baretta 9mm or 1911?


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abominableSnowman
March 17, 2009, 05:58 PM
for a forest survival kit. which one and why?

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highorder
March 17, 2009, 06:00 PM
Beretta. (Proper noun, proper spelling.)

Having said that, where is your forest? Minnesota? Georgia?

abominableSnowman
March 17, 2009, 06:07 PM
NW US, Canada

Sand Rat
March 17, 2009, 06:20 PM
Beretta mainly because of the high cap mag and in my experience, the 92FS will eat ANY ammo you feed it. Simple to disassemble in the field and shoots great.

FYI- 1911 is not just the name, but the actual year these guns were adopted by the Army. They were actually designed in the late 1890's. While I really enjoy shooting them and one day hope to own a Kimber .45 Ultra Carry, technology and design has changed quite a bit since their introduction.

Average Joe
March 17, 2009, 06:28 PM
Beretta

gotime242
March 17, 2009, 06:37 PM
Yeah... only because you mentioned "forest survival kit"...i would say 92fs as well.

pingpong
March 17, 2009, 07:35 PM
"forest survival" ? I would have a Buckmark .22, but of the two I like Beretta 92s. I've always been fond of the 45auto though so I can't imagine you'd be in trouble either way. And didn't the US Army have special survival shot cartridges made for their 1911's during WWII? Hmmmm

10-Ring
March 17, 2009, 07:52 PM
You know, when day hiking, I throw my G19 in my pack -- that said -- I like the added capacity of the Beretta in this case

SHOOT1SAM
March 17, 2009, 10:39 PM
For the forests of the US Northwest, and given your parameters, I'd choose a 1911 in 10mm. Two-legged threats, black bears, mountain lions, deer & other game are all fair game to a 10mm cartridge. Grizzlys-if I had to use a handgun for defense against one, I'd much rather have a 10mm than a 9mm.

In Canada? Unless you're talking about unintentionally traipsing over the border while in the middle of the forest, I'll assume that you're kidding, right?

Sam

benderx4
March 18, 2009, 09:28 AM
Forest-survival? I'd say neither. As much as I like the Beretta, I'd want something a bit bigger for things that go bump in the night.
How about a Colt Delta Elite in 10mm?

Quack
March 18, 2009, 11:37 AM
10mm 1911

metallic
March 18, 2009, 11:56 AM
How about a decent rifle instead? Just a thought.

JImbothefiveth
March 18, 2009, 12:04 PM
I would actually pick a glock 10mm. If you need to defend yourself from dangerous animals, a magnum revolver. If you are a Canadian, you might be able to get a permit that will let you carry one for defense against animals.

If the Beretta is easier to maintain than the 1911, I'd pick that .

MDW GUNS
March 18, 2009, 01:33 PM
I thought you can't carry (even in the wood) handguns in CAN??
Beside, I would take a quality 1911 for the better caliber.

Duke of Doubt
March 18, 2009, 01:37 PM
Beretta. I carry my 92FS in the woods a lot. I love my 1911A1, but it's a den gun and a range gun, not a carry gun. Fifteen rounds means you don't have to carry extra magazines.

DesmoDucRob
March 18, 2009, 01:42 PM
Beretta (tomcat). My forest threats generally consist of nutria chewing up my duck blind.

Deanimator
March 18, 2009, 01:56 PM
Personally, the M1911.

I don't like the Beretta.
Trigger reach is too long for me.
I don't like DA/SA autos.
It's WAY too big for the caliber.

amd6547
March 18, 2009, 01:58 PM
I am so sick of hearing that the Beretta is "way too big"...It is a full-sized service pistol.

mljdeckard
March 18, 2009, 02:48 PM
It is way too big for the caliber, and the frame was designed in a way that it can't be adapted for a .45 or 10mm. It is the bulkiest auto I can think of.

When I joined the army, I had a neutral opinion, but over time, I like the Beretta less and less, and the 1911 more and more. I don't carry extra magazines for more rounds, I carry them to clear a stoppage, which is something you should plan for with any auto, in any caliber, with any capacity. In the woods, I will usually have the .22 kit on my Kimber frame.

I will second what others have suggested, that a pistol is what you use to fight your way back to the long gun you never should have put down in the first place. I usually take my SKS.

PhiloebeddoUSA
March 18, 2009, 02:53 PM
I own 'em both. I hate to pick the "other" option, but I will.

Either of those (9 or .45) would work on a smaller threat, but if you came across (or he came across you) a Grizzly (my fear if I was in that territory) I don't think either would quell the issue. It would require a magnum round in at least .357 but preferrably .44 or above. This would be for the penetration issue. That's revolver country (I know this is an auto board).

My choice for a mountain gun would be a big caliber revolver.

(If not an option I would go for the faster moving, deeper penetration of the 9. It also offers more capacity as mentioned by others.)

OregonJohnny
March 18, 2009, 03:40 PM
Forest survival and forest protection are 2 very different things, but not necessarily unrelated. I don't claim to be an expert on either topic, but I've thought about it quite a bit.

Survival in the wild should include hunting for food (most likely small game), signaling for help, protection from predators (4-legged and 2-legged) and possibly even emergency fire starting (using a cartidge with the bullet pulled out then crimped). It should be light enough to carry around for a day or a year, depending on how long you have to survive. It should be very rugged, simple and strong, not prone to malfunctions or breakages, and preferably stainless. No handgun meets all these criteria, but a single-action .22 revolver comes close in all but protection from large dangerous animals.

In a handgun, for protection only, in the NW wilds, I would carry at least a .357 Magnum revolver, or a .44 Magnum or .45 Long Colt, whichever I shot better.

I don't think either the Beretta 92 or the 1911 are particularly good choices for wilderness survival, or for protection from anything larger or more dangerous than other people. I own and love both but would choose a .44 Magnum for forest protection, and a .22 for survival.

JImbothefiveth
March 18, 2009, 03:44 PM
Are you in Canada or the U.S.A?
In Canada, you should probably only use rifles. Handgun hunting is againt the law there.

Duke of Doubt
March 18, 2009, 03:51 PM
OregonJohnny: "I don't think either the Beretta 92 or the 1911 are particularly good choices for wilderness survival, or for protection from anything larger or more dangerous than other people."

That is location-dependent; the people I happen to run across in the Maine woods tend to be a lot more stranger-danger than the four-footed critters.

No handgun in the world will stop a moose; your only defense if you tick off a rutting moose is to run for your life, climb a stout tree and settle in for a long night. The black bear are pretty small and peaceful. They are, however, rather quiet, so it is possible to surprise one. Cougars are out there, but few and quiet. The coyote wait for you to get lost and die. The wolves -- well, I've never actually yet met one in the Maine woods, and I strongly suspect a lot of wolf sightings are actually feral dogs, but a Beretta 92FS ought to drop a wolf. I hope.

Now as to people, you'll find lots of technically homeless seasonal loggers, plenty of stoned campers, a few illegal growers, and the occasional outta state body dumper (ever see Miller's Crossing? That's an actual southern Maine town, by the way, just off old Route 1). Beretta 92FS will deal handily with any, though I'd feel even better with a rifle, the carry of which, however, brings with it certain hunting law implications.

makarovnik
March 18, 2009, 06:19 PM
I love the 1911 platform and the .45acp but... I would pick the Beretta because of the capacity and penetration. I have had a few 1911's and believe it or slurp it the only one that didn't jamb all the time was my Llama. It had other problems though.

1911shooter
March 18, 2009, 07:44 PM
Neither in Canada, but if i had to the 1911 would be the way to go. in 10mm. theres a reason its been around for 97yrs and still the primere combat pistol on the planet.

BlindJustice
March 18, 2009, 08:56 PM
For the record The Beretta 92FS evolved from the Beretta 1951
"Brigadier," that was used by the Italian MIlitary. The Lockup of these Berreta models is based on the lockup of the Walther P38 - no other
semi-autos in wide use use this lockup.

A "1911" is a generic term used to identiry the pistols built by Colt and a host of other companies for the civilian or LEO market based on the desing
by John M Browning that was adopted by the US Military as the M1911 in
M1911 and later modified mimimally as the M1811A1 in 1925. They are stamped "Property of the US Goverment." Colt's civilian model of the "1911"
is trademarked as the "Goverment Model."

Given the two choices, a "1911" and assuming you meant one chambered in .45 ACP IMO offers more versatility in that:
* Plenty of makes offer models in Stainless Steel
and top qulaity adjustable sights.
* .45 +P with quality bullets will do the jogb against
Cougars or get a deer for venison if the user can satlk or take
a stand for a shot within reasonable distance 60 yards Mas.
* Accurate .22 conversion kits are available.

10mm Auto riases the bar power wise, given the right loads
and availablity.- Colt Delta Eltie was supposed to be back in production but I
haven't heard. Dan Wesson makes the Razorback 10mm Auto. I have a Bar Sto drop in barrel for my S&W 1911, Stainless, the .400 CB is a necked to
.40 (10mm) cal. .45 ACP case and can come close to 10MM auto
velocities up to bullet weights of 165 grains. I keep .400 CorBon
155 gr. Hornady XTP JHPs (@ 1350 FPS ) in stock

And yes I live in the Pacific NW, I'd recommend Bear spray for Black Bear
and hope I would have a heavy calibber long gun for Gizzly.

US Citizens can't bring handguns into Candada even if they are up north
hunitng. FWIW.

Randall

DRM
March 18, 2009, 09:23 PM
Neither are perfect, would probably agree that a good .22 may be the best option. That said, I'd pick the Beretta based on solid name/reputation, durability, availability of parts and mags, and you can carry twice as much ammo for the same weight....an important aspect of survival in the wild.

BlindJustice
March 18, 2009, 09:44 PM
The 1911 with the .22 LR Conversion kit adds a small game getter
and a whole lot more ammo versus weight. 1911 parts availability
in comparison to the Beretta? That's no contest SNork you're kidding? =

weisse52
March 18, 2009, 11:45 PM
1911, because I like the .45 ACP. Not sure how the capacity issue really comes into play for your purpose. In the end it is what fits you best.

And a Colt is always the right answer!

GLI45
March 19, 2009, 01:18 AM
I'm a 1911 junkie, but I also own a 92fs. The Beretta would be my choice for an outdoor/potentially harsh environment because it was designed for field conditions for the military. They are reliable and very forgiving when it comes to dirty conditions. I have joked that I think I could drag my Beretta through the mud and run over it with a 4 wheeler and it would still shoot. The tolererences on my 1911's are too tight for that kind of environment.

alistaire
March 19, 2009, 11:06 AM
FYI- 1911 is not just the name, but the actual year these guns were adopted by the Army. They were actually designed in the late 1890's. While I really enjoy shooting them and one day hope to own a Kimber .45 Ultra Carry, technology and design has changed quite a bit since their introduction.

The final development of the 1911 was in 1910/1911. What new technology is there? 1) polymer& alloy frames 2) night sights 3) hollow point bullets. All of these are available for the 1911. The laws of physics have not changed.

gmh1013
March 19, 2009, 02:16 PM
Neither.
.357 6inch Ruger or Blackhawk

BlindJustice
March 19, 2009, 03:28 PM
On the 1911, Alistairie & all, one of the tipping factors in the JM Browning design being chosen & adopted over the Savage ( after DWM withdrew the Luger ) was the fact that Colt had made the decision
to put it into production - 1911s that were tested had parts
interchangeability whereas the Savage pistols were all hand built.
the M1911 was a redesign of the 1905 model which had barrel links
fore and aft. THe 1905 .45 evolved from the 1902 which was chambered for
.38 ACP.

The 1911 basic design features has been copied for other pistols more than any other and is the most cloned of all time.
A versatile platform that has been adopted for more chamberings than most other designs.

Of course the O.P. never clarified did he? as to what he means by Forest Survival, Woodsmanship or Post apocalypitc fantasy?
R-

Dan Crocker
March 19, 2009, 03:33 PM
Posted by Duke of Doubt: Beretta. I carry my 92FS in the woods a lot. I love my 1911A1, but it's a den gun and a range gun, not a carry gun. Fifteen rounds means you don't have to carry extra magazines.

I always carry an extra magazine. Never know when the one you've got may fail...

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