Sig Sauer sticks it to the commerical buyer...


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rellascout
March 19, 2009, 08:56 PM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

SIG SAUER® Commercial Pistols Now Shipping with Single Magazine

EXETER, NH – SIG SAUER, the leading manufacturer of military, law enforcement, government agency, and commercial firearms, has announced effective March 20, 2009, that all commercial pistols with a standard configuration of two magazines will now ship with a single magazine. This change in configuration is a result of the critical shortage of magazines throughout the industry. SIG SAUER’s decision to ship commercial pistols with one magazine will allow existing and new orders to be processed without interruption. Without this change in policy, magazine availability would severely hinder SIG SAUER’s ability to meet market demand and ship product in a timely manner. Distributor and dealer single magazine pistol shipments commence immediately. For more information on SIG SAUER, or any if its products, visit www.sigsauer.com.

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earlthegoat2
March 19, 2009, 09:28 PM
Just one more reason to get a Glock. Magazines are available and not near as expensive as those from Sig.

Dan Crocker
March 19, 2009, 09:32 PM
Amen to that...Glock mags are all over the place. And still only 23 bucks here in Kansas!

1911shooter
March 19, 2009, 11:22 PM
Still the best combat pistol on the market, with one or 2 or 3 mags will buy as many SIG pistols i can afford. But seeing as i already own 1 of each model i dont need any more. Glocks are ok but they are still a glock, which isnt the end all of pistols.

PPGMD
March 19, 2009, 11:25 PM
Hmm I don't see any shortages of Mec Gar magazines. Just the Sig branded magazines.

papafloyd
March 19, 2009, 11:33 PM
Just bought my P220 and it has the 2 mags....but it was in stock at the store. I also purchased 2 more 10 rnd mags and yes they are relatively expensive, paid 39.99 with the extension. I couldn't find any Mec Gar mags for the .45, did I not look in the right place? You can't have too many mags!

BTW I don't have any of this yet, I pick up the pistol Wed. and the other stuff is on order.

PPGMD
March 19, 2009, 11:39 PM
Only Sig makes the 10 round magazines, but Act-Novak 8 round magazines are available for as cheap as $20 each.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/magazines-sig-sauer_p220/

Calhoun321
March 19, 2009, 11:45 PM
The last Sig mag I bought was $32.00. The last Glock mag I saw for sale was $30.00. Granted, these are store/gun show prices rather than bulk internet purchase prices.

atblis
March 19, 2009, 11:49 PM
Wow, that's pretty freaking lame.
Glock factory mags ~$25
Sig factory mags ~$35

PPGMD
March 20, 2009, 12:01 AM
Last time I bought a Sig mag (about a week ago) I paid $21. Mec Gar (who makes Sig factory magazine) 15 round 228/229 magazine.

Last time I bought a Glock magazine (about two months ago) I paid $25 for a Glock 19 15 round magazine.

priler
March 20, 2009, 12:02 AM
oh oh,....i think i see a trend across the board here,walther PPS has also started to come with one mag also.....crap.

don't be surprised if they all started doing this.

usp9
March 20, 2009, 07:22 AM
Is there a link to this?

Is this a hoax?

23Glock
March 20, 2009, 09:39 AM
What a load of crap. Magazine shortage? How about calling it a "Profit Shortage" - that's more appropriate. Clearly a cost cutting move amidst a tough economy. Are they lowering the price by one magazine? Not... How about some honesty Sig?

There's an angry thread over at Sigforum on this:
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/2211026751

Just One Shot
March 20, 2009, 02:26 PM
Forget the Sig and get an XD. You'll get 2 mags and have extra money to buy more!
;)

The Lone Haranguer
March 20, 2009, 05:26 PM
This is not new - my P228 that I got 12 years ago (NIB) only had one magazine (13-round). A piece of paper in the box with SIG's letterhead said so.

This does not make it any less annoying - IMO any pistol should come with at least two magazines. Even the budget-priced Bersas are now coming with two, for crying out loud.

Supertac45
March 20, 2009, 05:32 PM
It is a Sig though.

The Lone Haranguer
March 20, 2009, 06:03 PM
It is a Sig though.

:scrutiny:

Sarcasm? :p

skwab
March 20, 2009, 06:45 PM
That's fine as long as they decrease the price by the appropriate amount, but I have a feeling that's not going to happen.

P90shooter
March 20, 2009, 07:08 PM
23 Glock:
In case you hadnt noticed gun manu. are not hurting due to this economy. Actually they are posting profits higher then they did when Clinton took office. You can do a simple search on CNN or Yahoo finance for any of the publicly traded companies and see their quarterly reports.

CPshooter
March 21, 2009, 01:17 AM
Ok..this thread can go without all the "one more reason to buy a Glock" comments. For real people.

This does suck though. How can there be a shortage of magazines? For the price of a Sig pistol, they should come with at least two magazines.

Dan Crocker
March 21, 2009, 04:36 PM
It could, but where's the fun in that? I love Sigs, they are great guns and I've felt fine carrying them in some crappy corners of the world. I'd do the same with a Glock as well.

The Lone Haranguer
March 21, 2009, 04:41 PM
Reduce the price of the gun by $35 and I would be happier.

2nd 41
March 21, 2009, 05:45 PM
What a load of crap. Magazine shortage? How about calling it a "Profit Shortage" - that's more appropriate.

I totally agree. What a bunch of manure.

maskedman504
March 21, 2009, 06:53 PM
That's fine as long as they decrease the price by the appropriate amount, but I have a feeling that's not going to happen.

Prices never go down on anything.

JustinL
March 21, 2009, 08:27 PM
Not news to those of us who were amongst the first to buy a Mosquito and not realize they only issued them with a 1 year warranty.

atblis
March 21, 2009, 08:28 PM
Prices never go down on anything.
What? Yeah they do.

Badger Arms
March 21, 2009, 08:49 PM
This has shades of "Bill Ruger hates guns" type threads. SIG is being forced to ship their pistols with one magazine because the orders for magazines far outstrips the orders for pistols. They just don't have the capacity to make magazines as fast as they are wanted. Sounds simple to me. IIRC, everybody did this following the Stockton and McDonalds massacre's in California and during the months leading up to the Clinton ban. This is a reaction to the looming Obama ban. And isn't "Obama Ban" cooler to say than "Clinton ban". Heck, the word "Clinton" sounds like something you learned about in Health class.

chiselchst
March 21, 2009, 10:01 PM
Do the after market Sig mags work reliably? Pro Mag, ACT, etc?

Are there any brands I should try to avoid? (a PM is OK if you do not prefer to post experiences here).

TIA...

Phydeaux642
March 21, 2009, 10:07 PM
How about calling it a "Profit Shortage" - that's more appropriate. Clearly a cost cutting move amidst a tough economy.

This is incorrect. Gun manufacturers are one of the few bright spots in this economy. Profits are doing just fine.

sm
March 21, 2009, 10:14 PM
Get a Revolver.

.
.
.






Hey, if all the other fan boys are gonna come out, why not?

You gotta admit, this is a bit refreshing from the usual after 5 posts reading :
Get a Glock.

*snicker*


Use Enough Tacky

Phydeaux642
March 21, 2009, 10:19 PM
Get a Revolver.


+1. I went and put money down on another S&W 442 sans lock today. Was thinking about the GP100 they had a couple of hours earlier, but it was gone when I got back.

Old Navy
March 22, 2009, 01:12 PM
But I don't WANT a revolver.

rbernie
March 22, 2009, 01:16 PM
Do the after market Sig mags work reliably? Pro Mag, ACT, etc?

Are there any brands I should try to avoid? (a PM is OK if you do not prefer to post experiences here).ACT/Novak for the P220.

MecGars for the P226/228/229.

Colt tapered-lip hybrids for the GSR.

ProMags and TripleKs and National Mags should be universally regarded as junk until proven otherwise (because they usually are).

chiselchst
March 22, 2009, 11:00 PM
Thank you, thank you very much...

Zach S
March 23, 2009, 08:51 AM
Its a catch-22. Really nothing they can do "right."

Lets say for example that SIG decided to stop shipping pistols until they had two mags to go with them. Folks are gonna whine about having to wait for their new pistol because of a $35 magazine.

Or they stop shipping individual magazines, because they need them for the guns they're selling. Folks are gonna whine because they cant get a $35 magazine without several hundred dollars worth of pistol.

If they sell the pistol with one mag, and include a mail in card so you can get another when they get caught up, folks are gonna while about having their name on "a list," or having to wait on their mag, or both.

Yeah, just one magazine sucks. But the gun will run with one magazine. You're not buying a car with three tires.

Highland Ranger
March 23, 2009, 09:18 AM
How about shipping with one mag and a coupon for either a mag when they become available or other gear?

They should just call it what it is - a price increase.

We need to come up with a SIG equivalent to the HK spoof "HK, because you suck and we hate you" phrase . . . . suggestions?!

skeeter_08
March 23, 2009, 12:12 PM
I've gotten good deals on used 10 rd. factory magazines for the P228 I used to have, and I have to buy used mags for the P225 I have now, and I've never had problems with any of these used Sig factory magazines I've bought.

jbkebert
March 23, 2009, 12:34 PM
I recently was interested in picking up another SIG P226 at a local shop. It was used and the tag said comes with 4 mags all for $575.00. I was ready to flop down the cash when he brought the box over. I opened it up and it had one mag in the gun and the other 3 were for a lorcin .380:scrutiny:. I looked at the guy and said what the heck did you grab the wrong box? No it turned out the guy who sold it to him traded it for another sig in stainless. So he threw in some crap mags and screwed the gun shop. Boy that doesn't happen to often someone getting over on a dealer. Needless to say he still has the gun and his lorcin mags.

searcher451
March 23, 2009, 12:48 PM
This ranks right up with there with food manufacturers who are packing smaller amounts of materials and selling them for the same price as what was formerly offered in the original size: you see it all the time in products ranging from cereal to ice cream (one of the major food groups, by the way) to ... you name it. It's one way to beat the continued cost of inflation without raising prices.

Sig isn't the only gun dealer to do this, by the way. Walther has started it with at least the PPS model.

KBintheSLC
March 23, 2009, 06:59 PM
I have been waiting for many months for 10 round mags to become available for my P239 in 9mm. I finally received news that my backordered shipment was sent out yesterday.

This is really going to make me think twice before I buy another Sig. I have had no issues getting 17 round mags for my Glocks lately... for less money too.

Its a catch-22. Really nothing they can do "right."

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but couldn't they just ramp up production a little to meet the growing demand? But I guess doing that would not fuel the paranoia-purchases the gun industry so greatly appreciates.

Zach S
March 23, 2009, 10:22 PM
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but couldn't they just ramp up production a little to meet the growing demand? But I guess doing that would not fuel the paranoia-purchases the gun industry so greatly appreciates.
Having worked in manufacturing for most of my adult life, and more 60 hour weeks than I care to remember, I know you can only ramp production up so much.

flynlr
March 24, 2009, 05:17 AM
quit happy to find the M&P 40 I purchased came with 3 mags.
Le version.

so there. not a getta glock post.:neener:

Highland Ranger
March 24, 2009, 08:42 AM
Having worked in manufacturing for most of my adult life, and more 60 hour weeks than I care to remember, I know you can only ramp production up so much.

Very true. And they are faced with a dilemma as are the AR manufacturers - make a long term capital investment to increase capacity in an environment where capital is scarce and legislative capriciousness may put you out of business?

Or run what they brung, as hard as they can and see what happens.

They are all doing the latter I believe.

If this goes on for years, they may look at expanding, but not for what may be a shortlived boom one way or another.

748
March 24, 2009, 03:39 PM
Sounds like a scam to get another $40 out of Sig buyer.

What are the chances of the price of a sig reflecting the lack of a spare mag?

KBintheSLC
March 24, 2009, 05:16 PM
What are the chances of the price of a sig reflecting the lack of a spare mag?

I'd say slim to none. It is disturbing at best since Sig's are not the most affordable guns around in the first place. I don't mind that my Kel Tec only came with one mag... it only cost me $250. Considering Sigs hefty $800+ price tag, the single mag deal is pretty absurd.

MAKster
March 24, 2009, 05:31 PM
While I assume that Mec-gar can sell the magazines individually for more than what Sig buys them for in bulk, I would also think that Sig would be one of their largest customers so a slight increase in the price Sig pays should be enough to persuade Mec-gar to ship more mags to Sig.

jon_in_wv
April 20, 2010, 08:22 PM
I just bought a new P220 last weekend and it came with three magazines. It also have the stamped steel slide and night sights. LOVING IT.

mgmorden
April 21, 2010, 01:49 PM
What are the chances of the price of a sig reflecting the lack of a spare mag?

Not going to happen. The reality is you have a lot of factors going on here. It quite likely came down to two options for them: (1) raise the price of the pistol or (2) reduce the number of mags provided.

They went with option 2. If you prefer option 1, you can always add your own mags later for the same effect.

Personally, though I have at least 2 mags for MOST of my guns, I typically wouldn't need them. I usually only load up and use 1 mag at the range anyways, since I try to rotate guns when I'm there (ie, load up 3 mags - 1 each for 3 guns, and then shoot through each mag at 3 separate targets).

KBintheSLC
April 21, 2010, 02:56 PM
I just bought a new P220 last weekend and it came with three magazines. It also have the stamped steel slide and night sights. LOVING IT.

Glad to hear it. From what I have seen on the shelves, the mag shortage is mostly over. All guns should come with 3 factory mags. 1 for the gun and 2 spares.

One-Time
April 21, 2010, 06:32 PM
How about shipping with one mag and a coupon for either a mag when they become available or other gear?

They should just call it what it is - a price increase.

We need to come up with a SIG equivalent to the HK spoof "HK, because you suck and we hate you" phrase . . . . suggestions?!

Exactly! If it were an actual shortage(and Im not buying it was) theyd include a coupon or lower prices accordingly, they didnt, its a price raise on an already overly expensive gun, and I LOVE SIGs

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 21, 2010, 07:23 PM
Glock factory mags ~$25
Sig factory mags ~$35

Well the Sig mags are of MUCH higher quality - why *wouldn't* they be more expensive?

rellascout
April 21, 2010, 10:43 PM
Well the Sig mags are of MUCH higher quality - why *wouldn't* they be more expensive?

Because they do not have to be....

Mecgar is the OEM for a lot of their mags and they sell $30 or under most of the time. Same mag better price.

Sig is gauging the customer.

Bovice
April 22, 2010, 01:53 AM
It's like buying parts for a Mercedes Benz vs a Honda. While the part in question may only be an oil fill cap, which one is going to be more expensive?

JohnBT
April 22, 2010, 09:49 AM
These discussions always remind of an Arnold Jewell magazine interview I read years ago. He was asked why his rifle triggers cost so much.

"They cost what they cost."

I just love a practical person. Well, that, and when I posted a question on benchrestcentral about a couple of his triggers that I owned, he e-mailed me the answer. :)

John

HOWARD J
April 22, 2010, 10:12 AM
I just paid $41.90 del. for a P-238 SS mag.
The gun only came with one...........................

earlthegoat2
April 22, 2010, 10:39 AM
This year old thread was started because Sig announced to the US market they would only be shipping pistols for a short time with one magazine. Since their pistols (and every other manufacturers pistols) were selling so quickly they screwed up and did not compensate on magazine production. Instead of lowering the amount of pistols shipped they lowered the amount of magazines shipped. This is a business no brainer in the gun industry since the majority of profit is made on the actual pistol itself and not so much on magazines hence the reason why extra factory mags are so expensive. They dont really want to sell them. They want them in reserve at their warehouse so they can quickly ship some out to a government military or police force if they request them in enough bulk that will justify a sale. Yes another case of H und K syndrome.

The burner is they did not lower their price to compensate and they did not offer a coupon or rebate or anything. They just simply gave less to the consumer for the same (or higher) price. Just like Apple Jacks all of the sudden coming in 22oz boxes instead of 24oz.

Odd thing is that the Sigs were still selling just fine. A testament to the uninformed consumer or more probably a case of the "I have to have this pistol because the cops do" mentality.

uspJ
April 22, 2010, 10:55 AM
Forget the Sig and get an XD. You'll get 2 mags and have extra money to buy more!

don't forget about the belt holster and mag holster as well.:)

rellascout
April 22, 2010, 12:34 PM
It's like buying parts for a Mercedes Benz vs a Honda. While the part in question may only be an oil fill cap, which one is going to be more expensive?

You clearly do not understand who makes Sigs mags. Sig does not make them. They outsource them. Many of the P series mags are made by Mecgar.

Sig sells the P226 mag for $50+ Mecgar sells the same mag for $28 to $20. It is a direct apples to apples comparison.

To use your example I can buy an MB Oil filter kit from the dealer for $40 or I can go online and buy a Mahle or Bosch which are OEM parts for MB, like the mecgar is for Sig, and pay $20.

It has nothing to do with cross brands or nameplates. It is not about MB vs Honda it is about MB markings vs the straight OEM product labeled by the actual manufacture.

MattTheHat
April 22, 2010, 03:57 PM
Maybe I'm a lunatic, but I've never made a pistol purchase decision based on the number of magazines I'd get.

And I don't personally see a problem with Sig selling their magazines for more than you can purchase them for elsewhere--same manufacturer or not. Are they somehow trying to demand the user buy theirs? (As in, use our mags or void your warranty.) If not, I just don't see the problem. It's like anything else, shop around.

I saw "genuine" BHP magazines on the shelf a few months back for something crazy, like $79.95. So I didn't buy one. I went home and ordered a "genuine" BHP magazine from Brownell's for less than half that.

If there were no "outrageous" prices, there would be no deals.


-Matt

conhntr
April 22, 2010, 10:55 PM
I don't understand why mags need to cost over 20$ and am a bit of a glock fanboy. That said with most ammo 24/50c a round I'm pretty sure magazines are not the cost issue.

SharpsDressedMan
April 22, 2010, 11:51 PM
Gosh. If I was president of SIG, I'd announce that all guns would be shipped with one mag, but that the second mag would be shipped FREE at a later date, when they became available, and that a $20 coupon would accompany it for any other SIG product as an apology for having to wait for the mag.

HGUNHNTR
April 23, 2010, 12:13 AM
Sheesh, who cares. Sigs quality is why I buy their guns, not the number of mags they come with. If I have to pay a bit more, so be it. I am not going to settle for a lesser quality firearm because of something so trivial.

jon_in_wv
April 24, 2010, 09:22 AM
I never understood people whining and moaning because mags for a certain gun cost 20, 30, or even 40 bucks. BOO HOO. Try buying mags for a Bersa 9mm. They were over 50 bucks when I had one. You lucky if you can find mags for 50 bucks for my H&K P7. If you MUST have cheap mags then buy a different gun. You act like it says in the Constitution that you have a right to cheap mags and Sig is somehow violating your rights. I understand why if company A is selling something at one price you have to whine that company B has to do the same. Buy it from company A and quit whining.

ir3e971
April 24, 2010, 11:43 AM
Jon in wv,

I do factor in cost of magazines into a purchase. For precisely the same reason you brought up. First new pistol I ever purchased was also a Bersa 9mm.

Lesson learned for me was that the supporting equipment costs have to be considered in your purchase decision to determine "actual" value.

jon_in_wv
April 24, 2010, 12:00 PM
exactly, it is just one factor in the price of owning and operating the weapon. I don't know why some people would buy the weapon then whine about what the support equipment costs. Thats like buying a truck and then whining about its gas mileage. That is something you look at before you buy it.

AKElroy
April 24, 2010, 12:12 PM
"They cost what they cost."

Finally. This consumer activism stuff is ruining my calm. They raised their price $40. Big deal. Guns are in demand, high demand = higher prices. Every home owner in this forum will be asking every penny for their home that the market will allow when they get ready to sell, but somehow that reasoning does not apply to our hobby. Wrong.

If you want the quality of a Sig, you get to pay a little more for the privelige. Accept it, or buy something else. When companies become stronger, our access to products benefits. I want a strong Sig, S&W, Glock, SA, etc..

Profit = longevity in the marketplace. When the hell did profit become a negative in a free, capitalist country? They don't make these types of decisions in a vaccum. If they were not certain it would not have a detrimental effect on sales, they would not do it.

earlthegoat2
April 24, 2010, 12:17 PM
I don't know why some people would buy the weapon then whine about what the support equipment costs. Thats like buying a truck and then whining about its gas mileage. That is something you look at before you buy it.

Better stop talking all of this common sense stuff. We wont need new threads otherwise.

:evil:

harmon rabb
April 24, 2010, 01:24 PM
did they lower the price by $35 then? no. of course not.

Howaido
April 24, 2010, 01:43 PM
Glock.

JohnBT
April 24, 2010, 03:04 PM
Jeez, they started shipping with 2 mags again last June. Of 2009.


From a letter to dealers:

June 3, 2009

To Our Valued SIGnificant Dealers:

In an effort to continue an uninterrupted supply of handguns for your shelves, SIG SAUER, Inc. has instituted a program to ship our Classic pistols with one magazine. Your response has been overwhelmingly positive. Most dealers have thanked us for enabling them to better satisfy their customer's needs in a more timely manner, SIG SAUER, Inc. is pleased to help deliver profitability to your stores whenever possible.

The market demand has remained high; however, SIG SAUER, Inc. has found ways to increase magazine production. We are pleased to announce that Classic guns manufactured after June 3, 2009 will ship with two magazines once again. Inventory manufactured prior to June 3, 2009 (date is on the box label) will continue to ship with one magazine. Dealers existing inventories will not be adjusted.

Thank you for your support during these unusual and challenging times. We look forward to serving you throughout the remainder of 2009 and wish you continued success.

Salty1
April 24, 2010, 07:33 PM
For any of you Sig P238 owners, get the colt mustang mags from CDNN, they work fine and they even have an extended mag with a place for your small finger and an additional round. People who buy Sig's know that they get 1 mag, if they don't like it they can be like everybody else and buy a Glock and be part of the "me too" crowd.........

jon_in_wv
April 24, 2010, 10:29 PM
One thing you have to accept is that when Macgar makes the mags for Sig they put a pretty Sig logo on the side of the mags. Sig will charge more for the mags and generally when you sell you weapon with factory mags its better than selling it with aftermarket mags even if they are the same thing. Its the nature of the beast. Also, I went on Mecgars website and they didn't have mags for my P220 listed. Mecgars mags for other Sigs ran about $10 bucks cheaper than the Sig mags. Personally, I don't find that so out of line. I wish ALL mags were cheaper but then I paid almost $800 bucks for the P220. I wish that would have been cheaper. 45 acp ammo is more expensive than 9mm. I wish 45 ammo was cheaper too.

Heck I think Remington charging $36 for a box of 20 Golden Sabers is a much more heinous crime. Does it REALLY cost that much to make??? I'm a lot more peeved by that then paying the extra ten bucks for a Sig logo on a mag.

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