Please, God, Make It Stop!


PDA






Phydeaux642
March 14, 2009, 10:05 PM
My frustration has been building for a while now and I today I'm just so irritated that, if I didn't live in a quiet neighborhood, I would probably let loose with one of those primal screams.

I got back into shooting some time back because I wanted to learn. I wanted to learn how to shoot better. I wanted to learn about different types of firearms. I wanted to learn about gun maintenance and repair. I wanted to learn about concealed carry. I wanted to read about other people's experiences and learn from them. In other words, I wanted to immerse myself into the sport of shooting and learn all that I could. When I do this with any interst of mine it usually ends up being a life long interest. I have enjoyed the journey thus far and have learned a lot here on THR, the interweb and talking to others in the sport. The people that truly love the sport are fun to talk with and are a plethora of great information.

I have spent my time in the past buying different firearms and enjoyed every minute of it. I've come to a point where I have much of what I want in that respect. I still look but rarely find anything that I just have to have. Much of that has to do with all of the panic buying. In light of this I have thought about reloading and am at a place where I think I am ready to learn this skill. Unfortunately, I may not get to do this anytime soon and this is the source of my frustration.

The panic buying has infiltrated every aspect of the sport and I have had enough. There are few, if any, good deals on guns today. Trying to find ammo reminds me of the Beannie Baby craze where people were fighting in the stores for their precious find (no, I didn't buy Beannie Babies). And, as I have found, reloading components are as bad, if not worse, than trying to find ammo. They are on the shelf for a few hours at the most, sometimes only a few minutes.

A lot of folks say, "It's a good deal that we have all of these new gun owners. It's good for our rights. We need everyone we can get." Well, I'm not buying it. I will welcome every new shooter that got into the sport for the right reasons. I don't know if I can welcome those that got into it because someone where they work told them they need a gun before they are banned. I sure can't welcome those that got into the sport in order to stock up on guns, ammo and reloading components hoping to make a profit if a ban of any sort is put in place. A lot of these people will never shoot their guns more than one time, if at all. I can't imagine selling any of my guns or ammo to take advantage of a bad situation. I really hope I am never put into a position where I even have to consider selling any of them.

On top of all of this, I think the panic buying makes those in the sport look bad. I think it's crazy, so, I can barely imagine what others outside the sport might think. It's almost as if people are giving in to the notion of an inevitable ban by taking part in the craziness.

Maybe I'm wrong and am just missing out on something.

I think I'll go work an my bicycle for awhile. Surely, I can still get parts for that.

If you enjoyed reading about "Please, God, Make It Stop!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
LightningJoe
March 14, 2009, 10:30 PM
Wow. Calm down. If this is your biggest problem, you're really blessed.

camslam
March 14, 2009, 10:33 PM
A lot of folks say, "It's a good deal that we have all of these new gun owners. It's good for our rights. We need everyone we can get." Well, I'm not buying it.

I'm going to have to disagree. Personally I don't care what a person's motivations are for purchasing a gun, as long as they are legal. Also, it really is going to be a numbers game down the road.

The more people we have that own guns the better.

I guarantee that old Obama hasn't been on the gun control express lately because of the sheer volume of guns, ammo, reloading supplies, and anything else related to guns that has been sold in the last 4 to 5 months.


The panic buying has infiltrated every aspect of the sport and I have had enough.

Isn't this human nature? Most people react instead of prepare for things. The writing was on the wall for a good year before Obama got into office, that is why my brother and I both got our "black rifles" last summer before the price jumped. I also got a WHOLE LOT of ammo at the lowest price it has been for a year, and plenty of magazines and other gun related items we wanted before the "panic buying" set in.

I'm not trying to rub it in, and I will wait eagerly for the return of decent prices, but this is what happens when demand is up.

Titan6
March 14, 2009, 10:38 PM
I don't think most people have thought of prayer. I do think beseeching your god is a fine idea but probably won't net the result you are looking for; it rarely does when you do it for selfish reasons.

Bearhands
March 14, 2009, 10:39 PM
I have actually had the notion that the public has been arming themselves in the event they should HAVE to use their second amendment rights for the reason it was written. The more folks that buy guns are more likely to fight for the right to keep them, hopefully in a peaceful way.

Sixtigers
March 14, 2009, 10:41 PM
I think CamSlam hit it on the head. I understand your frustration, but more legal gun owners is always going to be good for us.

This too, shall pass. Many people are predicting much second-hand ammo on the market in the coming years, and possibly great deals on firearms as those who "panicked" sell off their surplus. Think about those good times to come!

f4t9r
March 14, 2009, 10:41 PM
We will see what happens in the future. Lots of guns will be for sale or prices will go even higher. It has been frustrating to the people who have seen the prices jump way up or the ones that have always gone to the gun show
only to find it so packed you can hardly move.
Stay tuned to see what happens next !!!!

Phydeaux642
March 14, 2009, 10:42 PM
Wow. Calm down. If this is your biggest problem, you're really blessed.


No, not my biggest problem. It's just the latest straw.

Isn't this human nature? Most people react instead of prepare for things. The writing was on the wall for a good year before Obama got into office, that is why my brother and I both got our "black rifles" last summer before the price jumped. I also got a WHOLE LOT of ammo at the lowest price it has been for a year, and plenty of magazines and other gun related items we wanted before the "panic buying" set in.

I'm not trying to rub it in, and I will wait eagerly for the return of decent prices, but this is what happens when demand is up.

True. I prepared as much as my finances would allow so I wouldn't have to take part in the panic. And, up to this point I haven't taken part in the panic.

I don't think most people have thought of prayer. I do think beseeching your god is a fine idea but probably won't net the result you are looking for; it rarely does when you do it for selfish reasons.

Not really a prayer so much as that primal scream. At least I'm not raising up a prayer asking for a Lear Jet.

catspa
March 14, 2009, 10:51 PM
Easy, bud.

It's cyclical. People do funny things when they're scared, and often don't make good decisions. But you're sitting pretty well, seems to me.

You're not afraid of some scumbag kicking in your door tonight and raping your wife after he stabs you in front of her. Me neither. Some men might be, but you and I have already been prudent enough to get some guns and learn to use them.

You don't have to eat dry beans and rice tonight because you're desperately searching for any gun you can buy with the grocery money. Me neither. Some men might have to, but you and I have already been prudent enough to get some guns and learn to use them.

You got a pistol handy? Me, there's one on the desk right now. Any time I want, I can pick it up and look it over, turn it to the light, admire the skill of the maker in fitting all those itty bitty parts together into a useful tool - it calms my mind. I can marvel how this machine enables me to chamber a round and send it in any necessary direction for less than 20 cents. Some men cannot do this, but you and I have already been prudent enough to get some guns and learn to use them.

So cheer up, my friend, you and I can count our blessings together. And I just saw a Lyman 310 tool on Peebay.

Parker

model of 1905
March 14, 2009, 10:56 PM
If they can raise the tax on cigarettes 10.00 a carton to help pay for the stimulus, what do you think is coming next. (That takes effect 4/01/2009).
I'm stocking up on smokes and ammo and non-perishables. If that bothers you, well, sorry. If the SHTF and the economy turns into a barter/trade scenario you...
1) better have something to barter/trade
2) have something to protect what you have to barter/trade.

Tinpig
March 14, 2009, 10:56 PM
I agree with Phydeaux.

Those "in the know" say Obama's election will create a shortage of guns and ammo.
People buy guns and ammo in a panic........
thus creating a percieved shortage of guns and ammo.

Perfect examples of the sheeple mentality and the self-fulfilling phrophecy.

Tinpig

rbernie
March 14, 2009, 10:57 PM
There are few, if any, good deals on guns today. A month ago, I bought a Springfield MilSpec for $350. That was a stinkin' good deal. Last weekend, I bought a Remington 11 (Browning Auto5 clone) in 20ga for $195. That was a true find. Today, I bought an uber-clean HiStandard Sentinel Imperial 22LR 9 shot revolver for $175. That was a passable deal.

(And, yes - I am selling other guns to finance these. I am not made of cash...)

My point is that there are PLENTY of deals out there - lots of fun and interesting guns to be experienced. All you have to do is go out and find 'em.

Of course, if all you're looking for are ARs and AKs - yes, you'll find few deals left.

Phydeaux642
March 14, 2009, 11:06 PM
No, the deals I've been looking for are for wheelguns. I used to find smokin' deals. Now everything is much higher than even six months ago and nobody is willing to deal (at least in my area). I had a guy at a shop tell me tonight that there was no way he would come down on any price of any used gun. Like I said, I can deal with that at the moment. It's the other stuff that has me on the outs.

Prince Yamato
March 14, 2009, 11:08 PM
I'll side with you; I'm sick of the panic buying crap too. Good deals can be found on certain guns but not on more mainstream AWs, like the AK and AR. Ammo prices are through the roof as well. I call the ammo price increase "the second wave." During the first wave, everyone panic bought AWs, a couple months later they went, "oh, duh, I need ammo" and now they're buying all the ammo.

It's more than just the "waited too long crowd" that's bumping up prices. It's many dealers as well who, hoping to get extra profit, are telling everyone that, "soon x,y, and z will all be illegal!"

To compound matters, many gun owners (or at least a portion of this forum) like to retort, "that's capitalism." I contest that however, as I feel we've moved beyond mere capitalism and are now in the profiteering stages. Capitalism is fine, profiteering is morally wrong. There's also matters of gluttony and greed to be dealt with.

MountainBear
March 14, 2009, 11:08 PM
Wow. Calm down. If this is your biggest problem, you're really blessed.

You know man, if no one else is going to call you on this, I will. This is the second thread of this type where you have been borderline rude telling people that their frustrations with the gun hoarders are unreasonable.

If you people have the right to hoard ammo for the next zombie apocalypse, we have the right to be frustrated with you over it. So you calm down.

The more people we have that own guns the better.

That is definately a true statement, but how many people are going to get into shooting, buy a gun, then realize they can't find ammo, get frustrated and quit. Yeah, we all may find some killer gun deals, but we'll also have a bunch of disenfranchised former gun owners who no longer have a personal stake in protecting our 2nd ammendment rights.

camslam
March 14, 2009, 11:17 PM
how many people are going to get into shooting, buy a gun, then realize they can't find ammo, get frustrated and quit.

Not very many if you ask me. Few people buy guns for the novelty of owning them. Many will buy guns and not shoot very often, but they are hardly going to get frustrated and "quit". What is it they are quitting?

I have guns that my grandpa was shooting 60 years ago. He was a dentist, hardly a gun nut, shot occassionally, and they got passed down to my dad, my brother, and me.

I'm not worried at all, let's keep the general populace buying as many guns as they can, because the more support we have the better. While it would be wonderful if everyone was shooting 100 rounds a week for practice, that is never going to happen. Those that like to shoot more frequently it is tough on right now, (myself included), but the price is worth it for me, to have more guns, ammo, and accessories being placed in the hands of Americans.

PeteyPete
March 14, 2009, 11:30 PM
Keep calling and digging, there are still guns out there. Took me a week, but I found a new nicely equipped S&W M&P15 for $950...all considering, not bad for this market. I paid a 100 bucks less for a Bushmaster 5 years ago.

Of course, there are still gougers out there...one guy was asking $1500 plus tax for the same gun I bought plus rear BUIS.

Hungry Seagull
March 14, 2009, 11:36 PM
Keep patrolling and keep an eye out. There are finds still there to be found at decent pricing online and in various shops.

I developed a 6 month shoot chart showing how many rounds wife and I will shoot each month to stay fresh with markmanship and make a small supply of ammuntion last 6 months without the need for panic buying or emptying shelves.

This spending total about half of my own pocket money outside of the family budget and still making a profit each month on the cash flow. So Im happy, wife is happy and everyone all around gets to enjoy being financially stimulated from time to time each month.

I think my state of contentment will last until about the 5th month when the patrolling for more ammuntion for the next 6 months starts all over again.

:cool:

MountainBear
March 14, 2009, 11:40 PM
Not very many if you ask me. Few people buy guns for the novelty of owning them. Many will buy guns and not shoot very often, but they are hardly going to get frustrated and "quit". What is it they are quitting?

I see your argument and respectfully disagree. People buying guns is a good thing, I think most of us agree with that. I think that people are buying them as a novelty (thats a broad term in this case). This is the video game crowd. Your parents and mine taught us to respect guns and that they were a part of our history to be continued through our families. But people coming out of families like that are not really new, they are a continuation of their upbringing and would probably support the second amendment even before or if they couldn't own guns. The video game crowd (broad term for another major group of new gunowners) buy them because they see them on video games, or news, or movies and buy them cause they think its cool (or some other reason). As long as they get the proper training, I'm happy to see them into our fold. But take this. A guy buys a .40 Glock because he sees Tommy Lee Jones with one in the movies. The gunstore owner rightfully tells him its also good to defend his home and family. He buys the gun and sees a box of .40 and gets those too (lucky bugger, I haven't seen .40 in two months). He shoots them to get familiar with his gun. So he goes to buy more. But wait, none to be had. So it goes in the drawer. He doesn't train with it, he doesn't connect with it. He doesn't bother learning more about his 2nd amendment rights or anything else in our culture.
Suddenly he needs some money and thinks well, I'll just sell the Glock. I can't shoot it anyway. So one of us gets a good deal on it, cool. But he no longer has a personal connection to the 2nd amendment so next time he goes to vote, maybe he votes for a D rated candidate rather than an A rated candidate (either party, doesn't really matter) because it no longer matters. to him.
Could this happen? Certainly, I do not think my argument has been unreasonable or far-fetched. Could it happen another way? Certainly.

Sorry this reply got long winded and may be hard to follow, I'm tired and I may be rambling.

Bubba613
March 14, 2009, 11:53 PM
It's all a government conspiracy.

Hungry Seagull
March 15, 2009, 12:01 AM
MountainBear, you may not be too far off the mark.


"...need cash, sell the gun cannot use it..." oh well.

What happens when America Needs Cash? Who sells this Country? Anyone?

Nathanael_Greene
March 15, 2009, 12:05 AM
What happens when America Needs Cash?

What do you mean, "when"?

As for the original post, today's panic buyers are tomorrow's panic sellers. Houses, stocks, guns, it's all the same thing--swarms who buy high, sell low.

In a little while, you'll be smirking about all the great deals you got by taking stuff off people's hands at bargain rates.

Hungry Seagull
March 15, 2009, 12:10 AM
Nathanael_Greene, no smirking here. No Sir. We are to be humble and enjoy the things that we are allowed to have in this life.

Let's see.... Some percentage of the people buying thier guns turn around and resell them to pay the grocery bill or gas money 5 months from now. Inflation sets in, society breaks down, more panic buying as the people realize that they make a mistake selling off weapon for quick cash in first place.

How is the USA suppose to get a grip and stay steady when tossed about in this storm financially? Even Congress swore that there is a dire problem and they need money now.

what was that commercial? Oh yes... "I need money NOW!"

Cash is going to be King and it's going to hurt us all when the Firearms Industry from the Factory all the way down to the small gunshop no longer knows what to do or expect from the ebb and flow of this... panic during the year.

MountainBear
March 15, 2009, 12:11 AM
In a little while, you'll be smirking about all the great deals you got by taking stuff off people's hands at bargain rates.


Might take advantage of some good deals, sure. Better that than they take them to a police gun buy-back.

I'd gladly forgo a good deal or two if it means more new (see my above definition of new) shooters stay involved and we have more people fighting to protect our 2nd amendment rights.

mnrivrat
March 15, 2009, 12:27 AM
I guess I have to comment - popular or not !

I don't look at this as an oppertunity to get frustrated and whine about it. While there are shortages at the moment , I consider that a tempory thing, and at the end ,we have more voters who are pro 2nd amendment.

An oppertunity to wring out the trusty .22 rimfire and hone your basic skills until the centerfire ammo manufacturing can catch up. If you bought a truck load of ammo with the idea of making a profit - good luck .

Like a farmer who holds onto his beans trying to hit the high price peak, you are taking a risk, and perhaps you can make some money, and perhaps you'll loose some. Either way, it's your right to try.

I always have/keep a supply that will carry me through some period of scarcity. Not cases, but not just a couple boxes either. I will be just fine as long as I conserve on usage for awhile. If you didn't have any supply, you will struggle more to find your ammo, and pay a higher price. That's just the way it is .

Try making a living off selling this stuff like my friend who owns the local gun shop , and then figure out what it means when you can't find anything to sell. Then. I think you will have the right to whine a bit, because your income depends on it.

Actualy, you always have the right to whine - just might not do you any good. :D

chris in va
March 15, 2009, 12:31 AM
I'm with you. This ammo hoarding/buying craze has got to stop. Getting ridiculous.

Big Bill
March 15, 2009, 02:41 AM
How many of you are making constant trips to the range to shoot up all that scarce ammo that you stocked up on when it was cheap and then complain that you can't find any more at those same cheap prices? If so, I don’t feel a bit sorry for you; and, you better adopt a different mindset soon. Because, it just may come to pass very soon that every round you foolishly burned up on the range screwing around and having fun, now may be ammo you regret having wasted when the time comes that you really need it to protect yourself or your family. Alan Keyes says that civil war is coming soon. Maybe he's right!

However, I agree that lots of folks who just took up firearms need to train. But, there are lots and lots of people who shoot just for the fun of it. That's fine if they can pay the higher prices for ammo as the shortages drive up prices. But, I'll be damned if I'm going to feel sorry for them because prices went up and now they can't burn ammo like they used to or even find it.

rondog
March 15, 2009, 03:12 AM
I got back into shooting because I just LOVE slaughtering soda cans filled with water! The grandson loves it too.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/200810051650002.jpg

Adam2340
March 15, 2009, 11:07 AM
My only concern is the panic buyers now aren't really trying to become shooters, they're making an investment for something they think will be more valuable in the future. For those people, it makes economic sense to support a future AWB. I don't think we can count on all the new buyers being allies. People vote their wallets and the only way they can justify that 1500 dollar AR15 is to make it that valuable by eliminating the future supply.

RyanM
March 15, 2009, 11:11 AM
A lot of folks say, "It's a good deal that we have all of these new gun owners. It's good for our rights. We need everyone we can get." Well, I'm not buying it.

Too lazy to read this whole thing, but you know, even if none of these panic buyers will fight for their rights, even if every single one is planning on turning around and selling the gun, just the plain, simple fact that "assault weapon" sales shot up by a bajillion percent (especially with this economic downturn, and so few people able to afford something like that) will send a message to the White House. If nothing else, it does say "we will own these things, come hell or high water."

john1911
March 15, 2009, 11:45 AM
So, to summarize; people shouldn't be buying guns because you can't find components?

jnyork
March 15, 2009, 12:38 PM
Question: When does it stop being prudence and start being panic? Just askin'.

Adam2340
March 15, 2009, 02:21 PM
Question: When does it stop being prudence and start being panic? Just askin'.

Right question, wrong direction. When does the panic stop?

Lone_Gunman
March 15, 2009, 02:41 PM
Personally I don't care what a person's motivations are for purchasing a gun, as long as they are legal. Also, it really is going to be a numbers game down the road.

The more people we have that own guns the better.

I disagree. More gun owners is not necessarily better. Most of these people involved in the gun buying panic right now are people who fall into one of two categories:

1. They failed to prepare for the Democratic takeover, which was obviously coming. These are not necessarily bad people, just stupid enough to fail to prepare.

or

2. They actually voted for Democrats, knowing full well they were gun grabbers. Then they selfishly went down and bought guns they thought would be banned by the very people they voted for, so they would have one for themselves. As long as they get what they want, they don't care what happens to others, or even their own progeny. These people are dispicable.

61chalk
March 15, 2009, 02:58 PM
I think people have have the right to own, sell an stock up on as much stuff as they like, they have a right to shoot, or not to shoot. ...its part of our freedom. If someone buys all the ammo, an I have to wait...its not a crime...buy if your in a panic, or buy for your passion, buy to hunt, ....I don't see why this should be getting anyone upset..I shoot my AR, my friend just bought one an says he'll never shoot it, just wanted to have one an someday he might sell an make some money....thats his right...

Grey_Mana
March 15, 2009, 03:04 PM
So your right to a gun, ammo, reloading equipment is more important than my right because?

When you talk about more gun owners being better or not being better, you mean better for you. What's better for you should influence my decision on what to buy because?

Phydeaux642
March 15, 2009, 03:40 PM
I don't look at this as an oppertunity to get frustrated and whine about it. While there are shortages at the moment , I consider that a tempory thing, and at the end ,we have more voters who are pro 2nd amendment.


I don't really buy that. For example, I know several people that own guns, including a family member, that really has no strong feelings about the 2nd amendment at all and wouldn't complain much if their rights were taken from them.

My only concern is the panic buyers now aren't really trying to become shooters, they're making an investment for something they think will be more valuable in the future. For those people, it makes economic sense to support a future AWB. I don't think we can count on all the new buyers being allies. People vote their wallets and the only way they can justify that 1500 dollar AR15 is to make it that valuable by eliminating the future supply.

Bingo. That's what I'm getting at.

So, to summarize; people shouldn't be buying guns because you can't find components?

Buy all of the guns you want at the inflated prices. That doesn't bother me a bit. But all of the people that are stockpiling items in order to profit from the shortage that they have created can choke on said items.

Question: When does it stop being prudence and start being panic? Just askin'.

Prudence is before the gun grabbers take control, panic is after.

my friend just bought one an says he'll never shoot it, just wanted to have one an someday he might sell an make some money....thats his right...

Be careful. If you are not an FFL, I believe it is illegal to buy and then sell guns for a profit.

So your right to a gun, ammo, reloading equipment is more important than my right because?


I never said I had anymore rights than you. Read it again. I said that I was tired of the panic buying, especially by the profiteers.

UnclePete
March 15, 2009, 03:44 PM
I'm going to have to disagree. Personally I don't care what a person's motivations are for purchasing a gun, as long as they are legal. Also, it really is going to be a numbers game down the road.


Too right. Shooting as a small minority sport is easy to knock down.

Poper
March 15, 2009, 07:04 PM
Quote:
my friend just bought one an says he'll never shoot it, just wanted to have one an someday he might sell an make some money....thats his right...
Be careful. If you are not an FFL, I believe it is illegal to buy and then sell guns for a profit.
Ummm. I believe so. Seems to me, when you buy a gun with the intention to resell at a profit, that is the essence and maybe the definition of a "dealer".
Last time I checked, BATFE frowns on unlicensed dealers...:scrutiny:

Poper

CU74
March 15, 2009, 07:21 PM
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii148/CU74/Gun%20Counter/ChillPill.jpg

Phydeaux642
March 15, 2009, 07:58 PM
To add a little fuel to the fire, I was at the range today to shoot the bull a little with the guys that work there. I was told that a corporate decision had been made to double the yearly range membership fee. This will take place in a couple of weeks. The hourly rate is also going from $10 to $20 an hour. My membership was due so I got in at the lower rate this year. No one is allowed to shoot for more than an hour and they may go so far as to make you make an appointment to get in. :fire:

I really hope everyone that has taken part in the panic turns out to be great advocates for shooters everywhere. That would make the temporary pain worth it. Time will tell.

Officers'Wife
March 15, 2009, 08:48 PM
Hi Phydeaux,

Try looking in the long term for a moment. Increased demand = increased profitability = more manufacturing. So in a few months there will be a greater supply. However, we are in the middle of a recession that is likely to be worsened by current policy. When the unemployment gets up high enough desperate people will put even more used product on the market. I expect to see firearms and accessories to be one of bigger victims of a mismanaged economy.

Southern Rebel
March 15, 2009, 09:13 PM
I see Phydeaux's viewpoint - it is a very short journey from rugged individualist to solitary survivalist. Now don't get me wrong, you have an American right to become that solitary person. But if you are content to do that, quit preaching to me about the virginity of the second amendment because that amendment visualized an armed citizenry banded together to preserve a country with a way of life never before achieved. That amendment concept is molested every time we step back with an attitude of "I got my stash of ammo and all you newbies needed to have been as smart as I have been." Again, your right and your privilege - but the less said about it, the better off we are as a group.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 15, 2009, 09:36 PM
No problems here. But I'd been stocking up on ammo and guns for years.

I think it's kinda twisted that JUST when the BHO election frenzy was about to die down, Eric Holder makes the asinine statements about a new so-called "AWB", and American gun shows being responsible for Mexican drug gang killings. Frenzy renewed/exacerbated!! Then, just when that was about to die down, the shootings in Germany and Alabama happened back to back, rejuvenating Brady and others calling for a new so-called "AWB". Frenzy renewed/exacerbated!!

The gun industry has a lot of thank you cards to send out to BHO & staff, and the Brady Bunch.

I don't have any problem with the frenzy. I'm finding almost as many deals as before because of the economy, I think, balancing out the frenzy. Even if I wasn't, not being able to justify spending money is a good thing. I think it's mighty good to get new people into the sport, if it's having that effect, and I think it is to an extent. It's also getting existing gun owners to by EBRs, and when they buy EBRs, they become endeared to their EBRs, and when they become endeared to their EBRs, they transition from a FUDD to someone who will actually add their voice to the fight against the ban-crazy nonsense floating about right now.

SouthernRebel, very well said!!!

MountainBear
March 15, 2009, 09:47 PM
I think great deals can still be had for guns, and will be for the foreseeable future as all the panic buyers start selling. However, two things bother me.

First, gun owners are losing their guns. Now some of these probably never should have had them in the first place, but others are good, decent, hard-working Americans trying to survive in a situation that may or may not be their fault. I get deals because of them, but it makes me sad. I've had to sell guns before to sell bills. If you never have, you'll never understand.

Two, even if I do take advantage of these good deals, I can't shoot them. No one is selling ammo in stores, and those selling ammo used are selling it for inflated prices that would have got them laughed at last year. And I'm not even talking about EBR ammo (7.62x51,39 and 5.56), I saw a guy at a gunshow selling 100 round walmart value packs of 9mm for something like 45$ a box. If my memory serves me correct, the last one I bought there late last year (before I gave up on walmart, a story for a different time) cost me between 19$ and 25$. That may be capitalism, but its sucks to see gun guys gouging fellow gun guys.

Phydeaux642
March 15, 2009, 09:57 PM
Increased demand = increased profitability = more manufacturing. So in a few months there will be a greater supply.

Well, I have recently read that many of the ammo manufacturers are not ramping up too much to meet this demand. I assume they feel that the bubble will soon burst and a warehouse full of ammo would not be a good thing.

its sucks to see gun guys gouging fellow gun guys.


That's what really bothers me the most. I've got a stash of 9mm that I could make a tidy profit on, but I would never consider doing it.

joefriday
March 16, 2009, 12:31 AM
Just joined the forum half hour ago. Introduced myself. Suddenly in the thick of it. Front line combat with no Boot Camp:).

I saw the writing on the wall several years ago. Started buying weapons and ammo at that time. Shot up most of the ammo I bought. I now have a few hundred rounds for each of my weapons. Don't know if that's really stockpiling? Especially when I talk to people that casually mention their thousands of rounds. I gues I'm looking at it with the Boy Scout frame of mind(Be Prepared). '
'Panic' buyers do contribute to the economy, and depending on what the economy does from here, there may be good deals or just a well armed populace. As with any new endeavor that most of us have ventured in to, some things we're still very engaged in, while other things take up the bottom of the closet, part of the attic, basement, or garage. If you throw enough spaghetti against the wall, some of it sticks. There will be new enthusiasts, new RKBA supporters, new deals, new friends, and new stories to tell our grandkids.
Over the past 10 to 15 years there has been an upswing in gun ownership. CHL statutes in most of the states has helped. More gun shows and word of mouth has helped.

A couple of things that can help in the future, especially with legislation, are things I've picked up from gunlaws.com. The word "ASSAULT" is a type of behavior, not a type of weapon. There is NO such thing as "HI CAP" magazines, only normal capacity magazines. I see these two offenses at every gun show I go to. If you want to stop 'Panic' and 'Madness' start with these two items.

Thanks

Lone_Gunman
March 16, 2009, 12:32 AM
That's what really bothers me the most. I've got a stash of 9mm that I could make a tidy profit on, but I would never consider doing it.

Do you also think that Colt SAA's that sold new 100 years ago for $50 should still be only sold for $50???

MountainBear
March 16, 2009, 01:17 AM
Do you also think that Colt SAA's that sold new 100 years ago for $50 should still be only sold for $50???

No, but I doubt people bought them with the idea of stashing them away and making a killing (figuratively speaking) by selling them when a politician told colt they couldn't sell them anymore.

Wesson Smith
March 16, 2009, 01:19 AM
I'll have to agree with the OP, to some degree. The panic seems to have
rolled along unabated since October of last year, and shows no appreciable
signs of slowing down, at least in my neck of the woods. I can no longer
go to my two local dealers for a pleasant hour or two of perusing (and possibly
purchasing) a decently priced firearm. Both stores are packed to the walls
80% of the time, and the guys who work there no longer have the time
to wait on loyal customers properly. They're the first to admit that, and most
of them don't like it one bit. The owner of one of the shops told me that
he's almost at the point where he no longer enjoys being in the business,
and says that the extra money his business is making is almost not worth
the hassle. Like most of us here, I have a great love for the shooting sports,
and that will never change, but personally my patience is being sorely tested.

And range sessions are a whole other can of worms. These panic buyers
of course want to try out their new purchases. The lines and the wait at
the public ranges in my area are unbearable. I have a membership at a
private club, but it's almost an hour's drive from my home, so shooting
at a local public range used to be a viable alternative. Not anymore.
I just quit going, at least until this craziness subsides. I try to make
the trip to the private range once a week just to keep my skills honed,
but with a busy schedule, that's not always possible.

I try to remain semi-optimistic. As others have pointed out, this too
shall pass. At least I hope so. For now, I find it to be nothing but
an irritating, major pain in the arse.

Ok...I'm done venting. I'll probably catch some flak regarding my
"whining", but c'est la vie. :rolleyes:

12131
March 16, 2009, 02:39 AM
I think people have have the right to own, sell an stock up on as much stuff as they like, they have a right to shoot, or not to shoot. ...its part of our freedom. If someone buys all the ammo, an I have to wait...its not a crime...buy if your in a panic, or buy for your passion, buy to hunt, ....I don't see why this should be getting anyone upset..I shoot my AR, my friend just bought one an says he'll never shoot it, just wanted to have one an someday he might sell an make some money....thats his right...
How dare you inject logic into here.

rbernie
March 16, 2009, 09:02 AM
I try to remain semi-optimistic. As others have pointed out, this too shall pass. At least I hope so. For now, I find it to be nothing but an irritating, major pain in the arse. Yeah, having all these new shooters in our ranks is really terrible. I sure liked the sport a lot better when there were fewer of us and supplies were better. Who cares if we were more easily marginalized because we were lesser in numbers? WallWorld had great stocks of cheap WWB! That's all that matters, isn't it?

<sigh>

Y'all really need to get a grip. Given the number of new shooters we've gained, you should be pleased that we are potentially a much more potent political block. Instead of sitting around crying "OH NOES!" , perhaps you should be spending some extra time at the range and in the stores to pass along some tips and help to the FNGs. Maybe even invite them to THR to further their gun knowledge and introduce them to the RKBA fight. That's what I've been doing, and it both feels good and seems to be resonating with those with whom I talk.

These panic buyers of course want to try out their new purchases. The lines and the wait at the public ranges in my area are unbearable. This has been my experience as well. That tells me that a significant number of these 'gun run' purchasers aren't speculative purchasers - they really *do* want to have a gun and the election pushed them over the top.

So make a point of reaching out to them instead of sitting behind a keyboard and griping.

Please.

We need the new blood to keep the sport alive. Y'all have the ability to either marginalize these new folk with your attitude, or bring them into the fold.

Wesson Smith
March 16, 2009, 10:19 AM
Oh, well. I like to think I have a pretty good "grip" on things. It was merely my opinion, and I stand by it. Sheesh.

Adam2340
March 16, 2009, 10:38 AM
I remain skeptical that these new purchasers are truly "in our ranks," I hope they are, but I remain unconvinced. At Collector's last week, I had a conversation with someone filling out the paperwork to buy an M82 .50 that went like this:

Me: That's an amazing weapon, where are you going to shoot it? I hear American will allow .50s
Him: Oh, I'm not going to shoot it. I'm going to hold on to it until it's banned, and then sell it for more.
Me: [dumbfounded]

Do you think this person will stand with us to oppose a new AWB? I don't. Do you think this person will oppose a ban on .50s because it's an arbitrary restriction on caliber? No, he'll support the ban because it will drive the value of his investment up. I hope he's in the minority, but I haven't seen an increase in the number of people at the local range.

I fully support everyone's right to buy as much of whatever they can afford. I hope everyone here also supports my right to question whether or not these same buyers are, in fact, our allies. It's more important now than ever to try to get people out to enjoy shooting. All these new owners are of no value to us if they won't support the rights of future gun owners now that "they've got theirs."

chuckusaret
March 16, 2009, 10:41 AM
I don't have a problem with all the new gun owners. What I have a problem with is that you don't see the same increase at the gun ranges getting familiar with their new toys

RoadkingLarry
March 16, 2009, 10:44 AM
My local shop sells all the guns he can get at below MSRP, for some of us he will do a cost plus 10% special order, He had 1 name brand AR/M4 varient and a couple of AK varients on the rack along with th usual selection of usual stuff you find in a small gun/pawn shop.
Ammo is a little thin but he has never tried to match wally world, he had several Federal bulk packs of .22lr on his shelf Saturday afternoon along with a couple of cases of wolf 7.62X39 and some wolf .223. The shop in the next town where I buy most of my reloading supplies has an ample supply of powder and primers and has not raised prices above the normal annual inflationary increases we have seen for years.
The local wallyworld is thin on ammo but it is starting to get better, not as much empty space on the shelves as there was a month ago.

HoosierQ
March 16, 2009, 10:56 AM
A young guy who works for me went out a bought a gun for the very reason of worrying that the'd be hard to get. He got a nice new Sigma 9mm (VE or whatever the new models are called) that he really likes and takes care of like you wouldn't believe. He has put in a lot of time on the range with his roomate learning how to shoot this gun well. This guy was raised right, is very responsible, very smart, and is an asset to the gun owning community.

So we are picking up some good new gun owners. I gotta be honest...I am shooting less for a couple of reasons. 1) My wife has fallen out with her parents who live in the country so I am short one private shooting range, and 2) Ammo is hard to find and dear when you find it so, no, I don't want to shoot it all up if I cannot replace it. But I am not panicking. When gas was $4 a gallon a drove less and today it is $1.75...so I am driving more again. With luck, even if the price does not come down, the supply of ammo will pick up again.

As far as prices in general, the last ammo I bought was Speer Gold Dot Self Defense ammo, 50 rounds per box for $29.95. Bought 8 boxes and they had a lot more left. That is a heck of a deal. They guy could charge more but he didn't. He does charge way too much for his used guns though.

It is a market economy man.

Phydeaux642
March 16, 2009, 11:09 AM
Y'all really need to get a grip. Given the number of new shooters we've gained, you should be pleased that we are potentially a much more potent political block.

Let's wait and see how the ranks of the NRA stand in a year. My guess is the membership won't grow much because only "gun nuts" join groups like that. As I stated elsewhere, my mom owns three handguns and couldn't care less about gun rights.

Hikingman
March 16, 2009, 11:38 AM
The buying in multiples (more than before the Nov. election) has a catch-up effect, now we're seeing empty shelves or store displays.:banghead:

rightside
March 16, 2009, 11:42 AM
"in our ranks,"

Sounds like some people believe that they are more entiled than others, or have more experience or more forum posts etc,etc...

No matter what modivates people to jump into action and rush to the gun stores, they have the same RIGHTS as any one, to buy and own as many/much as they want.

Should they be rationed on what they can buy, where they can go to shoot. Maybe we should set up a governing system to make sure none of the un-ranked get out of line and bother any of the elite.

Is what is happening bothersome, yes! But I believe it to be right.

Phydeaux642
March 16, 2009, 11:47 AM
Is what is happening bothersome, yes! But I believe it to be right.

Well, when a box of .38s, 9mm, etc. are running $40-$50 a box we'll see how much everyone likes them apples.

MountainBear
March 16, 2009, 11:52 AM
Y'all really need to get a grip. Given the number of new shooters we've gained, you should be pleased that we are potentially a much more potent political block. Instead of sitting around crying "OH NOES!" , perhaps you should be spending some extra time at the range and in the stores to pass along some tips and help to the FNGs.

I'd love to go to the range and help all these new shooters. That would be really cool. I am all for having new people swell our ranks. But I have no ammo to shoot, so why bother going to the range? Sitting and watching everyone else have fun is torture.

Not sure the new shooters are the ones panic buying all the ammo. I think its our own beloved brethren. But hey as long as you get yours, screw everyone else, right? Wow, when did we become liberals?

And I wouldn't worry about my grip if I were you, I still think I know how to hold my guns (I just can't remember what .45ACP recoil feels like). :rolleyes:

Ben Shepherd
March 16, 2009, 12:07 PM
Well, the DODs little stunt with the scrap 223 and 308 brass last week sure won't help on the long gun side of things.....:banghead:

MountainBear
March 16, 2009, 12:10 PM
It will help because they'll still sell the scrapped, shredded brass. Those of you shooting EBR's in .308 or .223 may not have as much remanufactured to shoot, but the rest of the industry should see an increase in brass (raw material) availability. I just love a little optimism in the morning...

Ben Shepherd
March 16, 2009, 12:29 PM
Yeah, but-:D

1. That's IF it doesn't go straight to China.

2. New brass case vs. used = higher prices.

Ah, pessimism in the morning.

We have achived balance Grasshopper.

lesterg3
March 16, 2009, 12:57 PM
I am becoming very tired of listening to those of you who can no longer get what they want at a drop of the hat, yeah getting supplies is tough now.

But, I can still find what I need, it takes a little more work, but it's out there.
Hopefully the newbies will remain serious about the guns and ammunition, and reloading supplies they are buying and they will join those organizations that support and defend what we believe in, even if only 25% do we now have a greater number than we had previously, that can only benefit us.

The real problem here is the manufacturers, they are not producing to demand, and that is because of all of the new fangled manufacturing ideals that the US and other countries have developed from watching the Japanese take over the as the manufacturers of the century, You know JIT, Zero Inventory, and the worst of all 6 Sigma, these are dictating to the manufacturers what they do and how they respond to what they see as a temporary change in market conditions. Bitch to them not your local Sports Shop. This is simply a case of supply and demand, and in the long run it will even out.

I can guarantee you the the manufacturers are looking for a saturation point where normal demand will return to levels attainable by normal levels of manufacturing.

Piss and moan all you want to, but this in the broader sense a great development for gun owners, the more we are the less likely the Government will take our rights away from us. It would not be conducive to reelection.

rightside
March 16, 2009, 01:08 PM
Well, when a box of .38s, 9mm, etc. are running $40-$50 a box we'll see how much everyone likes them apples.

Maybe get out and buy a bunch before the price goes up.....

Wow, when did we become liberals?

No kidding............

Lone_Gunman
March 16, 2009, 01:11 PM
Hopefully the newbies will remain serious about the guns and ammunition, and reloading supplies they are buying and they will join those organizations that support and defend what we believe in, even if only 25% do we now have a greater number than we had previously, that can only benefit us.

I do not think the newbies will remain serious about guns. I do not think they were serious to begin with. I think a lot of them voted for Obama, and then went out and bought themselves a gun so they would have what they wanted, without regard for what the Dems might do to restrict gun ownership.

If these people were dumb enough to vote for gun grabbers, then I don't think they are going to be too dedicated to preserving 2nd Amendment rights.

rbernie
March 16, 2009, 01:19 PM
But hey as long as you get yours, screw everyone else, right? Wow, when did we become liberals?That remark makes no sense. 'Every man for themself' is a classic capitalist approach, as opposed to a communtarian or communistic approach that some of you seem to be advocating. Rationing and the notion of 'shares' is a strictly communal view, and aligns those that hold it with the socialist movement moreso than not.

But we're getting way off into an endless discussion comprised of back-n-forth bickering with no good end.

Enough.

If you enjoyed reading about "Please, God, Make It Stop!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!