[P51D]

There have been a couple of recent posts on powder measures, and a lot of people say their Brand X powder measure is "really accurate", or "super precise", or "very consistent", etc., but I don't see many numbers to quantify it.

Consistency is what I'm looking for in a powder measure. For example, "plus or minus 0.1 grain". And I'm not currently getting that out of my Lee Perfect Powder Measure with extruded powders (IMR 4064, IMR 3031, IMR 4198). Out of 20 throws, most will be that good, but usually I'll see one at 0.2 grs one way or the other.:mad: So currently I weigh each throw on on my Rangemaster 750 (a scale which I love) :) . And I always calibrate the scale and zero it frequently. Maybe I'm expecting too much, but I was hoping the Lee would ALWAYS stay withing +/- 0.1 gr.

Anyway,

1. What type of measure are you using?
2. What type of powder?
3. Weight of your typical powder charge?
4. Are you consistently getting throws +/- 0.1 gr or better?
5. If worse than that, +/- how much?

Thanks
P51D

[RandyP]

With my Lee Pro Disk powder measure (adjustable bar or micro-disk) I have been getting what for my loads is more than acceptable, +/- .1 to .15 gr repeatability.

I shoot .380/9mm/.45ACP, using Win 231 = HP-38 powder, indoor target loads, mostly at the low starting point, never over mid range on the load data charts.

I can appreciate that those who load up to the edge of max will need a higher level of powder charge accuracy than I do.

[Afy]

My DPS III is supposedly accurate to .01 grms or .1 grains... as is the 505.
I generally weigh out in grams.

[PO2Hammer]

1 Redding 10X
2 Titegroup, HS-6, Clays
3 4-5 grains
4 With HS-6 and Titegroup, yes, with Clays, no
5 With Clays I seem to get quite a few charges that drop .2 to .3 grains low, very few drop high, and those are usually under +.1 grains.

[RustyFN]

Using the Lee pro auto disk measure with single disk and double disk kit I have never been off more than .1 on the ones that were measured. We will always wonder about the ones we don't measure. From what I hear extruded powders are harder to measure in most powder measures. I have sat down for three hours many times to load 9mm with 4.2 grains of Titegroup and every round I check the powder drop on weighs exactly 4.2 grains. I would try some different powder and see if you have better results.
Rusty

[plinky]

I use an RCBS Uniflow and yeah, it depends on the powder. With the best I get about 1/10 grain total variation. W296/H110, H380 and W748 fall in this group. All are fine ball powders.

Bullseye, Titegroup and W231 are not quite that good but quite usuable and safe as dropped.

H322 is one of the better extruded powders for this measure but it has about 4/10 spread. Most extruded numbers are a bit worse. If I stuck with it, the spread would likely be around one grain. So those I weigh.

Shot the first ball powder though my varmint rifles this past weekend. It was windy so I'm not sure how good they will be but they weren't bad. And the loading was soooo nice.

[P51D]

Thanks to those who have responded so far. Good and useful info for me! Looks like most replies are from handgun reloaders so far. I hope to get into that world soon :D.

Just a few more points:

I try to be as consistent as possible in throwing charges, as I know that the nut behind the handle can be the biggest cause of the inconsistencies ;). I've probably thrown only about 600 charges with this measure, and I've heard they get better with age, as they "break in". I've seen comments that the Lee Perfect Powder Measure will leak some ball powders, but that that ball and short cut powders also apparently behave more consistently in most measures. Any comments on that?

And finally, just to answer my own questions:

1. What type of measure are you using? Lee Perfect Powder Measure
2. What type of powder? IMR 3031, IMR 4198, IMR 4064
3. Weight of your typical powder charge? 30 to 45 grs (.243 and 8 x 57 Mauser)
4. Are you consistently getting throws +/- 0.1 gr or better? Not really.
5. If worse than that, +/- how much? One or two out of 20 throws, +/- 0.2 gr

Doing the math, a 0.4 gr spread (+/- .02 gr) in a 40.0 gr charge is only 1 percent, so maybe my expectations ARE a bit high.

Anyway, I'd really like to hear how your measures are performing.

THANKS!!

P51D

[ranger335v]

"Maybe I'm expecting too much, but I was hoping the Lee would ALWAYS stay withing +/- 0.1 gr."

That's expecting too much from ANY normal powder measure. Dispensing anything by volume and hoping to get a truly precise weight is doomed to disappointment. The Lee Perfect has an excellant reputation for work with coarse powders, better than the other common measures.

Actually, for coarse powders, you are doing VERY well.

[Dean Williams]

The only measures I have are a couple of Lee Auto Disk units. I weigh almost all my rifle charges, except for plinkers. I use the Auto Disk mainly for pistol. I don't know if this info will do you any good, but will add to your survey sample.

Win 231
4.9 gr (45 ACP)
This powder throws +0/-<0.05 gr consistently

IMR4227
18.1 gr (45 Colt)
+0.05/-0.1

H110 (45 Colt)--- I always weigh this stuff, but this is what the measure throws:
22.8 gr
+0.1/-0.3 (that's why I weigh it...)
For a fine powder, it sure doesn't meter/measure well for me in the Lee.

Bullseye, various weights, various guns, 2.8-4.6 gr., always throws less than +/- 0.1.

Unique
9.2 gr
+0/-0.2

I don't use any powder in this measure that is made in a cylindrical shape. It doesn't seem to do that well with them, but Lee makes a double disk kit for it to load some rifle rounds. Weighing IMR 4064 charges thrown from the largest single cavity size in the disk I got weights from 20.8 gr to 20.4 gr for 10 throws. Quite a bit of difference for a small charge. I don't know if it would be magnified by using the double disk setup.

I have more notes for some other pistol powders, but I have a feeling you are interested in rifle stuff, so I'll stop here.

[1SOW]

Re Dean WWilliams: The Lee Auto Disk was designed for ball powders. Win231, Bullseye.

I've been using 4.3grs Win231 for 9mm and the accuracy is virtually right on for my first 1000.

That just leaves variables like 9mm case & bullet length. The Chrono tells the story.

To sum up all the variables of reloading, I'd be curious to hear "HOW DO 10 RDS OF YOUR HANDGUN RELOADS COMPARE ON A CHRONO?" & "WHAT'S THE MAX DEV?"

[Dean Williams]

1SOW:
Re Dean WWilliams: The Lee Auto Disk was designed for ball powders. Win231, Bullseye.

Yes, or maybe not. I believe it was calibrated to Bullseye, which is a flake powder. Anyway, you'll note that I reported very good results with the two powders you mention.

[lgbloader]

I use Uniflows and Dillons for pistol and RCBS Chargemaster combo for extruded powder for rifle.

Right on the money all the time.

I was going to buy the top of the line Harrell a couple of years back and saw no huge difference from my Uniflows so I kept the money. I may still buy a Harrell just because I like it but not because I need it.

LGB

[RonellCooper]

Call me a old school loader but I use a 1010 scale, a spoon and a powder trickler. Thats the way I was taught and I enjoy doing it that way. Most times I'm dead on. Never more than +.1. To answer the questions:

1. A spoon and 1010 scale.
2. IMR 4350, 4064, RE-22, 19.
3. 50+ grains.
4. My spoon is extremely consistent.
5. Never off more than .1.

[andcam]

1. Lee Perfect Powder Measure and RCBS 5-0-5 Scale
2. W231 and BL-C(2)
3. W231: 5.5gr (For 45acp) BL-C(2): 24gr (For 5.56)
4. Yes, from what my scale says.
5. The only powder I've tried in my Powder Measure is ball, which I think is a lot easier to meter than some of the other types.

[R.W.Dale]

worrying about .1 + or - for a rifle charge is a complete waste of energy and in my opinion so is weighing individual charges at all. There so many more important variables in handloading that'll have a much much more pronounced effect on accuracy and pressure than 0.2 grs ever will

To put things in perspective a .2grn variation is only 0.5% of a 40grn charge

That's only half of one percent

[qajaq59]

My Lyman is accurate with most powders, such as RL15. However you have to keep an eye on it if you are using very small loads of Unique. Rubbing a tiny bit of detergent on the outside of the plastic hopper helps a lot though, because it kills the static charges.

[Walkalong]

worrying about .1 + or - for a rifle charge is a complete waste of energy and in my opinion so is weighing individual charges at all. There so many more important variables in handloading that'll have a much much more pronounced effect on accuracy and pressure than 0.2 grs ever willI agree.

[something vague]

I have also been wondering about the same question and have been contemplating buying a RCBS Uniflow. I also own the same measure Lee Perferct and have been having issues with ball powder leaking through the handle drum part and makes operating the measure hard due to binding in the handle. But it seems that these powders throw the most accurate out of this measure. Universal and Unique operate in the measure much smoother but Unique is off by +/- 0.2 gns. in some instances. Not that cool when I'm using it to load 9mm at the upper end of things.

Anyways, I just found a RCBS Uniflow in Uncle Henry's (used products magazine) for $50. Haven't called yet but assume it has the standard size cylinder. Would this measure work well with the powders I spoke of in small calibers such as 9mm, 38spl, and 357mag? Am also eventually going to be using it for 22-250, 300 savage, and 308 win.

[Devon]

I use a Redding 3BR (with the universal and the pistol measuring chambers) with unique and with IMR 4895, both powders measure within .01 after the dispenser is set up. I always stop every 10 rounds and verify the weights by weighing 3 drops. I've found this powder dispenser is very accurate as long as the hopper is over half full. BTW, I do own a Lee PPM and a very old Pacific bushing type measure (both reside in the bottom drawer of my supply cabinet) and neither is as accurate or consistent as the Redding is. The Lee was a huge waste of time, it was never consistent, but I never saw the leaks that I hear so much about.

[something vague]

It seemed as though the leak I had started when I used W296. I used W231 a few times before the W296 and never had that issue. Now both leak a bit but the W296 is much more pronounced!

[P51D]

Again, I appreciate your responses to my post. I'm learning some good things. Devon notes better performance if the hopper is more than half full. That's something I've wondered about, and whether it makes a difference. Thanks for your data point, Devon. And thanks for all the other replies from the rest of you. P51D

[LongRifles, Inc.]

How precise is your powder measure?

Pretty effing precise.

Powder:
RCBS Chargemaster combo

Lyman 1200 DPS

Bullets/cases
Denver Instruments P-114 laboratory grade balance.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/nesikachad/GUN%20PICS/DSC_0096.jpg

I load everything from 22ppc to 416Rigby. Just depends on what I'm doing. The most carefully prepared ammunition I make is for Palma rifles as small variances mean big changes in elevation when shooting puny 155 grain bullets at 1000 yards. Everything counts at this level if you expect to do well.

If we get into the meat of this, so long as a shooter's process is sound, the actual weight becomes a bit immaterial. Before I get blasted for that let me explain. Say my scale is all screwed up and it's off by 2 whole grains. If I've been using this scale for 20 years and getting good results then it makes no difference. The issue will be if you start using it or if I give you my load data and you just assume its going to be safe in your gun. If I'm 2 grains low then no worries, but if I'm off on the high side then your liable to have a "chernobyl" incident. Especially if your scale is off on the high side too.

This would be why you ALWAYS start conservatively with any load data.

[LongRifles, Inc.]

worrying about .1 + or - for a rifle charge is a complete waste of energy and in my opinion so is weighing individual charges at all. There so many more important variables in handloading that'll have a much much more pronounced effect on accuracy and pressure than 0.2 grs ever will

To put things in perspective a .2grn variation is only 0.5% of a 40grn charge

That's only half of one percent


In benchrest and 90% of shooting applications you'd be pretty accurate with this statement.

It'll eat you alive though the further you try to reach out.

An example is Palma. Palma for those who don't know is an international competitive event where you have a 308 loaded with 155 grain bullets and you sling em out to 800, 900, and 1000 yards using iron sights. I was an armorer for the US team in 2003.

A safe and usable powder charge in Palma is 45/46 grains of Varget. Say I have a +/- .2 grain variance in my loads. Run that through your ballistic software once and see what the elevation change is at 1000 yards.

Now do the same thing at 200 yards. Not nearly as bad is it?

The longer you plan to shoot the more critical this becomes. Everything becomes more critical. Better start weighing bullets and taking some serious looks at primers too.

Primers: Probably the coolest/most novel way I've seen primers evaluated is with a gun. A friend built a rifle that shoots pellets with primers. He velocity tests the pellets. The most consistent batch wins. Seems to work.

[Walkalong]

Yea, anytime you get into really long range stuff, everything is critical.

[1858]

I chronographed some .300 Win Mag loads a few weeks ago and the average velocity was right around 2853 fps. That was for a 208gr A-MAX, W-W Super cases, CCI 250 primers and 71.6gr of Reloder 22. Two weeks ago I added 0.1gr to that load and the average velocity of those loads was 2886 fps under very similar atmospheric conditions. That difference in velocity (33 fps) equates to about 1.5" less drop at 600 yards so it's up to me to decide if that's significant.

:)

[ATAShooter]

My Measures ???

Well, if I am loading Bang-bang shoot-em-up ammo, I do a volume measure ( Lee disc or Perfect powder measure ). If I am going presision rifle, then a beam scale and a trickler.

[meanmotorscooter]

Using the Lee pro auto disk measure with single disk and double disk kit I have never been off more than .1 on the ones that were measured. We will always wonder about the ones we don't measure. From what I hear extruded powders are harder to measure in most powder measures. I have sat down for three hours many times to load 9mm with 4.2 grains of Titegroup and every round I check the powder drop on weighs exactly 4.2 grains. I would try some different powder and see if you have better results.
Rusty

Could you please explain how you achieved 4.2 grains of Titegroup. I don't have the double disk setup but for me the .37 hole throws 3.9 grains and the .40 hole throws 4.4. I would like to get 4.2-4.3. I have tried the adjustable charge bar and about every 4 pull I get no powder in the case. Does anyone else have this problem with the adjustable charge bar? Can someone explain to me how to get 4.2-4.3 grains of Titegroup with the Lee Pro Auto Disk?

[JJE]

1. What measure are you using? RCBS Uniflow
2. What type of powder? W231, 2400, Reloder 7 (all "good-metering" powders)
3. Weight of your typical powder charge? W231: 3-5 gr 2400: 9-15 gr Re7: 29-31.5 gr
4. Are you consistently getting throws +/- 0.1 gr or better? Probably not. For handgun, I've decided there's no point trying to work up loads in 0.1 gr intervals because when it comes time to make them in "bulk" (using a single-stage press but without weighing each charge) they are going to vary as much as 0.1, so a 3.0 gr load might actually be 2.9 or 3.1 grains. Most of my handgun loads are light target loads so it doesn't really matter, since my shooting errors mask any accuracy errors resulting from a 0.1 gr difference in charges, and I'm not using max loads where an extra 0.1 gr is going to over-pressure the gun. For rifle and hunting handgun, my loads are max or close to max, so I weigh each charge (throw a light load on the Uniflow, then bring it up to spec with a trickler).

5. If worse than that, +/- how much? For handgun, I weight every 10 rounds or so, just because I'm paranoid, and they probably never vary more than about 0.1 gr with the powders I use.

[Bart B.]

Considering that Sierra Bullets uses metered powder charges (about 3/10ths spread) to test fire their 30 caliber bullets and their best MatchKings get 10-shot groups in the ones (under .2 MOA); precise charge weight ain't all that important.

I'm convinced stool shooters (those good folks also called bench resters) could almost use a tea spoon to measure powder charges and still shoot one holers up through 200 yards. It's often too windy at their shoots to weigh charges and besides it takes too much time.

Check your ballistic tables for down range bullet drop at different muzzle velocities. When I first did this, I was a bit awed by the fact that at 100 yards with a .308 Win., a 50 fps spread in muzzle velocity typically would cause only 1/10th inch vertical shot stringing. 'Course at 1000 yards, it would be about 20 inches. Which means 1/10th MOA at short range and 2 whole MOA's at a very long range.

I helped develop loads for Sierra's 30 caliber 155-gr. Palma bullet back in 1991. We settled on IMR4895 and the loading crew put out some 200 thousand rounds in new Winchester cases primed with Federal 210M's. Charge weight spread was about 3/10ths of a grain from the powder measure atop the Dillon 1050 progressive used for charging and bullet seating. Random accuracy tests at 600 yards had 20 shot group about 3 inches. Same accuracy was in many other rifles from around the world when that bullet was used for the first time in competition. That ammo would probably shoot 1/4th inch or better at 100 yards.