Countries with similar gun laws to the US?


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G.A.Pster
March 22, 2009, 03:07 AM
Are there any other countries besides the US that allow their citizens to buy self-loading rifles and handguns, and "hi-cap" mags without registration?

Or is the US the last bastion of true freedom in a repressive world?

I don’t know of any, Switzerland and canada are the friendliest countries towards guns, but still not enough.

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DAVIDSDIVAD
March 22, 2009, 03:39 AM
france?

General Geoff
March 22, 2009, 03:48 AM
if you mean military-caliber autoloading rifles with standard capacity magazines, then I very seriously doubt it.

We have it far, FAR better than any other civilized country in the world when it comes to gun rights. Probably better than any third world nation too, if you follow the letter of local law.

Morgo
March 22, 2009, 04:19 AM
New Zealand is quite friendly, even more so than the USA in some regards like suppressors for firearms.

Afy
March 22, 2009, 04:38 AM
France: We do need special paperwork for certain calibers, and self loading rifles. However there is no practical limit on magazine capacities.
It certainly isnt as easy as the US but a lot easier than some other countires. And we have no restrictions on suppressors.

JWF III
March 22, 2009, 06:21 AM
Hopefully Shung , or another Swiss, will chime in. But I'd guess Switzerland might be a close second. Though I have to admit I don't enough about the gun laws there or New Zeland to give a comparison of them.

Wyman

4Freedom
March 22, 2009, 07:14 AM
Anyone see the Borat movie? In Kazaksthan you get to practice your gun at shooting range on real criminal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUcyphPxcVY

I vote Kazaksthan.. Cannot beat that kind of target practice :neener:

Shung
March 22, 2009, 07:38 AM
citizens to buy self-loading rifles and handguns, and "hi-cap" mags without registration?

Switzerland has no restriction on anything exept lasers, suppressors and full-autos... all of them can only be acquired with a special permit and a 150$ tax.. but you have no guarantee they will deliver it to you.

as for registration, we had from 1999 to 2009 a law that permitted to buy and sell guns from or to other people without going through the police paper work, which meant no real registration. However, the 1st buyer (in the gunshop) was always registered within the police of its state, and each transaction had to be written down on contract kept by both parties for 10 years..

from 2009, we have a new law, that require us to make a permit within the police for each buy (even from a friend), which means the police keep registration of every gun movement. But with all the transaction made in between 1999 and 2009, they have no real idea of where the guns are, and who own them.

Virtually, they could have known that by making a HUGE work by tracing every gun from it's 1st owner to the last, by tracing the contract from person to person.. But they didnt as it would have taken 20years and costed billions..

Even worse, when our parlament passed the new law (2009), they guaranteed gun owners, hunters, and sportsmens associations (who stupidly trusted them..), that they wouldnt be any Federal registration of guns... but a couple a days ago, the parlament voted to have one established.. the Conseil des Etats (2nd chamber) must still accept it, but probably will..

The only problem for them, is that the NEW LAW forget to mention about the contracts made in between 1999 and 2009 (and the fact that they should be kept 10 years), and since the new law totally cancel the old one, every gun owner that purchases or sold a gun from a private citizen in this time, could deny it, and say the police he has no contract or gun, etc..

If a Federal Registration should come, most gun owners think they will only declare the guns they had acquired in a gunshop, and for which the Police already owns a file.. Because most gun owners don't wanna see their guns seized and destroyed in 15 years like it happends in GB...

with their anti-gun agenda, the politicans would make black market explode, and put honest gun owners in the situation they have 3 kind of guns..

The guns they have, the guns they never had, the guns they will never have..

X-Rap
March 22, 2009, 11:17 AM
A better question would have been, what country ensures the RKBA in their Constitution. I believe in that respect we stand alone and most in Washington see that as a barrier that has thawarted most of their desires.
It doesn't mean that they don't claim its irrelavance but so long as it's there it must at least be acknowledged. The other gun owning countries have nothing when the gov. decides to take them.

25 Pdr
March 22, 2009, 12:22 PM
Are there any other countries besides the US that allow their citizens to buy self-loading rifles and handguns, and "hi-cap" mags without registration?

Here in the UK Pistols and Self Loading Centrefire rifles are banned.

In fact you cannot even buy a TV without giving your name and address.We have to buy a yearly licence to own one. It cost £140 (Around $250).

If you do not buy a licence they send a couple of Mafia type goons to your home to terrorise you then haul you off to court. People have done gaol time for not complying.

6_gunner
March 22, 2009, 01:36 PM
what country ensures the RKBA in their Constitution

The Mexican constitution recognizes the people's right "to possess and carry arms for their security and self-defense..." Of course, it is ignored just like ours is.

Constitutional guarantees don't count for much if they are ignored.

I'd still be curious to know if any other countries at least keep up the pretense of having a constitutional guarantee of RKBA.

X-Rap
March 22, 2009, 02:07 PM
While the Mex. Constitution has a RKBA article I think it allows for much more infringement than ours.
I think ours has been shreaded over the years but there seems to be enough left to detour total restriction.
Words mean things much to the chagrin of the anti's. Lets hope we can awaken some more of this sleeping giant and fully restore or rights.

Duke of Doubt
March 22, 2009, 02:56 PM
Iraq allows full-auto AK-47s.

I understand that some of the postage stamp countries are remarkably easygoing about firearms. I know one is.

For awhile, Slovenia was very pro-gun. Haven't been there or involved for awhile.

LightningJoe
March 22, 2009, 09:01 PM
In fact you cannot even buy a TV without giving your name and address.We have to buy a yearly licence to own one. It cost £140 (Around $250).


What do you get for that? Do you get cable and 200 channels? Or just the right to turn the TV on?


Isn't the license supposed to be paying for the BBC, etc? Can you get a cable package that doesn't include government-owned networks?

G.A.Pster
March 23, 2009, 12:47 AM
"I understand that some of the postage stamp countries are remarkably easygoing about firearms. I know one is.

For awhile, Slovenia was very pro-gun. Haven't been there or involved for awhile."

I’ll have to look into it I’m willing to learn Slovenian if necessary.

Prince Yamato
March 23, 2009, 12:55 AM
France. They also don't have the stupid SBR laws we have here.

chris in va
March 23, 2009, 01:05 AM
A person from Yemen on another board said his country is pretty lax with gun laws, with the exception of the major cities.

Travis Bickle
March 23, 2009, 01:12 AM
I read somewhere that in Bolivia, one can legally buy everything, including full-auto, just by signing a declaration that you're not a felon or a mental patient.

While the Mex. Constitution has a RKBA article I think it allows for much more infringement than ours.

The Mexican constitution reads thusly:

Artículo 10. Los habitantes de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos tienen derecho a poseer armas en su domicilio, para su seguridad y legítima defensa, con excepción de las prohibidas por la Ley Federal y de las reservadas para el uso exclusivo del Ejército, Armada, Fuerza Aérea y Guardia Nacional. La ley federal determinará los casos, condiciones, requisitos y lugares en que se podrá autorizar a los habitantes la portación de armas.

In English it means: "Article 10. The inhabitants of the United Mexican States have a right to arms in their homes, for security and legitimate defense, with exception of those prohibited by Federal Law and those reserved for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, Air Force and National Guard. Federal law will determine the cases, conditions, requirements, and places in which the carrying of arms will be authorized to the inhabitants."

It is interesting to note that this is the exact reverse of the holding in United States v. Miller, which stated that our constitution protects only a right to keep and bear arms used by the military.

Frank Ettin
March 23, 2009, 01:33 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that, AFAIK, in any case only citizens can have guns (subject to whatever limitations apply) in most countries other than the U. S. So anyone looking for a place to retire might want to consider that wrinkle.

wyk
March 23, 2009, 06:02 AM
"I understand that some of the postage stamp countries are remarkably easygoing about firearms. I know one is."


And which postage stamp country you know has pretty good gun laws? Is it one of those on the European continent?
By the way Slovenia's laws are pretty ok except for the no CCW part as well as having to be a member of a range or club in addition to passing an exam to own one. But everything is allowed except full-autos once you take a class, pass an exam and join a shooting range or club. This was what I last heard from a Slovenian. If there is anyone out there who knows feel free to update us.

25 Pdr
March 23, 2009, 07:28 AM
Quote:
In fact you cannot even buy a TV without giving your name and address.We have to buy a yearly licence to own one. It cost £140 (Around $250).

What do you get for that? Do you get cable and 200 channels? Or just the right to turn the TV on?


Isn't the license supposed to be paying for the BBC, etc? Can you get a cable package that doesn't include government-owned networks?
__________________

The money is given to the BBC.We get nothing more, although BBC channels don't show commercials.

It is a criminal offence not to pay it though.

VirgilCaine
March 23, 2009, 01:56 PM
Wow, I knew the UK was bad, but just...wow. TV licenses.

Garak
March 23, 2009, 05:54 PM
From wikipedia: "The Museum of Broadcast Communications in Chicago notes that two-thirds of the countries in Europe and half of the countries in Asia and Africa use television licences to fund public television."

So, it's nothing special. A couple of decades ago we had to buy radio licences also, think about that.

Shung
March 23, 2009, 06:00 PM
and I still like watching a movie on TV with only 1 adverts break, or even none..

Dr. Fresh
March 23, 2009, 11:42 PM
Switzerland has no restriction on anything exept lasers, suppressors and full-autos... all of them can only be acquired with a special permit and a 150$ tax.. but you have no guarantee they will deliver it to you.

as for registration, we had from 1999 to 2009 a law that permitted to buy and sell guns from or to other people without going through the police paper work, which meant no real registration. However, the 1st buyer (in the gunshop) was always registered within the police of its state, and each transaction had to be written down on contract kept by both parties for 10 years..

from 2009, we have a new law, that require us to make a permit within the police for each buy (even from a friend), which means the police keep registration of every gun movement. But with all the transaction made in between 1999 and 2009, they have no real idea of where the guns are, and who own them.

Virtually, they could have known that by making a HUGE work by tracing every gun from it's 1st owner to the last, by tracing the contract from person to person.. But they didnt as it would have taken 20years and costed billions..

Even worse, when our parlament passed the new law (2009), they guaranteed gun owners, hunters, and sportsmens associations (who stupidly trusted them..), that they wouldnt be any Federal registration of guns... but a couple a days ago, the parlament voted to have one established.. the Conseil des Etats (2nd chamber) must still accept it, but probably will..

The only problem for them, is that the NEW LAW forget to mention about the contracts made in between 1999 and 2009 (and the fact that they should be kept 10 years), and since the new law totally cancel the old one, every gun owner that purchases or sold a gun from a private citizen in this time, could deny it, and say the police he has no contract or gun, etc..

If a Federal Registration should come, most gun owners think they will only declare the guns they had acquired in a gunshop, and for which the Police already owns a file.. Because most gun owners don't wanna see their guns seized and destroyed in 15 years like it happends in GB...

with their anti-gun agenda, the politicans would make black market explode, and put honest gun owners in the situation they have 3 kind of guns..

The guns they have, the guns they never had, the guns they will never have..

I'm quoting this to reiterate the fact that a ridiculously low crime rate obviously does nothing to stop an anti-gun agenda.

twofifty
March 23, 2009, 11:50 PM
The Phillipines is reportedly very easy going about handguns in public places. You can carry in airports, for instance.

Mohawk
March 24, 2009, 11:10 AM
I think Afghanistan has the most liberal gun laws in the world. Basicly there are no laws. Anyone can have any gun they can get their hands on. I don't think there are any laws concerning confiscation either. If you can take it away from someone else, it's your's to keep.

VirgilCaine
March 24, 2009, 11:32 AM
From wikipedia: "The Museum of Broadcast Communications in Chicago notes that two-thirds of the countries in Europe and half of the countries in Asia and Africa use television licences to fund public television."

So, it's nothing special. A couple of decades ago we had to buy radio licences also, think about that.

Nothing special to you--but to me, here in the States, it's pretty weird...and sad.
I mean, really. Need a license to watch TV. That's just silly.

twofifty
March 24, 2009, 02:49 PM
When it comes to most TV programs, it's the act of watching that is sad.

lykoris
March 24, 2009, 03:03 PM
all European countries will require registration to comply with the EU directive that takes effective in 2010.

to my knowledge handguns and SLRs are available throughout Europe (except Great Britain) but all countries require registration with the exception of the Swiss 2nd hand market.

I WISH we had an organisation like the NRA in the US, IANSA will continue pushing anti-gun legislation across Europe.

interestingly the Czech Republic and Lithuania allow CCW among civilians.

Here in Luxembourg we can buy whatever we want so long as it's not full automatic.

Regards,
Paul

G.A.Pster
March 26, 2009, 02:33 AM
Looks like there’s nowhere to fall back to in the civilized world, I don’t really want to live in a third world country.

Honestly what’s the world coming too?

4Freedom
March 26, 2009, 02:36 AM
I think Afghanistan has the most liberal gun laws in the world. Basicly there are no laws. Anyone can have any gun they can get their hands on. I don't think there are any laws concerning confiscation either. If you can take it away from someone else, it's your's to keep

Cool.. So, they have any good deals on condos in Kabul? I heard Kabul Hilton is really a nice place to stay. The rooms don't have phones, but an AK47 is always available at request, for small fee of course. I guess I don't have to worry about finding a shooting range, since you can pretty much just shoot at anyone or anywhere.


Here in Luxembourg we can buy whatever we want so long as it's not full automatic.
Isn't Luxembourg wone of those European tax havens? are you part of EU? Did yo usay you are free to buy any type of gun you want in Luxembourg? Really a beautiful country, hope to see it one day. I suppose CCW isn't happening over there, right? If you don't have the immigrant problem that UK has, perhaps its not as big of a deal.

RoostRider
March 26, 2009, 03:01 AM
Here in Luxembourg we can buy whatever we want so long as it's not full automatic.

Looks like there’s nowhere to fall back to in the civilized world

Why bother starting a thread with a question if you don't read the answers?

Last I understood, Luxembourg was considered "civilized".

ByAnyMeans
March 26, 2009, 04:29 PM
I was in Luxemburg when I was visiting my brother who was serving in Germany. It's a beautiful country and great friendly people. I forget the details but I have a picture of a plaque that still hangs in this Luxemburg town detailing and thanking
American soldiers that liberated them during WWII.

X-Rap
March 26, 2009, 04:44 PM
Aside from Mexico which obviously honors their Constitution:barf: I have yet to see or hear of a country that can't have their gun privileges removed with a simple vote or stroke of a pen.
I guess I will stay here and fight for what has been the last great hope for over 200 yrs.

CoRoMo
March 26, 2009, 05:02 PM
The laws in Texas are similar to the laws in the USA.:D

gun addict
March 26, 2009, 11:23 PM
seriuosly? I mean, seriuosly? Has no one on here mentioned FINLAND yet? :rolleyes:

Travis Bickle
March 26, 2009, 11:40 PM
Aside from Mexico which obviously honors their Constitution I have yet to see or hear of a country that can't have their gun privileges removed with a simple vote or stroke of a pen.

The RKBA provision in the Mexican Constitution is practically meaningless. It basically says that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless the government feels like it.

mordechaianiliewicz
March 27, 2009, 12:58 AM
Switzerland. Yemen. Bolivia. Not TOO bad. America has some weirdness to our laws, but overall maybe only Switzerland comes close to the firearms freedom we enjoy. And, just like here, there are authoritarians who are trying to screw with their RKBA.

lykoris
March 27, 2009, 06:44 AM
to answer your questions

a 'tax haven' isn't a term I like to use - we have banking secrecy and favourable(Brit spelling) tax rates like so many other countries.

Luxembourg is one of the founding members of what has now become the E.U.

yes, we are free to buy whatever we want here in Luxembourg, Uzi, MP5, .50cal rifles, .50AE Deagle etc. I even laughed when I saw this recently in a local armory, a kit to transform a glock into a 'carbine' :-)

http://armurerie.lu/Produits/produits_details.asp?ID=1489


Although what I find very funny is if you type Luxembourg and handgun into google you will find numerous references(certain NRA literature) that states everything is banned and civilians are not allowed to possess firearms - nothing could be further from the truth and whilst everything is registered we can buy anything so long as it's not full auto with no limit on the number of firearms you buy, it's the same liberty in terms of choice as the Swiss 'currently' enjoy. I'm looking to get a HK417 and have it converted to semi-auto.

CCW isn't happening over here (most unfortunate) - in many ways I firmly believe the U.S. has the right idea regarding CCW. Evidently like other European countries there are certain circumstances were you can carry

- if your life is in immediate danger and you possess conclusive evidence that demonstrates this threat, in practice however no amount of evidence is sufficient to convince the minister of justice to sign off on a CCW permit
- if you are a licensed bodyguard but only when on assignment you are entitled to carry.

interestingly enough though all members of the government's prosecution service (lawyers, members of the court, judges etc.) are given the option of CCW automatically and many avail of this possibility.

immigrant problem, not on the scale of the UK given the language complexity and the severity of the authorities here, essentially zero tolerance. That being said an estimated 10,000 illegal immigrants from eastern europe are said to come to Luxembourg every year. Most work on the black market but a significant minority are career criminals. There is a notable trend since I came to live/work here in 2002 of increased violence. Thankfully we have the right to use a firearm in self-defense of our property/family - unsurprisingly the burglary rate is (in my opinion as a result of this deterrent) rather low (firearm will be licensed under target shooting/hunting - no license issued on the basis of self-defense).

byanymeans

yes, there is also an American cemetery dedicated to U.S. soldiers just outside the city, a 5min drive (Luxembourg government pays for its upkeep and it's always in perfect condition) that fell while liberating Luxembourg from Nazi Germany and many plaques throughout the city to honour(again Brit spelling) their sacrifice, also statues/street names. It is at times incredible to think that only 64 years ago Europe was ravaged by its 2nd world war with such a horrendous loss of life.

The Swiss face a referendum quite soon and part of it is a universal license system so even their current 2nd hand market will end up being licensed if the anti-gun brigade win - they are also looking to ban pump action/semi-auto shotguns alongside a host of other meaningless measures.

I'd strongly advocate you all to continue fighting for your 2nd amendment rights because in being complacent you'll end up losing the continuous battle against the likes of IANSA.

What I find most discouraging in Europe is people don't give a dam and are totally complacent, they seem to ignore the ongoing anti-firearms legislation that is coming up every year. The largest organisation(Brit spelling again) is FACE, it represents 7m hunters across the E.U but no organisation represents 'all' forms of shooting with a population base of 380m I'm surprised an NRA equivalent in Europe doesn't exist. It's disheartening to say the least when you observe the apathy among fellow shooters.

All the best,
Paul

Shung
March 27, 2009, 07:16 AM
interestingly enough though all members of the government's prosecution service (lawyers, members of the court, judges etc.) are given the option of CCW automatically and many avail of this possibility.

just work alike over here... It's a kind of "privilege" of certain people... :barf:


The Swiss face a referendum quite soon and part of it is a universal license system so even their current 2nd hand market will end up being licensed if the anti-gun brigade win -

not exactly. Our referendum is about getting our issued rifles back to the arsenal, instad of home, where they are now. Our 2nd hand market is already screwed. from 2009, we have to get a permit from the police, even when buying a 2nd hand gun from someone. This was to comply with the Schengen treaty and community we are now IN... :banghead:

they are also looking to ban pump action/semi-auto shotguns alongside a host of other meaningless measures.

they "only" want to ban pump actions, the "so called" very dangerous guns. (nobody was killed by a shotgun for a long time... but nevermind..) They have NO idea about semi-auto shotguns, or side by side 12 gauges, and they don't wanna ban those.. What scarces the **** out of them, is the PUMP.. no kidding.. That nasty pump really looks scary !

They also want to forbid "full auto" guns.. no matter if they are ALREADY FORBIDDEN by our actual law.. Only collectors can get them through an exceptional authorisation and permit. Again, nobody was ever killed for a long time with a legal full-auto gun.. Actually I couldnt find even one im my research. Nevermind, they want to get rid of those..

But we won't keep our mouths shut. We will politically fight, and hopefully WIN !

lykoris
March 27, 2009, 07:37 AM
Hi Shung,

I've read quite a lot about it and hope it is defeated. I know the 'main' argument is the removal of the service rifle from homes due to the suicide risk...but what I think is completely underhanded is that there is a host of other measures they wish to bring in also.

They seem to be selling it to the Swiss public on the basis of 'removal of the service rifle' and the Swiss press is reporting it as such - nothing I read recently talks about the other measures unless a member of the public goes to the likes of the protell site.

I also found the report given out by the socialist party extremely worrying for Swiss firearms rights...it's roughly a 34 page document detailing everything they mean line by line of the proposed new legislation. If you haven't read it I will put up the link. It reads as if someone from the gssa group was contracted out to write it up.

fusil à pompe I understood to mean semi-auto also after reading the PS report.

Many said in 2007 when the cartridges for the service rifle were taken away from homes that the disarmament of Switzerland had begun, now two years later with the proposal of removing the service rifle I've only just understood what those commentators meant at the time.

I have always admired Switzerland as a true beacon of democracy and not a country dominated by two powerful political parties like so many European countries. A lot of power is given to cantons within the swiss federal system.

I sincerely hope it is defeated. The anti-gun lobbyists will not stop there, sig55X variants will be next on the list for civilian use after their service has finished and no doubt anything that remotely resembles a 'black' firearm.

All the best,
Paul

wyk
March 27, 2009, 03:51 PM
Yes, I do agree that it is all part of a slippery slope. First they take away the ammo. Now they want the guns! All under the pretext of safety.

Like they say, " they will not take away your hunting rifle. they will call it a sniper rifle first". "they will not take away your sporting handguns. they will call it a high capacity lethal handgun".

I wish more of the guys here could join Pro-Tell. I have done so as an act of solidarity with the Swiss and also to stop these antis

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