[shooter429]

But I cannot find cans of black powder anywhere. Is the Pyrodex as good? Why not get a bunch of ffg Goex? Where? I figure the real stuff is the best. Is that so?

Shooter429

[mykeal]

Is the Pyrodex as good?
It will do, rather nicely.
Why not get a bunch of ffg Goex?
I don't know. Why not?
Where?
http://www.jackspowderkeg.com
http://www.powderinc.com
http://www.mainepowderhouse.com
http:/www.blackpowderva.com
http://www.trackofthewolf.com
http://www.grafs.com
http://www.cainsoutdoor.com
Just to name a few.
I figure the real stuff is the best. Is that so?
Yes. Depending.

[Guvnor]

I have a precussion hawken in .50 cal. In my opinion the real stuff works best in traditional sidelock guns such as these. I would call all the local gun stores and ask around for it. I have to drive an hour away to buy the real stuff.

I have not tried pyrodex, but my gun was very finicky with triple seven so I switched to real black. Dirtier yes, but most reliable for me.

[ArmedBear]

Pyrodex works perfectly well in that gun (assuming it's percussion -- Pyrodex generally isn't for flintlocks). Don't let anyone tell you differently. Pyrodex has been around for decades, and has never had the problems with finicky guns that Triple 7 does. I've had a T/C Hawken for almost 30 years, and it's never seen anything by Pyrodex.

Pyrodex is much easier to find than BP, because it's not legally classified as an explosive (Black Powder is). Therefore, it's much cheaper and easier for a store to stock Pyrodex.

Nothing wrong with BP, and I've certainly used it, but frankly I wouldn't sweat it. If you have a percussion gun, you'll never know the difference between Pyrodex and BP.

[srm970]

i use pyrodex in all my rifles but one.. and that is the flintlock.. it is a 100 mile round trip to get real black powder. while pyrodex is a half a mile away. all my guns are sidelocks .. from .32 to .58 cal.. and the only thing i did was to change all the nipples to hotshot . personaly i think it is just as messy as the real black .. and you deffinatly have to clean it right after shooting.. as it will draw moister and start rusting.. if you try and order black poweder.. you may have to order a min quantity. and pay a hazmat fee..

shawn

[shooter429]

Okay, I get a 50/50 split on what to use, so I will go with my instinkt and search the ends of the earth for some real ffg. Second thing, the carbine I am looking at is a Cabela's gun. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0006380210009a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=Hawken+Carbine&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1
Are they worthy of consideration? It comes with a starter kit for ~500. I was thinking since I am giving up velocity, I want a bigger bore. How many of you shoot the .54s with patched balls. I plan on a maximum distance with a carbine of 50 yards. Will ball work at that distance or do I need to go conical?

Thanks for all the help in my new adventure in shooting.

Shooter429

[srm970]

good god have those things gone up in price. i picked up two of them at a gun shop in MN about 3 years ago for 150.00 per gun.. they were not labled cabelas.. but were the same rifle . made by investarms.. one was a .54.. and the other was a .58.. i didnt realize they were 1 in 48 twist. so have never tried a round ball out of them. only conicals.. and they both shoot great with those rounds.. i sold the .54 to a budy and he loves it for hunting elk in the heavy timber in colorado.. its nice with the sling mounts. and the light weight. although it tends to kick a bit more.. LOL . 525 grain chunk of lead with that .58. backed by 80 grains of pyrodex RS.. i tried to sell it at a few of the gunshows here.. for 200.. no takers. . so i picked up a full sized .50 barrel for it.. so i have a spare .50 for when friends want to go shooting with me. ..

shawn.

[srm970]

ok.. i just took a closer look at the carbines.. from cabelas. they are a fast twist barrel.. 1 in 24 twist rate.. and probably wont shoot round ball very well.. so with the carbine you will be prety much shooting conicals out of it.. i tried sabots a couple times.. and found them very hard to load.. and no better acuracy than the conicals.. and out here in colorado there is no reason for them anyway.. you are not alowed to hunt with the sabots.

shawn
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=SEARCH_all&id=0006380210011a&navCount=3&podId=0006380&parentId=&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=XJ&rid=&parentType=&indexId=cat601141&hasJS=true

[mykeal]

1 in 24 twist rate
Huh? The ad from the link says:
Twist is 1 in 48"
Which is a compromise twist and should work very well with patched round balls at ranges up to about 75 yards, even 100 yards with lighter loads.

[srm970]

its a bad add.. look at the link i posted.. that is for the actual gun .. not the ad with the starter kit. the 1 in 48 is for the full length rifle.. not the carbine.



shawn

[arcticap]

Mid South supply carries similar Lyman/Investarms models in .54.
They're less expensive because they don't have double target triggers. They may even come with 2 sight blades but since I'm not sure inquire first if interested. But they certainly don't come with the deluxe adjustable sights that the Cabela's models have.
However both Lyman and Williams sell some replacement fiber optic and adjustable sights, or Cabela's might even sell replacements for their own adjustable sights.

Lyman Trade Rifle with 28" barrel/1 in 48":

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156032126

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/trade-rifle.php

http://www.lymanproducts.com/includes/img/lyman/muzzle-loaders/ml_tr.jpg

Lyman Deerstalker with 24" barrel/1 in 48":

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156033141

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/deerstalker-rifle.php


http://www.lymanproducts.com/includes/img/lyman/muzzle-loaders/ml_ds.jpg

Lyman sights for Lyman/Cabela's/Investarms rifles:

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/sights.php

Williams Fire sights for Cabela's Octagon Hawken:

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/muzzle.htm

http://www.williamsgunsight.com/gunsights/images/66653octmuzzldrset.jpg

[shoey]

I have the Lyman Trade Rifle in .54. I use Triple Seven powder, not pellets, and was having all kinds of ignition problems from the percussion caps. Tried a new nipple no luck.

Since I was getting fantastic results accuracy wise from the 777, I switched to a musket nipple and musket caps. Not a hitch since.

The load I've settled on is 95 gr of 777 under a 425 gr roundnose/hollowbase bullet from Buffalo Bullets. It also shoots the 425 gr solids from dixie quite well, and they are much cheaper for practice and range time.

That load is a shoulder punisher though! I'm going to work up a lighter load for practice....

The trade rifle did come with an elevation adjustable rear sight. I was lucky when I installed it, it was nearly spot on windage-wise and didnt need adjustment.

[arcticap]

Was the "new" nipple a Red Hot or a Spit Fire after market nipple?
Was the 777 fffg or the ffg?
If it was just another factory nipple I could understand that it didn't perform any better with the 777.
But usually the Red Hot nipple solves the poor ignition problems that are associated with the substitute powders.
It's good to hear that the musket caps & nipple cured the 777 problem. :)

Red Hot nipple:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0012627210270a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=18&Ntk=Products&QueryText=nipple&sort=all&Go.y=8&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=22&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

Spit Fire nipple:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0012627210268a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=nipple&sort=all&Go.y=8&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=22&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

[shoey]

I believe it was the SpitFire nipple from Cabelas. It worked well when I was working up my load (I got the gun for an Idaho elk hunt this past fall), but heres the story.

We loaded up the guns and then had no seccess during the week of hunting. While the guns were kept dry, there was moisutre in the air overnight. Anyway, when we went to fire off the load before driving back home (to WI) neither my dads nor my gun fired. Figured the powder had absorbed some moisture.

Got home, bought a pullet puller, dumped the load, cleaned the gun thoroughly. Dads fired, mine didnt. Went home, cleaned mine again, made sure all was well, went out, and voila, it worked.

Now fast forward a month and a half to gun deer season. Gun had worked well, was recleaned and I took it out again. Saw a deer an hour into hunting. Brought up the gun and *snap*.....no ignition. Needless to say, I was a bit angry.

Couldnt find my bullet puller, so that load stayed in the gun for about 2 weeks till I had a chance to get the musket cap and nipple. Put in the musket nipple, took it out, and it lit off that old charge even. Only about 2/3 of it ignited. Cleaned the barrel, ran about 5 more shots without a hitch in COLD weather. Took it out a couple days later and same thing, no problems at all. I feel confident I solved the problem.

[higene]

Check out the prices

http://www.dnrsports.com/acatalog/D___R_Catalog_Lyman_Muzzleloaders_649.html

Higene