ruger blackhawk or redhawk in 45 colt?


PDA






1858rem
March 11, 2009, 10:19 AM
i am looking for a new 45 colt, i already have a ton to reload it with and i like the cartridge anyhow. is there any difference as far as strength between the blackhawk and redhawk? im really leaning towards the redhawk because i like DA a lot more. 500 bucks is about what i have to work with but can go more. what price do these normally go for? i checked gun broker but didnt see any 5.5 or 7.5 redhawks in 45 colt.

so what are the advantages or disadvantages to each?

ill be target shooting and a TON of plinking and maybe eventually hunting. 255g@1000fps is plenty for now but i will venture on if i want to make up a hunting load....maybe as high as 1250 and a 255g? safe in these guns? what is the accuracy like, is 2" off a rest doable at 25 yards.
please and thanks for any and all help:)

If you enjoyed reading about "ruger blackhawk or redhawk in 45 colt?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Redhawk1
March 11, 2009, 11:03 AM
Either will work fine, the Redhawk in 45 Colt is going to be harder to find that the Blackhawk. Ruger quit making the 45 Colt in the Redhawk.

Another stupid mistake Ruger made.

At 25 yards, 2 inch groups are very doable, the guns are probably capable of better at 25 yards, and I have shot better than 2 inch groups with my Blackhawk 45 Colt.

MCgunner
March 11, 2009, 11:34 AM
My blackhawk will routinely put my light OR my heavy load into an inch, which is about as good as my eyes work with iron sights, at 25 yards. My light load is a Lee mold, cast 255 flat nose over 8.3 grains of Unique. My heavy load is 18 grains of 2400 and a 300 grain Hornady XTP JHP. It's a hot load, but the Ruger handles it. I mostly shoot the light cast bullet load, of course, and the heavy load is for hunting and walking in bear woods. Since I haven't hunted with the gun much (usually grab my .30-30 Contender), it's rarely fired with the 300 grain load. Both Redhawk and Blackhawk are strong enough for this level of load. I just prefer the single actions for field use. The 255 grain load clocks a little over 900 fps and the 300 grainer clocks 1120, this from a 4 5/8" barrel. I really like the Blackhawk better for carry, lighter. I originally got the thing when I was chasing hogs at night with a guy who had dogs. It wasn't for taking the hog out, we cut their throats with a knife when the dogs had 'em pinned, but for just in case a big boar got loose of the dogs, which didn't happen. At the time, all I had were a .357 4" Ruger Security Six and a 1911 to carry. I wanted more and I love Blackhawks and I've always liked the idea of the .45 Colt in a Blackhawk. Well, now I'm a real lover of the combination having owned this gun for about 20 years. I no longer chase hogs, but I have hogs on my place and often carry this gun down there when I'm working on something or just bumming around.

For your uses, you'll probably want a a 5.5" or longer barrel. I LOVE the 4 5/8" Blackhawks for balance and carry, but a longer barrel will zip the heavy loads a lot better and give you a little more sight radius. I get 1200 fps out of my 7" .45 Colt/.410 Contender barrel with the same hot load. That's about 1000 ft lbs and bear in mine, that barrel loses quite a bit in the long jump of the bullet to the rifling where there's quite a bit of blow by. In a 7.5" Redhawk or Blackhawk barrel, that load would probably kick up 1250 or better.

Hope that experience helps you make up your mind. I have a single action bias, so don't let that bother your decision. LOL The Redhawk is a great gun, just a might heavy for my uses and doesn't have the lovely look of the single action. It does have the advantafe of a little faster lock time in single action mode. I see no real use for DA in a field gun, though, none at all. I probably have watched too many Clint Eastwood westerns, though. Joe Kidd was on last night. :D

Floppy_D
March 11, 2009, 11:54 AM
I picked up a Blackhawk in 45 Colt recently, I'm sure impressed with it. Only got about 70 rounds through it, but the accuracy is what I hoped it would be. I won't be getting rid of it.

Old Fuff
March 11, 2009, 11:57 AM
Either will work fine, the Redhawk in 45 Colt is going to be harder to find that the Blackhawk. Ruger quit making the 45 Colt in the Redhawk.

Another stupid mistake Ruger made.

They did that because they were tired of getting revolvers returned with expanded chambers or worse. The cause of course were owners who were determined to use "Ruger or Thompson Contender Only" reloads. Bill Ruger referred to these loads as "revolver abuse," and from the company's point of view ended any liability they might have - which was next to none, but you still have to spend a lot of money on legal costs when you get sued.

MCgunner
March 11, 2009, 12:23 PM
I'm sure I've only got less than 300 rounds of hot stuff through my Blackhawk in the 20 years I've owned it, but it still shoots fine and locks up tight. I wouldn't worry about what Bill Ruger thought of the hot loads, not in the Blackhawk. I've always heard the Redhawk would handle such loads, but maybe not. I don't own one.

ArmedBear
March 11, 2009, 12:38 PM
What do you mean they don't make a .45 Redhawk?

Here it is:
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5027&return=Y

CA_sharpshooter
March 11, 2009, 12:41 PM
I have the Blackhawk and it is by far one of my favorite guns. Never fired the redhawk so no opinion there

Master Blaster
March 11, 2009, 12:59 PM
Have a redhawk in .44 magnum, and blackhwk in .45colt, and a super blackhawk in .44 magnum. I prefer the blackhawk to the redhawk. More accurate, lighter, and able to take those Ruger only loads.

MCgunner
March 11, 2009, 01:12 PM
That 4" Redhawk is only 46 ounces and looks pretty good. :D

The 4 5/8" stainless Blackhawk like mine is only 4 ounces lighter than that, but the blued one with the alloy grip is only 36 ounces, which is significant for the trail if you're carrying all day. I like the stainless, though, stainless grip frame and all. My 6.5" .357 is blued and the grip frame is fading a bit where the hand touches it. I do like Stainless for a field gun, but 36 ounces on the hip for the blued one would be lovely if I still did much back packing. That's not much heavier than a K frame .357. Hell, who needs a Tracker? :D

ArmedBear
March 11, 2009, 01:30 PM
"Only" 46 oz.?

I think I'd take this if I had the cash burning a hole in my pocket and were looking for a .45 Colt DA carry gun:) : http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=85953&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

I think that, in general, I'd want the Blackhawk in .45 Colt, though.

Redhawk1
March 11, 2009, 05:47 PM
What do you mean they don't make a .45 Redhawk?

Here it is:
http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProd...=5027&return=Y

I stand corrected. I forgot the came out with that UGLY 4 inch.

Beagle-zebub
March 11, 2009, 08:28 PM
Was I mistaken in my thinking that the Redhawk was stronger than the Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk? I think I got this impression from companies like Garrett saying which guns their loads could be fired in, but those only covered .44 magnum, not .45 Colt.

Plinker Craig
March 11, 2009, 08:50 PM
I stand corrected. I forgot the came out with that UGLY 4 inch.
Ruger web page says:
"** A choice of 4", 5 1/2" or 7 1/2" barrel length."

Not so ugly after all ;)

frogomatic
March 11, 2009, 08:54 PM
get the redhawk in 454 casull and you'll be able to run 45colts through it as well. That's what I did and I've never regretted it. And the good thing about ruger, they way overengineer their pistols, so you REALLY have to try hard to blow one up.

MCgunner
March 11, 2009, 09:26 PM
"Only" 46 oz.?


Well, yeah, but the longer barreled ones are over 50 ounces. That kinda hurts, LOL. I think my scoped contender is lighter than my son-in-law's 7.5" .44 mag redhawk. That thing is a mammoth.


I think I'd take this if I had the cash burning a hole in my pocket and were looking for a .45 Colt DA carry gun : http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...-1&isFirearm=Y

I think that, in general, I'd want the Blackhawk in .45 Colt, though.


If I had a Mountain Gun, good trail gun, I'd get it in .44 mag. The gun in .45 Colt isn't strong enough for the hotter loads. .44 gives the cylinder more beef and there's less case head thrust or set back or whatever it's called. IOW, the case head is smaller, thus allowing higher pressures. In .45 Colt, I do prefer the Blackhawk. Actually, I prefer the Blackhawk anyway, much stronger gun and no harder to carry.

I've kinda wanted a blued 4 5/8" one or perhaps a 5.5" one, since I don't have a Blackhawk in that barrel length, in .41 Magnum. I've been enthralled by the thought of the .41 for quite a while. It'll do anything the .45 Colt or .44 mag will do, really, at least when handloaded. Not a lot of factory stuff out there, but I kinda like the oddball stuff being a handloader.

1858rem
March 11, 2009, 11:23 PM
well i got 250 loaded rounds and the makins for another 1000+ so id like stickin with 45 colt, plus they make sweet big round holes in a target. my previous 45 weighed 44oz, i dont remember but i think it was unloaded weight. 5.5" would be nice, the 8"bbl i had and 14.5" overall was a bit slow on the draw lol. i like the blackhawk but as much as i shoot id like the swing out cylinder.......but then again i had no ejector before and used a pencil to pop out spent shells....so maybe a built in ejector will be quicker than expected

TimboKhan
March 12, 2009, 12:44 AM
I don't think that 4 inch Redhawk is ugly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

That being said, I think the 5.5 inch barrel would be my choice. Maybe one day. I have always sort of wanted a Redhawk, but there are just other guns I would rather have at the moment...

MovedWest
March 12, 2009, 05:09 AM
I'm a bit biased as I own a couple super blackhawks, but go with the blackhawk. Not sure about the resiliency of the blackhawk compared to the super blackhawk (made in .44Mag only), but these are some reliable, accurate, and tough guns.

Just don't push the limits of the .45LC expecting .44Mag performance because of safety concerns. IMO if you want .44Mag performance, get a .44Mag.

-MW

kludge
March 12, 2009, 12:51 PM
I like DA too, and I got the 4" Redhawk... I would have preferred a 5.5 barrel though, but even thought website says they make it, I can't find a model number... I would love to be proven wrong... especially if I could put a scope on a 5.5" Redhawk... the perfect medicine for whitetail.

The 4" is nicely packable.

Redhawk is stronger, but still would not do some of the crazy stuff Linebaugh does...unless you're going to buy a gun that is made to take it with proper manufacturing tolerances, and no factory Ruger is IMO.

I personally will stick to the 25k data, if I need more than that I have a .454 Casull

1858
March 13, 2009, 11:34 PM
I stand corrected. I forgot the came out with that UGLY 4 inch.

What ARE you guys smoking ... I bought "that UGLY 4 inch" last year and it's now one of my favorites. It's accurate AND fun to shoot and it looks AWESOME to me! :neener:

I prefer the blackhawk to the redhawk. More accurate, lighter, and able to take those Ruger only loads.

The Redhawk can EASILY handle "those Ruger only loads". In fact, your hands will give out long before the Redhawk does ... trust me ... I KNOW!!

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/RH01.jpg

:)

1858rem
March 13, 2009, 11:44 PM
and about how long is that? i only do about 100 rds at a time, sometimes 25-50 though. like i said... poppin em out with a pencil was not too fast lol

1858
March 14, 2009, 12:09 AM
250gr bullets with 22.0gr to 24.0gr of H110 (not a maximum Redhawk/Blackhawk load by any means) are fun for 50 to 100 rounds. The tip of my trigger finger takes the most beating under recoil but it's bearable. When I get home, I know I did something that day. The Hogue grips really do an amazing job of absorbing recoil, but once the loads creep up to maximum values, then it gets a bit brutal ... but still less brutal than maximum loads in a .44 Mag with a 4" barrel.

:)

1858rem
March 14, 2009, 12:21 AM
much more than recoil from a 2 2/3 lb gun and 255g@ 930fps avg?

1858rem
March 14, 2009, 12:24 AM
just as a side note, if you check out my other post on the blown up pistol in legal section, its amazing how thin the cylinder walls were at the cut out for the locking lug

MCgunner
March 14, 2009, 12:40 AM
I like 4" DA guns, look like what a DA revolver is SUPPOSED to look like. Of course, I grew up when cops all carried 'em, not Redhawks, but 4" revolvers. I had a Security Six that looked a lot like the Redhawk. I always thought those 7-10" revolvers were the oddballs. :neener:

1858
March 14, 2009, 12:46 AM
1858rem, I just read your thread in the legal section ... HOLY CRAP!! Here's a comparison of the recoil between the load I'm using in my Redhawk and the load that caused your 1858 cylinder to come apart.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/RHrecoil.jpg

I used the recoil calculator here (http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp).

I'm still wondering how the heck a loose primer pocket could do that? Wouldn't the primer try to move FORWARD under recoil i.e. deeper into the primer pocket? Would that set it off?

:)

P.S. Glad to "see" that you're ok after that traumatic experience.

1858
March 14, 2009, 12:48 AM
I like 4" DA guns, look like what a DA revolver is SUPPOSED to look like. Of course, I grew up when cops all carried 'em, not Redhawks, but 4" revolvers. I had a Security Six that looked a lot like the Redhawk. I always thought those 7-10" revolvers were the oddballs.

Finally ... something I agree with! :D

:)

1858rem
March 14, 2009, 12:59 AM
1858 is that 4" the one you did testing on as far as velocity in your 45 colt rifle compared to pistol?

1858
March 14, 2009, 01:06 AM
Yes it is.

:)

Old Fuff
March 14, 2009, 02:27 AM
I'm still wondering how the heck a loose primer pocket could do that?

As the firing pin impacts and detonates a primer, the powder is ignited. The cylinder is first pushed forward and then slams backward. If a primer is loose in an adjoining chamber it can move out of the pocket, and then be slammed against the recoil shield by the case head. In effect you set off two cartridges at once. Many years ago I was standing next to a friend who was shooting an old Colt S.A.A. with substantial cylinder end-shake. This condition wasn’t uncommon with these six-shooters. He was also using mild reloads in cases that had been loaded countless times, and his revolver blew up exactly like this one.

1858
March 14, 2009, 05:01 AM
Old Fuff, so how loose does a primer pocket need to be in order for that to happen? How do you "measure" primer pocket tightness?

Thanks.
:)

Old Fuff
March 14, 2009, 10:48 AM
Old Fuff, so how loose does a primer pocket need to be in order for that to happen? How do you "measure" primer pocket tightness?

Good question, but I don't have an easy answer. Some handloaders tell by feel, while using a hand tool to seat primers. If you buy some new, unprimed cases and prime them you will soon be able to sense what the resistance should be. After the 3rd or 4th time a case is reprimed you'll usually notice a difference, but a loose (oversized) pocket can crop up any time.

This is a revolver issue, although I have known of an unexpected discharge when a pistol went into battery and the chambered cartridge had a high (and stuck) primer. No damage was done to the gun, but this is one reason you never drop the slide unless the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.

Fortunately this sort of thing doesn't happen very often, and when it does the blame is placed on a powder overcharge. I can't say for sure that this is what happened in this incident, but all of the clues are in place. If the primer is still in the "second round” look at it with a strong magnifying glass and see if tool marks from the breechface are imprinted in it.

Incidentally, going to a stronger model, such as a Ruger Redhawk – which is as strong as they come – won’t save you if this happens. The pressures involved with still take the top half or side of the cylinder off.

1858rem
March 14, 2009, 11:02 AM
well now i think i know what did it now, there were about 3/8 that seemed...not so tight. i think the loose primer pocket is my most likely cause going by old fluff's reasoning....... i dont see how else my loading could be at fault other than me being too tight to toss a 24 cent primed and prepped piece of brass, cause i had no idea it could destroy a 500 dollar revolver:banghead::banghead::banghead:.



back to this thread i think ill go with the single action blackhawk, i still like the redhawk but too far outta my price range, as are the 454's. i said id shell out 500 bucks mostly since thats about what i had in my 1858 and thought i shouldnt try and go cheap, if i see a blackhawk for 300 bucks like the other guy id jump on it though:D:neener:

Cohibra45
March 14, 2009, 12:16 PM
I've got both (5.5" SS Bisley and 5.5" Redhawk), plus an old model 7.5" convertible, plus an older S&W Mountain gun (with firing pin in hammer)........all in 45 Colt!!!

Looking for a Freedom Arms 83 Premier in 45 Colt with 5.5" barrel......Anyone???

:D:D:D

1858rem
March 14, 2009, 01:02 PM
Cohibra45

which do you shoot the most?

Cohibra45
March 14, 2009, 05:45 PM
Probably the S&W, but of the Rugers, I shoot both the Bisley and Redhawk. I seem to favor the Bisley, but my son really likes the Redhawk...go figure!!!:D:D:D

BTW, all seem to go with my Rossi/Puma SS 20" SRC in 45 Colt!!;):cool:

MCgunner
March 14, 2009, 11:35 PM
Son-in-law's Rossi 92 is in .45 colt. Mine's in .357 magnum. I really like shooting light .38s in my .357, but the .45 Colt is neat, too. I really can't figure out the caliber I like best in the lever guns, but I swing toward the .357 just do to the power with magnums and the .22 like shooting experience with really light .38s loaded with a 105 SWC over 2.3 grains of Bullseye. That thing is fun. :D

I also have a .357 Blackhawk among other .357s to go with the rifle. One of these days, maybe I'll find a used .45 Colt 92 for the .45 Blackhawk. :D He's got a Williams receiver sight on his which is REALLY neat.

Cohibra45
March 15, 2009, 04:07 PM
Best thing about my 45 Colt collection is I can load up some warm rounds and not fear shooting them in anything I own. I'm not talking of making any 454 Casull rounds, but 265-320gr bullets going almost 1100-1200fps out of the revolvers do really well out of the Puma also!!!:evil:

Blue Brick
March 15, 2009, 10:12 PM
RedHawk

Walkalong
March 15, 2009, 11:50 PM
Ruger web page says:
"** A choice of 4", 5 1/2" or 7 1/2" barrel length."If they are making the 5.5 & 7 1/2" ones in .45 Colt now, they dang sure aren't for sale.

I sure like my .44 Mag Redhawk (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=83469&d=1219442781). I would like one in .45 Colt as well. I do have a .41 Mag Redhawk.

I think some people think the Rugers can take any load they can come up with. Well, strong as they are, there are sane limits to anything mechanical.

Cohibra45
March 16, 2009, 01:42 PM
I think some people think the Rugers can take any load they can come up with. Well, strong as they are, there are sane limits to anything mechanical.

I agree completely Walkalong.......That is why I have read as much as I can about the 45 Colt and it's loadings. Dick Casull first started experimenting with the 45 Colt back in the 50's I believe....even before that, Elmer Keith really liked the 45 even after his old revolver let go on him. He claimed it was the old balloon head case that was at fault. Whatever it was, he started working with the 44 Special and the 44 Mag was developed after many years of his experimentation in loading up the 44 Special. Same thing with the 454 Casull...the original people that developed it using the 45 Colt wanted to make sure that it wouldn't fit in the cylinder and blow up the gun.

However, the 45 Colt can be safely loaded up a bit for Rugers. If you take the time and read John Linebaugh's article on the 45 Colt (http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm) you will see that using common sense, and watching the cup pressures, the 45 Colt is a very impressive round. That article and those by John Taffin have had me leaning in the 45 direction for basically all my revolvers. I am frugal also in that I like having one caliber to reload for!!!:D:D

Take care and good shootin'

Cohibra45 (ol' MasterBrewer in the old days of sixguns.com) http://www.sixguns.com/

1858rem
March 16, 2009, 10:53 PM
i found a real nice 7.5" blackhawk convertable with the acp cylinder but ist priced kinda steep, ill probably get it anyhow......i mean, whats 50 more bucks when you could be having a blast all week with it!

If you enjoyed reading about "ruger blackhawk or redhawk in 45 colt?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!