[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Considering I can get 2 Express' ($280+$280=$560) for less than the cost of one Wingmaster ($630)-- I'm having a hard time swallowing the Wingmaster is "that" much better----just seems very overpriced to me.

[rbernie]

The Wingmaster is a lot nicer. However, I buy 'em used for $300-$400 so the price difference isn't as great.

[Virginian]

Judging "worth" of any shotgun is strictly an individual thing. If it is worth it to you, then it is worth it.
Unlike the $79 values for $19.99 on TV (+S&H), and they will give you a second one free (you just pay S&H one more time).
I think the value of SxSs has gone nuts. It benefitted me because I recently sold off all mine but one, but I still think it's nuts.
Most cars cost more than my first house - some non-exocitic cars cost more than my second house. But hey, they've shipped almost all the good jobs to Asia! Is it any wonder there is a problem?!

[Floppy_D]

What criteria makes your decision? If dead nuts reliability is the only thing you care about, then yeah, it's a waste. If you dig the aesthetics of shotguns, the Express is no slouch, but the Wingmaster is beautiful. I bought a 1970 Wingmaster in fantastic shape, 3 or 4 months ago for $250, and I'm happy. Pick the two up in a gunshop, feel the action, and make a call. They obviously sell well enough to justify theprice difference to some folks. Shop used, as rbernie mentioned?

[Geno]

My Wingmaster has the nicer wood, a smoother action, and a prettier finish. There is the cost. They are worth it if you have the $$$. That's all. The Express is extraordinary quality, and I also have one of those for our daughter. Choose your poisen.

Doc2005

[vicdotcom]

You have two same model cars. One has rims, premium tires, cold ac, power windows, and a few little extras under the hood. Price justification is subjectice.

[Liberty1776]

not better, just purtier...

[Geno]

Let me clarify too, that I only take my Wingmaster pheasant hunting. When I hit the brush, I take the Express.

So, for me, I "need" both. Of course, I bought the Wingmaster first. :evil: Then, I needed the Express so I wouldn't destroy my beautiful shotgun that my wife agreed to let me get if I would hunt pheasants for her supper.

Trust me, I'm as-slick-as my Wingmaster's action! :cool:

Geno

[earlthegoat2]

If your looking for a good value for a beautiful finish think Browning BPS. The Wingmaster is still quite a bit nicer though it is 200 more.

[jbkebert]

If you don't mind used. I was in a shop the other day that had 5 or 6 ranging in price from $275-340. All but one was in 12ga the other a 20ga. The vent rib model ran closer to the 340 range but all were in pretty good shape. That seems to be about the going price range around here.

[MCgunner]

I'm really not into looks. I care about function. Salt marsh hunting has ruinned the looks of a couple of my guns already. I take a little better care of 'em now days, but the environment is not conducive to keeping walnut and bluing very nice. I've been waxing my 1400 and babying it, but I can scratch my camo Mossberg's finish and not lose sleep over it. Neither gun is expensive, just that I like to keep bluing and wood looking nice. When the stock is plastic, and the finish is camo, it's a lot easier to bang around and not feel guilty and, well, the camo finish is a LOT more rugged.

I reckon it's an individual thing, but that's MY individual take on it. If I had a BPS, it'd be a camo model with plastic stocks. :D The Mossberg just seems a little more reasonable in the roll, though, considering the sticker price and it's a strong gun going on 20 years old and still knockin' down ducks. I'm sure it'll knock down ducks for future grandkids, I mean, if they can legally own and use guns by then, but that's a different subject.

So, anyway, obviously, I think the Wingmaster is a waste of good money, but that's just me. I had one a long time ago. It was a real good shootin' gun, but being a lefty, I prefer the ergos of the Mossberg or Browning guns. I'm sorta glad I sold it before the salt marsh took its toll, anyway. I sold it in college when I needed money (always needed money) and when I got out and got a good job, I started waterfowling again. Last I heard, the room mate I sold that Wingmaster to is still hunting with it and that gun was new in the late 50s/early 60s sometime or another. If you really want one, find a used one to your liking. It takes a lot to wear one out. :D

[JohnBT]

I bought an Express in 1993 for duck hunting - saltwater, boats, crude blinds brushed with sappy cedar, sleet, snow, frozen mud, hikes in the dark through thick brush, tall reeds and forest, etc.

I had nicer shotguns and needed a beater.

I've often wished I'd bought a Wingmaster, new or used. A beat up Wingmaster is still going to look and feel better to me than a beat up Express. Not a big deal, but still a consideration. A scratched Wingmaster shows walnut, not cheap old generic hardwood. I touch up the Express with shoe polish. :)

Now I shoot a Winchester SX-2 Waterfowl I bought used and keep the Express for a backup or loaner. It still works.

I've hunted with guys using old Belgian Browning A-5s and one guy with an old Remington 1100 with gold inlays on the receiver that he's used hard for 30 years or so. They're all well used, but still nice shotguns.

Is a Wingmaster worth it? Maybe. The Express will work.

John

[Virginian]

I got my first gun selling Christmas cards. Right before my Dad died. Some of you may remember the ads with Mickey Mantle. Except for one my Mother bought me, I have bought all my guns in the intervening 50 years. I have made it a point to take care of all of them.
The top gun below is a 1966 3" model that is rather "new" to me. It wears the original stock from the '63 2-3/4" gun below it, and the '63 has it's stock. I prefer the Pachmyr pad. The bottom gun was my primary duck gun for 25 years. It has gotten muddy, been from Pamilico Sound in North Carolina to Manitoba, Canada, and been dropped in the sometimes salt water :barf: , and been equipped with a 3" chambered 'steel' barrel and had everything shot thru it, and it has killed a few truckloads of ducks and geese. It did get cleaned, and has never been reblued or refinished in any way.
All you have to remember is, when you're going down, make sure you're on the bottom. :eek: This also works fairly well for motorcycles (when you're young), but it is pretty tough on you. :(

[MAKster]

Unless money is not an issue, buying a new Wingmaster makes no sense. Why pay over $600 for a Wingmaster when you can buy a new Express is around $260.

[MCgunner]

All you have to remember is, when you're going down, make sure you're on the bottom. This also works fairly well for motorcycles (when you're young), but it is pretty tough on you.


Not me, every time I've crashed a motorcycle, more times than I can remember, I've always instinctively gotten away and tucked and rolled, a couple of crashes well over 100 mph without major injury. Race leathers and a good helmet helped. :D

Now, when I slip with the shotgun, get tangled up in the mud, I almost always instinctively put the butt end down as a brace and the gun goes in the mud and water. :banghead: Plastic stocks do help. I HATE even hardwood getting dunked.

I have a friend with a crusty, rusty 1100. He dropped it out of the boat into the bay. They fished it out, but by the time he got home, it was pitted.

No, I ain't buyin' no Pirazzi for duck hunting. Wood and blued steel is pretty, but camo and plastic works better for me. I'm old, but young at heart. I can accept a little change. I never ever thought of a pump gun as anything more than a tool, though. Side by Sides, even O/Us are what I look at and admire for the art. A pump is just a pump, don't really care how much gold is on it. Same for autos.

[JohnBT]

:) The Mick says...

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/sports/baseball/images/memorabilia/mantle-youthsales.JPG

[riverdog]

Unless money is not an issue, buying a new Wingmaster makes no sense. Why pay over $600 for a Wingmaster when you can buy a new Express is around $260.Because the Wingmaster is a "nicer" gun. All my 870's are Wingmasters; three of them are previously owned, they have very smooth actions and came with very nice wood.

[MCgunner]

You don't see that sort of thing anymore, eh? :D I remember when the First National Bank in Freeport used to have a big ad on the sign out front offering a shotgun if you deposited 10 grand or whatever it was for a year. Of course, it didn't say how much intrest you gave up. LOL I used to think, in my ignorant youth, that I wished I had 10 grand to deposit to buy that shotgun. Hell, if I'd had 10 grand, I coulda bought the shotgun and still earned 5 percent on what was left. I think it was about a 130 dollar 1100 Remington at the time. LOL But, for some reason, that didn't occur to me.

Because the Wingmaster is a "nicer" gun. All my 870's are Wingmasters; three of them are previously owned, they have very smooth actions and came with very nice wood.

It's all in what you like, but if I wanna be ostentatious, I'll buy at LEAST a Citori or Orion and maybe have it engraved. A nice Superposed would be nice. 870? Workin' man's gun, a tool, not art. That's just me, though, so if it makes you happy, go for it. I really like side by sides, but I can't afford a really nice one. Citoris are affordable if I was to save up for a while. I'm not an ostentatious kinda guy, though. I'm about hunting, not really about the tool to do it if it does the job, and my Mossberg works better for me than any Remington with a crossbolt safety, being a lefty. I do appreciate a nice gun, though, just that I don't care to spend the extra money for frills. That express will smooth up with use, my 500 has, almost pumps itself after 20 years.

I remember my uncle's M37 featherweight 16 gauge. Now, THAT was a smooth pumpin' shotgun! :D I had my Wingmaster at the time and there was just no comparison to that Ithaca. That thing was slick!

[The Deer Hunter]

Unless money is not an issue, buying a new Wingmaster makes no sense. Why pay over $600 for a Wingmaster when you can buy a new Express is around $260.

I bought my 870 Wingmaster in like new condition for $450. You can find used Wingmasters for about the price of a new express gun. The "bead blasted blue" on the express lines a bit of a joke, but if it's all you can afford it's still a solid shotgun.

My father gave me a 20GA 1100 express. I couldn't stand the finish, so I bought a small duracoat kit and painted it flat black. The duracoat did a very good job and it filled all of the small pits leaving me with a handsome, slick shotgun.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

It you want a very nice shotgun it is.

[rbernie]

I have to admit that I have a thing for the milled groove on the top of the Wingmaster receiver. The Express receiver top is just UGLY.

For a shotgun that won't be used in saltwater - I aesthetically prefer the Wingmaster enough to pay the difference (used).

[Virginian]

That was it JohnBT !
Oops. I swear I forgot until I saw the line about Duracoat. When I used to hunt around salt water I did paint the blued metal satin black. Later removed with laquer thinner. And I did put some boiled linseed oil on the raw wood under the pad and at the receiver.
A pretty gun shoots better for me. :D Kinda like a pretty woman is... never mind. :evil:

[MAKster]

Those who said they can buy a used Wingmaster for a good price have proven my point. You can buy a new Express or a used Wingmaster with fixed choke for $250-$300, so buying a new Wingmaster for $625 makes no sense. I think the market has proven this to be true. Remington probably sells 30 Expresses for every one Wingmaster.

[Geno]

A picture is worth a 1000 words, gentlemen.

Geno (Formerly Doc2005)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4042/870s.jpg
By doc2005 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/doc2005), shot with hp photosmart 733 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=hp+photosmart+733&make=Hewlett-Packard) at 2009-03-13

[jmr40]

I'm a big fan of the 870 and like the Wingmaster a litttle better. It is probably just me but I do not care at all for anything with impressed checkering so the older models are out for me. I have a couple of late 80's Wingmasters with real checkering as well as a couple of Express models with synthetic stocks that I like quite well.

Even though I like them, if I had to chose between a $650 Wingmaster and a $250 Express I would take my chances on the Express. Or, spend a little more and get an autoloader.

I would like for Remington to offer something with a little better quality than the Express with out some of the bells and whistles that would sell for around $350-$400

[MCgunner]

The "real checkering" on most low end stuff like the Wingmaster is machine cut. It's a far cry from fine hand cut checkering. My old Sarasqueta double had hand cut checkering, still has it, but it's been pretty well ruined by hard use. It was beautiful, though, when new.

Machine cut checkering is by far and away better than that "impressed" checkering they used to do, though, which wasn't impressive at all, LOL. My Winchester auto has machine cut checkering and it's the "Ranger", Winchester's version of the Express. It also has a very deep, shiny bluing, not the rough dull finish of the Express. The stock is hardwood, but ain't ugly to my eye, looks pretty nice considering the gun set me back $255 new in 1988. The fit of the butt stock could be a little more flush with the metal. I suppose I could find some walnut stocks for it, maybe, perhaps at Numrich Arms, but it's fine the way it is.

[alaskanativeson]

Since my Wingmaster was $140 on Gunbroker just a few months ago, I'd say it was worth it. Since I'm not as enamored of it as I thought I would be, I'm going to stick with my Mossy and put the Wingmaster up for sale. Since I am guaranteed to get more that I paid for it, I'd say it was worth it.

As for the OP, it's worth it if it you decide you like the finish. If reliability is all that matters, the Express works great.

[Brian Dale]

My Wingmaster was also $140, but that was a couple of years ago. Made in 1956, it's as slick as buttered glass. They're out there and they last a long time.

Wingmasters are prettier, and their looks don't interfere with their mechanical function. With some friends who spend plenty of money on art, and a couple of friends who earn their living by making art, I'll tell you that it's not wrong to pay for aesthetics.

You're the judge of what you'd prefer to pay for. :)

[MCgunner]

As I recall, my old Wingmaster had the corn cob fore end. The newer checkered ones are prettier to look at IMHO. I also had a plain barrel, no rib. It was a 20 gauge, light gun, quick to the shoulder. It was a 2 3/4" chamber, but I killed a lot of ducks with it using number 5 lead shot 2 3/4" magnum loads. This was WAY before steel shot laws.

[devilc]

Wingmasters are nice guns.
They can be had used on Gun Broker for under $200 if you don't mind doing some refinishing.
I picked up a Wingmaster receiver only for $50 since it had a broken ejector spring!

[MCgunner]

One thing, I really do prefer modern guns with interchangeable chokes. A 40 year old Wingmaster with a full choke would be pretty worthless to me. In that case, I'd rather get the new Express. A new barrel will run the price up on that used shotgun. I also like ribs on guns, just me, but I like 'em. Gives my eye a nice flat plane to look down. Also, any gun I buy will HAVE to, MANDATORY, not an option, be steel shot compatible.

[Lone Star]

I bought the Wingmaster, new. I had to scrimp on other things for awhile, but I love pretty guns. Also figured that the internals might work better.

I seldom find really nice used Wingmasters here. People tend to keep them, I guess.

Lone Star

[gotmine]

I've two wingmasters..12-28"mod and 20-w/30"full and 28"mod barrels. They fit me and are great shooters.... I love them but not in the marsh. The marsh gets the trusty old N/S model 12-32"full or 1100 30"full. When falling I roll and hold up the gun because I still have the memory of getting my ears boxed for giving guns a dunking when doing the ducks.

[MCgunner]

Full choke doesn't work well for me with steel shot. Modified does better in all my guns. Full leaves all sorts of holes in the patterns. Actually, I often chose I/C for hunting over deeks, especially if it's foggy.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Just picked up a laminated Express for $279.99.

Two things of note:

1. It came with a full set of 3 choke tubes.

2. It also came with a green fiber optic front sight/bead.

Seems the value of the Express is increasing even more with those 2 additions.

[WutUpGeez]

I got a brand new, unfired 1985 wingmaster with 3 removable chokes, 28" vent ribbed barrel(with 2 bead sites). Gorgeous wood(with the semi gloss finish).

$400 out the door...

If you can find a REALLY nice one between $300-$400...I'd say get the wingmaster. Of course if money isn't an issue, I also say get the wingmaster!

The express guns are really nice...I know a guy who can debur them and give them a nice, durable parked finish for under $120.

[throdgrain]

It just depends what you want.

I have a 1976 Wingmaster with a fixed choke, so I bought another shorter barrel with a multi-choke, no problermo :D

[Virginian]

A guy once asked, whay is a divorce so expensive?
Because it is worth it. I feel the same about a Wingmaster. You get whatever you like. (I sure wish someone would take my ex-wife.)

[earlthegoat2]

Compared to a BPS it is not. Compared to a Express it also it not. Get a used Wingmaster. Those are worth it.

[rbernie]

Get a used Wingmaster. Those are worth it.
Word. :)

[Dave McCracken]

Yes.

The Expresses are good shotguns.

The Wingmasters are great shotguns.

[hometheaterman]

If it was me I would for sure pay the extra for the Wingmaster. No doubt about it. I'm sure King will be on here telling me how much I talk bad about the expresses shortly and that his is great even though it has problems with "certain ammo".

[jlv08]

I found a used Wingmaster at a shop here in Grafton ,VA. on RTE. 17 for 175.00.

It was an early fifties model with a 28" Modified barrel and decent walnut utilitarian grade furniture in like new condition

I was told that it came out of an estate and the person pricing the gun did not consider its value obviously.

I bought it and sold it to a friend who made an offer I could not refuse and he added it to his collection and does not iintend to shoot it.

It was a very nice gun and I would not want to take a nice gun like that in the woods.

That being said, if you beat the bushes you can find a Wingmaster at a great price and will be in shotgun nirvana.

I now ,for my needs, use NEF Pardner Pumps in 12 and 20 gauge and they are my field guns and very similar to the 870 but very different as well.

I am not suggesting that you consider a Pardner over a Wingmaster but will humbly ask that you compare it to an Express model.

I did and the Pardner came home.

The Wingmaster is the gold standard in pumps that is still made today as well as the Express.

I would have a Wingmaster over the Express for bling if I was into such things as bling.

I am not so I chose the Pardner over the Express for utility and haven't batted an eye.

If its a Remington you want, I suggest the Wingmaster. They can be found for reasonable money and are very nice pump shotguns that will go on like the Eveready Bunny....