[chris93473]

I'm just curious to what the Brownie pop is ? Thanks

[Pheonix]

I have read several pages about it and it seems to be a secret. I am not in the loop so I cannot help you.

[El Tejon]

A way to open a knife.

[chris93473]

:confused: :D

[JShirley]

"Use the force".

;)

[Soap]

Ask Mr. Brown himself. He has always struck me as a top notch trainer as well as a very nice gentleman. His website is:

http://www.folders-r-us.org

[chris93473]

since you're telling me to use force i'm assuming you dropping a hint about momentum. That Brownie pop better besome really cool, tactically advanced, fast, efficient, effective, and super defensive way of opening a folder. everyone seems to be telling me that it's somewhat a secret.

[Soap]

It is a "secret" because Robin Brown was gracious enough to tell a few of us. In telling us, he understandably asked us not to tell anyone else. It is a great technique, but the real "secret" is training. Mr. Brown is way above most people in that area, thusly, the "Pop" becomes quite a tool in his hands. In my hands, it is a quick way to open a knife. Once I train more, it will become like putting a fork in my mouth.

[CWL]

Since Brownie posts here often under the handle of "brownie0486", just wait and see if he will answer your question personally.

[Gordon Fink]

There are a number of ways to open a folding knife quickly. I don’t know which of them the “brownie pop” may be, but I doubt it merits super secrecy.

I can open a folder instantly … compared to the seeming eternity of getting it out of my pocket in the first place. :D

~G. Fink

[Soap]

Gordon,

Using Mr. Brown's method, the knife is already open when it clears the pocket. Think of it of as fast as a Wave, without needing the Wave gimmick.

[444]

Brownie was gracious enough to let me in on the secret of the Brownie Pop. I personally think the "wave" is better, but if you don't have the "wave" ............................... Common sense tells me that the wave is faster than any other way to open a knife since it requires nothing but removing the knife from your pocket. There is very little to learn, very little to practice. I am sure there are many people who are very quick with the pop, but it is a technique that take some skill and also takes the right knife to do it. The first knife I tried it with wouldn't work.

I personally don't see how the wave qualifies as a gimmick. I have carried an Emerson for the last year and am totally satisfied with it in every way.

[c_yeager]

Your going to have to take his class to find out. Personally i dont think the 1/2 second that it will shave off opening a quality folder is altogether worth it. But, if a folding knife is your primary form of defense (my condolences) then it may be worth it to you.

[C.R.Sam]

Under some circumstances...
1/2 second can be a lifetime.

Sam

[Gordon Fink]

Using Mr. Brown’s method, the knife is already open when it clears the pocket.

Ah! I see your point. However, opening a knife in your pocket sounds almost as dangerous as having your finger on the trigger while the handgun is still in the holster.

I’m improving my knife draw speed, though. Don’t squeeze pocket clip while drawing …

~G. Fink

[KMKeller]

I think it's Robin's variation of something I was taught when I was a child. It involves gripping the knife tightly, and snapping your wrist in a downward motion to get the blade moving and then abruptly reversing the direction of your hand, rotating your wrist upward to use the blades' momentum to "pendulum" the blade upwards and then again reversing direction to force the blade into the locked position. Done correctly, it can be used to open the knife as it exits the pocket using 3-4 inches of motin and eliminates the necessity of the thumb stud. It is quicker than using the thumbstud, but not as quick as the wave. It also requires practice to get that blade fully locked. If the motion is not dead on, the blade opens half way and requires a separate flip of the wrist to get it locked.

I don't know if this is what Robin does, but again, it's something I was taught long ago. How long, I'm not willing to admit.

[Bruz]

It involves gripping the knife tightly, and snapping your wrist in a downward motion

Good guess but that is not it...the reason I prefer it to the "wave" is that it is just as fast but once mastered you can have it "POP" open as it is going towards (in just one movement) the target instead of away from it as with the "wave". Also, no concern trying to hook on something, and your pants will last allot longer! :neener:

Brownie is a good guy and in all likelyhood will be more than happy to clue you in...I believe he is at the Riddle or probably would of done so already.

[Soap]

Mr. Fink- My statement was a figurative one. To put it in literal terms, the same stroke you use to take the knife out of the pocket is the same stroke which opens the blade.

[Gordon Fink]

But doesn’t that mean the knife is starting to open while still in the pocket?

That still seems potentially dangerous. Of course, we’re talking about dangerous situations, so it’s all relative.

~G. Fink

[Bruz]

But doesn’t that mean the knife is starting to open while still in the pocket?

No sir, Mr. Flory is correct, the knife POPS open after it leaves the pocket...again no worries in getting it hooked to open, or accidently catching on clothing once opened.

[brownie0486]

Good morning folks,

Just got back from the Riddle of Steel in Hells Canyon, Idaho where I met some great people with varying degrees of bladecraft. We were all treated to some of the best defensive knife training from Master at Arms, James keating for 4 days.

There were 38 people there this year from all over and two of the guys were from Switzerland, having been sent there through Fred Perrins connections.

I had the opportunity to demonstrate and instruct in the "pop" to those who wanted to develop the technique for themselves and everyone was brought up to speed on this in person who wanted it during the event.

Some wanted to see it done on their own folders, including a gunting drone which one man had tightened at the pivot so tight you had to use two hands to open it, in an attempt to not be hasstled in NYC with having a gravity knife. I was able to "pop" it on the second try. He then immediately tightened the pivot tighter wanting to avoid the gravity issue so that it then would take three men and a boy to open it.

In another forum, there has been a heated discussion of the "pop" as well, with one member challenging the "pop" as just another inertial opening and not as fast as a waved folder from the pocket.

I had the opportunity to bring him up to speed in this and he now understands and can perform the "pop" adequately, though practice will be the order of the day to develop the speed of presentation. No waved folders or inertial opening techniques were faster than the "pop" who were at the riddle this year which had some major players attending as well as some new to the training in defensive bladecraft.

Many are sceptical and feel, as some have posted here, that it's something thats been seen before. The techique involves no wrist action or downward movement to gain momentum to inertial open a folder.

I have not checked my PM's here yet, give me a few days to recover from the road trip back from Idaho [ I drove out and back from Mass. ] and we can continue this then.

To those who have gained the knowledge of the "pop" through correspondence with me, I thank you all for honoring my request not to post the "pop" openly on the forums as asked. It's not a secret, I have shown and instructed in this technique for years to others. The Riddlers all got to play with it if they wanted to last week and everyone was broguht up to speed on this. I have asked those who have been given the knowledge not to post openly on the forums.

There are many sceptics on the forums. I can tell you that the sceptics at the Riddle were convinced, once they saw the "pop", that it is the fastest they have seen at deploying a folder, including the waved types.

Back to bed for me, the trip was long [ 5800 miles ].

Brownie

[TheeBadOne]

Get some sleep (at least somone should, heck I would if I could ;) ).

[brownie0486]

TheeBadOne:

Got the PM, you'll have incoming within 48 hrs.

Brownie

[Gordon Fink]

No waved folders or inertial opening techniques were faster than the “pop” …

Isn’t the difference here only quarters or tenths of seconds?

Also, out of curiosity, why is the “pop” something of a secret?

For the record, I don’t doubt the technique, though I do question the apparent need for secrecy. I doubt it will make anyone not already a dedicated knife practitioner into a killer knife fighter. :D

~G. Fink

[brownie0486]

Gordon Fink:

Let me explain.

I would not wish the technique to be published on an open forum where everyone in the world may have at it. As a retired LEO, my concern is someone using it against fellow officers on the streets. Not that someone could not get it by PM to me but on another forum of 8K members, only 280 asked for the instructions. Thats a lot better than 8K unknowns having it and then sharing it with whoever. It's no secret, just something I don't want published openly on the boards.

All my students get it, as well, Riddlers in the canyon got to develop this this year who wanted it.

As in everything in life, you may never need to deploy that fast, or at least faster than another technique. It's the same thing with guns, you practice your presentation for speed and accuracy. You practice here as well as it becomes another trick in the bag you may call upon if need be. If you ever have to call upon you folder to defend, you may likely not have time to waste. Then the 1/4 or 1/2 second you gain here will make all the difference initially as to whether you get it out or are attempting to when you are nailed.

Does that make any sense? Shooters practice for speed of presentation. If speed were not paramount to regain the time by the aggressor starting first, gun players would not be so inclined to practice as well.

Brownie

[Gordon Fink]

I suspected that might be your reason. Thanks for the answer.

~G. Fink

[ACP]

Having been fortunate enough to take a class with Robin at the S&W Academy I'll tell you I've seen it and it works. I believe Robin carries two 3" or so folders, doesn't like thumb studs, and will loosen the pivot pin on folders to some degree (RB - please correct me if I'm wrong.) The draw action is something you either have to see and practice or have Robin explain. To me, it looked like he was an old West sixgun fighter -- elbows a bit akimbo on the draw, and he brought his hands up fairly high towards the armpits, as I recall.

[Gordon Fink]

Sounds somewhat familiar … Is this with a point-down knife?

~G. Fink

[brownie0486]

It works best for me with tip down carry but tip up is just as fast when you have it down [ I do ], and though somewhat more complex on the "move" it only requires a little more practice than tip down. People who prefer tip up carry usually have stated it is easier to open them with the bells and whistles attached on most folders to assist in a speedier opening, without the crutches you have many more options available to you in model, design, and configuration. That may be important one day when you need a knife and another hands you something you are not familiar with.

ACP:
Good memory sir.
Thanks for kicking in here, you are one of many who has seen and been shown the way of the "pop" so your input is invaluable here.
We had a good time during the class didn't we?
I like the analogy of the old west sixgunner, it fits now that you put it into that persepective. Then again, I have always had the inkling I lived a previous life in that time frame.

I'm still enamored with the mid size folders, but have been known to carry the Military model more often lately. When you trained under me at S+W I was carrying an Elishewitz 3" custom righthanded linerlock on the left side and a custom Galbreath in 3 1/2" blade length. Most could not tell the left hand was accessing a right handed knife as the speed was identical due to practice.

I haven't loosened pivots unless unnecessarily tight when new. I will tighten the pivots until there is no blade play open or closed, then loctite them down at that point. The same tension can be obtained by working over a period of time breaking it in, by why waste the time when they can be adjusted.

To put that into perspective, at the Riddle last week, a NYC boy had tightened the pivot to the point it took two hands to open it. I "popped" the knife on the second attempt, he had to tighten it further after being discusted with my being able to open it without using the studs, holes, disks or any of the other assists put on folders to help deploy them normally.

It uses gross motor skills, the knife is secure in the hand from the time you grab it, and with the tip up knives only requires a small hand adjust to be comfortable, yet it is not necessary if you did not have the time to do so under stress of attack.

There were skeptics from the Riddle as well, some were known to be players with much skills levels under their belt. When they saw it, they knew what they had seen worked, and real fast, they have changed their minds for the most part.

Stay safe out there.

Brownie