storage tips for HD gun w/ kids in house


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dukefan70
March 20, 2009, 01:44 AM
I read some good stuff on the roomate situation that zeebo419 posted about, but I've been trying to figure out the best fit for me. Situation: First gun (Moss. 500, 20 gauge, 5+1). The idea is for practice/HD. Have a 9 and 11 year old in the house...obviously my first priority along with the rest of the adult family. Not planning on buying anything in the way of a long gun safe/cabinet b/c this is going to be my only gun (at least long gun) for a while. Some options I've thought of:

1. Safety on, empty chamber, 4 or 5 in the tube, trigger lock, soft case/gun sock.
2. Safety on, empty chamber, 4 or 5 in tube, soft case locked.

Also, as far as trigger locks go for middle of the night opening:

Key locks can be used in the dark by feel, but what kind of kid-proof place do you keep the key where you can grab it when you're in your boxers in the dark? Or is a combo lock with a small LED light (one that doesn't scream "Here I am!") the better option?

I know its a lot, but this new guy would sure appreciate any and all practical advice for safety/speedy access.

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takhtakaal
March 20, 2009, 02:07 AM
Expensive, but worth every penny:

Set-up: http://www.santacruzgunlocks.com/setups/complete/916-1.html

Images of universal system, installed: http://www.santacruzgunlocks.com/setups/select/home.html

22LRFan
March 20, 2009, 02:21 AM
My vote is for safety on, empty chamber, 4 or 5 in the tube, lock, soft case/gun sock. Although I recommend a lock more like this one:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2684874

I don't really like trigger locks because I don't like the idea of putting something on the trigger except for my finger when I'm ready to shoot. You can get creative when hiding a key. You could have it hanging or taped underneath a night stand rather than in a drawer. Also the best safety for your children is making them knowledgable about firearms safety.

ThrottleJockey
March 20, 2009, 02:30 AM
Education, Education, Education. Buy your kids a rifle, and a shotgun. Put them through safety/firearm ed. classes. Take them shooting ALL THE TIME. Show them some real life stuff, ie: Shoot things like doors(you can get these on craigs list free) animals(even road kill will work). Take them to an inner city ER so they can hear first hand from doctors about gunshot wounds(maybe even see some). Take them shooting all the time.

This process will teach them safe and responsible habits, at the same time provide QUALITY one on one time with them, and eliminate any and all curiosity(hopefully). Now you have children that should be safe, and aren't curious about the gun in dads closet because they have their own and get to shoot them all the time. If at a friends house and someone stumbles across his dads gun, YOUR child will be the voice of reason, as the curiosity is gone. This is my plan anyways, may need a little tweeking here and there, but I believe it is a good plan provided your children aren't devil spawn(no offense intende, I don't know them).

Impureclient
March 20, 2009, 04:54 AM
Another vote for educating them on what's in the house and how to use it. My son is 10 and he comes shooting with me so
having a gun around isn't some mystery thing that he would get curious about and have an accident. When they respect what
it's capable of they are further along than most adults can be. My son knows where the gun and bullets are so if my house got
invaded and if he had to handle a situation he knows where the tools are. Not all kids can be trusted like that but, once they
get there you will feel much more secure in your house with both the gun/s and some "backup." I feel if you can't trust having
your gun unlocked in your home, then it shouldn't be there in the first place. Even if it is locked up and you can't trust the kids
around it, they will find a way to get to it and then end up on the news.

moooose102
March 20, 2009, 06:41 AM
+1 on the education idea. i beat gun safety into my kids heads every single day. i have that oppertunity because they see my gun(s) every day because i carry all of the time. they know not to touch my guns, but even so, i NEVER let my guard down. you just cant. your situation is tougher. in your situation, i would go and get a long gun safe. just a cheapie, like a stack on. i saw a dented one a few months ago at our local wal-mart for $99.00. just keep your eyes pealed, you can run across something. but in any case, think about how hard it is going to be to live with yourself if one of them does do something dumb by getting ahold of the gun and actually shooting someone. heck, think about it this way, one of your kids get REALLY MAD at the other. in a flash, he/she remembers your gun, goes and gets it and shoots the other one. now, does spending a couple of hundred dollars seem worthwhile to save your kids life?! don't say, "it won't / can't happen. it does, way to often. as for useing it at night for h.d., just get it out of the safe at night, and slip it between the matress and box springs at the edge of the bed. if you need it, it will be very close and handy. you just have to program yourself to put it away every morning. you DO NOT want to live with the guilt of being responsible for one of your own kids death. and you will be if they get ahold of a loaded weapon and use it.

1911Tuner
March 20, 2009, 07:15 AM
Keep the gun on you.

Bailey Boat
March 20, 2009, 07:33 AM
Google the Mossberg site, they have a lockable mount that works pretty good.....

bababooey32
March 20, 2009, 10:11 AM
Keep the gun on you.

:confused: Can you recommend a carry rig for a Mossberg 500? :confused:

TRGRHPY
March 20, 2009, 10:58 AM
You can try running a cable lock through it....key on a small chain around your neck while sleeping...loaded tube, 0 in chamber.

Six
March 20, 2009, 11:13 AM
Take them to an inner city ER so they can hear first hand from doctors about gunshot wounds(maybe even see some).

I'm curious, do you do this for teaching them about your other tools?

Education is important yes, but I still keep a lock on my bandsaw.

For the HD shotgun storage, I'd do a three pronged approach.
Limit access (Top of closet/tall dresser/etc, you know your house).
Keep the chamber empty and safety on.
Use a lock that prevents it both from being removed and keeps the action from being operated.

Edit to clarify:
A trigger lock won't prevent it from being loaded and having the butt whacked against something hard "just to see what'll happen"...

If you need it, you can be ready to go in a few seconds, but it should take some work for kids to get it to a ready state.

If you can find one, you might want to look at the Mossberg Loc-Box
http://www.mossberg.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=95092&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.exe%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates\MossPdgNav\SearchResult.html%26category%3DSECU

Stirling XD
March 20, 2009, 11:24 AM
I concur whole heartedly on the education recommendations. Training should always be your first defense for kids. Some people will tell you that if you do that right, you donít need anything else. For some kids thatís true, but some itís not. I donít know your kids like you do. I also donít know your kidsí friends. Use your best judgment.

A gun safe is the best way to keep criminals from getting your guns, but you may not need that extreme for your kids. Try putting a cabinet lock on a piece of furniture like a night stand or a dresser (depending on where your guns will fit). You could also build a plywood box that will fit your guns and put a cabinet lock on it. Be creative. Good luck.

ThrottleJockey
March 20, 2009, 11:42 AM
"I'm curious, do you do this for teaching them about your other tools? "

No,well actually when they are old enough to reach the gas pedal, yes. I believe shock value has it's place here.

c5_nc
March 20, 2009, 11:51 AM
I don't think there is a good solution to your problem. I keep all my guns in a locked storage room except my one prefered handgun for self defense. That is left open in a drawer. The mags are out of reach. Handguns are also easy to hide loaded and ready, harbor fright has $1.99 magnets that will hold the gun behind a dressor, you can picture frames and even those little stick on lights that have hidden containers for handguns in them.

JImbothefiveth
March 20, 2009, 12:23 PM
I believe the best approach is to carry a handgun, and lock up the shotgun. At night, I leave the shotgun under the bed, usually with an empty chamber. However, the kids in the house are old enough and trustworthy enough I can. If yours aren't, keep a handgun in a safe, maybe with a "simplex" ( think that's what it's called) lock

mr2guru
March 20, 2009, 01:16 PM
Teach your kids about guns and gun safety. Take the curiosity out of them. Give them plenty of opportunity to handle them in a safe manner, to shoot them if they're capable, and to learn respect for the power of them.

Keeping an HD gun locked up is far more irresponsible to your obligations of protecting your family than leaving it unlocked and "dangerous".

My 9yr old son is very well versed and I have no qualms leaving my 1911 (condition 1) in a holster in my nightstand. Or an 870 with an empty chamber in the corner.

Funny story to that effect. I was at a gun show with him and we were walking by a gun safety table with literature and whatnot. The older guy said to my son as we were walking by, "Come here, I have a question for you..." My son looked at me and I gave him the 'I don't know what he wants' look. The guy asked him, "Are any of your dad's guns loaded? Don't look at your dad.... how many are loaded?" My son replied quickly and very matter of factly, "Uh, they are always loaded..... Don't you know the first rule of gun safety? Do you know the other ones?" My son was about to tell him the other ones but the guy cut him off and told him that was the first time any kid had given him the right answer. My son bragged about that the rest of the day. I let him gloat, I was proud too.

dukefan70
March 20, 2009, 02:31 PM
appreciate all the responses, and whole heartedly agree w/ education. Here's the thing (probably should have said this in the first place, but in the interest of space didn't): the kids are my siblings, who are either side of a decade younger than me, and the kids will know about the gun, but probably won't be permitted to handle it let alone shoot it. My father and I respectfully disagree with my mother on most aspects of firearms...she doesn't even like them in the house. The kids are pretty good/responsible kids, but hey they're kids (I was one fairly recently haha). Oh and by the way, if I could fit a hangun into my limited budget I would, but right now the budget is exactly that...limited.

beltjones
March 20, 2009, 06:57 PM
Here's my answer:

1st is education. My dad put the fear of god into me about firearms. He was/is a great man, and a great teacher. He never kept anything locked up, and I never went near it when he wasn't around.

Now that I'm 30, I can see he was dead wrong. Why? Because even if you teach your kids, and they learn everything you teach them, they are still just kids. It is a scientific fact that kids' brains just can't comprehend certain things. Like 16 year olds and understanding danger as it applies to driving their new cars.

So you might have the best "trained" kids in the world, but you can't be around them all the time, and you can't always control who they bring home from school. Some of the brats they bring home might be little Charles Manson types, who are very popular, very charismatic, and downright evil.

The formula for an accident is multiplicative if there are multiple children involved.

I see the OP is really talking about young siblings, but the same principles apply. For practical purposes, it is more likely your sibling/son will bring home some psychopath from school than a grown up psychopath will break into your house in the middle of the night.

I'm not sure what the best answer is (and I KNOW the government doesn't know what the best answer is), but I also know it doesn't just rest with education. You need education and a lock of some kind.

And for dukefan70: Go Tar Heels!!!

WardenWolf
March 20, 2009, 07:03 PM
+1 on Education. At that age, they are old enough to be taught never to mess with your guns. They can also understand death at that age, and know what it means. Then put it high on the wall.

Granted, you have to know your kids. If your kids don't listen to you and don't respect your rules or property, you can't do this. If your kids are properly disciplined for their age, however, you won't even need a lock. Just proper education and warning.

bnkrazy
March 20, 2009, 08:14 PM
Teach your kids about guns and gun safety. Take the curiosity out of them. Give them plenty of opportunity to handle them in a safe manner, to shoot them if they're capable, and to learn respect for the power of them.

That's exactly what we did with our 6 year old. She's been around them so much in a supervised environment, she could care less about them.

Curiosity is the big factor in play here. We have tested her many times with a verified unloaded firearm on the coffee table/sofa/bed while we watched from a closet/webcam/etc. Every time she does as she's been told, and comes to find one of us.

That doesn't mean I'll leave a gun loaded where she can easily get to it, but I'm not concerned about her searching one out to play with. She knows if she wants to see/hold one all she needs to do is ask. And she does. At first it was weekly, then monthly. Now she hardly even glances at it (unless she hits her head on it if I'm CCWing and she gives me an unexpected hug).

With enough exposure it will become like any other object that she knows about but can't play with (knives, matches, etc.). If you keep them away, you'll never satisfy the curiosity.

Still, even though I grew up in a house full of loaded, accessible guns, I keep ours (except for my carry piece) in a state that renders them inoperable for her and our 3 year old.

beltjones
March 20, 2009, 08:33 PM
Education is one thing, but don't underestimate the little Machiavellis your kids might bring home from school. Some of those kids are evil, and you can't be around them all the time. Lock that **** up!

beltjones
March 20, 2009, 08:35 PM
Oh, and if you have discipline (which we all should), you can have the thing unlocked when you're home, and locked when you're gone.

Do you lock the front door when you leave? Yes? Then lock the gun, too. At least as long as you have potentially unsupervised kids around.

Smith
March 20, 2009, 08:36 PM
Funny story to that effect. I was at a gun show with him and we were walking by a gun safety table with literature and whatnot. The older guy said to my son as we were walking by, "Come here, I have a question for you..." My son looked at me and I gave him the 'I don't know what he wants' look. The guy asked him, "Are any of your dad's guns loaded? Don't look at your dad.... how many are loaded?" My son replied quickly and very matter of factly, "Uh, they are always loaded..... Don't you know the first rule of gun safety? Do you know the other ones?" My son was about to tell him the other ones but the guy cut him off and told him that was the first time any kid had given him the right answer. My son bragged about that the rest of the day. I let him gloat, I was proud too.

That's awesome!

dukefan70
March 21, 2009, 12:59 PM
i will do my best to lobby for the most education i can get from the situation, and yes of course i lock the front door and will do so with any firearms.

and for beltjones: although i do like what duke's coach told obama about focusing on the economy instead of his ncaa brackets, i couldn't care much less about basketball...my screen name refers to a great patriotic American named John Wayne, may he rest in peace.

Deanimator
March 21, 2009, 01:10 PM
When I took the NRA instructor's course, one of the first things the lead instructor showed us was just how worthless, and indeed dangerous trigger locks were. Don't believe for one second that you can't fire a firearm with a trigger lock installed. You can. I saw it with my own eyes.

When you're not present, a safe is the best option.
Other options include:
cable lock through the action
purpose built lock which blocks the action/chamber
handcuff through the action (works GREAT for revolvers)
on body carry (for a handgun)

dougiefreshhh
April 24, 2009, 11:17 PM
For a shotgun, I suggest:

1.) Educate, educate, educate.
2.) Visualock system for shotgun.
Go here for video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CULncyHf78
3.) Shotgun under bed, in closet.
4.) Put key on nearby shelf, biometric handgun safe, etc..

With the lock installed, you cant cycle the action.

Leave it loaded.

Anyone else have any experince with Visualock systems?



Unlike a lot of keys, the Visualock is very easy to undo

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