Kimber 45 CDP Pro misfeeding


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SkippyM
March 20, 2009, 01:46 AM
Hi to all. New around here, novice with semi-auto handguns. Bought a Kimber .45 CDP Pro II new in Sept 2008. I clean/lube the gun "by the Kimber manual" every 150 rounds or so. Using 230 gr FMJ American Eagle and Blazer rounds (not +P) at the firing range, we had about 10% randomly timed misfeeds through first 500 rounds and chalked it up to "break-in". Now we're up to 800 rounds and we're still having misfeeds. Most common misfeed is when the next round doesn't seem to fully clear the top of the magazine, the bullet is tilted mildly downward and the slide stays back. A less common misfeed ends up with next round mid between magazine and chamber tilted upward. Misfeeds happen randomly throughout the magazine with no clear pattern. Two instructors say my form is decent and shouldn't be causing problems. Gun misfed a couple of times with an experienced instructor at the helm. Two local gunsmiths have tweaked the extractor (?) and have found no "problems". Have tried a few changes with following results:

- New 8 round Chip Mc magazine made no difference.
- New 24 lb recoil spring with Chip mag seemed to make problem much worse (although my aim seemed to improve markedly).
- New Wilson 8 round mag with 24 lb spring made very mild improvement over Chip Mc/24 lb combo.
- Going back to stock 22 lb spring (with about 600 rounds on it) with Wilson mag seemed to give the fewest misfeeds so far.
- Called Kimber, they said it was probably my shooting form, but that I could send it in for checkout.

Everything seems to suggest that the Wilson mag and a 20 lb spring might be a good combo to try. Does this sound "reasonable"? Any risk of damage due to reduced slide control? Anything I'm overlooking? Thanks for any help in advance!!

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smartshooter.45
March 20, 2009, 02:10 AM
i had problems with a pro carry 2 i had bought new last year. it would fail to feed in similar ways yours is now. after doing some reading i found out how to check the extractor tension. my extractor was waaaay too tight. so next was figuring out how to dismantle the slide so i could "tune" the extractor myself. i didnt take any metal off, all i did was carefully bend the extractor in the direction that would put less pressure on the casing.

i also did some reading into feed ramps and found that it helps in many cases to polish the feed ramp on the frame that leads the round from the magazine up to the throat of the barrel. this can be done with a dremel type tool or by hand with some super fine sand paper. take great care in doing either of these things because you can damage your pistol and/or void the warranty.

once i loosened the extractor and polished the feed ramp she ran 100%.

if you want to do some great reading do a search on this forum for posts by 1911Tuner. this guy is a genius when it comes to 1911's. he knows more then we could ever hope to. do some reading first and if you still have questions you can send him a message and hell probably be happy to help you as long as youve done your own reading first. good luck with your new kimber. you will get it working 100% and you will grow to love it. i promise.

2RCO
March 20, 2009, 02:13 AM
Stick with the Wilson Mags they are better for most 1911's than most other Mfgs . Instructors should have noticed if you were limp wristing so that should be out.

Try the Wilson Mags with the Stock Springs. The 22lb springs shouldn't cause any damage. If you are worried about it use a shock buffer on the guide rod.

2RCO
March 20, 2009, 02:15 AM
i also did some reading into feed ramps and found that it helps in many cases to polish the feed ramp on the frame that leads the round from the magazine up to the throat of the barrel. this can be done with a dremel type tool or by hand with some super fine sand paper.

Although it might be what your gun needs--DON'T DO IT YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless you really know what you are doing or you can make your problems much worse.

Lone_Gunman
March 20, 2009, 03:50 AM
Once again, a Kimber jams.

A few thoughts:

Short barrelled 1911s jam more often than 5" barrels

Kimbers jam more often than most other 1911s

Short barrelled Kimbers are a particularly bad combo.

The 500 round break in is a big Kimber lie. It didnt work for you, and it doesnt work for most people.

I doubt this is your shooting form. But I am not surprised the so called customer service people at Kimber told you that. They are some of the most useless people on the planet. Do not bother sending your gun back to Kimber. They will not be able to fix it. You have 2 options: find a real gunsmith who works on Kimbers or just sell the damn thing and buy a better gun.

zt77
March 20, 2009, 05:58 AM
jeez this is as bad as people mouthing S&W mp-15's....

JDGray
March 20, 2009, 06:40 AM
I love it! Kimber CC says its you not the gun, without seeing it! Send it back, and let them get it right. Mine runs 100%, on the one mag that came with it, as it should;)

smartshooter.45
March 20, 2009, 08:20 AM
my experience with kimber's customer service was quite satisfactory. i accidentally stripped a grip screw bushing out of the aluminum frame on my pro carry 2. i called up kimber and told them what happened. i was told that as long as i followed the instructions for a warranty repair it would be repaired at no cost.

Alas i sent it to kimber and it was returned fixed at no cost to me. i am a happy customer.

Lone_Gunman
March 20, 2009, 09:10 AM
Its good to know the apes in Kimbers customer service department are able to change out a screw. I am a little surprised they could do that. But I have sent a total of three Kimbers (out of 5 I have owned over the years) to them to see if they could get them running correctly, and they could not.

geronimo509
March 20, 2009, 09:24 AM
I have a kimber UCII and it had a couple problems in the first 300 rounds. After that it was just perfect. I have a little over 1300 rounds through it with no problems(after 300). However the Ejector broke, I told kimber that i had been using wilson mags and they said that I may have used the wrong ones and pushed it up too hard. Anyway I send the gun to them and within 2 weeks I have it back. For FREE! The only thing i didnt like was that they test fired it and didnt clean it. But i'm pretty sure a lot of places do that so it didn't bother me too much. I can't help with your problem but I just wanted people to stop bad mouthing kimber. Every major manufacturer has problems. I like glocks, but a police chief called them crap, because of two KB's. It can happen to ANY major manufacturer who produces a large number of guns!

Walkalong
March 20, 2009, 10:01 AM
Call Kimber. They will fix it. My 3" runs 100%, has from round one.

1911shooter
March 20, 2009, 10:11 AM
The kimber is a lie, trade it buy a different pistol in commander length. the short 1911's suck. I have 2 Colt officer ACP's that one runs great from the day i bought it the other wont get through a full magazine without a couple jams, this one needs alot of time to get running. the 1911 was never designed to be anything other then a 5" full size fighting pistol.once everyone started to want smaller they should have looked to another platform. i love the 1911 and own many, but i will never buy anything other then a 5" gun ever again. they are hit or miss and even the best pistols with the exception of a full custom will be unreliable. And when you throw Kimber in there it gets worse.

mr2guru
March 20, 2009, 10:42 AM
My 3" kimber ran better than any other 1911 (out of 6) I've owned.

chihuahuatn
March 20, 2009, 11:02 AM
Had the same problem with mine you can read about it here
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=185692&highlight=chihuahuatn

Get a "Wolff Improved XP Recoil Spring" and Wilson mags, fixed my problem.....1k after spring change no issues. Hope this helps...Mike

rbernie
March 20, 2009, 11:27 AM
I would try an 18lb or 20lb recoil spring. I would also try the Colt SP572491 7rd tapered-lip magazines. You might also use the 11lb Wolff magazine springs in your magazines.

I am of the impression that the stock recoil spring rate should be 18lb. Going heavier may cause the feed issues because the slide is trying to come forward before the next round is properly positioned.

ndh87
March 20, 2009, 11:39 AM
Look at your slide stop lever, see if there is a brass spot on it where the rounds in the mag brush it as they come up. Had a problem with my 5 inch going to slide lock on a not empty mag. After stoning down that point the problem is gone. Apparently Kimber can send you a replacement to fix the problem if you dont want to tinker with your stock one.

osteodoc08
March 20, 2009, 12:45 PM
Wow, everyone is so quick to bad mouth Kimber...for various reasons. To those who have actually owned one and had problems, this comment does not apply.

I have a Kimber CDP Pro II as well and it has shot perfect since day one out of the box. With well over 1K rounds through her, I have full confidence. Sorry to hear your experience was not the same.

If "tuning" the extractor does not work, then ship her off.

Joshu
March 20, 2009, 12:53 PM
Mike, I think thats a perfect example of why we should always be leary of the tendency to fall into The Manufacturer-Knows-Best mindset. Although this would seem to make perfect sense, its often a logical fallacy. There might be a considerable gap between what they know and what they say, company policies often exist to keep employees from using their better judgement. For any business to be successfull, decisions must always be made with an eye on the bottom line. The cost of material, a manufacturing processes, customer service, research, etc; all these things can make or break either the company's budget or reputation. Which companies are trying to build a reputation, which ones are trying to maintain the one they have, and which are merely selling the last generation's hard work? It can be quite hard to tell. It can be almost painful to let go of a brand you have trusted for so long.

I remember my grandfather and father taking pride in their Craftman handtools. They were well built and they had an ironclad lifetime warranty. When it came time to move out and buy my own tools, I bought a 400 or so piece Craftsman mechanics set. I expected the same tools I had used all my life. At least I have the warranty. The tools aren't terrible, they are perfectly functional. They just aren't anywhere near the same quality. Side by side, compared to Dad's, they look like toys or house brand.

You can buy a name, you can buy a warranty, or you can buy quality. If you can find all three in one product these days, you've found a rare thing. If you can afford all three, you might be in a better postion than most.


All that said; I own a Kimber.
A Kimber Pro TLE. I fired 500 rounds of Winchester 230 gr FMJ whiteboxed in a hundred a piece care a Wal-mart without a problem of any kind. I started changing things arround, had a minor difficulty or two and worked them out. Bone stock however it functions flawlessly, with anything you can manage to shove in it. With $9 magazines. Purposely limp wristing it. Letting the girl friend shot it. Doesn't matter. It is the most reliable firearm I have ever owned.

Is it absolutely perfect? No. It shoots low 1 1/2" low right at 25 yards from a ransom rest. The finish started wearing off the moment it left the show case. I can't replace the fixed sights easily, Kimber uses their own oddball cut. Is it completely perfect? Again, no. Am I completely satisfied? Yeah. For what I paid for it, its a hellova pistol.

Kruzr
March 20, 2009, 01:01 PM
Is there a reason you aren't using the recommended recoil spring? The factory spring is a full diameter 22# Officers spring. Your other choice is the Wolff recoil spring made especially for the Kimber 4" guns which will give more life than the recommended 800 round replacement interval.

Joshu
March 20, 2009, 01:53 PM
SkippyM; Kruzr and others have suggested the Wolff replacement recoil springs. I can say from personal expereince they are top notch. I have one in mine. And I have some spairs stashed. One thing I will say about them though, they are hard. The first one I put in scratched a nice little line in the guide rod.

I ordered mine straight from Wolff, because Midway was either out, not carried, or just plain confusing me.

StkNbr 32725
Qty 2
Total Description 32725 2 $15.78 KIMBER 4IN PISTOL IMPROVED XP RECOIL SPRING

Sub Total.................:��$15.78
Shipping..................:��$8.55
UPS Fuel Surcharge:��$0.08
Sales Tax.................:��$0.00
ORDER TOTAL.......:��$24.41

Not too bad a price to fix/prevent a problem with something as expensive as a 1911.

Joshu
March 20, 2009, 01:54 PM
Double post

SkippyM
March 20, 2009, 03:28 PM
Is there a reason you aren't using the recommended recoil spring?
I did use the OEM Kimber 22 lb recoil spring for the first 600 or so rounds and experienced on-going FTF's with the bullet jammed against the feed ramp. A shooting range employee recommended a 24 lb spring to reduce the FTF events, but that only made matters much worse. I'm now back to the stock spring (still getting FTF's) and considering a 20 lb version, given the results of the 24 lb test.

SDGlock23
March 20, 2009, 03:46 PM
The first mag I put through my Pro CDP II, there was several instances where the slide would act like it locked back, but a little tap to the rear of the slide caused it to go into batery. Now this was with the Kimber mag. I thought maybe it was my grip, like I may not have been holding it perfect. Ever since, it's been fine.

Now I polish the barrel hood and a few contact points, as that seems to always help, it did with my Kimber 10mm and so far seems to have worked with the new Pro CDP. Reason for this is that what happens when you shoot it a lot, like what Kimber recommends in their 400-500 round break in? Points of contact smooth out a little, making the pistol a little less "tight'. I figured why blow threw all those rounds to get reliability, so a little polishing turned my Kimber 10mm from a jam0matic to being reliable, just by using a little flitz, a cloth, and some elbow grease!

Joshu
March 20, 2009, 04:05 PM
Speaking of magazines, I found this article a neat read. Ya'll might want to check it out.

http://how-i-did-it.org/magazines/index.html

Kruzr
March 20, 2009, 04:12 PM
I would forgo the 20# spring and get the Wolff spring made for the 4"ers.

Directly from Wolff at gunsprings.com:

Wolff Improved XP Recoil Spring
Wolff improved design recoil spring offers higher battery pressure along with a higher recoil rating, providing optimal functioning.
For all Pro Carry and Compact 4" Kimber guns only.
Stock No. 32725....$ 7.89ea

SkippyM
March 20, 2009, 07:31 PM
I would forgo the 20# spring and get the Wolff spring made for the 4"ers.
I'm wondering if the Wolff spring is the same as the 24 lb spring I already tried. Couldn't find a spring rate on the Wolff...

JoeShmoe
March 21, 2009, 12:02 AM
This sounds just like a Kel-Ted thread.;)

rbernie
March 21, 2009, 12:21 AM
The Wolf XP spring is too stiff.

The rounds are failing to feed because the nose isn't getting high enough before the slide slams forward. How is increasing the spring rate going to make that better?

It's not. It makes it worse.

You need a stock spring rate (18lbs) and better mags that get the round up into position and keep it there under the forces of recoil.

Kruzr
March 21, 2009, 12:31 AM
You need a stock spring rate (18lbs) and better mags that get the round up into position and keep it there under the forces of recoil.
The stock spring rate is a 22# Officer's spring, not 18#.

SkippyM
March 21, 2009, 01:46 AM
Pics may help. I pulled the recoil spring and used some dry-fires to best simulate what the FTF's look like.

Ramp after about 800 rounds total - probably 10 - 15% FTF's.
http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/Ramp.JPG

Ramp marked:
- Blue were present at purchase new.
- Red appear to be where ball hangs on vast majority of FTF's. Notice the small "ridge" across the ramp face present at manufacture.
- Green looks like normal feeds.
http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/Ramp_Edit.JPG

Most common FTF shell position:
(Viewed from rear)
http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/FTF1-1.JPG

(Viewed from above)
http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/FTF1-2.JPG

Much less common FTF shell position:
(Viewed from rear)
http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/FTF2-1.JPG

(Viewed from above)
http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/FTF2-2.JPG

Again, these FTF's occur with stock 22 lb and 24 lb recoil springs in Kimber, Chip Mc and Wilson mags (all new parts). The 24 lb spring was by far the worst setup in any of the mags. Stiffer mag spring? 20 lb recoil spring? Send back to Kimber?

SkippyM
March 21, 2009, 03:41 AM
You need a stock spring rate (18lbs) and better mags that get the round up into position and keep it there under the forces of recoil.
The pics above seem to support your theory, but I'm using a stock recoil spring (22 lbs for a 45 Pro) and a new Wilson mag now. Is there a better mag? Do I need a stiffer Wolff mag spring?

EDIT: Wilson literature says frame ramp should be at least 0.350" deep from the top of the frame rails for maximum feed reliability. Mine measures in just under that at around 0.330" - 0.340" deep... I think I found the problem....

Walkalong
March 21, 2009, 10:46 AM
That looks like Kimber needs to fix the ramp and barrel throat, as well as their relationship, but I am no expert. Great pics, by the way. Maybe Tuner will chime in. With pics like that, he could probably tell you in the blink of an eye.

rbernie
March 21, 2009, 11:53 AM
The stock spring rate is a 22# Officer's spring, not 18#.The CDP Pro is a 4" barrel. It should use a 18lb to 20lb spring. The fact that Kimber oversprings it from the factory don't make that right - just makes it so. :)

I no longer have my CDPs, but I ran a 20lb Wolff spring in them when I did, and had no issues with that. If the OP really wants, he can get the Wolff recoil sping calibration pack and see what he likes out of that selection.

But I'd suggest that a 20lb spring is more than adequate.

Is there a better mag? Do I need a stiffer Wolff mag spring?Yes, and yes.

The Wolff (www.gunsprings.com) XP mag spings are 11lb rated, and are the best spring there is. You put them inside a Colt SP572491 7rd tapered-lip magazine and you'll be amazed at how much less drama and kerChunk! you have in your feeding cycle.

chihuahuatn
March 21, 2009, 12:02 PM
Kimber's Webs site:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/cdp/pro_cdp_II/

Specifications: Height (inches) 90 to barrel: 5.25
Weight (ounces) with empty magazine: 28
Length (inches): 7.7
Magazine capacity: 7
Ambidextrous thumb safety
Carry melt
Recoil spring (pounds): 22.0
Full length guide rod

The chewing up is caused by the metal follower on aluminum frames.....use the Wilson mags. You can read about this here:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=61318

hope this helps........

rbernie
March 21, 2009, 01:16 PM
Kimber's Webs site:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/cdp/pro_cdp_II/
Yes, I know that.. I have owned several myself. As I said in the thread just before yours:

The fact that Kimber oversprings it from the factory don't make that right - just makes it so.But I will bow out and let y'all bandy advice back and forth. Doesn't matter to me so much if the OPs pistol runs, or not. I'm just trying to give you some advice and logic from someone who's BTDT.

Carry on. :)

Sapper771
March 21, 2009, 07:31 PM
I am not an expert on the 1911, but I have had my run around with Kimber, and trust me, it was not a fun one. They told me that I was the problem , not the gun. I explained to them that I had been shooting 1911s since I was 7 and I had 6 years of military experience along with some specialized training with pistols. Kimber then told me that it was my ammo. I explained to them that I had fired winchester, CCI, S&B, Fiochi, remington, UMC, federal, wolf, and blazer brass.
At this point the CS rep was rather irate with me and told me to send it back to them. To make a long story short, after two trips to Kimber, $120 in overnight shipping ( The only option available), and still two jams per magazine no matter what ammo you feed it, I got rid of it. I will never own another Kimber again.
I know my personal experience with Kimber does not help your problem. I would recommend not going through Kimber to get yours fixed. I would talk to 1911Tuner, he is very knowledgeable in the science of the 1911.
You can also try to troubleshoot your problems using this link:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=61238

Either way , good luck , I hope you get it worked out.

Lone_Gunman
March 21, 2009, 07:39 PM
Sapper771 and I have had very similar experiences with Kimber "customer service".

loop
March 22, 2009, 07:32 AM
You probably nullified your warranty with the use of the McCormick mags. I can see where the follower dug into the ramp. If I can see it I suspect the folks at Kimber can see it.

Your issue is one of timing. The slide is going too fast for the mag spring to push a round into the proper position to feed. That indicates a softer recoil spring and/or a stronger mag spring.

This is a simple fix. Go to a lighter recoil spring. If that does not resolve the issue go to a more powerful (Wolff +10) mag spring.

Note: The ramp has suffered significant damage. That is your fault. You did not cease operation when you knew there was an issue.

A feed ramp insert is available from EGW. It will cost about $200 to have it installed.

You and your type of problem are my favorite to run into at gun shows. I can fix it with less than $20 worth of parts and under an hour of my time.

As to those who are disappointed with Kimber's service, why on earth would you send a gun back to the factory unless it is so out of spec and the holes don't line up?

1911s are very simple machines. Just fix it.

And never, ever, feed them crappy ammo like American Eagle or Blazer. That is just asking for trouble.

I can't believe someone would buy a high-end gun and feed it budget ammo. Does that make sense? Like I'll buy a Vette and run it on kerosene.

If you want to sell it I'll give you $200 less than you paid - and sell it for $400 more.

Repeat after me: The 1911 is a very simple machine, the 1911 is a very simple machine...

Lone_Gunman
March 22, 2009, 09:51 AM
Man, loop you have an attitude don't you.

I have never heard of any company voiding the warranty based on the type of magazines you use in the gun. Have you actually seen a company do this, or are you just blowing smoke?

The ramp looks to me like it could probably be polished back into good shape, without using the $200 ramp insert.

I am curious why you think American Eagle or CCI Blazer are too crappy to shoot in a Kimber? I have shot them through higher end guns without a Kimber. They are not the best ammo out there, but they are functional.

As to those who are disappointed with Kimber's service, why on earth would you send a gun back to the factory unless it is so out of spec and the holes don't line up?

1911s are very simple machines. Just fix it.

I guess because most people feel that a company should stand behind their product, and you shouldnt have to pay extra to get a gun to work. Also, not everyone has the skills to diagnose and fix every problem.

You seemed concerned earlier about voiding the warranty because of the magazines. I will guarantee that if you got to working on your gun and installing feed ramp inserts, you will void your warranty. Ever think of that?

highlander 5
March 22, 2009, 10:24 AM
A pistol that's has to have a SPECIFIC brand of magazine to work!!??. I'm no expert by any means but I have 2 1911s a Para LTC and a full size S&W I have used Para,S&W and Wilson mags interchangeably in my pistols and have had no problems with either pistol functioning normally.

rbernie
March 22, 2009, 10:53 AM
The ramp looks to me like it could probably be polished back into good shape,It cannot. The frame is anodized and does not polish well. The metal displaced by the follower is too deep, and the craters cannot be removed without irrevocably and negatively altering the feedramp angles.

Alloy 1911s have an issue with either standard or split followers digging into the bottom of the frame's feed ramp during recoil. The original JMB-created frame and magazine design presumes that steel will be used. When aluminum is used for the frame without altering any of the other intertwined components, this peening of the ramp by the follower is the result.

The three solutions to this problem are either use bullnose followers in the magazines (I prefer the Metalforms, if you go this route), get a steel insert placed into the feedramp, or use a ramped barrel.

All of my alloy 1911 pistols are set up with ramped barrels for just this reason.

Having said all this - the OPs pistol looks servicable and I would simply switch to rounded bullnose followers in the magazines and move on to diagnosing the feed issue.

Lone_Gunman
March 22, 2009, 11:17 AM
The only place I am seeing much metal missing from the ramp is in the blue circle. But I do not believe this should affect function, as it is caused by the metal follower, and I don't think a bullet would even come into contact with that area, would it? I agree that the metal follower is to blame and I have seen this on other 1911s also, including a Colt LW commander that I own, which has an aluminum frame. It does not affect operation though, because the bullet feeds into the chamber above that point, and only to follower makes contact there. The other two areas look like blemishes, that have not resulted in loss of metal. I don't see a reason to spend $200 on a steel insert to correct a problem that should not affect function. Wilson magazines with the plastic follower do not cause this problem in alloy 1911s either and are always a good choice.

SkippyM
March 22, 2009, 07:01 PM
You probably nullified your warranty with the use of the McCormick mags. I can see where the follower dug into the ramp. If I can see it I suspect the folks at Kimber can see it.If you are referring to the dings circled in blue below, I clearly stated that they were present when I bought the gun new (unused) from my Kimber dealer. I pointed them out to the (well established) store owner and he said such marks were common from the factory since they fire test rounds before shipping. I used only the OEM Kimber mag for the first 500 rounds which included many FTF's. After the first 100 rounds (several FTF's), I returned the gun to the dealer gunsmith and asked if the dings could be causing misfeeds. He basically said "no problems, needs to be broken in", "mildly" tweeked the extractor, greased it up with STOS and returned it. Having read the manual cover to cover (500 round break-in period), I chalked it up to break in and kept putting rounds through it and cleaning it to "break it in". At around 500 rounds (still FTF's), I called Kimber and was told it was my form. Asked two shooting instructors at the range and they said my form was decent and shouldn't contribute to FTF's. At the recommendation of local shooting range employees, the Chip M mag and 24 lb spring went in at this time (BTW, the CM mag did not make any observable change in the dings). Problem was worse, so I went with the Wilson mag and stock 22 lb spring which seemed to have greatly improved the FTF rate over a short 50 round session. At about 600 rounds, I took it to a second gunsmith who said the ramp dings shouldn't be causing FTF's and proceeded to "mildly" tweek the extractor.

http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/Ramp_Edit.JPG

Go to a lighter recoil spring. If that does not resolve the issue go to a more powerful (Wolff +10) mag spring.Answers I've been looking for.

Note: The ramp has suffered significant damage. That is your fault. You did not cease operation when you knew there was an issue.Since day one, I've asked Kimber, 2 gunsmiths and 2 shooting instructors about the dings/FTF's... I've tried to follow the advice of everyone that seemed informed without trying to cut budget corners. As I said, I'm a newb.

You and your type of problem are my favorite to run into at gun shows. I can fix it with less than $20 worth of parts and under an hour of my time.Judging by your online attitude to a newb, you wouldn't get any of my business. I'd keep looking for someone that knows how to deal with Kimbers and with people.

And never, ever, feed them crappy ammo like American Eagle or Blazer. That is just asking for trouble.

I can't believe someone would buy a high-end gun and feed it budget ammo. Does that make sense? Like I'll buy a Vette and run it on kerosene.I'm not trying to take a "budget" approach to self defense. I asked my dealer what ammo to use, and that's what he gave me. I tried some Wincheseter and Remington along with American Eagle (all 230 gr FMJ) yesterday - seemed like the AE worked best. I'm open to suggestion.

On a side note, the stock 22 lb spring (probably getting soft by now) and Wilson mag yielded no FTF's (outside operator error) over 250 total rounds of the AE, Winchester and Remington ammo yesterday. Maybe it was a mag or extractor problem all along, but I'll still experiment with a 20 lb recoil spring as a test.

As for buying a Vette, I chose to buy a .45 after reading articles like this (http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/jh_45acp.htm). After checking out dozens of .45's at 4 different dealers, I could have been happy with a few different models, but I chose this one because my wife found it easiest to manipulate - in case of emergency.

SkippyM
March 22, 2009, 07:16 PM
The other two areas look like blemishes, that have not resulted in loss of metal.
Does the "wear" in the red and green circles look excessive for fewer than 1,000 rounds?

Sapper771
March 22, 2009, 09:07 PM
Loop,

Any firearm manufacturer that states that the use of aftermarket magaiznes in a pistol voids the warranty will definitely not be standing behind their products.
Sounds like that is their "escape route" out of helping their customers.
I dont believe this to be true of Kimber, even though I have a very dismal view of them.

Most manufacturers of 1911 style pistols know that the moderate to serious users of the 1911 already have a good collections of high quality magazines, thus it is an understanding.

As far as shooting "crappy" ammo in a high quality firearm, I do it. I do it because I want the security in knowing that my $2200 Wilson Combat CQB will shoot wolf, blazer, and blazer brass. I want to know that my firearm can shoot the "crap" because there very well may be a time where the "crap" is all you can get a hold of.

SkippyM,

I am a simple minded gun plumber, I have nothing more than hands on experience when it comes to 1911's, so in this , I can only offer my simple opinion to your problem.
Like it has been previously stated, if you have a 4" gun, run 18#-20# recoil spring in it. From the looks of your pics, it looks like the slide is forcing the nose of the round into the feed ramp where it locks up and FTFs. I also agree with the posters who stated that a stronger magazine spring should be used. I would suggest wilson combat magazines. I am also a big fan of the fluff and buff . I would take some very fine grit sand paper or emory cloth and polish up the feed ramp on the frame, but not too much. Like stated before, I am no professional.

1911Tuner
March 22, 2009, 10:03 PM
From the looks of the pictures, the problem is stemming from the worn or mis-machined area at the top of the feed ramp guiding the bullet nose straight into the barrel ramp.

That pushes the barrel forward and up prematurely, causing a 3-Point Jam. Since it's an issue with the frame ramp geometry, it's not a fix for an amateur. It should go to a pro for a feed ramp insert.

Chuck Rogers/Rogers Precision or George Smith at Evolution Gun Works
are your best choices for this type of work.

Peakbagger46
March 23, 2009, 01:43 AM
I used to have a 3" Kimber. Did the break-in process, and it still jamed like no other. I WOULD NOT trust my life, be they beautiful and accurate guns as they are, to a kimber. I ended up selling mine at a big loss and bought a reliable sig P239.

SkippyM
March 23, 2009, 01:48 AM
From the looks of the pictures, the problem is stemming from the worn or mis-machined area at the top of the feed ramp guiding the bullet nose straight into the barrel ramp.

If I understand what you're saying, the pictures above are misleading in the way I had the pistol configured (no recoil assembly). Here's a pic with the gun fully assembled, slide locked back, barrel pushed back and 250 additional rounds through the gun - about 1,000 rounds total now since new.

http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/SlideLocked.JPG

I then disassembled the gun and made the measurement you suggested in this post (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=636916#post636916). Barrel flat on frame, arm through link, barrel pushed as far back as possible - caliper is set to 0.032".

http://www.asrcorporation.com/Firearms/Kimber/FTF/SlideDownBack.JPG

Feed ramp - barrel ramp problem?

BTW, the vast majority of FTF's never even got near the barrel; the face of the bullet ball just jammed (pointed slightly downward) against the feed ramp face. It was almost like the slide hit the round too hard or there was too much friction between the feeding bullet and the next - causing the feeding bullet to rotate down rather than feed forward.....

But again, over the last 250 rounds with stock 22 lb recoil spring, Wilson mag, two extractor tweeks (using AE, Rem and Win 230 FMJ), the FTF's seem to have disappeared... Another 250 or so rounds may tell the story.

gmh1013
March 23, 2009, 02:07 AM
Im so glad I got rid of mine a few years ago.... bought it with high hopes but it was a failure.
Sent back 2 times and Kimber could not fix it.

RogersPrecision
March 23, 2009, 02:13 AM
loop,
I'm in Northern Arizona and I believe I have had to repair a number of guns that you 'have worked on'!
:o

SkippyM
March 23, 2009, 02:19 AM
RogersPrecision, see anything obviously wrong/correctable in my post?

JDGray
March 23, 2009, 06:27 AM
I was gonna mention that my UCII looks just like yours at the top, frame to barrel rolled edge. But....Mine has the ramped, bull barrel, and the area is well below where it could hinder feeding. My gun has never jamed in 800+ rounds, but had my bouts with premature slide lock:fire: I removed material off the stop, like it looks you did, too. Kimber just doesn"t finish every gun they sell. Good luck getting yours right.

SkippyM
March 23, 2009, 10:02 AM
I removed material off the stop, like it looks you did, too.No, everything you see there is factory Kimber...

JDGray
March 23, 2009, 04:39 PM
I can't believe someone would buy a high-end gun and feed it budget ammo. Does that make sense? Like I'll buy a Vette and run it on kerosene.

This statement makes no sense:p Kerosene cost more than gas, where I'm from. Kimber is not a high end gun, either, so running WWB in them is ok. Now a Wilson, or Ed Brown, you can only shoot premium PD ammo for practice:rolleyes:

Casefull
March 24, 2009, 10:28 PM
Send it to me and I will fix it. I cannot believe all the reports of these guns not working. If the magazine is ok. How the cartridge is dispensed and the feed ramp is correct it will work like a champ.

Lone_Gunman
March 24, 2009, 10:46 PM
I cannot believe all the whinning about these guns not working.

I am not sure why you can't believe that people are unhappy when they spend $750 to $1000 on a new Kimber and it doesn't work.

For that kind of money, a new gun should not have to go back to the factory to make it run, nor should you have to hire a gun smith to make it reliable.

What part of that are you not able to wrap your mind around???

SkippyM
March 25, 2009, 02:01 AM
I spoke with Kimber again yesterday and told them the whole story. They said send it back (warranty), so I'll probably send it off next week... after a few more test rounds, that is.

Lone_Gunman
March 25, 2009, 11:53 AM
after a few more test rounds, that is.

I think you are wasting ammo.

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