[Larry56]

I know a guy that lives North of me that is a dealer for Bond Arms that makes the 45/410 Derringer and he sells them like HOT cakes for a self Defense weapon.Most everyone of his customers are buying it NOT for the 45 Colt round but the 410 side.He showed us the damage at 10 ft with it and I was totally excited about the size of pattern with it,,ITS got to be awesome on human flesh takin that amount of shot.He shot a Cardboard box with it BUT STILL folks,that is a lot of power out of a small handgun.

Cardboard and flesh are no DOUBT different,but still,,thats a pattern I dont want to be headed at ME,,NO SIR!!

Has anybody had any experience with them? I have shot one and there re~coil wasnt NEAR as expected as the bulk of the powder is burned outside the barrel.

[Dr.Rob]

I'm positive the "Box Of Truth" has addressed this. Look up BoxOfTruth and see various myths dispelled.

[Larry56]

Location of this is where?

[deputy tom]

Right here Larry56...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

I read in a magazine article close to twenty years ago that you needed at least 13" of bbl. to get lethal results from a .410 SG. An officer was shot in the face at point blank range during a traffic stop with a sawed off SG ( like 6" bbl.??) in .410 and survived.YMMV.tom.

[Jorg]

I've shot one a bit. Found it was more accurate with .410 slugs than .45 Colt and patterned better with .45 Colt Shotshells then .410 shells.

They seem well made, but the performance/capacity vs. weight/cost/size resulted me in me lumping it in the "range toy" category rather than "self-defense tool" category.

[elkyote]

Weak sauce. Now the 45/70 Derringer on the other hand... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P34v983P2j4

Notice how he wipes the sweat off of it and his hand first LOL.

[nonseven]

It shoots 3" 410 shells. Judging by the recoil, there is a lot of power in that load. The 3" shell with 5 pellets of 000 buck get plenty of penetration to be lethal. That being said, my Rohrbaugh R9s is the preferred carry pistol.

[Glock-IT]

I don't know much about the 45/410. But I own a Bond derringer Snake Slayer frame and 5 different barrels.
22, 38/357, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 acp. There are a lot of skeptics that will tell you it is not a good carry or ccw. I personally never leave home without it. I have found that they are considerable accurate if you practice with it and get comfortable with the whole derringer thing. As for 410 buckshot or 45 colt, I believe they are both great personal protection rounds but I carry 357 mag 00 buckshot rounds in mine and I shoot snakes with the 38 spl. #9 shot and I find it easy to hang on to. The gun has a lot of great features to me with the different barrels and I really like shooting the other calibers in as well.
~Buck

[Shadan7]

Yeah, I have one. And like nonseven said, with the 3" 5 pellet 000 buck it seems to be a worthy close-range weapon. In fact, my wife has it as her bedside gun. At 5 yard distances, the pattern will spread about 18".

But as a carry weapon? Sheesh, no thanks. Two shots and the thing is bigger than my 642, and about twice the weight? Heck, my Para 12.45 isn't a whole lot bigger or heavier.

7

[jester_s1]

It's a pointless gun. As stated above, the power isn't impressive, you only get two shots, and it's got no accuracy or distance. An airweight J frame is worlds better as a defensive pistol.

[KevininPa]

It's a niche firearm. I like mine for walking the dog with 2.5 shells. One a # 9, the other a #4. Good for a snake or a rabid critter. The #4 cloud at 3-5 yards is way better than my point shooting capabilities at super close range. It will drop a rabid cat at that range with no problem. I know this from experience, I live rural and have to deal with this from time to time, thanks to the city jerks who do " drop-offs" because they think the critter they don't want anymore will live and be happy out my way in nature. Let's not go there, these wanna-be PETA idiots piss me off.
Lately since the crime has picked up down in the Valley, I like mine as a car gun for anti-carjacking insurance. I load up with 3 inch buck shot rounds. That's the only 3 inchers I use in this firearm BTW. I've found that in the longer loads the force of the extra powder blows the lighter shot out in a wider, unusable spread. Read that somewhere and have found it to be true. My carry is at 4 'o' clock and not easily grabbed with seatbelts and all. The BA SS is in my door compartment ready to go. I also don't give a rats butt about the BOT. At 5 yards my SnakeSlayer will put 00 buck through a 1 inch pine board with the 3 inchers. Even if it doesn't put a car jacker down at less than that range, it will certainly put a hurtin' on him.
Would I carry it in an urban area where crime is prevalent? God No! But it does fit in its niches. You have to decide if it suits your needs for certain situations. If I were on a tight budget, I wouldn't buy one. You can get more self protection from less expensive firearms. It's not cheap, but it is very well made. It's a tank, slightly smaller and lighter than the Taurus 605 I just bought for the wife. And cost more! I got mine awhile ago when I was more flush. Think about your needs before you buy.

[gbran]

I read their stuff on the Judge test. They mentioned they patterned it at 10 yards (30 feet). I don't know if all their shooting was at this yardage.

I wish Box O Truth had tested the Judge at 5 yards (15 feet) which I think is closer to where these 410 handguns shine.

I think these things were intended for pretty close work. I played with my dad's judge and found about 18 feet with #4's or 6's to be the effective limit.

Personally, I wouldn't choose one for self defense as I don't want to be limited to that short distance and while they may hurt like hell and be psychologically devestating, I'm not sure they're a good manstopper.

[ArchAngelCD]

I have a Double 410/.45 Colt that looks like someone shrunk a full size Double down to 6" and slapped a Derringer grip in it. It's fun to shoot but it's a real handful with 3" Slugs!! It's a lot cheaper that those sold by Bond Arms too.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/ArchAngelCD/DD_410_1.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/ArchAngelCD/DD_410_2.jpg

[nonseven]

That new Federal personal defense handgun load claims much better penetration with a handgun:

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=847

Should be interesting to try.

The most fun I have with my Bond is throwing clay pigeons up in the air with my left hand, and shooting them with the gun in my right hand, using .410 birdshot. It's not so much how you shoot the gun, it's how you throw the clay.

[KevininPa]

I think I'll check those rounds out!

[Dr. Fresh]

ArchAngelCD, that's a cool piece. Who made it?

[mgkdrgn]

I'm positive the "Box Of Truth" has addressed this. Look up BoxOfTruth and see various myths dispelled.

Oh ya, the guys that couldn't even be bothered with buying the correct ammo for their tests (they cut down 3" shells to 2 1/2" by hand), and did their pattern tests at 10 yards on a gun meant for short range self defense.

[JImbothefiveth]

Nonetheless, I still doubt it will meet the FBI reccomendations. I doubt it would reach even half of that. Maybe the buckshot would work.

[mgkdrgn]

I read in a magazine article close to twenty years ago that you needed at least 13" of bbl. to get lethal results from a .410 SG.

At ten feet (the range its meant for ... not 10 -yards-), my 2 1/2 chamber Judge will put all 3 pellets from a 000 Winchester buckshot load clean through 4" of pine, and put all 3 in a pattern about 12" across. That's like 3 hits from a 38 special with each pull of the trigger, plenty enough to be lethal, and more than enough to be "very discouraging".

An officer was shot in the face at point blank range during a traffic stop with a sawed off SG ( like 6" bbl.??) in .410 and survived.YMMV.tom.

And there are lots of folks around that have been shot with everything from a .22 to a .45 Colt to German 88's to SAM 2's. Not every shot fired from any firearm is fatal 100% of the time. But to say 410 =needs= at least 13" of bbl to be "fatal" is just patently false.

[ArchAngelCD]

Dr. Fresh,
It's now being made by Cobrey. It's a fairly old design that's been bounced around by a few companies and it's fairly new to Cobrey. It's being sold under the company name of Leinad based in TN. It's called simply the Model DD and they have a single barrel called the Model D.

[Dr. Fresh]

Awesome. Thanks.

[HexHead]

I would imagine a face full of .410 shot would be pretty disorienting,not to mention discouraging. Follow up with .45 LC to stop the threat if necessary.

[IMTHDUKE]

I bought and sold quickly a Judge....it locked up on me first time to the range. I have owned a derringer, but as was said...too many limitation and too many better guns to carry. I will go with either of these as I go to the asphalt jungle.
http://photos.gafana.com/photos/0366252220996530803911.share.jpg

http://photos.gafana.com/photos/1156252900996528755923.share.jpg

[ArchAngelCD]

Both those guns you posted are very expensive and not what the OP asked about. Why is there always someone in every thread who feels the need to tell the OP how wrong they are for wanting a gun other than what you think they should have? :rolleyes:

[MCgunner]

A Ruger LCP, Kel Tec P3AT, or PF9 are in the same price range as a bond arms derringer and are lighter and at least AS concealable, moreso than a .410. I'd prefer any of the three, myself. I carry a P11. You ain't gotta spend a grand to get a reliable, accurate .380 or 9mm.

I saw a Cobray .410 at a gun show some time back for $150. I thought about it, then logic move me on down the table. LOL Bond arms at least makes some quality stuff even if I'd prefer something else. Also, American Derringer also makes quality. I'd steer away from Cobray/Davis. I think I'd also want one in maybe 9x19 or .38 special. .410 is a handful in a little gun and not as much a stopper in such a short barrel.

[ChuteTheMall]

A friend had one of the Cobray or FMJ .45/410 models about a decade ago. He foolishly left it on his coffee table, and in the wee hours of the morning his stupid drunken roommate came home, and fired it. Some cheap bird shot.

From a distance of less than 10 feet, it hit the cheap plastic venetian blinds covering the glass patio door.
The glass was not even scratched, the thin plastic blinds were not perforated but it did leave many little marks, like pencil dots, some of which dented the plastic.

Like throwing 1/8 teaspoon of sand, pretty worthless IMHO.

I fired .45 colt thru it at the range once, that wasn't fun.

[nonseven]

The new Federal load, with faster burning powder, could be a real improvement for a 410 self defense load. If you want a derringer, I suggest the Bond, due to the high quality and barrel/caliber changing ability. Of all the guns I have, it's the most fun to shoot.

[MCgunner]

A friend had one of the Cobray or FMJ .45/410 models about a decade ago. He foolishly left it on his coffee table, and in the wee hours of the morning his stupid drunken roommate came home, and fired it. Some cheap bird shot.

From a distance of less than 10 feet, it hit the cheap plastic venetian blinds covering the glass patio door.
The glass was not even scratched, the thin plastic blinds were not perforated but it did leave many little marks, like pencil dots, some of which dented the plastic.

Like throwing 1/8 teaspoon of sand, pretty worthless IMHO.

I fired .45 colt thru it at the range once, that wasn't fun.
__________________

I do not doubt this. I have a Contender with a 10" .410 barrel. Now, this barrel is a lot of fun and I highly recommend it for fun, but powerful it ain't. I was down at my place one day with my .22 revolver plinking at an old leaf blower I had trashed. .22 was passing through the hard plastic, both sides, with a few stopping on the cylinder and engine cases. I had my .410 Contender with me as it was just a fun outing. I blasted that leaf blower from about 30 feet with a number 7.5 3" load. I have taken squirrel at 25 yards, a rabbit at 17 or so, and birds with this load and number 6 loads. The leaf blower was built of hard, tough plastic and the 7.5 from 30 feet could not penetrate it, just left little dimples. Now, 00 buck might be different, but I'll pass on 7.5s for self defense, I tell ya that! LOL

There are starting to be buckshot rounds available now with powders more appropriate for short barrels, but I'm a show me kinda guy. I'd have to try some penetration tests, maybe chronograph 'em, before I'd trust 'em for defense. I really prefer my 9x19 or my .38 Special, truth be told. .410 is good in a long gun for starting your 8 year old in shotgunning. Actually, I think 28 gauge is superior even for that. I started on an old JC Higgins pump .410.

[rogertc1]

duke thoes are some mighty high priced pistols

[IMTHDUKE]

ArchAngelCD

It always is an amazement to me...that some people mis quote what a post says and assign to the poster what they want to believe it says.

I said...I owned a Bond Arms...as the OP asked if anyone had experience. I said, I now carry one of the two I posted. I did not say...the OP was wrong or should not carry or own a Bond arms...I could care less what a person chooses to own or carry....whatever cranks you tractor. So amazed.

[nonseven]

One day, out of the blue, I threw a clay pigeon 6 feet over my head, aimed my Bond Texas defender with the 2 1/2" 410 barrel loaded with #9 birdshot, pulled the trigger, and pulverized it into 100 pieces. I was surprised and delighted.

Now I'm practicing throwing two in the air, and hitting them with 2 separate shots, cocking the hammer in between. Makes for great fun.

I'm waiting to try the new Federal handgun buckshot loads, and if the velocity is there, I don't think I'd feel completely helpless carrying that little gun so loaded.

[MCgunner]

Some BIG claims for this stuff. I know nothing about it other than I'd wanna see it to believe the numbers.


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128246180

[nonseven]

000 buck Federal 410 handgun loads just hit Midwayusa.com. I just picked up 4 boxes.

[Joe Demko]

A buddy of mine has one of those Cobray derringers. 'Lil b*****d isn't safe to shoot at anything harder than a paper target with .410 shells. Bouncebacks are a real possibility. Believe I'll pass on .410 pistols for self-defense

[SGTB802]

I have to add my 2 cents I own a Bond Arms original snake slayer i carry it as a back up to my colt commander. Let me tell u it is a formable fighting gun loaded appropiately i carry 5 pellet buckshot and feel very comfortable staking my life on it yes it is 2 shots and there are lighter gun but i find that with pratice i can take small game in an emergency or in a survival situation u can use shot for birds 4s for squirells buckshot for bigger game and 45 colts or slugs for more presicion watch bob munden video on utube shooting a bond arms

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally Posted By IMTHDUKE
I bought and sold quickly a Judge....it locked up on me first time to the range. I have owned a derringer, but as was said...too many limitation and too many better guns to carry. I will go with either of these as I go to the asphalt jungle.
Originally Posted By ArchAngelCD
Both those guns you posted are very expensive and not what the OP asked about. Why is there always someone in every thread who feels the need to tell the OP how wrong they are for wanting a gun other than what you think they should have?
Originally Posted By IMTHDUKE
ArchAngelCD

It always is an amazement to me...that some people mis quote what a post says and assign to the poster what they want to believe it says.

I said...I owned a Bond Arms...as the OP asked if anyone had experience. I said, I now carry one of the two I posted. I did not say...the OP was wrong or should not carry or own a Bond arms...I could care less what a person chooses to own or carry....whatever cranks you tractor. So amazed.
IMTHDUKE,
Really, don't be so thin skinned. Also, you post didn't mention Bond Arms by name, you said you owned a Judge and a Derringer. I had no idea from you post what Derringer you had and then sold because, "too many limitation and too many better guns to carry." So tell me, what did I say that was wrong? You did say a Derringer is not the right gun to carry and the two you posted pictures of are. :confused:

[Brian Williams]

I don't like the size of the Judge, I wish I still had the Tracker in 45 Colt I had, It was a K/L sized gun with 5 shots of 45 and it handled well but I sold it to fund some other "IDEA", I was pareing down to 357/38 in revolvers.

[JImbothefiveth]

At ten feet (the range its meant for ... not 10 -yards-), my 2 1/2 chamber Judge will put all 3 pellets from a 000 Winchester buckshot load clean through 4" of pine, and put all 3 in a pattern about 12" across. That's like 3 hits from a 38 special with each pull of the trigger, plenty enough to be lethal, and more than enough to be "very discouraging". It's out of a .410 handgun though. It won't act like a .38.