HK or XD


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MROD
March 9, 2009, 09:28 PM
I have shot the HK USP .45 before and was amazed with how it handled, ... I have read a number of really good reviews about the Springfield Armory XD .45 ...

So which of these 2 guns is the better handgun?

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Yositomo Wiskisito
March 9, 2009, 09:37 PM
IMHO, go with the HK45 instead of the USP 45. You give two rounds but get the "next gen" model with better ergonomics and trigger.

MaterDei
March 9, 2009, 09:41 PM
MROD,

Define 'better'.

If you fired the USP and were "amazed with how it handled" why would you want to consider another gun?

You'll read good reviews about a lot of guns, if you actually fired one yourself and found it amazing then your search should be over.

Welcome to THR.

hso
March 9, 2009, 09:41 PM
If you're a new shooter it literally depends upon which one fits you the best and points most naturally for you. The one you shoot "better" is the one that is "better" for you.

If you're an experienced shooter, it doesn't much matter.

chupacabrah
March 9, 2009, 09:53 PM
i say XD...less money for a good gun. just depends on what you want though...

MROD
March 9, 2009, 10:23 PM
I have always shot rifles and shotguns... only handguns I ever used were .22

My Father and Uncle both had 9mm Sig P228 and P226... I couldnt shoot anything with those guns.

My friend let me shoot his HK USP 45 and I was a little reluctant because i knew what a terrible shot I was with a 9mm... but much to my surprise I was shooting accurately from the get-go.

I would have to save a little to get the HK USP 45 ... but the XD 45 is almost in my price range.

So, I guess from what I am reading, I need to shoot both guns and see which I like better than right? Its kinda a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge deal?

10-Ring
March 9, 2009, 10:39 PM
HK every time ;)

feudalson
March 9, 2009, 10:41 PM
xd45

ar10
March 9, 2009, 10:58 PM
Buy what you like, not what someone else tells you. The way to do it is rent one from a range and try it out.
My question for you would be; what do you want it for, HD, target, CCW and so on.

MROD
March 9, 2009, 11:02 PM
Primarily HD

I would imagine that for CCW it would be a little large.

ArmedBear
March 9, 2009, 11:04 PM
I like the XD, but do you?

That's the question.

Can you try one?

Buy the one that feels best, as hso wrote.:)

Ridgerunner665
March 9, 2009, 11:25 PM
XD45...

Guitargod1985
March 10, 2009, 12:26 AM
I have owned both an HK USP40 compact and a Springfield XD45 Tactical at one time. Sadly I don't have either any longer, but they were both fine pistols. If I had to choose one to have again, it would be the HK, hands down though. I dare say it was the best handgun I ever owned, and the one I regret selling the most.

Here's what I like about the USPc as opposed to the XD:

-Better ergonomics (personal preference, really): I have smaller hands and due to huge grip frame, I found the XD to be somewhat of a challenge when it came to maintaining a proper firing grip at all times. The USPc seems to fit my hand perfectly and has a thin enough grip frame to accommodate a proper yet comfortable firing grip, while keeping a respectable double stack magazine.

-Controls: The Safety/decocker on the USP series is, IMO, the best thing since sliced bread. Safe is up (a la 1911) and ready/fire is down. Press down further to lower the hammer. None of that lever up = safety on BS that I have to deal with on the Stoeger Cougar (with all due respect to the Cougar - great gun otherwise). The USP series also allows carry in either Condition 1 or Condition 2 (with or without the safety enabled).

-Smoother magazine release: The XD's mag release takes a beastly effort to activate at times, and I find the USP series mag release to be more effortless and friendlier for those with shorter thumbs (me).

-Accuracy: With all respect to XD fans, my USP compact with its 3.58" barrel actually outshot my XD Tactical with it's 5" barrel with stunning regularity. I'm not sure how much of this was due to different the variation in chambering and/or how well (or not) I personally handle each gun, but I do believe the USP to be far superior in this department.

-Trigger: The USP series in DA/SA allows for the traditional first shot in double action, which some prefer for carry. Additionally, if carrying cocked and locked, one could have a consistent trigger pull from the very first shot if desired. Also, no funky "trigger safety" like the XD.

-Recoil: The USP compact soaks up the .40's recoil like it's nothing. Definitely not what you'd expect from a polymer .40 cal pistol. Can't really compare it to the XD, though, as it was chambered in .45 ACP.

-Polygonal rifling: The HK products all have polygonal barrels, which give a marginal edge in muzzle velocity and are much easier to clean. Apparently they last longer than barrels with traditional rifling, too, but I can't verify that as I've never come close to wearing out a handgun barrel. That would cost nearly as much money as I make in one year.

-Aesthetics: To each his own, but I find the curves and proportions in the USP compact to be far more aesthetically pleasing than the form of the XD. The XD, while surely not as hideous as a Glock :neener: , is nevertheless plagued by a similar blocky and unrefined appearance. While this is certainly not the primary factor in choosing a handgun, it can be the deciding factor, all other things considered.

Both pistols are among the easiest to field strip and clean/maintain and both have extremely durable top-notch finishes.

As far as customer service goes, the nod goes to Springfield Armory. That may be an important consideration for you. The XD also has an integral Picatinny rail, which some HKs (UPS series) do not. The XD also has substantially greater capacity in the same calibers.

FWIW, both are excellent guns. That said, my preference is HK. But it's just that - a preference. What works best for me may not be the best for you.

badbadtz560
March 10, 2009, 12:30 AM
So, I guess from what I am reading, I need to shoot both guns and see which I like better than right? Its kinda a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge deal?

U know I really loved the bmw that I test drove.. but didn't buy the camry just b/c I heard good reviews about it after testing the bmw

I don't see where your logic somehow connected it.

They're two completely different guns. you might shoot the xd as well as you did the HK.. but you might shoot it as well as the sig. it seems obvious to me that your fail-safe option w/o further testing is to buy the gun you shot well.

ComradeBurg
March 10, 2009, 12:36 AM
I'll also throw my vote in for the XD.

Don't get me wrong both the HK guns and the XD series are great guns but the XD costs a whole lot less. This would be fine in my book but I don't see any features on the HK guns that make them worth more money, especially hundreds more.

TG13
March 10, 2009, 12:44 AM
XD.. and you'll have enough change for ammo.. ;)

7mmSTW
March 10, 2009, 12:55 AM
I own several HK's (bias) and have shot XD's. Obviously I love HK's but do like the way XD's shoot (one of my favorite striker pistols). I have however experienced problems w/ reloads that would jam the XD but fed flawlessly through the HK. I figure the HK has a slightly more generous chamber than the XD. These rounds would lock up the XD and we actually had to go to some length to get them out. You get what you pay for, and probably will never have a problem shooting quality ammo, I prefer the HK for my experiences. YMMV

Pizzagunner
March 10, 2009, 01:07 AM
XD, because the USP is totally overrated.

And for crying out loud, on a Beretta, (or a Stoeger Cougar), the safety is meant to be for administrative handling or a last ditch trigger disabling switch in the event of a struggle for the weapon.

No one, exactly no agency or military whatsoever has adopted the 92FS, the Cougar, or the PX-4, and then mandated carrying the weapon with one in the pipe with the safety "on." It is safely carried while chambered because it has a long DA first pull, the entire point of a DA/SA pistol's rationale.

David E
March 10, 2009, 01:17 AM
Controls: The Safety/decocker on the USP series is, IMO, the best thing since sliced bread. Safe is up and ready/fire is down. Press down further to lower the hammer.

Except that, in the heat of the moment when you grip the gun extra tight, you can unexpectedly DECOCK THE GUN when you're trying to SHOOT the badguy who's trying to kill you. :eek:

FATAL design flaw in the HK's

.

HGUNHNTR
March 10, 2009, 01:21 AM
HK wins in a landslide.

XD's are fugly ;)

Ridgerunner665
March 10, 2009, 01:56 AM
XD's are fugly

I will agree with that...they are (the 5 inch models especially)...but they sure will shoot. I'm thoroughly enjoying my Compact Tactical

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/XDTactical.jpg

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
March 10, 2009, 02:04 AM
Shot both, thats why I have a new usp 45 , I just felt better in my hand. Try both b/4 you buy.

GTSteve03
March 10, 2009, 02:54 AM
Except that, in the heat of the moment when you grip the gun extra tight, you can unexpectedly DECOCK THE GUN when you're trying to SHOOT the badguy who's trying to kill you.

FATAL design flaw in the HK's
Umm... maybe I'm missing something here, but decocking the gun doesn't disable the trigger. You just get a heavier pull.

And if you're too inept to handle the Safety/Decocker combo, you can always convert it to be Safety only or Decock only, or get rid of it entirely with the LEM trigger. The USP is pretty awesome in that regard.

ar10
March 10, 2009, 06:32 AM
They may be "fugly", but so is everything else :D

MROD
March 10, 2009, 12:41 PM
This is a great forum,... I love all the opinions and perspectives to consider. Thank you everyone for helping me consider which gun to purchase. I will definitely be visiting the gun range and evaluate which gun I want to shoot.

I like both guns though, so its going to come down to feel.

Did you guys here about that guy that shot the Pastor this last Sunday, the shooter had a .45 Glock and it jammed (THANK GOD) after 3 shots.

David E
March 10, 2009, 12:57 PM
Umm... maybe I'm missing something here, but decocking the gun doesn't disable the trigger. You just get a heavier pull.

Once you release the lever to allow the linkage to reengage, you're correct. But taking incoming fire, that may not be the first thing that pops into your head to fix the problem.

And if you're too inept to handle the Safety/Decocker combo,

It's interesting how rabidly some fanboys protect their chosen item of worship. I simply pointed out a fatal design flaw that has revealed itself in the hands of cops and others. Oh, wait, they should get more training....

I don't care for HK's for a variety of reasons, this being but one of them.

GTSteve03
March 10, 2009, 01:22 PM
I simply pointed out a fatal design flaw that has revealed itself in the hands of cops and others.
Really? Can you point to a single instance where the decocker has lead to the death of someone when they accidentally decocked their pistol?

broken
March 10, 2009, 01:39 PM
i would recomend a m/p over a h/k or x/d.if i liked tupperware it would be a m/p.ill keep my steel .

David E
March 10, 2009, 01:45 PM
Really? Can you point to a single instance where the decocker has lead to the death of someone when they accidentally decocked their pistol?

Oh, does someone HAVE TO DIE before it's a vaild concern?

Wow! Tough crowd ! :rolleyes:

I didn't say anyone died. There may be some deaths attributed to this flaw, I don't know. I DO know that cops across the country have had issues with inadvertant decocking during a string of fire. It's not too hard to extrapolate that it could happen during an armed confrontation.

If this has never happened to you, great. I hope it doesn't happen for the first time during a gunfight.

.

GTSteve03
March 10, 2009, 01:57 PM
I didn't say anyone died.
The word "fatal" generally refers to death.

If this has never happened to you, great. I hope it doesn't happen for the first time during a gunfight.
I doubt it will happen to me in this instance as I don't even own an HK. So much for being a fanboy.

ArmedBear
March 10, 2009, 02:05 PM
The word "fatal" generally refers to death.

"Fatal design flaw" does not refer to the death of a specific individual.

A cleverly-veiled straw man argument, or evidence of functional illiteracy? You make the call.:rolleyes:

I don't care whether you like the HK or XD. I have and like one of them, but I have no dog in this fight. I just think this should be kept to some semblance of a rational discussion.

GTSteve03
March 10, 2009, 02:12 PM
Just for you, ArmedTeddy:

Except that, in the heat of the moment when you grip the gun extra tight, you can unexpectedly DECOCK THE GUN when you're trying to SHOOT the badguy who's trying to kill you.

FATAL design flaw in the HK's
The OP was implying that in a life or death situation, the "design flaw" of the HK would indeed lead to your death.

But thanks for providing nothing useful to the thread. :rolleyes:

David E
March 10, 2009, 02:22 PM
Perhaps a reading class is in order, Steve !

I said: Except that, in the heat of the moment when you grip the gun extra tight, you can unexpectedly DECOCK THE GUN when you're trying to SHOOT the badguy who's trying to kill you.

I didn't say you "WILL" or "MUST" decock it during a gunfight, only that you CAN decock it. It's happened on the firing range with little stress being present. If you were taking incoming fire, that's a bad time for that to happen..........or do you disagree?

I doubt it will happen to me in this instance as I don't even own an HK.

I find it interesting that people that DON'T EVEN OWN the gun in question seem to know MORE about it than people that do, or more than those that assist in training cops that must, by regulation, use them.

I wonder..............what gun DO you use for personal defense ?

KBintheSLC
March 10, 2009, 02:24 PM
Did you guys here about that guy that shot the Pastor this last Sunday, the shooter had a .45 Glock and it jammed (THANK GOD) after 3 shots.

Its strange, but my buddies Glock 21 failed to feed at the range this last week. I though it may be mag related... he said he has never cleaned his mags.:what:
I have 3 Glocks that have never ever failed... 2 in 9mm and 1 in 10mm. I wonder if the failures are more likely with the 45 acp Glocks. I have read about more failures with 45 Glocks than with 9's and 40's.

On the topic... I would get the one you like best as others stated. I personally think the XD45 is a fantastic package at a better price compared to the HK.

David E
March 10, 2009, 02:25 PM
M&P .45 is a viable choice, also.

If the Glock 21 is considered, be sure and check out and hold the 21-SF. Feels almost like a different gun. (and that's a good thing!)

.

Dan Crocker
March 10, 2009, 02:42 PM
I really like both guns, but I bought the XD 45. I don't think you are getting $400 more out of an HK, and those mags aren't cheap...
My XD hasn't disappointed me in the least. I'm sure I would have been happy with the HK as well, but I made my choice!

GTSteve03
March 10, 2009, 04:42 PM
I didn't say you "WILL" or "MUST" decock it during a gunfight, only that you CAN decock it. It's happened on the firing range with little stress being present. If you were taking incoming fire, that's a bad time for that to happen..........or do you disagree?
I don't disagree that it's poor timing, but it doesn't make it a fatal design flaw by any stretch of the imagination as all it leads to is a heavier trigger pull, still allowing the shot to go off. And, if one had trained even slightly with the pistol beforehand, they would notice if they tend to accidentally decock the gun when firing and could work around it by many different means.

I find it interesting that people that DON'T EVEN OWN the gun in question seem to know MORE about it than people that do, or more than those that assist in training cops that must, by regulation, use them.

I wonder..............what gun DO you use for personal defense ?
Just because I don't own one currently doesn't mean I've never owned one. I personally have owned an HK USP Compact 9mm in the past, and learned a lot about it while I owned it. Mine was the standard safety/decocker and I never had a single problem with accidentally decocking it while shooting, in fact the decocker was not easy to use as you had to push down the lever rather smartly. I ended up selling it as I found the recoil oddly high for a 9mm. It might have been due to how it fit my hand (or didn't fit as the case might have been.)

I currently carry a GLOCK 17, but am not totally happy with it either, but it works well enough for now.

ar10
March 10, 2009, 07:45 PM
With all the comments about decocking and cocking I'd get the XD. It's simple, pull it out of holster, point, pull trigger, and you learn very quickly not to put finger on trigger until ready to fire. :D

David E
March 10, 2009, 07:46 PM
I don't disagree that it's poor timing, but it doesn't make it a fatal design flaw by any stretch of the imagination as all it leads to is a heavier trigger pull, still allowing the shot to go off.

Under the severe stress of a gunfight, it's common to grip the gun harder than ever before. Things that may have never happened during a relaxing practice session can very well happen for the first time during a gunfight.

If you HOLD the decocking lever down, you CANNOT FIRE THE GUN until you release the lever enough to allow the linkage to reengage.

I already said that, but you apparently missed it the first time.

It's no stretch of the imagination at all to see where that can be, indeed, a fatal design flaw.

It certainly kills the gun for ME as any type of "serious" gun.

.

GTSteve03
March 10, 2009, 07:52 PM
It certainly kills the gun for ME as any type of "serious" gun.
That's fine for you.

But like I said before also, there are also many ways around this "problem" if you're unwilling to train correctly.

You can convert the gun to safety only or to the LEM trigger, either of which is easily done.

Your argument is pretty ridiculous considering the same thing could be said of any gun that has a thumb or grip safety. What if you forget to disengage the thumb safety before pulling the trigger? What about guns with grip safeties that require the correct hold or the gun won't fire? Are you opposed to 1911s and XDs because they require more training to use as well?

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