Angelina Jolie trailer banned in U.K....


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jimmyraythomason
March 19, 2009, 09:37 AM
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.org/ad-featuring-angelina-jolie-ordered-off-uk-tv-ap

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indoorsoccerfrea
March 19, 2009, 09:39 AM
talk about Big Brother...

statelineblues
March 19, 2009, 09:41 AM
The 'Thought Police' strike again...

flphotoguy
March 19, 2009, 09:41 AM
First they take your guns, then they take away your freedom of speech.

CoRoMo
March 19, 2009, 09:45 AM
Is she pro-gun? Or does it matter?:D

indoorsoccerfrea
March 19, 2009, 09:53 AM
It was a movie trailor for "Wanted", and she was shown shirtless from behind shooting a gun! *GASP* The horror! Now all the thugs will think they become sexy when shirtless and shooting guns. Such indecency!

Deanimator
March 19, 2009, 10:21 AM
Is she pro-gun?
I'm no more interested in the opinions of actors about anything other than film making, than I am in the opinions of the winos in downtown Cleveland.

TeamPrecisionIT
March 19, 2009, 11:00 AM
I know that the author of the article was definitely anti. Read the last two paragraphs.

Damian

cmccmc
March 19, 2009, 12:24 PM
I am offended!

The UK is glorifying ignorance and poor oral hygiene. I want to ban them from my TV... and all other media. Who do I talk to?

Funderb
March 19, 2009, 12:28 PM
more than 10,000 gun-related killings reported by the FBI in the United States in 2007.
?
really?

JimJD
March 19, 2009, 12:31 PM
I heard they would only allow it to be aired if the footage was sped up while Benny Hill music was being played...

ArmedBear
March 19, 2009, 12:31 PM
10,000 gun-related killings

What's a "gun-related" killing?

When SWAT raids the wrong house because of an anonymous tip that some college kid had two ounces of weed, then shoots a 45-year-old mother of three in the back?

When two drunk guys get in an argument over Glock vs. 1911 and stab each other to death?

When the school principal has a fatal heart attack because little Johnny had a copy of Outdoor Life in his backpack?

searcher451
March 19, 2009, 12:33 PM
And we care about this ... why, exactly? The Brits are notoriously anti-gun. There's no news here and won't be tomorrow, either.

jimmyraythomason
March 19, 2009, 12:38 PM
We should care about this as a WARNING of things that could be imported to the good ol' US of A.

mljdeckard
March 19, 2009, 01:08 PM
I've never heard her say anything about guns, but she's very pro-U.N.

What was it about this trailer that was so offensive, yet they showed all of Tomb Raider in which she violates every gun law the British have?

1KPerDay
March 19, 2009, 01:08 PM
The distributors of that crappy movie probably paid the govt to get it banned so someone would want to see it. Sheesh that movie sucked. :eek:

cleardiddion
March 19, 2009, 01:11 PM
First they take your guns, then they take away your freedom of speech.

That's starting to sound eerily familiar

Dope
March 19, 2009, 01:20 PM
Interesting, but somehow not surprising. As far as I know Angelina and Brad are both pro-gun (at least, pro-gun for themselves). They have specifically mentioned owning some firearms for home defense.

Dope

MikePGS
March 19, 2009, 01:25 PM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s54/MikePGS/watchful_eyes.jpg

mcwjr13
March 19, 2009, 01:29 PM
I lived in the UK for about six months or so and have been traveling back and forth since I "moved" home. I have to say that the trailer is played about every fifteen minutes on some of their more male oriented networks. If you have never watched the british cable networks their advertising is so redundant that it is sickening. Now put this with the spike in youth crime and violence and it is not really that surprising that this has happened. The most important line is at the bottom of the article that reads:

The advertising authority has no power to enforce its writ, but it can refer advertisers to Britain's Office of Fair Trading for legal action.

essentially this is just a watchdog group. It is not uncommon for their to be nudity and colorful language used in their media but firearms are a no-no go figure.

throdgrain
March 19, 2009, 01:34 PM
Lads this is just another load of old bollocks. Dont beleive everything you read. You may end up the sheep that you think you aint :)

Cannonball888
March 19, 2009, 02:00 PM
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s54/MikePGS/watchful_eyes.jpg

I think "Big Brother is watching" would be more catchy.

Gungnir
March 19, 2009, 03:40 PM
Throdgrain:

ASA link http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_45945.htm

So the trailer can't be shown in it's original form.
The thing I found really laughable in the Yahoo report was the final paragraph...

But public concern was heightened in Britain after the shooting death of an 11-year-old boy in 2007. The murder drew national attention and prompted much soul-searching over whether the country's already strict gun control laws were tough enough.


How the hell are they going to achieve that? I'm sorry but being an Ex-Brit this kind of BS always makes me think of two politicians like "Jeeves and Wooster", well more like Wooster and Wooster, discussing some stupid plan to "save the world from the evils of...", I got an idea, make illegal gun ownership illegal, oh, wait, that's already done, erm... I know the police have guns, let's ban them, oh but that's the police, and they need them, erm... The Army they have guns, lets ban those... oh that's the army and they need them, erm... The Americans have guns, lets ban those...oh, they don't answer to us anymore, oh screw it lets go have some tea...

Titan6
March 19, 2009, 04:38 PM
Irrelevant, but Jolie is mainstream when it comes to guns.

She owns a handgun, knows how to shoot it and says she will use it to defend her children. So is Pitt.

6_gunner
March 19, 2009, 08:32 PM
First of all, that poster is one of the creepiest things I've ever seen. When I read 1984, I took it as a warning of how bad things could get; apparently somebody thought it was a how-to guide.

Second, I don't care how strict English gun laws are, 59 gun-related homicides is impossibly low.

I'm guessing that they included every single homicide that could possibly be considered "gun related" for the U.S. number; while being infinitely pickier when counting for the U.K. number.

10,000 doesn't sound that high, especially if they include suicides, gang warfare, police shootings, etc. I don't believe the 59 number for a second.

Hungry Seagull
March 19, 2009, 10:17 PM
That Brit Underground Poster creeps me out.

I was over there in the late 80's and none of that bull was in sight anywhere.

If it can happen there, ye betcha it's happened here.

Gamera
March 19, 2009, 11:13 PM
The film follows the initiation of an office drudge Wesley Gibson (played by James McAvoy ) into a mythical group of super-powered assassins.

Well and we wouldn't want people to think that mythical groups of super-powered assassins is a good thing either.

-v-
March 19, 2009, 11:58 PM
That 10,000 figure is one that includes all suicides committed using firearms. I think of that 5-8,000 or so are suicides, and the rest are all other uses of firearms, including accidents, police-shootings, the shallow ends of the gene-pool getting into firefights, and legitimate self-defense.

Kind of Blued
March 20, 2009, 12:17 AM
What a pathetic excuse for a country. I hope the good people get the nerve some day to show the government that they're human beings.

Wheeler
March 20, 2009, 12:32 AM
Ya'll have to remember that Britian is a nation of subjects, they have been for the past millenium or so. It's tough to think for yourself when the concept of caste system is ingrained in your genetic code.

While we laugh and ridicule the brits and aussies, it's only taken us since WW2 to start to become like them. Depression? Make the government take care of it.
High gas prices? The government needs to fix that!
Big hurricane rips up your neighborhood? Why didn't the government predict that and come get you?
What? You say your company has been using a crappy business model and your greed and lack of ethics has bankrupted you? No problem, we're from the government and we're here to help?
You say you have no education, no desire to get an education, and have eight kids? Well... mininum wage is not enough, not even with welfare, let's just make those uncaring employers pay you more; Because you're ENTITLED.

Poke all the fun you want at the brits, we as a society are not far behind.

Wheeler

nwilliams
March 20, 2009, 01:27 AM
This sounds familiar and just as pathetic!:barf:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=318353&highlight=shoot+em+up
U.K. watchdog condemns film's violent gun ads
Wednesday November 21 8:59 PM ET

Britain's advertising watchdog on Wednesday upheld complaints that images used to promote an action film glamorized guns amid growing public concern about youth violence.

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) said it backed 55 people who complained about posters for the thriller "Shoot 'Em Up."

One of the ads showed actor Paul Giamatti pointing a gun while holding a mobile phone with text saying "Just another family man making a living."

Another depicted actor Clive Owen jumping in the air holding a pistol in each hand which he was pointing toward the viewer.

A London-based community safety group complained, saying the ads glorified gun crime.

The ads attracted complaints from people who said they were offensive and insensitive to those who had been affected by gun crime, citing the family of Rhys Jones, an 11-year-old boy who was shot dead on a street in Liverpool, northern England.

His death, which followed a wave of teenage murders involving guns, horrified the country and prompted Prime Minister Gordon Brown to promise action to tackle the issue.

Entertainment Film Distributors Ltd,, which made the posters, said it did not believe they glamorized gun violence. It said they had been specifically designed so the guns Owen was holding were angled away from the viewer.

But the ASA, in explaining its ruling that the ads should not be used again, said it was mindful of growing public concern. Whilst it did not uphold complaints relating to Jones's death, it did back the views of the community group.

"We concluded that (the) ads could be seen to condone violence by glorifying or glamorizing the use of guns."

Earlier this week the ASA reported that there had been a sharp rise this year in complaints from the public about advertisements that depict or allude to violence.

So far this year it has received 1,748 complaints about 523 ads, compared with just 1,054 complaints received in the whole of 2006 about 254 ads.

"The ASA takes the increase in complaints very seriously and is keen to hear the public's views," said Lord Smith, Chairman of the ASA. "Our key priority is how we ensure children are protected from harmful images."

The ASA is holding a seminar on Wednesday to discuss the issue through debates focusing on the depiction of guns and knives, horror films, video games and general violence.

Reuters/Nielsen

pingpong
March 20, 2009, 02:00 AM
I don't know if Angelina Jolie is pro-gun, but I did hear she collects knives, which, disturbingly,are partially regulated in the UK. It seems that since they banned guns, stabbings have skyrocketted. Some anti-violence groups have even put forward the genius idea of having blunt pointed knives(this includes steak knives obviously) to try and halt the carnage. God save the queen indeed.

buttrap
March 20, 2009, 06:06 AM
Keep in mind that this is the UK where last year a .22 round was found sitting on a entry to a store in London. The responce to that was on par with when the second aircraft hit the second trade tower.

Titan6
March 20, 2009, 08:19 AM
59 is not impossibly low. You have to keep a few thing in mind:

- Crime has always been lower in the UK than the US

- With the police state they do not count the number of people killed by the police our numbers include that.

- Gun murder account for less than 7% of all murders. Guns are illegal so knives kill people instead. There has been a move afoot to ban knives as well but they are running into resistance from the few meat eaters left on the island

- The home office was raked over the coals last year for lying on their statistics to make it appear as though the crime rate went down when in fact it went up.

The number of children murdered by their parents has risen by about one-third in the past year, from 24 to 33 victims, according to the latest Home Office homicide figures published yesterday. The figures reveal that this "hidden" crime of parental child murder overshadows the highly publicised murders in which five under-16s were shot dead and a further four children were stabbed to death.

The annual homicide figures show that the total number of murders in England and Wales in 2006/07 fell from 769 to 757 - the fifth successive year in which the murder rate has fallen from a peak of 1,047 in 2002/03, when Dr Harold Shipman's victims were included in the total.

The violent crime figures also record a 14% fall in gun crime offences from 21,527 in 2005/06 to 18,489 in 2006/07. Those who died in shootings rose over the same period - the year to April 2007 - from 49 victims to 59. But more recent figures to September 2007 published last week showed that the annual gun death toll has fallen again to 49.

throdgrain
March 20, 2009, 09:56 AM
I do try to ignore people criticising my (admittedly not perfect) country, but 59 gun related murders would be about right. I've tried to explain many times here, it really doesnt happen much, and when it does its very often in one of maybe 2 or 3 inner citys, and the crimes of often committed by gang members from a, err, non British background :uhoh:


That film you are talking about, it came out last year I think, and i'm fairly sure I saw trailers of it on TV at the time.

The Queen by the way, has nothing to do with laws made in our country, that is the business of the terrible lefty goverment we have in power at the moment.

Thanks for reading, now carry on posting wild suppositions, including but not only

Pump action and semi auto shotguns are banned in the UK

All guns are banned in the UK

Every street has 20 cameras on it.

We are subjects of the crown and somehow that effects our lives,

+ whatever else you'd like to dream up :)

GEM
March 20, 2009, 11:03 AM
A few years ago, I talked to an editor of a major US handgun magazine and he told me that they had to have a nice cover for the UK edition - couldn't have a gun on it. The picture would drive folks to violence.

SsevenN
March 20, 2009, 11:21 AM
And the truth will set you free.


4,000 shot in Britain in a year
Figures show war on gun crime failing
Will Iredale
FOUR THOUSAND people have suffered shooting injuries in a single year as gun crime continues to rise across Britain. Figures released by the Home Office show that 81 people were shot dead and more than 500 were seriously wounded between April 2002 and March 2003.
The details of gun casualties come as government statistics issued this month are expected to show that other violent crime mainly fuelled by binge drinking has risen by 11% compared with the same period last year.

The gunshot injuries are revealed in a paper detailing crimes recorded by police in England and Wales. It is the most up-to-date analysis available of the type of weapons used and the scale of injury.

The data show that 518 people needed to be detained in hospital after being shot and wounded in the 12-month period from 2002-03. More than one-third (187) were seriously injured by handguns while 41 were wounded with shotguns. In total, 3,995 people were shot, of whom about half (2,187) had minor wounds caused by air guns.

The figures will be of great concern to the government, which has tried to convince the public it is winning the battle on gun crime. The 2003-04 figures are also expected to see the trend continue with even more injuries being caused by guns.

Two years ago a guns amnesty was hailed a success by the government after more than 17,000 firearms and 450,000 rounds of ammunition were handed in to police stations across the country. There have also been recent high-profile operations to crack down on guns in inner cities.

However, gun crime figures released last October showed a 3% rise to 10,590 incidents in England and Wales in the year to June an average of 29 a day. Gun crime has more than doubled since Labour came to power in 1997.

Yesterday, a man was taken to hospital after being shot in the neck while sitting in a parked car at a busy junction in Reading. The victim, who has not been named but is believed to be about 30, is being treated in Royal Berkshire hospital, which says his condition is serious.

The high volume of injuries from gunshots is further highlighted in figures obtained by The Sunday Times from police forces under the Freedom of Information Act.

In the past two years the Metropolitan police recorded 2,015 incidents, while in Manchester 95 people were seriously wounded last year, according to Greater Manchester police, and West Yorkshire police recorded 251 crimes where a firearm was fired causing injury.

Experts say the number of people admitted to hospital with gunshot injuries is much higher than those released by the government because many hospitals do not record the treatment of gunshot wounds, or the method of collecting data differs between hospitals.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article413114.ece

throdgrain
March 20, 2009, 11:40 AM
So, 81 firearms related deaths, as opposed to how many in the states? Which was I suspect the point of the original poster.

Those figures you have are from 2003 also, which would explain a discrepency from the 59 mentioned by the original poster.

However, thats not really the point. My point was how tiring this holier-than-thou attitude is, particularly when allied to zero facts or knowledge of the situation. And I'm very pro-gun, of course, and feel my countries attitude to shooting and firearms is rediculous.

The truth will set you free :rolleyes: Dont make me laugh ....

SsevenN
March 20, 2009, 11:45 AM
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/SsevenN_photo/USvsUKhomiciderates.jpg

My point is the article goes out of it's way to make America sound like hell.

My point is you have a biased media due to government control.

America's 'safety catch'
By Justin Webb
BBC North America editor, Missouri

Despite the fact there are more than 200 million guns in circulation, there is a certain tranquility and civility about American life.

Deepwater, Missouri has a motto: "A great lil' town nestled in the heartland."

Man holding a Cold .45 semi-automatic pistol (Photo: Karen Bleier/AFP/Getty Images)

Deepwater considers itself to be an exemplar of the best of American life. A place where outsiders - if they ever penetrated this far - would find home-cooked apple pie and friendly, warm, hard-working folk.

Among those folk, I have no doubt, is Ronald Long.

Last month Mr Long decided to install a satellite television system in his Deepwater home. His efforts to make a hole in the outside wall came to nothing because Mr Long did not possess a drill.

But he did have a .22 calibre gun.

He fired two shots from the inside of the bedroom.

The second killed his wife who was standing outside.

He will face no charges. The police accept it was an accident.

Gun control

To many foreigners - and to some Americans - the tolerance of guns in everyday American life is simply inexplicable.

"In Montana, we like our guns... most of us own two or three"
Brian Schweitzer, Governor of Montana

As a New York Times columnist put it recently:

"The nation is saturated with violence. Thousands upon thousands of murders are committed each year. There are more than 200 million guns in circulation."

Someone suggested a few days ago that the Democrats' presidential candidates might like to take up the issue of gun control.

Forget about it.

They were warned off - in colourful style - by a fellow Democrat, the Governor of Montana, Brian Schweitzer.

"In Montana, we like our guns", he said.

"Most of us own two or three guns. 'Gun control' is hitting what you shoot at. So I'd be a little careful about blowing smoke up our skirts."

Democrats would like to win in the Mountain West this November. Enough said.

Washington weapons ban

On the anniversary of the Virginia Tech shooting, all this will feel to some like a rather depressing, if predictable, American story. A story of an inability to get to grips with violence.

Students hold candles during a ceremony at Virginia Tech (Photo: AP/Don Petersen)

At the moment, there is an effort being made to overturn a ban on some types of weapon in Washington DC.

Among those dead against this plan - those who claim it would turn the nation's capital into the Wild West - is a lanky black man (he looks like a basketball player) called Anwan Glover.

Anwan peeled off articles of clothing for our cameras and revealed that he had been shot nine times.

One bullet is still lodged in an elbow.

His younger brother was shot and killed a few months ago.

Anwan was speaking to us in a back alley in north-east Washington. If you heard a gun shot in this neighbourhood you would not feel surprised.

'Gentler environment'

Why is it then that so many Americans - and foreigners who come here - feel that the place is so, well, safe?

"I have met incredulous British tourists who have been shocked to the core by the peacefulness of the place"


The Manhatten skyline (Photo:Clive Brunskill/Getty Images)

A British man I met in Colorado recently told me he used to live in Kent but he moved to the American state of New Jersey and will not go home because it is, as he put it, "a gentler environment for bringing the kids up."

This is New Jersey. Home of the Sopranos.

Brits arriving in New York, hoping to avoid being slaughtered on day one of their shopping mission to Manhattan are, by day two, beginning to wonder what all the fuss was about. By day three they have had had the scales lifted from their eyes.

I have met incredulous British tourists who have been shocked to the core by the peacefulness of the place, the lack of the violent undercurrent so ubiquitous in British cities, even British market towns.

"It seems so nice here," they quaver.

Well, it is!

Violent paradox

Ten or 20 years ago, it was a different story, but things have changed.

And this is Manhattan.

Wait till you get to London Texas, or Glasgow Montana, or Oxford Mississippi or Virgin Utah, for that matter, where every household is required by local ordinance to possess a gun.

Folks will have guns in all of these places and if you break into their homes they will probably kill you.

They will occasionally kill each other in anger or by mistake, but you never feel as unsafe as you can feel in south London.

It is a paradox. Along with the guns there is a tranquillity and civility about American life of which most British people can only dream.

Peace and serenity

What surprises the British tourists is that, in areas of the US that look and feel like suburban Britain, there is simply less crime and much less violent crime.

Doors are left unlocked, public telephones unbroken.

One reason - perhaps the overriding reason - is that there is no public drunkenness in polite America, simply none.

I have never seen a group of drunk young people in the entire six years I have lived here. I travel a lot and not always to the better parts of town.

It is an odd fact that a nation we associate - quite properly - with violence is also so serene, so unscarred by petty crime, so innocent of brawling.

Virginia Tech had the headlines in the last few days and reminded us of the violence for which the US is well known.

But most American lives were as peaceful on this anniversary as they are every day.

From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday 19 April, 2008 at 1130 BST on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service transmission times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7359513.stm

The UK has been compiling crime statistics since 1805. Back then the government just totted up court convictions.

HAVE YOUR SAY
To be persuaded crime is going down, look at the government figures. To be persuaded it is not, look out the window

B Anderson


Send us your comments

Today, the police record crime, but not all recorded crime has always been presented in national figures.

And when in 1998 the government extended the list of crimes to be included in national data, the figures jumped.

So the Home Office has tended to steer the public to the entirely separate British Crime Survey, a rolling study of the underlying trends based on interviews in huge national samples.

It's a widely respected tool - but it has some flaws which statisticians like Prof Smith say have not helped improve public trust.

So two centuries on from the first crime statistics, the Home Office is planning to move to a much more sophisticated system to restore public trust and confidence.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has accepted the broad thrust of Prof Smith's plans to roll out localised crime data, giving us monthly figures on what is going on outside our front doors.

West Yorkshire Police Authority has already launched online maps in the spirit of chicagocrime.org and all other constabularies in England and Wales will have them in place by July next year, says Ms Smith.

So the Home Office is changing the way it presents crime figures to win a battle for public confidence based on local facts - not national fears.

Interestingly, it has also decided that from now on ministerial comments on crime - i.e. those prone to political argument - will be released separately to the dry statistics produced by civil servants.

The question is whether the new local maps of crime hotspots


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6906536.stm

TedP
March 20, 2009, 11:51 AM
You guys need to stop arguing over which country is better or has more deaths and focus on the important things...

The movie was pretty bad. The trailers showed the "best" scenes form the movie. No loss missing out on it.

Curve a bullet? Heart rate beats at 400 beats per minute?

191145fan
March 20, 2009, 12:39 PM
Criminals are just that. If they were magically transported from the US to the UK they would still be a criminal. They would commit crimes with what ever tools were available be that a gun, a knife, a club, stick or rock.

Banning firearms and removing them from criminals hands would reduce firearm violence but it wont reduce crime or violence (by other methods). The firearm isn't what creates the criminal or the criminal mindset.

and dont forget...75% of all statistics are made up.

191145fan
March 20, 2009, 12:47 PM
oh... One other thing. I will have to agree with the Brits on something.

Glorifying crime and violence in movies certainly wont lower the crime rate. The young and weak minded can be influence by movies.

6_gunner
March 20, 2009, 02:13 PM
Well, perhaps I spoke too soon. Apparently 59 firearms-related deaths is a realistic number.

I find that very surprising.

throdgrain
March 20, 2009, 04:32 PM
Thank you 6_gunner. And please don't get me wrong, I'm a great admirer of how your country treats gun owners, and I mostly agree with your laws. That article by Justin Webb I've read on the BBC website by the way, and I agree with it.

But I can't have people making stuff up about my country. I have to say what I think :) The amount of cameras we have is aweful. And when they catch people using it, like the failed terrorists a few years ago, they make sure we know it's justified :( But it's not, just like the over-zealous gun laws. Have a check how many cameras there are in New York, then compare it to London. I bet it's similar.

I can still have a pump shotgun and a semi-auto though, so it's not all bad :D

Titan6
March 20, 2009, 04:38 PM
I'll take the extra murders, violence in my movies and on TV and all the other problems that having freedom entails.

They can have their big brother life style and all the security that the state will let them have. And good luck with that.

ElmCityPinoy
March 20, 2009, 04:50 PM
Is she pro-gun?

Not sure if she's pro-gun, per se, but she isn't an anti. She does own guns (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1022472/Ive-got-Tomb-Raider-guns--Im-afraid-use-says-Angelina.html) -- the real versions of the HK USP Match's she used in Tomb Raider...

Quiet
March 20, 2009, 09:23 PM
The UK Daily Mail "outed" Anglina Jolie and Brad Pitt's gun ownership. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1022472/Ive-got-Tomb-Raider-guns--Im-afraid-use-says-Angelina.html)


'If anybody comes into my home and tries to hurt my kids, I've no problem shooting them,' she says with a dry candour.

'I bought original, real guns of the type we used in Tomb Raider for security. Brad and I are not against having a gun in the house, and we do have one. And yes, I'd be able to use it if I had to.

Deltaboy
March 21, 2009, 11:36 AM
Just say no to big brother!

Remember the Lessons Orwell taught us in Animal Farm and 1984.

mljdeckard
March 21, 2009, 12:06 PM
I don't yearn for safety. I cling to freedom.

Tommygunn
March 21, 2009, 12:14 PM
But I can't have people making stuff up about my country. I have to say what I think The amount of cameras we have is aweful. And when they catch people using it, like the failed terrorists a few years ago, they make sure we know it's justified But it's not, just like the over-zealous gun laws. Have a check how many cameras there are in New York, then compare it to London. I bet it's similar.

One of the problems I have with regards to ciminal statistics in the UK is that different sources quote different statistics. "Across the pond" -- as they say -- it is very difficult to have a real perspective about which stats are right.
One thing that used to be quoted by the N.R.A. is that the murder rate in Britain went up by 150% during the 20th century. Judging by the graph above in SsevenN's post, while it doesn't cover nearly all of the 20th century, I would have a hard time extrapolating a 150% rise from just what's there.
I have >>>heard<<< also that since the Dunblane Massacre and the subsequent ban, gun murders increased.
I also have ... "heard" ... that Scotland Yard fudges statistics up ....I'm not saying it's true, but it does make one have to wonder how accurate trying to comprehend reality through statistical analysis can be.
People on both sides of the aisle make a lot of hash with resulting stats. In America, it's been said that if you discount inner city crime, gang and/or drug related murders, America's murder stats look a great deal more like europe's. The anti gunners tend to use european stats in their arguments a lot.
Another thing is that each state, and sometimes municipality, has their own laws a lot of times. The University of Chicago Study indicated that in America, where the law abiding have easier access to firearms, the murder rate is lower than where guns are strictly controlled. This would seem to be verified by big city experiences; Washington DC for example has had very strict antigun laws, yet if you wander just a couple of blocks away from the white house, there's gang shootings, driveby shootings, and other serious crimes; plenty of people own guns. Except they're either police officers or criminals.
And criminals will never be stopped by an antigun law.

What to believe from statistics?
A good many of them, IMHO, appear to be cooked. I may be prejudiced, but I am generally more suspicious of those used by the antigunners. They seem to be more disingenuous than others. They will draw innappropriate conclusions from them, or make rash sweeping generalizations without any facts whatsoever.
People might be "making stuff up" about the UK -- or more likely they've just gotten hold of some twisted statistics -- but these things happen to America as well. The UK hasn't been specially targeted.

RP88
March 21, 2009, 01:10 PM
well, to be fair, the movie sucked anyway :p

yes, I know: that isn't the point

throdgrain
March 21, 2009, 01:12 PM
I wasn't suggesting anything other Tommygun. I don't believe a bloody word I read :)

But it's a cliche that most Americans know nothing that goes on outside thier shores, and one that I always dismiss. Yet whenever there's a conversation on here about anything that happens in Great Britain, it always ends up

* they all got bad teeth

* they all live in castles

* all guns are banned

* there is murder on the streets on a daily basis

* etc etc

When some posters on here are confronted with anything different to that, they immediately seem to go into denial.

On UK shooting forums, most people don't think that Americans

* are all fat

*are all a bit stupid

* are all out shooting each other on a daily basis.

Quite the reverse. There are a few American posters on one of the biggest shooting forums in the U.K , www.airgunbbs.com and they are all treated well.

indoorsoccerfrea
March 21, 2009, 01:22 PM
throdgrain, not all Americans think those in Great Britain are like that. i'm sure there are some, however, just as i am sure there are some British who think that Americans are fat and stupid. don't generalize!:)

throdgrain
March 21, 2009, 02:40 PM
I wasn't generalising mate, that's why I was careful to say "it's a cliche that ..."


However, from this very thread -

Ya'll have to remember that Britian is a nation of subjects, they have been for the past millenium or so. It's tough to think for yourself when the concept of caste system is ingrained in your genetic code.


Not a clue what he's on about.

The UK is glorifying ignorance and poor oral hygiene.

'nuff said.

Second, I don't care how strict English gun laws are, 59 gun-related homicides is impossibly low.


Refuted and apology accepted.

What a pathetic excuse for a country

Err??

The camera advert? Well I've never seen such an ad, but like I say check how many cameras are in NY, I bet theres as many, or nearly.

Dammit maybe I'm too touchy huh ? :(

GRAYRID3R
March 21, 2009, 07:33 PM
People are people. I've been to Ireland, Scotland, and have known many English and Welsh people and they are no different than my fellow Americans. They DO talk almost as strange as Canadians or Minnesotans though.:D

throdgrain
March 22, 2009, 05:22 AM
Hey YOU'RE the ones who talk strange :D :D

4Freedom
March 22, 2009, 05:33 AM
Jon Voight her father is very pro-gun and I think an NRA member and conservative on the political scale. Well, I don't if being her father help rub off on the daughter; I know the two don't seem to like each other very much.

But it's a cliche that most Americans know nothing that goes on outside thier shores, and one that I always dismiss. Yet whenever there's a conversation on here about anything that happens in Great Britain, it always ends up


America's shores are quite large, almost same size as the entire EUropean continent. We are not stuck in a little country the size of Florida. So, of course we may not be able to take a train and boast how we visited like 10 countries. Your countries are smaller than many of the states in the USA. Actually, many Americans know quite a bit more about what is going on outside this country with the advent of modern information technology, such as internet and globalization of commerce and industry. I, myself, have been to Europe and have to say some of the stereotypes that Americans have for Europeans are not necessarily manifested from some fairy tale or unprecedented rumor.

However, I think lot of Europeans are totally ignorant about the situation of USA. Its hilarious what I hear some of them say. The worst one I hear is that we are all gun-toting, warmongering child killing imperialists. This is funny coming from Europeans, who colonized, reaped plentiful resources and essentially controlled by force many weaker nations around the globe.


On UK shooting forums, most people don't think that Americans

* are all fat

*are all a bit stupid

* are all out shooting each other on a daily basis.


UK shooters must be the enlightened bunch. I speak with many Europeans online who tell me I must be very fat and that all my food comes from Burger King. In fact, I never ate at Burger King in over 12 years.

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