[redrock]

I am a flint lock shooter. I have one cap gun and old Navy Arms 1858 Remington. I have been looking at the Colt copies in the Midway Catalog. I am now thinking of ordering one of the Ubertes. But which one would be the best for just plinging at rocks etc.? The .36 Navy. The Walker, I like the looks of the Whitneyville Dragoon.:confused: I am confused by the different types of Dragoons. It looks like the Dragoons are as powerful as the Walker with some improvements. Need some of that expert forum advice.:confused:

[Elbert P . Suggins]

The first advice I would give you is don't plink at rocks! I can remember in 1961 when a 12 year old friend of mine was shooting at rocks with his 22 rifle. He took a richochet between the eyes and it split. They removed one piece from behind his left eye but he still has fragments in his eye socket in the right and he has partial vision. You will be shooting solid lead and of course the 22 is solid lead but only tiny. Think about it! A good beginner cap and ball would be the Remington 58 in .44 cal. Easier to clean and load. The 3Dragoons are basically the same but a little smaller than the Walker but will make pretty much the same noise and smoke. Good luck to you and welcome to the finest shooting sport I know!

[Elbert P . Suggins]

Would also like to add that I am no expert but own and shoot all of the above except the Walker which I replaced with a First Model Dragoon. Just to clarify.

[whosyrdaddy]

If you get the Walker, you can tell your friends about how it's not just the "original six shooter", but that it was also the "most powerful production revolver in the world" from 1847 until 1935.

If balance and point-ability float your boat, then nothing, now or then, can compare to the '51 navy.

If you want to know that you have the finest percussion revolver ever made (IMHO), go get a Ruger Old Army.

In the end it doesn't really matter because chances are you will get them all eventually.

[messerist]

Whosyrdaddy is correct-a-mundo. The addiction is untreatable. I like the Walker and then you can join the Walker Club. Which ever one you get will only be the first.:):):)

[mykeal]

Given your stated purpose, which is plinking (I'll spare the lecture about rocks; I'm sure you know better by now), and the fact that you already have an 1858 Remington, I think the 1851 Navy (.36 cal) is probably the best choice. I'd follow that by an 1861 Navy (.36 cal) and the Rogers and Spencer (.44 cal, currently made by Euroarms). Another great choice would be a Ruger Old Army (.44 cal), which I believe is the best bp revolver ever made, but it is larger and no longer in production.

The Dragoons and the Walker (both .44 cal) are large frame and heavy guns, not something you'd normally go plinking with.

[sltm1]

It'll cost alot less in the long run if you stick w/ a 36. Remmie has a 36 out also. That said, I'm addicted to 44's and my two favorites are my Rogers & Spencer and my 2nd gen Colt 1860. The Colt comes up to point almost by itself and is great for "intutitive" shooting (no real sighting in, just point and click), but I've had the R&S tuned and when I pay attention it can drive tacks all day long.

[madcratebuilder]

Any of the above would be a fine choice. The 51 and 61 Navy models sure feel good in your hand. I like the 51 so well I bought a second one. I have stayed away from the Dragoons because that well mean three revolvers. Then there is the belly guns.....

[sltm1]

Only 2 revolvers.....are you wearing a "Help to quit bp buying" patch on your arm or what???

[Sagetown]

I'm thinking on the line of a .36 cal also. Just for plinking around, be careful, those round balls can bounce off hard objects, even Oak stumps.:eek::eek:

[madcratebuilder]

Only 2 revolvers.....are you wearing a "Help to quit bp buying" patch on your arm or what???
Put a four after the two, I'm addicted, no doubt. 13 Colts and 11 'others'
1st, 2nd and 3rd model Dragoon plus any variations. Was a repro of the Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon that was produced only in late 1847 and early 1848 ever been offered? The Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon included many parts identical to Walker parts, making it a unique hybrid of old and new. This led to its later designation as the "Transition Walker." That would be #4

From Texasranger.org
"Dragoons
The FIRST MODEL SQUARE BACK has the square-back trigger guard, brass back strap, and thin barrel lug, with the barrel wedge above the screw. This early model’s loading notch is the non-beveled V type, and the one-piece, wooden grips are the Slim Jim style with an upward flare of the butt on each side of the brass butt straps. The wedge screw is under the wedge, and the 5/16” wedge is placed through the thin barrel lug upside down. The serial number range is 1-1250.
The SECOND MODEL SQUARE BACK retained the brass square-back trigger guard, brass back strap with the screw placed above the wedge, along with the wedge entering up right. The barrel lug is thin and the cylinder pin is slotted. The serial number range is 1250-4200.
The EARLY THIRD MODEL has the small, round, brass trigger guard, brass back strap, and V-loading notch with the wedge screw over the wedge. The loading lever screw enters from the right. The serial number range is 4200 to 30000.
The MIDDLE THIRD MODEL has the small, round, brass trigger guard, brass back strap, V-loading lever, thick barrel lug, and the screw is over the wedge. The loading lever screw enters from the left side as do all the exterior screws, and the barrel lug was increased in size from 5/16” to 7/16.” The serial number range is 30000-37500.
Most of the LATE THIRD MODELS have the small, round, brass trigger guards and brass back straps. A small number are found with round iron trigger guards and back straps. The barrel lug is thick, the wedge is over the screw, and the loading notch is now beveled. The serial number range is 37500-85000.
The EARLY FOURTH MODEL has the larger round brass or iron trigger guard and the lading notch is beveled with a thick barrel wedge. The serial number range is 85000-118500.
The MIDDLE FOURTH MODEL retains the large brass round trigger guard and back straps of brass or iron. The loading notch is beveled with a thick barrel wedge, and the screw is over the wedge. The serial number range is 118500-16500.
The LATE FOURTH MODEL has the large brass trigger guard, a brass or iron back strap with beveled loading notch, and a thick barrel wedge with the screw over the wedge. The serial number range is 16500-215000."

So many guns...so little money.

[Sagetown]

Put a four after the two, I'm addicted, no doubt. 13 Colts and 11 'others':D

Wow ! Yep; I'd say you're hooked alright. Is there a stopping place?

[bigbadgun]

Addiction did someone say addiction.
When I got back into bp shooting I made the mistake of buying a Walker it was pure heroin for my shooting addiction now 9 bp guns later my wife is looking for a bp anonymous for me. However like I keep telling her I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM.

[pwillie]

I am looking at a Ruger old army,and would like to know which is best SST or Blue?Also,who makes the best REPO? Pietta or Uberti?...What about Midway? Help. Colt Walker? Real thing or REPO? THanks, Willie

[bigbadgun]

I wish it was the real thing. Sorry just a Uberti repo

[mykeal]

best?
I am looking at a Ruger old army,and would like to know which is best SST or Blue?Also,who makes the best REPO? Pietta or Uberti?...What about Midway? Help. Colt Walker? Real thing or REPO? THanks, Willie
Sheesh. How do you answer a question like that?

Blued or stainless ROA: neither, or both, is 'best'; it's a matter of personal choice, and I have no idea what criteria you use to make those kind of decisions. Impossible to answer.

REPO: Assumptions: you mean replica rather than repossession, and you wish to limit the choice to Peitta vs Uberti, leaving out Euroarms, Pedersoli and others. Based on those assumptions - neither, or both, is 'best'; both make good quality products and both are capable of producing the rare and occasional lemon. There might be a very slight edge in favor of Uberti, but it's not worth walking across the street for.

Midway: What about it? Generally well respected mail order retail supplier, neither the worst nor the best. Good reputation for customer service/support, prices are generally within the market, sometimes the lowest, sometimes not. Was that your question?

Colt Walker, real thing or REPO: Buy an original if you can afford it - it'll cost more than a 4 bedroom house, but hey, what's a few bucks? Uberti is the only company currently making replicas, but you can find good quality Armi San Marco, Colt Blackpowder Arms (3rd Generation aka Signature Series) and Colt's Manufacturing Company (2nd Generation) guns on the used market. All fine guns, in my opinion.

Did that answer your questions?

[madcratebuilder]

Quote:
Put a four after the two, I'm addicted, no doubt. 13 Colts and 11 'others'


Wow ! Yep; I'd say you're hooked alright. Is there a stopping place?

No, not in sight anyway. I just bid on a nine gun estate, mostly 3rd gens. My 'plan' is to keep two or three, sell the rest. I think I have said that before.....

Nothing wrong with having cased sets.

[pwillie]

MY-KILL: Didn't mean to post a stupid question....but, this was my first post about a blackpowder revolver. I own several Ruger '44s,but no BP ! in fact I have never shot a BP revolver or rifle...I just think its time I get involved into that branch of fire arms.Being from the south('Bama)... I would like a reb style,Colt ....Dragoon?....Walker?...ehhh...Navy or Army?Maybe a Remington?...you never answered my question about Ruger's Old Army? Help! Willie

[sltm1]

pwillie, Reb Style options (off the top of my head):
Spiller & Burr
Griswald & Gunnison
Any colt clone that has a brass receiver is made to resemble the Confederate arms that were made during the war due to a shortage of steel in the south.
Also, any period correct reproduction of Union produced arms would be correct, as weapons were scrounged all the time. Now you've got Remington, Colt, Savage North, Whitneyville, etc etc, to choose from. No Ruger, it's a shooter's not a reenactors gun.

[sltm1]

I forgot to mention the Starr revolver (S/A or D/A), the 3rd most produced and used revolver in the Civil War.

[mykeal]

Not a stupid question, but a complicated one.

Re: Ruger Old Army. I think I said there is no 'best' finish. It's a matter of personal choice. Since I don't know you or what you like it's impossible to provide a meaningful answer.

If you truly want a Confederate revolver, as opposed to one that may have just been scrounged from a Union battlefield, you'll need to confine your choices to the Griswold and Gunnison, Spiller and Burr or LeMat. The first two were brass framed copies of the 1851 Colt Navy in .36 cal. Many modern replicas are made in .44 cal, which was never done in the 1860's. The Colt Walker and Dragoons are not options given that criteria.

[pwillie]

I have been looking on all the gun auction sites.My question,for a shooter is what is the actual shooting best revolver. The real Colts Or maybe an Italian repo? Which is the best value? I would like a modern milled gun over some brass cast made in the 1800's....I like safety as well as being correct for the period. I really would like to hear from a user of such revolvers. Any info will be most helpful.I can afford most of the revolvers found on the gun auction sites,but want spend a lot of money for a show piece.I want a gun that shoots as well as looks the part. Thats why I asked about the Rugers,they look like a take off of the Remington Army 1857. The other guns will be harder to find,my question about stainless is,which is better to keep clean etc. etc.. Also,is the Colts made by Colt,or some fruit salad country? Willie

[whosyrdaddy]

Also,is the Colts made by Colt,or some fruit salad country? Willie

What's a "fruit salad country"?
By the way, you are posting on an international board.

[pohill]

It seems that you want to jump to THE perfect gun on your first try - well, that ain't gonna happen. I don't know any BP shooters that own one gun, or one model. I'm sure those shooters exist, but they're rare. Think of Lays potato chips.

A true "real Colt" is an original, made "back in the day". Then you have 2nd Generation and 3rd Generation Colts, which are great guns, made of Italian parts (some) and American craftmanship. With them, you get the beauty, balance, feel, etc of Colt with the safety of it being modern.
Paterson, Walker, Dragoon, Baby Dragoon, Pocket, 1851 Navy, 1860 Army, Root, 1861 Navy, Pocket Police & Pocket Navy...pick one.
You will not find an original brass framed Southern gun that can be used as an everyday shooter. You can find a reproduction of one, though - Spiller & Burr, Griswold & Gunnison, etc.
Then there's the Remingtons - also great guns, but don't plan on shooting an original on a regular basis - get an Italian reproduction in .36 or .44 caliber. Pietta, Uberti - both great.
In my opinion, the best shooter is a Ruger Old Army. Hands down. Not necessarily my favorite (though on any given day it might be), but the best shooter. Stainless steel or blue? I own a blue, so I like blue. Tomorrow I might like stainless. Are they historically accurate? Yeah, to themselves.
Oh yeah, as whosrydaddy said, what is a fruit salad country? Not a good way to make friends.

[pwillie]

Whosyrdaddy:Pardon the political ( in )correctness,but if you don't have any input on my question,please refrain from answering with a question. BTW folks, I have found a "Armi San Marco"...any idea about this mfg?Also can anyone help me with Colt ,like 1st,2nd,3rd, generation? Does this mean the build years/ Thanks Willie.

[mykeal]

1st Generation Colts is a term that's rarely used. It would refer to guns made in the USA of parts made in the USA by Colt's Manufacturing Company, Inc. In this context (black powder percussion revolvers) they would have been made in the 1840's-1870's.

2nd Generation Colts is a much more common term which refers to guns made in the USA by Colt's Manufacturing Co. Inc. using castings/forgings made in Italy by Uberti. They are considered to be genuine Colt guns. They were made between 1971 and 1976 ('C' Series) and between 1978 and 1982 ('F' Series).

3rd Generation Colts refers to guns made in the USA by Colt Blackpowder Arms, Inc., under license to Colt's Manufacturing Co. Inc., using castings/forgings made in Italy by Uberti. They were made between 1994 and 2002. There is debate as to whether they qualify as genuine Colts.

The use of the 'Generation' distinctions in Colt history means different time periods for different models. In the case of their percussion revolvers the meanings are as stated above; for later cartridge guns the time periods and manufacturing details will be different.

Armi San Marco is an Italian firm which was purchased and reorganized as American Western Arms in 2000. Until that event they built several replica black powder guns for importation and sale in the US. They suffered from the same 'soft parts' quality problems as all Italian manufacturers in the 1980's and 1990's; they are considered to be generally acceptable, but not outstanding quality.

[pwillie]

Great info! Thanks for your reply. So none of the later generation Colts or all Colt,and made in the USA.?It seems that Uberti would be almost as good as the "Colts"? I wanted a strong action gun,and I guess a Ruger Old Army would fit my use as good as any.Thanks again, Willie. BTW what is your preference?

[sltm1]

pwillie, You gotta read what's written, not what you think's between the lines. Uberti made the cast parts for 2nd & 3rd gen colts, they were finished in the USA and authenticated as genuine colts (the 2nd gen can actually be papered from the factory). Ruger makes the strongest frame bp revolver ever constructed. Figure out what appeals to you asthetically then buy it. Chances are you'll want more after the first one anyhow so go ahead and take the plunge.

[mykeal]

So none of the later generation Colts or all Colt,and made in the USA.?
That's not what I said. As sltm1 says, read what's written.

2nd and 3rd Generation Colts were made in the USA by US Colt workers using genuine Colt processes and genuine Colt small parts. Uberti supplied rough castings only.

[madcratebuilder]

I guess a Ruger Old Army would fit my use as good as any

One of the finest C&B revolvers you can buy. An excellent learning platform and well last a lifetime. If your already familiar with Ruger revolvers that's a plus.

[pwillie]

[/QUOTE] The point I was trying to make,is that most of the post war (WW2)european countries,metal products were less than be desired. Ihave owned many Brit and Italian bikes,that had very poor metal castings,sorta like the old pot metal built bycycles after ww2.I was concerned about the steel quality,nothing more. Colt didn't produce a real all American gun?Like Ford builds trucks in Kentucky,but gets castings and parts from Canada and Mexico? Willie.

[pwillie]

MYKILL: What are the rough castings supplied by Italy(Uberti)? Thanks, Willie

[mykeal]

I don't know for sure. Probably the frame and grip frame.

[pwillie]

How about a Cimarron? I think they made by Uberti...I have a friend who went to work for the Cimarron folks about a year ago,as a sales person,maaybe I need to contact him.Willie

[mykeal]

Cimarron are indeed made by Uberti. Many claim they are the best quality guns Uberti makes.

[pwillie]

I called "Taylors" today,and spoke to a guy in the smithy dept.He answered many of my questions about the pros and cons of black powder shooting.The best answer was the quality question (Pietta vs Uberti) and the Uberti was his choice on some of the replicas. I was amazed about his response about the Ruger. He said like most of you ,that the Ruger Old Army was well made model.But,he also said that the Uberti was easier to reload than the Ruger.I asked about the revolver that Eastwood used in the movie "Pale Rider",and he said that it was not a Ruger and could have been a Replica by Uberti or some other Like Pietta,but wasn't sure. His choice for just range shooting is the Uberti Remington 1858 model. Thanks all for your help,Willie. And you will never know what a "Fruit Salad country" is!!!!!

[mykeal]

Your friend at Taylor's has some unusual ideas. Claiming that a Uberti (Remington? Colt? Top break? Cattleman?) is easier to reload than a Ruger is just utter nonsense. Did he say why he held that view? As far as the Pale Rider gun, who said that it was a Ruger? I don't find that claim anywhere in this thread. His choice for a range gun is an excellent one, however; can't fault that.

[pwillie]

No,he did not say the "Pale Rider" was a Ruger,he said that he didn't know what it was,and that it could be a "worked" up Hollywood from a Uberti or Pietta.THe Ruger he was talking about has a 3 piece front were as the Uberti has a one piece action to remove the cylinder.And I am talking about the Remington 1858 model.This guy fits the R&D cylinders for the converting to 45 LC.So I am thinking about buying direct from Taylor,and have him fit my 45 LC cylinder.The one I want as of now,is the 5 1/2 inch Uberti Remington.I also found a Ruger Old Army at a local gunshop,for 525.00 new in the box,which I plan to purchase.

[AdmiralB]

he also said that the Uberti was easier to reload than the Ruger

Remington clones, Pietta or Uberti, are easier and faster to swap cylinders. The actual loading process doesn't really vary from Colt/Remington/Ruger.

The Pale Rider gun is a cartridge conversion...dunno if it's a repro or an original, but it's got a keyed gate on the back of the frame that makes it a lot quicker to get the cylinder back in.

[pwillie]

He wasn't talking about the swing gate,which he does not convert(which is involved in milling the gun)His point was the Uberti-Pietta repos had a single motion to swap the cylinder. Also,why is Dixie Gun Works being dissed on many gun forums? Any one have a bad experience with Dixie?

[mykeal]

pwillie, you keep using the manufacturer names (Uberti and Pietta) as if they were gun designs, or models. There's a great deal of difference in the basic design of Colt and Remington percussion revolvers, and both Uberti and Pietta make both kinds. When you use Uberti and Pietta we don't know what design or model you're referring to, and a statement like, "the Uberti-Pietta repos had a single motion to swap the cylinder" makes no sense. It would be much better if you'd use the design (Colt, Remington, etc.) or model (1851 Navy, 1858 New Army, Dragoon, etc.) name instead of the manufacturer name. The statement, "the 1858 New Army had a single motion to swap the cylinder" would make more sense. It's not correct, but at least we'd see the point and be able to respond.

I've not seen any complaining about Dixie on any of the forums I visit, so I can't speak to that.

[pwillie]

Thanks Mykill: I don't think That I am explaining my point very well.I am new to C&B pistols,so please forgive my illusion of what I am talking about.Give me a few monthes,and I will be profiecent in this topic.Just kiddin,your pal, Willie. PS, I will keep you posted,as I will need your help.

[pwillie]

BTW,has anyone heard of a Co. by the name of EMF ? DO they import or MFG their on line of revolvers?

[bigbadgun]

EMF is an importer and I think they import both Uberti and Pietta in both Colt and Remington. Another place you can look is the possible shop.
keep in mind that with the italian repos both Uberti and Pietta make a damn fine revolver. I have pieces made by both. If you are just starting out in cap and ball let me suggest the 1858 remington very nice revolver.
and the remington is what Clint carried in Pale Rider but with the R&D conversion pop the cylinder out and pop in a loaded one. Not a one step process but fast non the less.

[AdmiralB]

His point was the Uberti-Pietta repos had a single motion to swap the cylinder.

Cock to half-cock, drop the loading lever, pull the cylinder pin and rotate the cylinder out, then reverse with new cylinder ain't what I'd call "a single motion". The Pale Rider gun worked exactly the same way, but the gate had a slot that made getting the new cylinder in easier. There's a trick to doing it quickly. Sometimes I can swap a cylinder as quickly as five seconds, sometimes as long as fifteen.

It's not really that much faster than swapping on a Colt-style, if the gun has a wedge that can be pushed out with hand pressure. Only hassle there is, you have to hold the barrel assembly somewhere while you swap.

[pwillie]

Just came back from the gun store,and to my surprise,the Ruger Old Army is a 5 1/2 inch barrel in polished stainless,with pearl like grips,this must be the sheriff model? I have never seen one like this before,and it is new in the box with all the papers,what a find.Willie

[madcratebuilder]

Just came back from the gun store,and to my surprise,the Ruger Old Army is a 5 1/2 inch barrel in polished stainless,with pearl like grips,this must be the sheriff model? I have never seen one like this before,and it is new in the box with all the papers,what a find.Willie

That's a steal at $525, the last few 7.5 ss models brought 650+ on gunbroker, better go buy the puppy, or send me the name of the shop.

It's not really that much faster than swapping on a Colt-style, if the gun has a wedge that can be pushed out with hand pressure. Only hassle there is, you have to hold the barrel assembly somewhere while you swap.

Yes Sir. IF the arbor and frame is properly fit to the barrel assembly, and the wedge is properly fit all you need is thumb pressure to pop the wedge out. A third hand would come in handy:rolleyes:

[WilliamFeldmann]

That really is a find for $525. The short barreled Rugers are rare and you don't see them for sale very often, blued or stainless. Treasure it, you aren't likely to find it a mate, at least not cheap or anytime soon.

The Pale Rider Remington represents the major boon that the design had over the Colts, the quick swap out of cylinders, both in cap and ball and cartridges.

I have seen Rugers that are converted for quick cylinder changes also. The slotted retaining screw is replaced by a knurled headed screw and the loading lever is removed. Sometimes the retaining pin is also replaced. On these models the cylinder swap could be as fast as a Remington Design.

I would love to set my Rugers up with the knurled retaining screw so I don't have to carry the wrench to the range. Anyone know who makes them. I know the pins are Belt Mountain, but can't find replacement screws.

Also, where can I get a third hand like madcratebuilder is talking about. :) I ALWAYS need one of those.

[pwillie]

Madcrate: The shorty is a big surprise find....man,am I lucky....this will not be fired. I am still looking for a Uberti or Ruger in the 1858 Remington.

[WilliamFeldmann]

Ruger and Remington designs are different, in significant ways. They just look similar to an untrained eye at 50 yards.

Why would you not shoot the shorty Ruger? You would have to hold it so long for it to be a collector, its return on investment would be very poor. (sorry that finance degree won't leave me alone)

Guns are made to shoot. Now a special edition with fine engraving and real ivory, or a gun with a distinguished, or unique hisotry, I can see not shooting something like that, but otherwise it will just be a safe queen, and those are the loneliest guns of all. I mean there are guys on here who have original Remingtons or Colts and have shot them. Those are 140 year old guns.

[madcratebuilder]

That Ruger is made to shoot. You could shoot it for years and with the right cleaning regime and a polish job it would look new.

[pwillie]

Guys I just bought a new Ruger with a long barrel,for 400.00,it has the papers and tools as well as the box SST also,I will shoot the new longer barrel gun.Now, I will need powder and shot,and all the help I can get...What a deal!It seems that 400.00 is also a killer price.HAs anyone converted any of their Rugers with the 44 LC ?

[WilliamFeldmann]

Yes several us have done this through the R&D cylinders sold by Taylors or Kirst Cylinders.

There are several threads about the cylinders. Used the search function and type in conversion cylinders and you will get a bunch of threads about the topic.

[pwillie]

I would also like to thank MR. POHILL for his comments about me highjacking the original thread, I thought it was a general discussion about what kind of black powder gun was a good starter model,pardon me for living........Is this guy the site police?

[pohill]

Wow, you sent me a PM and I responded with a PM, and now you go public with it? You are an arrogant little prick.

[mykeal]

Let's keep it civil, gentlemen, please.

[pwillie]

MyKeal:Like any red blooded American,I will protect my territory. I made no offense to anyone,and I was called out about a quote I made referring to another country,that was not named.If this forum is so backward with all the Clintonish trash, I will reserve my post in the future.

[sltm1]

pwillie, pohill's right and you're wrong, private stuff should stay private and public stuff should be tempered with good taste. I'd like to imagine we're all "man" enough to apologize for our mistakes and move on in this forum. If not, you really don't belong here. Is that blunt enough for you?

[pwillie]

SLTM 1: I did not ask for your input either,seeing that you just became a member.Its hard for me to believe that a simple statement like "Fruit Salad Country" is another way of saying "Banana Republic" which is said many times in a day on talk radio,or even TV, late night hacks like Letterman and Leno say much worse stuff. I apooigize if any one on this forum was abused by my statement,but I also would like to know who was ?

[bigbadgun]

I am gonna step up to the plate and request that this thread be returned to the original thread which was WHICH ONE redrock was asking which is the best repo revolver to get started with if im not mistaken. In a perfect world everybody has the same outlook on life and has the same ideas, However we do not live in a perfect world so we must all be able to deal with other peoples ideas no matter how good or bad. If you dont like someones ideas then move on to the next thread. SIMPLE. There is no reason to lash out at someone because there views do not meet your own.
Now to answer redrocks question if you are very new to bp shooting then may I suggest a 1851 Colt Navy steel frame very durable revolver. And if I am not mistaken they are less than $250 at Cabelas. Or you could get one thru the possible shop for I think $179.
I have said my part please have a nice day. :)

[pwillie]

Big Bad: The 1851 Navy,is it all steel or a brass trigger guard? And does Uberti make this model? Thanks,Willie also is the caliber easy to convert,for cartridge use?

[bigbadgun]

The one being sold by The possible shop is all steel except for the grip frame that is brass. Here is the link.
http://possibleshop.com/cap-ball-closeout.htm
Very good revolver I have one and love it. It is made by Pietta.

[sltm1]

pwille, Thanks for the pm, I feel vindicated. Too bad I couldn't post it here to display the full measure of your maturity. By the way, I'm 60 yrs old, fought was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam in the 60's and have been shootin' bp since I was 40. Don't let my newness to the forum fool you. I really liked your "Initialed" goodbye in the pm, too bad you've blocked me from your mail access or I'd reply in kind, only more intelligently. If this post get's me blocked from THR, so be it, I've had it up to my elbow's in piss-ant's over the years and I'm old enough not to have to take the crap from wet behind the ears children anymore!!

[pwillie]

SLTM: I am also sorry,and would like to have met you when you were in the "Seals" 1967-68 Tet offensive,Vietnam.Volunteered for service for country,my great grandfather was at the Battle of Blakely(Last big battle of the civil war) Apr.1865. My son, (Naval Academy) flew in the first gulf war,first air group on the Teddy Roosevelt.I think most people on this forum are true Americans,whether you served are not.Lets hope we never ever have another "Vietnam".

[pwillie]

Big Bad: Thanks for the link,have you seen the Traditions revolvers? Who is Palmetto,I like the Remington style also. I will phone the store.Thanks, WIllie.

[bigbadgun]

Traditions is both Uberti and Pietta I think. I really like the fit and finish of the pietta revolvers just my opinion.

[ArmedBear]

Wow. Bigbadgun.

You ripped me off. Didn't think you were around here any more.

FYI for those who are tempted to order gun leather from this guy: I sent him a money order and never received anything in return. Called and got a BS line about it being lost in the mail (which has never happened to me with any other shipment, since tracking numbers have come into existence). Left messages and sent e-mail, never heard back.

I am a VERY patient and reasonable man, and I made that clear when I did talk to him. That was a mistake, along with sending a money order "to speed things up since out-of-state checks get held for 2 weeks." My mistakes. Too trusting, I was.

Do NOT send money to this guy.

[madcratebuilder]

ArmedBear, I can understand your anger at not receiving what you have paid for, but jumping in to a thread and accusing a fellow board member is not the best way to deal with it.
Was the money order cashed? Have you called bigbadgun and talked to him, his phone #is listed on his web site.
Bigbadgun is a regular poster, he sure isn't hiding out from anyone.
Things do get lost in the mail, not often, but it does happen. bigbad, you should pm armedbaer and try to get things straitened out.

[ArmedBear]

Yes I called him. Yes I e-mailed him. I have been available here. He made no attempt to reply after the initial BS about the package being "lost in the mail."

I hadn't seen him here since then; thought he'd dropped off the map, so I just blew it off until I saw him posting again and advertising.

I don't care if you like it, though. If he's going to advertise in his sig line, that's fair game.

He stole from me, but not in an amount that would be worth traveling across the US to get back.

I'd like to see that he doesn't steal from anyone else.

[arcticap]

Big Bad: Thanks for the link,have you seen the Traditions revolvers? Who is Palmetto,I like the Remington style also. I will phone the store.Thanks, WIllie.

If you look up Palmetto using the search function, you'll find that their revolvers are considered to be the lowest quality of any production gun. They went out of business a while back and who knows if they're back in operation or not.
While some of their revolvers might work, there's not many people who have been posting that they actually shoot them.
The few reports by those who have bought or fired them have been very critical and negative, and they warn others to stay away from their revolvers.

Choosing a worst one is EASY. Palmetto.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=359642&highlight=palmetto

[pwillie]

Artic Cap: Thanks for the news.Willie

[madcratebuilder]

Yes I called him. Yes I e-mailed him. I have been available here. He made no attempt to reply after the initial BS about the package being "lost in the mail."

I hadn't seen him here since then; thought he'd dropped off the map, so I just blew it off until I saw him posting again and advertising.

I don't care if you like it, though. If he's going to advertise in his sig line, that's fair game.

He stole from me, but not in an amount that would be worth traveling across the US to get back.

I'd like to see that he doesn't steal from anyone else.


It sounds like bigbadgun needs to address this. I hope you get a response from him Armedbear. If not, others have been warned.

[bigbadgun]

Hmm let me see where to begin Armed bear yes I did send the holster you ordered and after a while sent you another but I had the wrong address it was also returned to me im sorry if this has hurt you in anyway. The first holster I got back 3 months later I didnt here from you so I figured you finally recieved it. I am willing to send you the holster or send you a money order I sell alot of holsters on this forum so the choice is yours as far as BS its all what ever you think. I have many many customers on this forum and 1 slips thru the cracks and you are labeled a crook hmmm ok what ever. Let me know what you want. It happens but I am also man enough to make amends are you? One more thing Armedbear all you had to do is call me and request a refund that never happened and I dont have your phone number anymore sorry dude but this is going to be settled. Things happen once it is out of my hands and once it is out of my hands its out of my control.

[redrock]

Thanks for all the help gentleman. No I am not new to B/P shooting. I have been shooting Flinters mostly for the past 50 years. I just thought I would try an open top cap gun. I am not up on imported B/P handguns thats where I needed your help thanks much.:)