[cslinger]

If I put a .22 upper on an AR-15 do I have to change the buffer tube spring? I would assume that I would but I am not 100% sure.

Thanks
Chris

[Steve Smith]

No. The .22 uppers will have a special bolt and bolt carrier. The bolt carrier will have a recoil spring inside it.

[444]

I don't think so, but here is a link to the AR15.com rimfire and pistol caliber board: http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=15
You could post there, or call one of the manufacturers and find out for sure. I really want a .22lr upper. Of course you have to deal with the 10 round magazine which is a bummer.

[gun-fucious]

nope most (if not all) of them are a blowback operation that contains the operation in the upper reciever

the atchinsson adaptor pretty much sets the operational standard:
http://www.22lrconversions.com/m16-prt.gif
http://www.22lrconversions.com/atch-pg.htm

INSTALLATION: Field strip the firearm as you would for cleaning to include removal of the standard bolt/bolt carrier assembly. Install the unit's sub-caliber assemble, close the firearm and insert the unit's magazine. Approximate conversion time is ten seconds.

Bushmaster is working on a new 22lr upper

[cslinger]

Great that is what I wanted to hear.

Now where to get a dedicated upper in .22? Who makes the best one. I want iron sights. No flattops, no scopes, no laser beams, no heat seakers etc. I would like to have a basic A2 16-20 inch dedicated .22LR upper and a couple of magazines.

Where for would I find this beast.

Thanks
Chris

[cslinger]

One other thing. Does just using the conversion bolt really cause major problems with the gas tube. I may get the conversion bolt and magazines first and then eventually get a dedicated upper to use said bolt in.

Will I be hurting my AR's by not utilizing a dedicated upper. I do realize that accuracy will suffer due to the smaller diameter bullet and I realize the barrel can get leaded up pretty good but initially all I am looing for is an indoor plinker not match accuracy.

Now as for the leading issue. Will the Chrome Lined barrel of our Bushmasters help alleviate this problem?

Thanks so much.

Chris

[gun-fucious]

got cash?

they are not cheap

the CZ unit previously marketed by Victor is available from a few places

http://www.impactguns.com/store/cz_22_upper_ar15.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Odds___Ends.html

this one is really nice:
http://www.kuehlprecisionfirearms.com/KPF%20.22%20upper%20M-4.htm

Kurt's is a modified Atchinsson system:
http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/1131.htm

Fulton's unit :
http://www.fulton-armory.com/GEN_II.htm#CompanionUpper

i ordered one of these back in the last century

they still have not shipped:
http://www.leitner-wise.com/products/22.htm

[TechBrute]

In a recent topic of discussion, I found that the common practice is to run a couple .223 down the barrel at the end of your .22 outing to clear up the gas tube. I'm not sure as to it's effectiveness, but more than one person stated that was their SOP, and they've been using the .22 conversions for extended periods of time. As far as the chrome helping out with the lead, I'm not really sure. I would think that it would not affect the amount of leading one way or another, but the durability of it will be an advantage when scrubbing it.

Personally, I'm in the market for a conversion, so I can't speak from experience, it's just that I've been asking the same questions you are for a few months now.

[gun-fucious]

Heavier than normal leading will occur when firing the .22LR cartridge in the .223 Rem barrel. This is because of the .002 "slop" between the bullet and the barrel bore that was previously mentioned. If the barrel isn’t properly cleaned with a bore brush and solvent after each use, you run a risk of clogging your gas tube. A lot of experienced conversion kit owners recommend that a round or two of .223 ammo be fired before bringing the gun home for a thorough cleaning. The idea behind this is that the propellant gasses will blow out any lead that has worked its way into the gas tube.


http://www.fulton-armory.com/AR15-22.htm

[444]

I have never owned a .22 upper or a .22 AR conversion kit. From what I have read, it won't hurt anything, you will just get mediocre accuracy. Really, not to take anything away from this board and it's people, but that forum on AR15.com is dedicated to these exact questions. At least read the posts over there.
This is who I was going to buy mine from:http://www.kuehlprecisionfirearms.com/

[Steve Smith]

1. Where for would I find this beast.

2. Now as for the leading issue. Will the Chrome Lined barrel of our Bushmasters help alleviate this problem?

3. Will I be hurting my AR's by not utilizing a dedicated upper. I do realize that accuracy will suffer due to the smaller diameter bullet and I realize the barrel can get leaded up pretty good but initially all I am looing for is an indoor plinker not match accuracy.

4. One other thing. Does just using the conversion bolt really cause major problems with the gas tube. I may get the conversion bolt and magazines first and then eventually get a dedicated upper to use said bolt in.

Answers:

1. Huh?

2. leading in the bore should not be a problem. It isn't a problem in regular 22's. It could be a problem in a .223 upper, but not a dedicated .22RF upper.

3. No. It won't hurt it, but the gas tube could get a lot of crap in it, and the larger barrel could lead.

[Steve Smith]

Oh, and the best? Most likely the CLE model. I have one ant is is FABULOUS. The price? Well, you asked for the best, so be prepared. They are $950 for the upper. Are they worth it? Without a doubt, IF you are a competitive shooter like me. I can hold my own against the guys with Anshutz four position rifles. Mine will hold the Smallbore A-51 10 ring easily (about 3/8" at 50 meters) and could do better if I could do better. Lesser AR uppers can't come close.

I would not give one plug nickel to Foolem Armory.



There are a multitude of reasons to purchase a CLE.

[444]

"There are a multitude of reasons to purchase a CLE."

What are they ?

How would you feel if you weren't shooting serious bullseye competition. You want pretty decent accuracy, but it doesn't have to be world class. Basically the same kind of accuracy you would get from a standard .22 rifle. Would you still go with the CLE ?

I am more of a tactical shooter (obviously just playing). I like to do drills similar to pistol drills. I shoot stuff like the IDPA classifier with my AR, and other standard pistol drills. I practice shooting on the move etc. If this was the type of shooting you were doing, what would you buy. I have heard good things about Rick Kuehl, but I dont' think his M4 style .22 uppers will hold their own in a formal bullseye match against serious bullseye shooters. However, for all I know they might.

[Steve Smith]

Besides the difference in barrel diameter, a custom maker such as CLE wil cut off the chamber adapter on the conversion unit and make the new barrel with a .22RF chamber in it, eliminating a long (.223 case length) freebore like the adapters have. Finding the perfect spot to cut the conversion unit, the proper angles and distances on the barrel, and getting the springs tuned properly is a real hassle. A lot of companies are trying to make these right now. I talk with a lot of guys who have them and invariably the ones from cheaper sources (such as Olympic) are giving a lot of problems with reliability. The companies that have GOOD ones, like CLE and Accuracy Speaks all charge close to $1k for them. You definitely get what you pay for with these guns. Remember they also have very accurate sights installed (thread and detents are measured to give precise and repeatable movements) and a hell-for-stout float tube.

For a "better-than-plinker-but-not-world-class" grade, the mid-$400-500 uppers may be ok, but reliability could still be an issue. You may wind up tinkering quite a bit to get them to run a full mag though without a glitch.

[Hkmp5sd]

Will I be hurting my AR's by not utilizing a dedicated upper.

Nope. I shoot .22LRs through my M16 on full auto and have had no problems. I'm also one of those that fire a few .223 cartridges through the gun after the .22LRs. Haven't had a leading problem, but I do give it a good cleaning after each .22LR session.

However, one of the 5,423,832 things on my "to buy" list is a dedicated .22LR upper to improve the accuracy a bit.

[444]

Do you have any thoughts on this Kuehl upper ?
He talks about the chamber adapter and all that if I remember correctly.

The thing is for me, I wouldn't really want the precision sights and all that. I want an upper that is similar to the 5.56 uppers I normally shoot with. 16 barrel, flat top, probably would install an Aimpoint, would want a vertical foregrip.

[Steve Smith]

You could not tell the difference between properly made match grade A2 sights and the common off the shelf sights by looking at them. The difference is how well they work. Remember, I shoot Service Rifle...I use all A2 stuff, not fancy stuff.

Any of the manufacturers can make it with a flat top as well. They are a little cheaper, usually.