Subdivide Rifle forum?


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jim in Anchorage
March 19, 2009, 10:16 PM
But I think two forums on rifles are needed.One on real rifles,the other on the endless cast aluminum/stamped sheet metal AK and AR-15 posts.

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41 magnum fan
March 19, 2009, 10:19 PM
I agree.

JImbothefiveth
March 19, 2009, 10:21 PM
I don't. I think that this way the "tacticool" people will see the "sporting threads, and the "sporting" people will see the "tacticool" threads, resulting in faster answers.

husker
March 19, 2009, 10:25 PM
i like both types and love bouncing all over the rifle country reading all i can about both. then i have to jump to get over to black powder and look at all those colt WALKERS

helz_mcfugly
March 19, 2009, 10:27 PM
what would you say was a real rifle? maybe a M1 Garand?

sharkhunter2018
March 19, 2009, 10:30 PM
I guess someone is tired of seeing "AR" or "AK" every other thread. :neener:

husker
March 19, 2009, 10:31 PM
HELZ wana thank you for the the vid. it helped me. cant wait to make the drive and the right of passage. look out state troopers!!! the fastest way to cmp from Omaha is a 110 miles an hour

benzy2
March 19, 2009, 10:31 PM
Here is a suggestion to avoid all those threads.... Don't click on them? Pretty simple.

MMCSRET
March 19, 2009, 10:32 PM
I like the one forum concept. That way I can intentionally avoid every thread that I have no interest in with out having to screen another forum. One does it all!!!!!

helz_mcfugly
March 19, 2009, 10:34 PM
u'r welcome man. take pictures while you are there to make the garand nuts drool

helz_mcfugly
March 19, 2009, 10:40 PM
wanna talk about only "real" rifles go here http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=19

wanna talk about AR's or AKs go here www.ar15.com

wanna talk about everything firearms? take the high road , RAH

Bearhands
March 19, 2009, 10:42 PM
Well, I have to agree in a most sincere and non-threatening way...

The "EBRs" as some call them or "tacticool" as others do, should really have a forum dedicated to that type of firearm (just my opinon).
Too many threads that interrupt the conventional sporting type rifle posts are lost/"bounced down" via multi-posts about a totally different subject. No sour grapes here, I just wish that I didn't have to search for a thread that has been active but not AS active as the "black rifle" posts. It's not a popularity contest that we strive for, it's good information and shared likes that keep us all coming back!

maskedman504
March 19, 2009, 11:02 PM
More like a bolt action forum and a sem-auto forum a la "Revolvers" and "Semi-Auto".

"The AK-47; the only viable Russian commodity export, other than vodka."

hso
March 19, 2009, 11:05 PM
Ok, the guy asked a reasonable question.

Let's not babble on about ARs vs AKs vs Garands vs Winy 70s (pre 64 only).:rolleyes: Matter of fact, lets save those for the Rifle forum (whatever it's form). So if your post somehow drifted off it's because he's got a serious enough question to not derail it.

First off, why? What would be the benefit to the community from splitting them into different forums?

Javelin
March 19, 2009, 11:16 PM
I vote for a black rifle forum too. To discuss black rifle related goodness.

:)

Larry Ashcraft
March 19, 2009, 11:17 PM
moderators may ban me on this.
Not likely.

Actually, we've discussed this before in Staff, and will again. The issue is a balance between keeping the forums fairly simple, and at the same time making them user-friendly for the different interests.

Member input is welcome and invited. How (and why) do you think rifles should be sub-divided?

kingpin008
March 19, 2009, 11:19 PM
Personally, I don't spend much time in Rifle Country, but I think it's fine how it is. Sub-dividing the forum would only cause unnecessary confusion, for little possible gain.

husker
March 19, 2009, 11:22 PM
i dont think they should be! i love both and love being able to read about both without jumping forums like i have to do. to talk about black powder. it aint broke in my opinion any way.

Larry Ashcraft
March 19, 2009, 11:36 PM
OK, I've added a poll. Please vote.

sohcgt2
March 19, 2009, 11:47 PM
We have 3 handgun forums: general, revolver, and semi. why not do the same with rifles? general rifles, sporting rifles, and tactical rifles. How does rate of twist affect trajectory would be a general question, AK vs AR tactical, and Marlin vs BLR goes to sporting. I don't know, its just a thought.

husker
March 20, 2009, 12:01 AM
bump

FlyinBryan
March 20, 2009, 12:13 AM
Member input is welcome and invited.


but does it have an impact on what happens?

jim in Anchorage
March 20, 2009, 12:27 AM
bearhands you put it best. I hate it when I see a "best powder 25-06" or what ever and by the time I get to it it's on page 3,buried under AK and AR posts.

CH47gunner
March 20, 2009, 01:05 AM
Seperate 'em.

One forum for Sporting firearms and another forum for Tactical rifles. Maybe even a third for classic military stuff like Garands, Mausers, & Mosins.

I too get frustrated with the abundance of posts of Saigas, AK47's, & AR15's. I appreciate a nice AR15 and have owned them in the past, I might even buy another one. I know how accurate and effective they are. It's just not what I do.

Bruce

JWF III
March 20, 2009, 01:55 AM
First off, why? What would be the benefit to the community from splitting them into different forums?


Some one had already stated my reason for wanting it, too many good post get buried under "AR vs. AK vs. SKS" , "DPMS vs. Bushmaster", or "Look at my new (insert accessory of choice here)" type threads.

Maybe even a third for classic military stuff like Garands, Mausers, & Mosins.


That's an idea. But I think that that is going a little too far. If it was just broken up between "Modern Tactical Rifles" and "Modern Sporting Arms/Antique Arms", that would be my ideal choice.

If there was to be a third subforum, maybe not limit it to classic military. Just make it an "Antique Rifle/Classic Military Rifle" type thread. Go ahead and lump in antique sporting arms with the antique military arms. Or just make it a C&R Rifle only forum, and not allow even reproductions of C&R rifles in it. Put the repros in modern sporting. But then repro owners might feel as if they're being shunned by antique owners.

It's a very slippery slope when you start breaking it up to far.

But I definently wouldn't want Garands, Enfields, Mausers, etc. to be lumped in with the modern tactical forum.

Wyman

B yond
March 20, 2009, 01:56 AM
I have another suggestion.

I think we should separate rifles into subforums similarly to handguns; based on action.

-Semi-Auto rilfes
-Bolt Action Rilfes
-Lever Action Rifles
-Pump Action Rifles
-Full-Auto Rifles

Maybe combine full/semi auto and bolt/lever/pump action.

Definitely leave a general rifle forum too.

Bearhands
March 20, 2009, 07:26 AM
First off, why? What would be the benefit to the community from splitting them into different forums?
1.User friendliness,
2. "too many good post get buried under "AR vs. AK vs. SKS" , "DPMS vs. Bushmaster"
3. The amount of "black" rifles being currently being made/modified seems to justify it.


Personally, I don't spend much time in Rifle Country, but I think it's fine how it is. Sub-dividing the forum would only cause unnecessary confusion, for little possible gain.

I too, don't spend much time in the Rifle forum BECAUSE of the confusion and inabiltity to find the last thread on a sporting rifle that is now buried under post after post re: "black rifles".

"I too get frustrated with the abundance of posts of Saigas, AK47's, & AR15's. I appreciate a nice AR15 and have owned them in the past, I might even buy another one. I know how accurate and effective they are. It's just not what I do."

I have also noticed that in a "one forum" mode, many posts about the "other type" of rifle seems to always get derailed when someone offers a suggestion to "go tacticool" etc.. Having 2 (or more) specific forums would eliminate the derailment factor.
Again, I am not trying to flame or suggest one type of rifle is better or more suited to discuss but having separate forums would certainly seem to benefit each group.

Lastly, I'd like to thank jim in anchorage for bringing up this subject and the Mods for giving it an ear :)

bikerdoc
March 20, 2009, 08:18 AM
I own all types of rifles. I voted to keep it the same for 2 reasons.

1 - one stop shopping for all my rifle info

2 - Newbies, click in, read, get introduced to all kind of new stuff.

Also, do forget we have a search function for specific questions.

Just my .02, keep the discusion going.

MMCSRET
March 20, 2009, 08:33 AM
I voted for the single forum and I do own a black rifle, it is a sporterized M98 done up in black!!!!!!!!

helz_mcfugly
March 20, 2009, 09:21 AM
yea I vote for semi/full auto and bolt/single shot

hso
March 20, 2009, 10:21 AM
Here's something to think about for ya'll, do we play into the hands of the antis by splitting out the EBRs from other semiauto rifles?

dirt_j00
March 20, 2009, 11:28 AM
Yes, hso, I think we do.

Let's turn the question around and ask:

If "sporting rifles" were currently all the rage, would there be this same movement to seperate them out from the rest of the herd?

This seems to me (IMHO) that the ARhaters are getting their panties in the proverbially wad over the recent AR influx. Now we have rifle-snobs too!

Bearhands
March 20, 2009, 11:55 AM
Here's something to think about for ya'll, do we play into the hands of the antis by splitting out the EBRs from other semiauto rifles?

I don't believe so.
Making yet another forum (thus adding more participating members) seems like it encourages more gun owners of all types to join THE HIGH ROAD.... I cannot see how an anti would surmise victory or feel they had "the upper hand" seeing another gun forum of any kind.

This seems to me (IMHO) that the ARhaters are getting their panties in the proverbially wad over the recent AR influx. Now we have rifle-snobs too!
Hopefully you did not come to such a conclusion from reading my former posts. The fact that you generalize and single out "ARhaters" as folks that are "rifle snobs" is EXACTLY what the anti's thrive on. It actually looks like you are making the case FOR them by supposing there are "panties in a wad" in a group of people who appreciate firearms.

rc109a
March 20, 2009, 12:06 PM
I like the idea of semi and bolt forums. I own both, but this would make it easier to find what I am looking for..

dirt_j00
March 20, 2009, 12:10 PM
Hopefully you did not come to such a conclusion from reading my former posts. I did not. I really didn't even "come to any conclusion", I simply looked at how the OP framed the question & opined (emphasis added):

...One on real rifles,the other on the endless cast...

This topic had an AR/AK-bashing slant to it from the start, no?

Now to address your next statement:
The fact that you generalize and single out "ARhaters" as folks that are "rifle snobs" is...

Doesn't AR-hater = rifle snob? Just as much as Rem. 700-hater = rifle snob? That's all I was saying.

...in a group of people who appreciate firearms. Going back to the OP, it appears there is a certain group of people who do NOT appreciate certain types of firearms (in this case ARs/AKs), thus the request/need/want for a seperate forum.

Again, I did not post in response to any of your posts. I only attempted to address the OP statement.

I'll agree to disagree though!

JImbothefiveth
March 20, 2009, 12:14 PM
do we play into the hands of the antis by splitting out the EBRs from other semiauto rifles? I think so. It makes people believe that they are very different from other semi-autos, especially for new people.

My only rifles are rimfires, a bolt action and a stock 10/22. I still think it would be a bad idea.

What about a sub-forum in hunting, for sporting rifles? There will still be a few ARs in there, just a lot fewer.

lebshiff21
March 20, 2009, 12:16 PM
I'd like it separated.

Bearhands
March 20, 2009, 01:00 PM
This topic had an AR/AK-bashing slant to it from the start, no?
AGREED, however since that post, the thread has evolved into a less combatant nature IMHO.
Doesn't AR-hater = rifle snob? Just as much as Rem. 700-hater = rifle snob? Then do 1911 haters = handgun snobs?..(personally, I don't hate any guns in the hands of a responsible person.)

...and why is there a forum for Handguns, Revolvers and Auto-Loaders? Should they be combined or is it ok the way it is? Just asking! I'm sure the handgun folks appreciate not having to wade thru/search other people's different type requests/likes/wants the same way different type rifle owners would.

I'll agree to disagree though!
I agree too...And I thank you for the gentleman-like discussion.
BH

Six
March 20, 2009, 01:32 PM
We have 3 handgun forums: general, revolver, and semi. why not do the same with rifles? general rifles, sporting rifles, and tactical rifles.

Because when I look for information on my Security Six, I know to go to the revolver forum. For the 1911, the semi auto forum. Where do I go to find into on a Mini-14? Well, suddenly it depends what the stock is made of and on how many accessories I've bolted on...

It'd make far more sense to me to separate the rifle forums into the operating mechanism, just like the handgun forms:

Rifle - General
Rifle - Bolt, lever, pump etc
Rifle - Automatics of all types.

dirt_j00
March 20, 2009, 02:36 PM
I thank you for the gentleman-like discussion.
+1 :)

If the rifle forum is sub-divided, then I agree with Six though, and think they should be categorized by operating mechanism, not appearance/function (i.e. sporting, tactical, military, hunting, range, home defense, whatever).

If this does go down, will the forum re-structuring end with the rifles, or are shotguns next?

Also, it seems more forums would mean more work for the mods...

Daizee
March 20, 2009, 03:02 PM
It'd make far more sense to me to separate the rifle forums into the operating mechanism, just like the handgun forms:

* Rifle - General
* Rifle - Bolt, lever, pump etc
* Rifle - Automatics of all types.


I agree.
Separating by purpose is not valid, as it presumes you can accurately predict/project a single purpose onto a specific gun. There is no one-to-one mapping.

By action-type is accurate and natural.
Fixed-breech vs. semi/auto is probably the broadest brush one could reasonable paint with and keep everybody happy.

-Daizee

WNTFW
March 20, 2009, 03:28 PM
Mods,
Go ahead and do what y'all think is best. No matter what it won't be right:neener:

How hard would it be to separate existing post into the correct subforum or would you leave them alone & let only new post be separated?

I also assume it would be easy to re-combine the subforums into 1 if it didn't work out.

I voted separate due to the sheer volume. I like both kinds of rifles (there are only 2 kinds right)

I know it gets tiresome for the old salts to hear the same questions repeated. New guys need to ask though and the search function is under utilized. Stickys are also not read. Mission statements (the goal or point of the forums) would be a nice touch - may not get read either.

Thanks for asking for member input.
WNTFW

Owen
March 20, 2009, 03:46 PM
I think its an artificial division. Then I think the revolver/autoloader division in handguns is artificial too.

I'm still surprised people notice the forum divisions at all. Don't we all just hit "New posts?" at the top?

DesmoDucRob
March 20, 2009, 03:51 PM
I vote: keep it the same. I'm relatively new here compared to most folks and I appreciate stumbling across new/foreign ideas from time to time. I also can think of more than a hand-full of rifles that are in that "grey area".

MMCSRET
March 20, 2009, 05:20 PM
Wait a minute: The defense of EBR has always been that we just use them for sport. Now you want to separate AR from sport? How is a moderator going to know if you have a "sporter" AR when you open a thread in the sporter forum? Or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This becomes clear, like MUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rbernie
March 20, 2009, 06:50 PM
I think that subdividing our community reduces its potential bond and affinity and cohesiveness.

I am NOT a proponent of splitting the Rifle forum.

redneck2
March 20, 2009, 08:01 PM
I've quit going to several other forums for this very reason. They've got lever rifles, pump rifles, AR's, collectibles, non-collectibles, bolt rifles, single shots, non-single shots, wood stock, non-wood stock, small bore, medium bore, large bore, super large bore......

OK, so maybe that's an exaggeration, but you get the idea. No matter how you divide it, some gets cheated. It's awful.

So, I've got an idea that I personally use. If it doesn't interest me, I don't click on it.

jim in Anchorage
March 20, 2009, 08:03 PM
I do not think splitting the forum is going to create some sort of "me vs them" mentality. As far as strict 2nd amendment issues,the military style owners could probably make a case that they are closer to the framers intent then I am with my old Winchesters. It was about defense[country or self] that it was all about,after all,not hunting.But the current forum makes as much sense to me as combining 4 wheel and off road with road and track magazines. I do not want the table of contents cluttered up with mustang articles when I looking to put 44 inch tires on my truck, or vis-versa. I think some earlier posts made categories much to complex-I would go with semi-auto-other.

sohcgt2
March 26, 2009, 10:44 PM
six suggested
We have 3 handgun forums: general, revolver, and semi. why not do the same with rifles? general rifles, sporting rifles, and tactical rifles.

Because when I look for information on my Security Six, I know to go to the revolver forum. For the 1911, the semi auto forum. Where do I go to find into on a Mini-14? Well, suddenly it depends what the stock is made of and on how many accessories I've bolted on...

It'd make far more sense to me to separate the rifle forums into the operating mechanism, just like the handgun forms:
Rifle - General
Rifle - Bolt, lever, pump etc
Rifle - Automatics of all types.
te:

You're right, my way suggested purpose rather than design. I like your way better.

JShirley
March 27, 2009, 04:32 PM
I have suggested in the past that any division should be based on action, probably:

bolt-action
self-loaders
pumps, levers, singles and doubles

or

bolt-action
self-loaders and slide-actions
levers, break-actions, and others

But you can all probably see just from that breakdown that it could get confusing or cumbersome...

John

Babarsac
March 27, 2009, 09:29 PM
I would like to see them seperated out between semi-auto and all the others. Just two subdivisions would be fine.

rbernie
March 27, 2009, 10:02 PM
I detest the idea of subdividing the Rifle forum. But then again, if it were up to me I'd collapse the Handgun forums into one. :)

TimboKhan
March 28, 2009, 12:57 AM
I have long advocated a seperate milsurp forum, even more so since Surplus Rifles ceased being an ongoing concern, but the more I think about it, the less I want it, in large part because I have come to like the diversity of the topics.

SciFiJim
March 28, 2009, 02:02 AM
I think there should be a split, but not between "black" rifles and "sporting" rifles. It should be like the hand gun forums. General, Autoloaders, and Boltie/Lever.

Brian Dale
April 2, 2009, 04:02 PM
I appreciate having the rifle threads together in one place. It's easier to see the topics that interest me without going to yet another forum. I also have a hunch that there are people sharing wisdom about many types of rifles, and how to shoot well, who might otherwise spend much of their rifle-oriented posting time in just one forum or the other.

Do EBR shooters profit when a guy who hunts with bolt rifles and double rifles writes a piece on how to become familiar with shooting a new rifle in the field? (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=408851) Sure.

Do hunters profit when Highpower shooters discuss how to get a really stable sitting position? I know that I have (in my case, I happen to like both pursuits).

Especially in light of past gun bans, the recent black rifle buying frenzy giving rise to great deals on rifles in blue steel and wood, and the Zumbo affair, I like having a single forum for rifle shooters.

Rifle Country is a good place to live.

JohnBT
April 2, 2009, 04:49 PM
If you have to split them, and I don't want to, then why not do it by price: Cheap rifles and Expensive rifles.

;)

rbernie
April 2, 2009, 04:55 PM
Long ones and short ones.

Light ones and heavy ones.

I want a subforum for pink ones.

Brian Dale
April 2, 2009, 05:03 PM
The M1s forum...and the Everything Else forum.

:evil:

Six
April 2, 2009, 06:58 PM
I want a subforum for pink ones.

Are there any others?

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 2, 2009, 07:03 PM
No, the rifle forum need not be split, IMO.

But I think there SHOULD be a "General Long Gun Forum" for combo guns, drillings, and questions about choosing between a rifle and shotgun for certain applications.

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