Anyone have experience with a High Standard Model 10 Bullpup Shotgun?


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Cannonball888
March 21, 2009, 11:37 PM
These were way ahead of their time and are collector's items now. I understand that police departments used them in the 70's but they were phased out because of their unreliability. Seems they would be a great car gun if only they were reliable.

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/123346000/123346681/pix174200765.jpg

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ReloaderFred
March 22, 2009, 12:43 AM
I passed on one in the early 1970's for $50.00, because I thought it was ugly. Now I wish I'd bought it, and any others I could have laid my hands on. Young and dumb, as the saying goes.

Fred

Owen Sparks
March 22, 2009, 01:33 AM
Mossberg made a pump bullpup in the 1980's in a similar configuration. It stunk on ice.

Cannonball888
March 22, 2009, 02:07 AM
^ Yup, I don't even understand the reasoning behind a pump-action bullpup---you can't operate it with one hand like a semi-auto.

Fred Fuller
March 22, 2009, 06:07 AM
I have- with the older High Standard 10A, which I bought from a retired LEO in Alabama in the early 1980s. I loved it. It never hiccuped. Everyone who ever shot (and LOTS of different people shot it- everyone who saw it wanted to shoot it) it loved it. It ran fine for all of them also.

I fed it only magnum loads as per the instructions... .

But, a friend in the jewelry business I was working security for on occasion in the early 90's begged for it so long and so hard that I finally sold it to him. I spent a long time missing that gun and kicking myself for selling it. Until I bought another 10A a few weeks ago.

Now that one is off at the Wizard's. We're working on ways to bury a SureFire in the light housing- the light on this one doesn't work, a not uncommon failing among the older model. There already is a pressure switch installed on the right side of the clamshell in the appropriate place, so the gun had been altered before I bought it. I see no reason not to go for an upgrade in the light department.

And we're working on installing a full length magazine tube on this one as well.

There was another 10A for sale on Gunbroker a week or so ago...

Any specific questions?

lpl

Cannonball888
March 22, 2009, 10:32 AM
Any specific questions?
Yes. You mentioned an extended magazine tube. I hadn't thought of that. Do any of the available extention kits fit?

Also have you ever shot the Saiga 12 transformed with a bullpup kit. I was wondering how they compare.

http://xs225.xs.to/xs225/08110/saiga20bullpup403.jpg

4thPointOfContact
March 22, 2009, 01:42 PM
High Standard 10B bullpup

Here's mine - - -

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/unnamed-source/DSC00258-1.jpg

I know what it looks like, but that's NOT rust, it's just a trick of the lighting.
Anything special you would like to know?

Cannonball888
March 22, 2009, 02:12 PM
How's the reliability? Any hiccups?

4thPointOfContact
March 22, 2009, 03:44 PM
Reliability has been 100% so far. HS recommended high-base/Magnum rounds but mine has cycled with regular and even Federal LE132-00 reduced recoil buck and the Fiocchi plated rr buck.

You can't get an extended magazine tube from anywhere, so if you want one you must have it made.

1) Get an extra magazine tube from EGunparts or elsewhere.

2) Have a competent gunsmith put it together with the old tube so that is is a minimum of 18 and preferably 18.5 long. Best bet is to measure how long 4(?) shotshells are and compare that with the length of the standard tube, then measure 7 of your preferred shells and leave enough room for spring compression. I mention this because I've found Federal LE132-00 to be just a bit >.< longer than the standard 2.75 inch shell and it adds up after a half dozen are inserted.

3) Use a lathe and have a custom-turned cap made to hold the two halves of the receiver together. It's not a complicated part, all it Really needs is a 45-degree bevel on the inside.

4) Fit, measure, and scribe a line on the tube with the new cap holding the halves together and the magazine tube backed out a full turn or so (to provide clamping force when it's all together)

5) Fasten the new cap to the custom made extended tube and you're pretty much done.

... 6) be sure that the new, extended tube has holes laterally through it like the original tube did. You can use a screwdriver or cleaning rod to provide a turning force on the tube to screw it tight or loosen it.

You can also have the stock rear sight tower removed and a Picatinney rail put in place, the height of my red-dot is almost exactly where the original sight was. (I found out that a clamp on M4 sight is just a bit too high for the stock front sight but it could be replaced with a taller one that could even be fixed in place if desired.

I would personally just remove the front sight and have a custom made door standoff or compensator silver soldered in place as the front sight needs to be removed every time you are going to remove the upper receiver cover for cleaning. (I rarely remove mine now days.)

Liberty1776
March 22, 2009, 08:42 PM
I really liked mine. Very reliable. It's one of the guns I regret selling the most...:banghead: Nope, don't ask me why I sold it. I dunno. Moment of weakness on my brain...:scrutiny:

nclubbar1
January 27, 2010, 01:13 AM
Hi there- I have a nice HS 10b and I have been looking high and low for a full length mag tube. Unfortunately, a good gunsmith is something we lack in my area. If you could direct me to someone who has already done this it would be GREATLY appreciated. I am currently having a machinist friend make a weaver rail that threads on to the factory light mount so I can mount a surfire. Assuming I can obtain an extended mag tube, I'll add a vertical for-grip with a momentary switch. Thanks so much! Ted Long.

dfariswheel
January 27, 2010, 09:29 PM
At one time, there was a company that manufactured an extension specifically for the HS Model 10 guns, but they're long out of business.

These days, I think you'll have to have a custom model made for you.
There's a couple of people who are making custom extensions, but I can't find them right now.

Ask on the forums especially here:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=1

nclubbar1
January 28, 2010, 11:15 PM
Thanks! I'll give it a try.

Davandron
January 29, 2010, 12:15 AM
I've been looking at bullpup shotguns for a little bit, and keep wondering if a new High Standard 10 kit was available would their be interest.

My thought is to take the Tri Star / Baikal / Sabre semi auto shotgun, and develop the three-piece housing to convert it to a high standard "clone". These shotguns are almost identical to the original Flite (and they are affordable).

Any thoughts?

dacavasi
January 29, 2010, 12:34 AM
I've had mine since 1979. I've fired several hundred rounds through it and never one problem. Interestingly enough, only about half of those were ever the 'recommended' high-base brass, and still, never any issues. Mine still has a functional, original, mounted Kel-Lite flashlight.

4thPointOfContact
January 29, 2010, 01:35 AM
Can anyone think of a semi-auto shotgun that doesn't have a recoil spring extending off the back of the receiver (such as Mossberg 930 has, for example) and that loads and ejects from the bottom? Something that ejected from the bottom would eliminate the left-handed problem and allow firing from either shoulder.



That would probably make a near perfect candidate for bullupping.
(Of course, if the BATFE would reverse its 'no electronic trigger' ruling then the trigger pull problem would be solved as well.)

Youngster
January 29, 2010, 02:20 AM
Can anyone think of a semi-auto shotgun that doesn't have a recoil spring extending off the back of the receiver (such as Mossberg 930 has, for example) and that loads and ejects from the bottom? Something that ejected from the bottom would eliminate the left-handed problem and allow firing from either shoulder.



That would probably make a near perfect candidate for bullupping.
(Of course, if the BATFE would reverse its 'no electronic trigger' ruling then the trigger pull problem would be solved as well.)

The Fabarm SAT-8, although its a side ejector.

nclubbar1
January 29, 2010, 05:08 AM
I'm so glad this thread got going again. Its funny, I had heard so much talk about the 10b having malfunction problems that on one trip to the woods to plink with some friends I brought the 10b and a hundred rounds of 00 Buck... The only malfunction I experienced was the ability to use my right arm the next day! Anyway, I wanted to address the question about a bottom ejecting auto for a bullpup configuration. How about the Remington 105 CTi? The only part that bites is the price...$1200...I would be light and work really well though.

nclubbar1
January 29, 2010, 05:13 AM
Oh, by the way... 4thPointOfContact.... Any chance you or someone you know would be willing to make an extension to sell? I found a guy but he just doesn't have the time to put into it and I'm sure it will be months...

Davandron
January 30, 2010, 09:39 AM
4thpoint: The only bottom ejecting semi I know of is the Remington 105, but I don't know where its action spring is located. Ithaca and Browning have bottom ejecting pumps.

As far as conventional, side eject semi, like I mentioned all those cheap imports have their action spring up front and nothing in the stock.

cornman
January 30, 2010, 10:23 AM
Why are they called "Bullpups"? Wouldn't a Bullcalf make more sense?

Murphys Law
January 30, 2010, 11:29 AM
They weren't unreliable if you were/are firing on the right shoulder, but were very unreliable for lefties as the ejecting shells would be stopped from clearing the ejection port by the left handed shooters chest or clothing. The ejecting shells would stove pipe. Most agencies that tried them, rejected them only for the reason that they weren't compatible with ALL of their people.

nclubbar1
February 1, 2010, 09:18 PM
Great point. I can see how that could be misconstrued as unreliable rather than uncompatable and simply something that would cause police agancies to pass over the design.

AmEngRifles
February 3, 2010, 05:07 AM
I am a little surprised, no one has mentioned how damn heavy these shotguns are. I have never fired one, but recall hefting one years ago and that thought still hangs tight, that SOB is HEAVY! :-)

I guess this is an advantage once firing, since it would help tame the recoil?

nclubbar1
February 15, 2010, 06:04 PM
Well, I keep asking, but does anyone else out there have the ability to make a mag extention? I would love to buy one, I just don't have anyone here in my city that can do the work... PLEASE HELP!!!

4thPointOfContact
February 15, 2010, 09:41 PM
I am a little surprised, no one has mentioned how damn heavy these shotguns are. I have never fired one, but recall hefting one years ago and that thought still hangs tight, that SOB is HEAVY! :-)

I guess this is an advantage once firing, since it would help tame the recoil?

Heavy? Hmmn, maybe. The main difference from a standard shotgun on a 10B are the additions of two plastic shells and the aluminum rear sight block. I've always considered it more wieldly than any other shotgun I have, at least for indoor work. True, that it's difficult to use from the left side shoulder, but the swiveling buttstock allows you to rotate your arm up 180-degrees if it's a necessity. (Might get an elbow shot off, depending on how good the BG is, however.) Perhaps, it's just that all the weight is concentrated in a more compact area rather than being balanced between the hands?

For pure recoil taming, nothing beats the heft of a USAS-12 though :) 11-pounds empty and up to 15- fully loaded tends to make it quite a pussycat.... after you've thrown it up to your shoulder.

slzy
April 19, 2010, 10:36 PM
what is a fair price on a B model in excellent condition?

4thPointOfContact
April 20, 2010, 01:22 AM
There's on on Gunbroker.com right now ..... for 1200.00 :what::what:
That's a lot to pay for a 30-year old shotgun.


I think I paid 550 or so in '84.

DMR
April 20, 2010, 11:43 PM
I will be working on some write ups of this sample for a while. I'll try to keep the flow going to this thread to.

http://pro-patria.us/Bullpups/HS10B-1.gif

Lester Gillis
November 26, 2010, 04:35 AM
Found this thread after mentionining it's possible (if a reliable design) good choice as a driver/car gun (others being a Saiga SBS and the venerable Ithaca A&B (LOL at 'the Judge). This has always been a gun that fascinated me but I prolly learned more in this thread than ever knew about it. Ran across one in a shop when I was between 18 and 21 so at that time could not purchase as in MI the law calls it a handgun(and 750 or so was a lot for a kid that age). This is just one of those funky unique guns that show up in old movies like the COP derringer or Enforcer pistol, Bushmaster Armpistol, Jatimatic, you know and wonder why they never caught on, and find out. Never did with the HS 10B though, and even after this thread am not clear, other than it was a freakish bullpup design and as usual, not kind to lefties.

There is some serious innovation here, and still a unique (save some custom built Saigas and military prototype FA stuff) that fills a really practical niche. The combat shotgun is not regarded by many as relevant these days, but it is a fact some jobs they are the ideal tactical weapon (night, moving targets, vehicles, Close range/low penetrating, guard, riot, nonlethal, etc., so much more than a battering ram replacement). But a reliable bullpup auto makes for one of the most devastating compact weapons for CQB imaginable. And I see here a weapon way ahead of it's time. What's that the first tactical white light? It shows it's vintage but still. The rotating buttstock takes like the macho fantasy Spas-12 hook but gives it a practical use (positioning on the shoulder, shown here to aid left handers. Aesthetically, this is one of the good ones, like a Valmet 82 or AUG, a rare good looking bullpup.

Were there any factory models with an extended mag? I would call one essential for better handling, obvious higher cap (important here-before loading single rounds from shouldered bullpup position, I might prefer the good ol' NY reload), and back to looks again-doesn't look better with, but naked without. How fast do they cycle, or is it silly to ask or want to know, i'm sure they're no Benelli, but can ya get some hulls in the air?

I don't know. I think a lot of real thought went into this design, ideas not based on cosmetics but how it would fight, and then how it could fight better. I mean among shotguns, this one looks South African in design origin. Today, with a full length mag tube, it might be a viable choice for those unable or unwilling to go the NFA/SBS route but needing a compact shotgun, an auto that if need be could be operated with one hand (no manual cycling, realistically you might get some malfs to clear in that position, but beats how Mireles did it). it would seem like there would be collectors, a cult following for something so advanced for it's day but looks more seen as a cool oddity.

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