Winchester Ranger 38+P+


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Thaddeus Jones
March 13, 2009, 11:42 AM
I was perusing the latest Winchester ammunition brochure yesterday, and came across the Ranger 38+P+ load.

Winchester states in the brochure that the 38+P+ 110 grain bullet, gets 1155 FPS and 326 FT LBS at the muzzle of a 4" barrel.

Is this a replication of the old "Treasury Load"?

Would you shoot this in a good conditioned model 10 or 64, or only use it in a 357 revolver? TJ

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smokemaker
March 13, 2009, 01:07 PM
I still have a box of those left. I was told they are the old treasury load. My DW 709 handles them fine, and shoots them good. They're a good bit faster from a 6" barrel too. Closer to 1300fps. The small frame Dan Wesson cylinder is the same size as a model 10, so I would shoot them out of a K frame S&W.

SaxonPig
March 13, 2009, 01:08 PM
The 110 +P+ load that I recall was 1300 FPS. Sold only through LEO distributors and marked "Law Enforcement Only."

IMO this was a pretty warm load. I went to 1400 FPS with a 110 measured from a 4" M10 and while I felt it was not unsafe in my gun, it was very hot. Point of aim was so far off that the load was useless with fixed sights. Shot way low.

Thaddeus Jones
March 14, 2009, 08:31 PM
SaxonPig would you run this load in a K-frame 38?

I don't mean exclusively, but simply to dial in the load and use for carry.

Or would you only use it in K-frame magnums? Thanks, I appreciate your expertise. TJ

SaxonPig
March 14, 2009, 11:41 PM
I do not believe a 110/1100 load would exceed the maximum allowable pressure for the 38 Special. Generally, ANY factory 38 Special load will be fine in a K frame S&W. Nobody would sell ammo that was risky in a quality made gun.

GRIZ22
March 15, 2009, 02:26 AM
Is this a replication of the old "Treasury Load"?


Just about.

Would you shoot this in a good conditioned model 10 or 64, or only use it in a 357 revolver? TJ

I used to carry treasury loads in a 2" M64. I would say it's safe but will beat your revolver up if it's used a lot. My current attitude is only to use +P+ in a 357.

sidheshooter
March 15, 2009, 03:07 AM
For whatever it is worth, I used to shoot a lot of +P+ corbon 158 LSWCHP in a 4" model 64, and it just ate them up in grand fashion.

Massad Ayoob once told me (in so many words) don't sweat it in a newer model 64.

One might get more gas cutting with the lighter 110 ranger, but it couldn't be any worse than 110 .357s in the same frame 65, I'd think.

Speaking of +P+ use in .357 guns, is there any reason someone (a civilian) would want to use a treasury load when there are 110 gr. loadings more readily available in .357 at or beyond treasury velocity? Just curious...

SaxonPig
March 15, 2009, 10:27 AM
If I have a 357 revolver why would I load it with 38 ammo?

IMO it's recoil that pounds guns not velocity and the 110 load recoils less than those with heavier bullets (Newton's Third Law, you know) so I doubt a high velocity load with light bullets will excessively wear a good gun like a S&W. Even if it was hard on the gun, it would take tens of thousands of rounds to see it and nobody shoots that much.

Bubba613
March 15, 2009, 11:32 AM
I don't see the point in 110gr loads. Someone likes it, have at it.
I like heavier bullets. In my Model 19 I carry Win Silvertips, I think 145gr. They seem to work pretty well.
In my snub it's Speer GD SB 135gr.
I want to find a good load for my Model 10. If I could find another box of LHP +P that would work pretty well.

SaxonPig
March 15, 2009, 12:36 PM
I don't care for the 110s myself. Played with them for a while but prefer the 125 JHP loaded to around 1,100 FPS from a 4" revolver. Some cop agencies liked the idea of the fast 110 because of very low risk of shooting through walls or suspects and hitting innocent bystanders.

novaDAK
March 15, 2009, 08:38 PM
In my .357mag (for SD use) I carry Federal 147gr +P+ .38s. In my .38spl revolver I carry Federal 158gr SWC-HP +P Nyclads. As a reload for both, I carry 125gr Gold Dots loaded to about 1000fps (4" revolver) in .38spl, so I can use the same speed strips when I carry either gun, and the bullet shape is easier to load into the cylinder.

Woods carry I use my 158gr .357mag loaded hot.

Blue Brick
March 15, 2009, 10:19 PM
Winchester X38SPD

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