Need Help with a Social Situation


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zeebo419
March 19, 2009, 03:04 AM
So this is my first thread at THR, so if this has been covered in another thread or is in the incorrect category please direct me. Anyway, I'm a 24 year grad student and live with my brother (an undergrad) and another roommate (also an undergrad). We are all good friends and generally get along, in fact we often go shooting together. We live in a pretty rough part of town and for that reason I have always kept my 12 ga Mossberg 500 in my closet, loaded but not chambered, safety ON. Yesterday, almost out of the blue, my roommate starts berating me about how irresponsible it is to keep a gun loaded in the house. He also has a shotgun he keeps his unloaded with a cable lock and separate from his ammo. I try to explain my point of view that since there are no children in the house (only adults with ample experience with firearms) its not unreasonable to keep my shotgun loaded. I also argue that when the BG's break in I don't want to be fooling with cable locks, and trying to locate ammo etc. Anyway, this got me wondering how others keep their firearms and maybe some advice on how to deal with my roommate. Thanks in advance for any posts!

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zeebo419
March 19, 2009, 03:07 AM
Oh and just some additional info, we live in a house (not on campus or an apartment or anything)

ThrottleJockey
March 19, 2009, 03:19 AM
This argument seems to be as old as time itself. There is no correct answer. No one answer for every person. It is a matter of personal preference. I for one feel that an unloaded gun is useless. Specifically useless for defense, as when a situation arises, it needs to be dealt with 5 minutes ago, not 5 minutes from now. I suspect your roommate sees guns in a different light. Like maybe he thinks they are "toys" and need to be "put away" when not in direct use. Where you view them more like an insurance policy, or utensil/tool.

TRGRHPY
March 19, 2009, 03:23 AM
Since the guns are not locked in a safe or cabinet, it doesn't really matter if there is a cable lock on it or not, a thief will still take it and use it. The only issue I would have with an unlocked gun would be this: if you have parties or lots of people over, I would want to make very sure that it was not accessible to others while they are there. Other than that, I don't see an issue. Maybe you should clarify with him what his exact issue is with it. I don't even have an issue with a shell being chambered with the safety on.

okespe04
March 19, 2009, 03:25 AM
I don't like leaving unsecured firearms in my house when I am gone. BG breaks in looking to steal your stereo and finds a loaded shotgun. You or your roommate meander in during the process and find a BG with HIS brand new loaded 12 gauge! Yikes. Leaving a loaded, assessable weapon in the house when you are there is fine. I would suggest securing it when you leave though.

frogomatic
March 19, 2009, 03:29 AM
I have a theory...

If you find yourself in a situation where you need a gun...you're in a situation where you need a LOADED gun.

I keep at least two guns (a shotgun and a 1911) loaded and chambered in my house at all times. When I leave, the 1911 goes with me, and the Shotgun gets locked in it's case.

okespe04
March 19, 2009, 03:30 AM
I keep at least two guns (a shotgun and a 1911) loaded and chambered in my house at all times. When I leave, the 1911 goes with me, and the Shotgun gets locked in it's case.

Exactly

zeebo419
March 19, 2009, 03:42 AM
quote :
BG breaks in looking to steal your stereo and finds a loaded shotgun. You or your roommate meander in during the process and find a BG with HIS brand new loaded 12 gauge! Yikes.

Wow fast responses already! Thanks for yall's advice. I do typically lock the shotgun up in its case before i go out to work school etc., but the situation bluntly illustrated above will certainly make me more conscious about it. thanks again!

foghornl
March 19, 2009, 12:13 PM
Try this simulation with your 'roomie'

Have him stretch out, as though in bed, his shotgun/ammo as he normally has it stored overnight.

Make a loud sound such as yelling "Breaking Glass!", etc. Walk toward roomies location. Have him find keys, get gun & ammo, remove lock, load up with snap caps DO NOT USE LIVE AMMO HERE! and chamber a SNAP CAP.
If you can reach him, and maybe smack him a couple of times BEFORE he can get his 'safely stored' shotgun (read as "disabled, only slightly more useful than an 8-iron") ready to use.....Maybe...just maybe the pilot light will flicker a bit brighter.

Hungry Seagull
March 19, 2009, 12:22 PM
I ran that drill with wife. I "died" while hunting for key to the lock on the gun itself with box of snapcaps (Aka Ammo) conviently set nearby for the BG to collect and use on rest of house. Took 14 seconds total.

My mental to do list from wife banging on front door was:

Huh?
Breakin:
Guncase
Gunammo
Gunlock. OMG the key key...

Wife: "Bang yer dead."

Oh that red telephone next to the night table? never touched. 911 never would have had a clue.

Now I am a rack away with the handgun loaded clips with golddots and both shotties have some in the tube ready to go. Maybe 4 seconds of the 14 is all it takes, if that.

The total list on mind is three things.

Verbal challenge. Spouse goes to alamo dives in, bunkers down, arms up and calls 911 celluar
I become the hunter if there is no proper counter challenge presented.
Ensuring the hallway to the alamo is secured.

When it is all over, if I die, then the spouse will be "It" anything or anyone other than LEO through that door will get a surprise.

When the house is empty, everything is unloaded and secured. A pain I know, but a necessary one.

Deanimator
March 19, 2009, 12:40 PM
I live alone in an apartment. I carry every day. When I come home, the gun I carried that day becomes my home defense gun. The rest of my guns stay in a safe, unloaded.

DHJenkins
March 19, 2009, 01:05 PM
I think your roomate found a chick that doesn't like guns.

maksim
March 19, 2009, 01:08 PM
If you have seperate rooms, does your room lock? Lock your room and problem solved.

Hungry Seagull
March 19, 2009, 01:11 PM
No the problem is not solved.

If BG gains access into the space and there are two inside, one with ready to go gun and the other not so ready....

It's going to get complicated in a hurry. You need to form a team, be of one mind, one stragety. Not a divided house.

OregonJohnny
March 19, 2009, 01:36 PM
You can find a Stack On gun cabinet for less than $100. It's made of fairly sturdy steel and has bolt holes in the back so you can bolt it to a wall. It definitely will not stop a thief with a couple sturdy tools and 5 minutes on his hands, but it will give your roommate a little piece of mind and will keep your shotgun inaccessible to someone in a quick "smash-n-grab" or when you have guests over. But you keep a key on your keychain and it takes about 5 seconds to unlock, and pull out a loaded shotgun. Then you have your shotgun ready to go when you are at home, but lock it away right before you leave the house. It doubles as a secure place to store anything else you don't want to disappear.

Eyesac
March 19, 2009, 01:40 PM
I don't know where you live, but in my opinion, the only safe way to have a gun is to wear it. There are pros and cons of keeping a loaded gun in your house where you are not in control of it at all times, but I'd be willing to deal w/ the risks... or just get a CCW and forget it.

mcwjr13
March 19, 2009, 01:46 PM
If it truly was "out of the blue" I would ask him what he was doing in my closet and why he was handling my firearms without my permission.

Gamera
March 19, 2009, 01:51 PM
Keeping an unloaded gun for home defense is like keeping an unloaded fire extinguisher for house fires.

BBQLS1
March 19, 2009, 02:03 PM
A unloaded locked away gun is not much use when you need it.

A locked gun won't keep it from being stolen. IMO, for a no kids situation, this is why a gun should be secured.

IMO, the best solution is to get a stack on cab and just unlock it when you are at home. Make sure to secure the cabinet to the inside of a closet wall preferably in the corner where it's difficult to use a prybar on it.

If that's not an option at the moment, I'd probably keep it like the OP is. Of course, this is barring the team work issue currently in the home.

Carlos Cabeza
March 19, 2009, 02:46 PM
New Room mate.:cool:

If that is too easy then tell him to MYOB ! ;)

I have to say as long as your friends or partying buds aren't playing with it, secret agent man style or whatever, and respecting your private space, it won't go off by itself. :)

PhiloebeddoUSA
March 19, 2009, 02:56 PM
I agree with foghorn on this one.

See how long it takes to unlock a long gun and then find your shells and get ready. Your in trouble.

I also agree with mcwjr13. What is he doing in your closet? Don't change your comfort level for someone else's. Respectfully disagree with him and start looking for a new place. Make sure he doesn't go near your Mossy again. Worse case scenario would be that a BG comes in and you go for your 500 only to find that your roomie ejected all of your shells.

Best of luck

Delaware_Dan
March 19, 2009, 03:00 PM
Having access to a loaded firearm when you are home is perfectly reasonable. Leaving a loaded shotgun laying around when you are not home, is just irresponsible. Try to show him the difference.

As far as storing your shot gun in a case, well I would call that out of line. Anyone can break in and steal the case and walk right out with it. I would invest in a safe and bolt it down. Or at least a bolted down gun cabinet. The idea is that someone would need a friend and a handtruck to steal any of your firearms.

JImbothefiveth
March 19, 2009, 03:04 PM
Make a loud sound such as yelling "Breaking Glass!", etc. Walk toward roomies location. Have him find keys, get gun & ammo, remove lock, load up with snap caps DO NOT USE LIVE AMMO HERE! and chamber a SNAP CAP.
And don't have him point it at you either. Just have him chamber a round.

I think the best method is, if it's not illegal, to carry a handgun on you in your house.

TRGRHPY
March 19, 2009, 04:11 PM
I find that after reading some of the posts, that it is odd from a psych standpoint, that the person who has taken on the role of "protector" is now the one on defense in this scenario. It's also one that we as gunowners often find ourselves in, that of having to play defense to "peaceloving" antigunners attacks.

mgkdrgn
March 19, 2009, 11:04 PM
An unloaded gun isn't an SD tool ... it's a paperweight, and not a particularly good one.

My 870 and my Glock are stored the same way; loaded mag, but nothing in the pipe. I want to be lucid and awake enough to chamber a round before I plug an intruder. If they stick around long enough for me to do that, oh well, their bad.

Grassman
March 19, 2009, 11:24 PM
I think something is being overlooked here, do you pay 1/3 the rent? If yes,then problem solved, keep your gun loaded in YOUR room.

Hungry Seagull
March 19, 2009, 11:30 PM
Well. Let's see. BG breaks into apartment. By pure chance gets to the weapon or catches one roommate alone totally with no way to arm up.

Untenable.

I would be packing my bags and moving into a place of my own if it was me.

But I am a homeowner and my wife and I are as one should something happen. No ifs, buts or perhaps. If something happens I know she is going to be doing this, that and these while she knows Im doing my list as part of the overall response.

Neither one of us will be standing about unable to do anything, at worst the BG will fight two seperate battles with me and spouse. At best, he will have one gun coming from one angle and the other from another angle. He might get one of us or maybe both... but he aint getting out unhurt.

I recall from my apartment living, it's extremely close quarters with a great danger of all involved getting hurt. We lived in a concrete building that shells each unit in solid reinforced concrete. I can only imagine the butchering that will happen in such a box smaller than the room Im typing on this computer. At least in my home (Paid off free and clear thank you...) We have a fighting chance.

wep45
March 20, 2009, 01:39 AM
do what ever you want............set your room mate on fire.........problem solved:evil:

whitefeather
March 20, 2009, 10:39 AM
Most AD's occur because someone mis-handles a firearm not knowing it's loaded.

Try this:

Continue to store your shotgun loaded (either with a chambered round/ safety on OR unchambered)...... But, put a VISIBLE IDENTIFIER on the gun that clearly shows that it's loaded.

I suggest some of the yellow "caution" tape. You could tie some around the barrel or tie a small piece on the trigger guard.

test drive
March 20, 2009, 11:50 AM
If you pay half the rent and bills, tell him to get bent.:evil:

GaSheepDog
March 20, 2009, 10:02 PM
Out of sight, out of mind (http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20071011/back-up-bed-rifle-rack/). Problem solved.

MaterDei
March 21, 2009, 12:01 AM
Try one of these...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=57112

zeebo419
March 22, 2009, 02:53 PM
Wow guys, thanks so much for all the responses. I'm particularly interested in that Mossberg Loc-Box, but i can't seem to find it on CTD or other websites, as I think that the Loc-Box would def be more secure than my dinky little lockable case. I feel better about my roommate situation, hopefully, I can get him to run that break-in drill that some were talking about and maybe he will see the light. Just as a reassurance to my point of view, I was lying in bed trying to go back to sleep at about 5:30 this morning only to hear two not so distant gunshots followed about 5 minutes later by sirens. Although that sort of thing is not common here, its certainly not the first time its happened either.

As I've seen one poster on THR say, "when seconds count, the police are minutes away.". Thanks again guys!

bikerbill
March 22, 2009, 03:13 PM
If you keep the gun unloaded, you might as well protect yourself with a baseball bat ... my nightstand 1911 and my carry Kahr PM-9 are always loaded, as is the .38 I keep in my car glovebox ... when we're gone the guns are stashed, when we're home, they are within reach at all times ... there's no time to load your gun when the zombies attack ... good luck explaining that to your roomie ...

wrs840
March 22, 2009, 03:43 PM
I don't like leaving unsecured firearms in my house when I am gone...

+1

Les

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