[JimJD]

Just so I'm not going crazy or missing something...

What's the difference between Lee's "Deluxe Rifle Die Set" and the "PaceSetter Die set". This would be for .223 Remington, finished rounds would be tailored/used in a bolt action (varmit type) and an AR pattern rifle.

Thanks! :)

[bongfoo]

pacesetter is a full length sizing die + factory crinp die and the bullet seating die.

deluxe die set is full length die, collet die, and seating die without the crinp die.

i bought the deluxe set and ordered the crimp die for just a few bucks more. that way i have the option of full lenght resizing (for when i get a hold of once fired brass not from my kel-tec) or just resizing the neck for brass thats been shot through my kel-tec.

[JimJD]

Great, thanks bongfoo! :D

Do I need to buy a decapping die with any of these sets, or is that part of the operation handled with the sizing die?

[rcmodel]

Sizing die de-primes while sizing.

Only reason you ever need a dedicated universal de-priming die is if you want to clean primer pockets defore tumbling & sizing.

rc

[CU74]

Do I need to buy a decapping die with any of these sets, or is that part of the operation handled with the sizing die?

The Lee sizing die (and I think every other manufacturer's) includes the decapping pin with a case mouth "inside sizer". Size and decap in one operation.......

[JimJD]

Oh, ok. :)
What does everyone here prefer? Decap then clean the primer pocket, and finish with a tumbler? Or the same/similar steps in a different order?
I imagine if one decaps first, then tumbles the brass... you might be picking out pieces of tumbler media?
But all tumbled brass should be inspected anyway....Hmmmm.

[Historian]

I always clean my .223 brass before sizing and decapping. After sizing, I throw it in the tumbler again for about an hour to clean off the Imperial Sizing Wax. When I take the brass out of the tumbler, I always put it neck down into the reloading block and then run a bright light over the block looking for media stuck in the flash hole. When I find one (maybe one or two out of fifty), I poke it out with an old decapping pin. I have never bothered to clean the primer pockets on my .223 brass. The second tumbling seems to do a pretty good job of that.

Historian

[Doug b]

JimJD,be advised the deluxe set may use the dead length seater die.A good die but it sets up different than other seat dies.

[JimJD]

What's "dead length" in regards to the seating die?

[ForneyRider]

dead length means no crimp.

I like a separate decapping die. Decapping dies are $14. If you break the pin because you are trying to decap a Berdan or a crimped primer, which I did last night, you are just abusing the cheap decapping die, and not the resizing die. Lee offers replacement pins, so I pick them up 2 at a time.

Plus I tend to decap all my shot brass at once of several calibers, so the Lee decapping die is universal, some of the other brands are not.

LC brass with crimped primers has not been kind to decapping.

[Doug b]

No crimp and the die is adjusted down onto a fully raised shell holder plus 1/4 turn more "to remove all press slop".The case is fully contained in the die body when seating.


Jim if you adjust a die with a crimp collar in it this way you will mangle the caseing.

[RustyFN]

What does everyone here prefer? Decap then clean the primer pocket, and finish with a tumbler? Or the same/similar steps in a different order?
The only rifle I load is 223 for my AR. This is how I load.
1: clean
2: size and deprime
3: check length and trim the ones that need it
4: load
5: tumble to remove lube

I don't clean primer pockets.
Rusty

[JimJD]

Wow, lots of info. Thanks!
So... it means no crimp on the finished .223 round. This might sound stupid, so please bare with me. Can a crimp be put on once all of the loading operations have been completed using a die like that? Or do I need to go with the other Lee .223 die set?
:confused:

[Doug b]

Jim if you use the dead length seat die it will absolutely not crimp ,you will need a different seater or special crimp die to crimp if you find it necessary.Yes a crimp can be ,and in my opinion ,should be put on separately in a final operation.That being said I think I'm safe saying a crimp is not necessary and probably counter-productive from an accuracy standpoint in your applications.

I've gotten some outstanding groups with the lee collet resize die and dead length seater in my .223 using H335 powder and CCI 450 primers.

[JimJD]

So the deluxe die set for .223 might not be the way to go? Or at least at this time. Maybe the PaceSetter or Collet set? Or one type for my AR and another for more accurate (possibly) loads that would be fed into the SPS 700 Varmit? Hmmmm.

Edit: Ooooo.... just read that the Lee Collet dies are not recommended for for autoloaders, slide, or lever action guns.

[RustyFN]

So... it means no crimp on the finished .223 round.
I forgot that part. I do run them through a FCD but just touch the case mouth enough to smooth it out to eliminate any feeding issues, I don't add a crimp.
So the deluxe die set for .223 might not be the way to go? Or at least at this time. Maybe the PaceSetter or Collet set? Or one type for my AR and another for more accurate (possibly) loads that would be fed into the SPS 700 Varmit? Hmmmm.
If you are loading for a AR then you will want to FL size and IMO the Pacesetter set would be best. If you are going to be loading for a AR and bolt gun then I would buy the deluxe set and a FCD separate.
Rusty

[ForneyRider]

For an AR and bolt .223, I'd get the deluxe and pick up the collet neck-sizer die.

I put a neck-sized cartridge in my AR and it was a PITA to get back out.

If they have different twists, you may want to run 2 different bullets so that will make them easier to distinguish. I use magic marker to mark my loads. I have quite a few Sierras that have similar shape and hard to tell difference between 69gr and 60gr BTHP, etc.

[Historian]

If you're going to crimp your cartidges for use in an AR (and I don't feel that it's necessary), I would recommend using a taper crimp with a light touch.

Historian

[JimJD]

Alright! :D
I just ordered about half (sans components) of the things I need to start reloading. Everything else I need is out of stock right now and it gives me some time to save more money!.
Here's the kicker... it turns out I might not be able to set up a "proper" bench, or even construct a folding bench that's made from a Black & Decker WorkMate. But that could change. So, as part of my order (and I always wanted one of these) I have a Lee Hand press kit coming my way.

[Dean Williams]

The Hand Press is pretty neat, Jim. Very useful.
If you haven't already ordered your dies, just go ahead and get the Deluxe set. It comes with the collet neck sizer and full length case sizing die, so, you can use which ever one you need.

[JimJD]

Thanks Dean.
I purchased the Lee Deluxe Rifle Die set along with a Factory Crimp Die in .223 Remington. Besides that and the hand press, I picked up an Auto Prime, set of shell holders for the Auto Prime, Lee powder scale, case trimmer / lock stud, and powder dipper dipper set (for other situations and in case) so far.

When it's back in stock, I'll be getting a Lee 38 Spl./357 Mag. deluxe/4 die set, chamfer tool, case length gauges for both .223 & 38 Spl./.357, primer pocket cleaner, universal decapping die (I have some LC brass and hey, why not?), a caliper (not sure if I'm going analog or digital), bullet puller (prob. an RCBS), loading block(s), tumbler and media, and maybe a digital scale to make sure things match up. I think I have everything covered, but I'll be going through a checklist a few times to be sure. Oh, and I'm good on the safety glasses.

If there's anything I missed, please let me know! :D

[Dean Williams]

Have you got a bench mounted press besides the Hand Press?

[JimJD]

No, this would be my first time reloading. It's too bad, I have a Lee Reloader Press that's been sitting in the box.