it to these guys, www.investmentgradefirearms.com .

Of course, if you are hell bent on a real HK 91, have at it. It's your dough.

[Jack19]

I'll second Feanaro's recommendation of Jayson at IGF as a builder, I have one of his FALs and it is absolutely beautiful work. Better, I think than factory Belgians.

Jayson has this rifle for sale on his website:
http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/images/For%20Sale/G3side.jpg

$1150.

[Steve Smith]

OK, it looks like they use Special Weapons receivers for several guns. I recall a "Todd" fellow and a Special Weapons company that no one would buy from. Is this the same company? Is IGF the next version of Special Weapons? Are the two owned by the same guy? How is the quality of work from IGF? I'd appreciate all the comments you can supply regarding this.

[Hkmp5sd]

An S-E-F for $1150? :) I'll take a dozen!

[Jack19]

I don't think there is any relationship between IGF and "Todd" at SW.

Like I said above, I have one of IGF's FALs and it is fantastic. The quality of work is nothing like what the reputation of SW was. Jayson is a stand up guy and doesn't deserve to be compared to the old SW company.

You can buy a FMP/US receiver through FAC. Now, who's doing the finish work, in the US, on those imported, but not finished, FMP "receivers," I dunno. I've heard good things but have not seen one personally. Call Harlan at FAC and ask.

[Chipperman]

Why do you want NIB? Are you going to fire it? If not, reliability is meaningless.
I love mine, but saw no reason to spend another $400 for NIB. I shoot mine.

Put the extra $400 toward lots of mags, A3 stock, different forearms, spare parts, etc.

BTW, original HK alloy mags can be had for $1.99 each now. :what: At that price, they're practically disposable. I just bought another 20 last week.
What other .308 battle rifle has 20 round mags for 2 bucks?

[plnkr1234]

Hi Guys,

Not to hijack the thread, but were can I find a NIB for $2200 or even an excellent condition HK91 for $1800. In MA, I've only seen good to excellent for around $2500.

Thanks.

[Daedalus]

I know I am comparing ramen noodles to caviar here, but what is the difference between the CETME and HK91?

[Chipperman]

gunbroker
auctionarms
gunsamerica

It's ok to bring an HK91 into MA (provided you have a Class A license), you just have to pay an FFL to transfer it for you.

[Chipperman]

"what is the difference between the CETME and HK91?"

About $1500.

It's analogous to the difference between a Colt AR and an Olympic AR.

[another48hrs]

A Greek SAR and a Portugese G3S are both great rifles for the money and are built on HK tooling. I bought an SAR3 and am over joyed by it. A soft shooter and more accurate than I am, but there is something about getting a real HK from Germany.

I don't think there will be a quality G3 clone that is exactly like a HK91 in America after the AWB, unless someone buys the tooling to make a receiver that is HK specs. But I have to agree with everyone else about going to Investment Grade Firearms to get a G3 built. If you want to go this route you better find a FMP receiver quick before there are no more left. These receivers are made in Portugal and are HK spec.

[guy sajer]

The Century Arms CETME and G3 rifles are built on new receivers utilizing a hodge podge of used military parts .

[iamkris]

Actually Chipperman, that's not quite right.

CETME is the predecessor of the HK G3 which became the HK91 in civilian skin. Most CETME parts are not interchangeable with G3/HK91 parts. Main differences are sights, selector switch, mags, stocks (although for a while G3s had wood stocks) and a multitude of internal dimensions.

In general, G3-clone parts are newer and in better condition than CETME parts. Individual rifles may vary of course.

Also, the fit and finish of a Century-built rifle are abysmal compared to work by HK or one of the good builders...especially in the areas of welding/finishing and "alignment".

$1500 difference?... Err, prolly not. But that's what we in the marketing world call Brand Value. (just like a Sony with comparable features/performance than say a Samsung electonic product will almost always command a higher price.)

[Chipperman]

iamkris:
You're right. I was thinking G3 when I made the comparison, not CETME. That's what happens when you make posts late at night. :o

The $1500 price differential holds for the G3 to HK91 comparison.

[iamkris]

No prob...heck, I make those kinda mistakes in the middle of the day!

[Tamara]

Bear in mind that the HK-91 is not a $2,000+ rifle. It is an $800 rifle that sells for $2,000 due to a fixed supply caused by a goofy executive order signed in 1989. Prior to importation being stopped in 1989, an HK-91 actually cost less than a Colt AR-15.

[tex_n_cal]

hmmm...I knew I should have bought that one in Dallas in 1987 that was $450. I woulda had to sell it before moving to CA, but I would have made a nice profit:D

[TechBrute]

I would have watched over it for you...

[Mute]

I lean towards FALs myself, but a genuine HK will probably turn out to, at the very least, be a good investment, financiall.

[guy sajer]

I think if you can buy it cheap enough it would be a positive investment . I think $1800 would be tops .

But , over the last 5 years or so , the prices on these and other "pre-1989" guns have stabilized big time .
The only prices that continue to climb are on the class 3 machineguns .

[Tamara]

The only prices that continue to climb are on the class 3 machineguns .

Actually, HK prices are still way high due to the relative availability and modularity of Fleming autosears. :uhoh:

[guy sajer]

I agree Tamara , they are high .
My observation is that they haven't continued to climb like Class 3 has . HK91's have been $1800 - $2000 for 4 or 5 years . If anything , they have come down some . I can recall that $2500-$3000 for a 91 wasn't unheard of after the 94 Crime Bill took effect .
My point was that I don't consider them a very good investment if you want a reasonable return on your money . IMO . :)

[clint1911a1]

Once upon a time I owned all three of the big three and carried them extensively.
Springfield Armory M1-A
DSA SA-58
HK-91:barf:
I still own two of them:
Sprinfield Armory M1-A ;)
DSA SA-58 :cool:

Sold the HK-91 for less than what I gave for it :banghead: just to get rid of the :cuss: thing.

[guy sajer]

It was :banghead: because ?

[clint1911a1]

Don't get me wrong, there wasn't anything wrong with the rifle as far as function, reliability, accuracy, etc. It was just that the things have horrible ergonomics, hate the controls, and didn't seem to balance well to me. Didn't care much for the method of sight adjustment either.
I guess I would have to say it's all personal preference issues with me.

[guy sajer]

Based on your previous "extreme" post :banghead: :cuss: , I thought you had severe problems with it .

[clint1911a1]

Pretty:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: dramatic aren't I.

[Tamara]

Heh. I was chatting with Marko yesterday and commented that I thought my '91 was one of the best .308 battle rifles I've played with, but only for 20 rounds at a lick. After twenty rounds it suddenly became the worst. ;)

[keederdag]

NO.:barf:

[doctorhumbert]

Thanks guys, I bought HK93!

[guy sajer]

I had one several years back . It was extremely accurate . 3/4" groups at 100yds weren't uncommon even with the HK "mushy" trigger .

Make sure you stick with 55 gr ammo or lighter due to the 1:12 twist .

[doctorhumbert]

:D :p :cool: :evil:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/p13b26caec3821de3f8bc1b3f78fcec9d/faca39f1.jpg

I paid $2000 with A2 stock, and boght A3 stock soon after.
I also have plastic FBI F/S ambi trigger assembly on the way.

I only had a chance to shoot it at an indoor range, and managed to produce single jagged holes at 25 yards, usually around 1/2" to 1/3"

Recoil was mild, and the rifle was 100% reliable through 280rds of 55gr Winchester value pak 223.

Yeah, I found usual complaints against this rifle to be true.

-You need a CHEWBAKA hand to operate the controls.
-There is no last round hold device, and you get a surprise hammer drop on an empty chamer.
-It's heavy, especially toward front.
-You need two hands to remove the magazine.

But, compared to post ban bush AR15 I had, I found HK93 to be superior in regard to:

-More reliable mechanism and magazine.
-I liked HK sights better than AR sights.
-The preban flash suppressor is an welcomed feature, compared to post ban barrel or a blinding/deafening muzzle brakes.
-Far more rugged than AR. Though blocky, the bolt looks virtually indestructable.
-It sounds solid, where as AR gives that annoying springy sound in the stock.


Frankly I do not trust AR15 in the reliability department. Though HK93 is heavier, and less ergonomic, I think it is far more worry free than AR.
I think it's a keeper!
:D :D

[Feanaro]

Glad you're happy with it. I'd gag just thinking of all the things I could have done with that cash but, then again, I pick up pennys and quarters I find on the street. ;)

[ebicker]

Hello Chipperman,...Where can I find HK91 mags for 1.99 ????
Do you have a URL that you can post?
Thanks.....

[Lanyard]

ebicker,
Great use of the Search function. That thread is 4 years old. If you scroll down on the following page you can get 10 mags for $19 or 100 mags for $150. This is the best deal I know of, others may help out too, good luck and welcome to the board.

http://www.robertrtg.com/g3.html

[Chipperman]

Good God, man!
Holy thread resurrection!!

Robert (from the above link) is good to deal with.