Legal advantages to having a "happy" gun


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Wedge
October 8, 2003, 03:20 PM
Sorry for the subject title, but I couldn't think of a good term.

When I was in the process of buying my first handgun my wife put a stipulation on it: "You can't get a semi-automatic. It looks too much like what a police officer or military uses and looks too dangerous. They make me uncomfortable." Being the loving husband I complied and bought a nice Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt / .45 ACP. She was happy because it looks more like a cowboy type gun and less like a 1911. Any revolver was considered OK by her.

A little background: Before she met me she had never seen a gun up close, never held a gun, never shot a gun. Her parents are very anti.

Revolver = OK
Semi = Dangerous looking

Now is this a general idea that non-gun people have? And if this is what people think, would it be better to use a revolver in a self-defense situation because people would think it was not made to kill people, but it was the only thing the guy had on hand to defend himself. Has anyone had a situation where someone thought a gun was safer or more dangerous because of the way it looked? First hand expierence here...

I pretty much think that it is stupid and if I could legally carry a Glock 18 with a 30 rd. mag I would because when it comes to life and death I am going to stack the deck in my favor.

All that said, my wife wants a Mark II now (a semi) :-)

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10-Ring
October 8, 2003, 03:43 PM
Revolver = OK
Semi = Dangerous looking
Now is this a general idea that non-gun people have?

The non-gun people I run into usually only know from evil Glocks & machine guns, being able to point out revolver from semi auto is beyond their scope.

Nickotym
October 8, 2003, 03:59 PM
Quote: Has anyone had a situation where someone thought a gun was safer or more dangerous because of the way it looked? End Quote

Yes it is called the Assault Weapons Ban.

caz223
October 8, 2003, 04:23 PM
I do prefer wheelguns over semi-autos, if for no other reason than their ease of ownership.
If a law enforcement agency searched your residence and found 6 different revolvers, in varying calibers, and each having a valid purpose, I think it would be easier to justify having them.
For example, one .357 magnum snubby 686, one 6 inch .357 mag 586 with 'click' sights, a .44 mag vaquero, a 7 inch 657 for small game hunting, a acusport bisley, and an old model 27, for historical references, along with 2 or 3 different shotguns, and a bolt-action .223 varmint rifle.

If one's residence were searched, and one was found in posession of, say, 50 cz-75bs and maybe 60,000 rounds of 9mm nato ammunition, it would not be as easy to justify to various law enforcement agencies, I would suspect.

Kevlarman
October 8, 2003, 04:51 PM
Why not compromise and get a Mateba auto revolver? :D

C.R.Sam
October 8, 2003, 05:15 PM
Prime concern.
Pacify wife.
While being well armed.

Personally, I like wheels for defence and autoloaders for offence.
Not cause of looks, cause of function.

Sam

chaim
October 8, 2003, 05:50 PM
Now is this a general idea that non-gun people have? And if this is what people think, would it be better to use a revolver in a self-defense situation because people would think it was not made to kill people, but it was the only thing the guy had on hand to defend himself. Has anyone had a situation where someone thought a gun was safer or more dangerous because of the way it looked? I think a lot of people judge handguns, and guns in general, by emotional criteria and even antis usually (not all, or even most, antis want to ban all guns) think some guns are bad and some are ok. I think most people who dislike handguns are more likely to be ok with a medium framed revolver than an auto. However, a snub is just as, if not more, evil as compared to an auto because they are so easily concealed (they consider this a bad thing, as only bad people would carry, especially concealed).

There are exceptions of course. My best friend is only allowed autos, his wife hates revolvers. Some (many?) people hate all handguns. But generally, most people, including antis, have a hierarchy of what they consider ok. This is why I'd much prefer a wood stocked shotgun or carbine to a plastic stocked shotgun or AR for my home defense long gun (less likely to be painted as a nut in court).

If a law enforcement agency searched your residence and found 6 different revolvers, in varying calibers, and each having a valid purpose, I think it would be easier to justify having them....

If one's residence were searched, and one was found in posession of, say, 50 cz-75bs and maybe 60,000 rounds of 9mm nato ammunition, it would not be as easy to justify to various law enforcement agencies, I would suspect.

I do understand what you are saying, but there is one easy justification for any legal gun (or any number of them). The 2nd Amendment.

Of course, as I said, I do understand what you said. If you are in a self defense shooting or otherwise come to the attention of the police, having the "right" guns will make you less likely to be railroaded.

durango
October 8, 2003, 06:16 PM
People often react emotionally to things they don't understand. Lawers have always understood this. Look at the outcry over Black Talon ammo. If they had named it "soft and cuddly" it probably would have been fine. Another example; people's reaction to cocked and locked auto's. A woman saw one on the hip of a sherrif's deputy and asked "isn't that dangerous?" He replied (and I must paraphrase since I don't recall the exact words) "Of course it's dangerous... I wouldn't carry the sum bitch if it wasn't dangerous!" I think I read that on this board awhile back.

I'd be interested to know, has anyone out there ever had legal trouble after a shooting because of an evil sounding ammo or evil looking gun?

Standing Wolf
October 8, 2003, 06:16 PM
All that said, my wife wants a Mark II now (a semi)

Given the opportunity, most people grow up.

chaim
October 8, 2003, 06:36 PM
All that said, my wife wants a Mark II now If that is the case, run, don't walk, and pick it up immediately. If you can't really afford it then get a new credit card. You must not miss this opportunity!

At first, she'd probably "justify" owning that auto based on it being a .22. However, that would only last for a little while. She'll start to see autos as simply tools and may even open to other autos.

Get that MkII, make it her gun, take her out shooting with it, have her clean it, and she will change her tune. You must not miss this chance!

caz223
October 8, 2003, 06:59 PM
I would tend to agree with chaim, go to the local sporting goods store with wife in tow, and have her pick out the one she wants...
Have her go through the paperwork, and accompany her to the range a few times, I have a feeling she will be going to the range more often...

Black Snowman
October 8, 2003, 07:14 PM
Everyone I've ever met who knows guns likes them. Some don't make it a hobby but I've never taken someone to the range and had them not enjoy the experiance.

Wedge
October 8, 2003, 07:53 PM
When she gets her permit (I am in NY) that is what she will be getting. She tried out a friend's and really liked it. I was thinking of getting her name engraved on it actually. I need to figure out the logistics of buying it before she gets her permit and having her shoot it on a regular basis, but I am pretty sure that would be a big NO-NO in this great state of mine.

The one she shot was KMK512GC. It is a 5.5" Slab Side Bull Barrel Government Competition. Handles real nice.

I have found that education to shooting, and actually taking a couple of shots, specifically at something that gives a nice feedback like a clay target really starts the gears turning. It is better to go slow, take each small victory you can, hold your ground when you can and give in when it is worth it.

Wanderer
October 8, 2003, 10:40 PM
A .41 mag for small game hunting? ;) Sounds fun! Most people look at a gun and think 'gun'. They don't know the difference.

caz223
October 8, 2003, 11:27 PM
Laugh if you want, it is very, very effective.
:p
It's very important that it is a double action wheelgun, too.
That comes in handy when a groundhog charges you.
No lie, it's happened to me.
They are tough little buggers, but no match for the mighty 657.

Lictalon
October 9, 2003, 12:26 PM
Actually, I'd suggest that the "look" of a weapon is of prime concern.

I have a friend who sits on the fence, and never really understood the whole gun-ownership thing...and like many uneducated folks, he felt some were good, some bad, based on looks. If you don't really understand, you base it on what you know...

So anyway, one afternoon I showed him two rifles: A Mauser 98K and a post-ban Bushmaster AR15. The Mauser had the bayonet included.

Which one was okay? The Mauser, of course. Now I sat down with him and showed him the rounds, asked which one he'd rather be hit by, talked about range and penetration...educated him a bit. At the end, he still said that if I were walking down the street with the AR, he'd probably be worried, but with the Mauser, he wouldn't, despite the fact that he conceded that the Mauser was by far the deadlier of the two weapons.

The same worked for pistols. My Kimber 1911 CDP was "okay" because it was silver and had rose-wood grips...my Beretta 92 was bad because it was all black.

So I think there's a case to be made that we as gun owners could assuage the fears of the antis by moving away towards "happier" guns. Perhaps we shoudl trade in all our ARs for M1As, chrome all the guns, etc. etc...

*pause*
:barf: :barf:

Just kidding. Screw 'em all. :neener: I LIKE black!

KC
October 9, 2003, 05:45 PM
So far as "look" goes, why not take a semiauto of your favorite design and, assuming it has a metal frame, get a nice electric blue or red anodize on it?
S&W used to (if they have since stopped) make a line of pistols intended for the female market. They were smaller, lighter, and were available in almost any color combination except for black. Not very threatening unless one is pointed at you...

Mute
October 10, 2003, 12:45 PM
Perhaps you should educate your wife some more. A "happy" looking gun can kill you dead just as well as an evil looking one. Believing otherwise is a good way to have a tragedy.

GSB
October 10, 2003, 02:19 PM
So I think there's a case to be made that we as gun owners could assuage the fears of the antis by moving away towards "happier" guns. Perhaps we shoudl trade in all our ARs for M1As, chrome all the guns, etc. etc...

Maybe I can start a business out of powder coating slides in pastel blue and candy-apple-pagan-pink-pearl.

Wedge
October 10, 2003, 02:19 PM
She wants a semi auto now and she has already seen me kill game with other guns.

Spieler
October 11, 2003, 05:13 AM
I have read elsewhere that some consider the more benign look of revolvers more jury-friendly should you ever have to go to court on criminal charges following a shooting.

The logic goes something like this: Most people see revolvers and equate them with police guns or guns that the good guys carried in the movies/TV shows of yesteryear, whereas the bad guys always used evil-looking semi-auto 'death-blasters', blah blah, blah.......!

Now from personal experience, my wife is much more enamored with and inclined to shoot my one revolver than any of my 9mm or .45 autos. She thinks the nice blued finish is 'pretty', there is no 'heavy' slide to retract, and she knows exactly how many rounds are in that cylinder and that they are ready to go with the pull of the trigger.

JohnKSa
October 11, 2003, 09:43 PM
I've noticed that on TV and in the movies, more often than not the bad guys have black, tactical, "dangerous looking" guns while the good guys carry stainless revolvers or, on occasion stainless autos.

There are exceptions, of course, but I think that a lot of people think that way.

Jim K
October 11, 2003, 10:11 PM
Not true any more, but at one time police officers in New York City were told to assume that anyone with an automatic pistol was a bad guy and to shoot him. At that time, about all the LEOs in the country carried revolvers and I don't think NYC would even issue a carry permit for an auto pistol.

Jim

Mushinto
October 11, 2003, 10:22 PM
...: "You can't get a semi-automatic. It looks too much like what a police officer or military uses and looks too dangerous."...
"Honey, you can't buy that dress. It looks too much like what a hooker wears and looks too slutty."
ML

Peetmoss
October 13, 2003, 08:01 PM
You can buy that 22 and put it on your permit. Your wife can then put the same gun on her permit when she recieves it. However until your wife gets a permit it is illegal for her to even touch one in the PRoNY assuming she is over 21.

caz223
October 13, 2003, 09:39 PM
Quote:____________________________________________________

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...: "You can't get a semi-automatic. It looks too much like what a police officer or military uses and looks too dangerous."...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Honey, you can't buy that dress. It looks too much like what a hooker wears and looks too slutty."
ML
__________________________________________________________



Woooooooooooooooooowwww!

Caliburn
October 14, 2003, 11:54 PM
Will your scary-looking eeeeeeviiiiiil black pistol look bad when waved about the courtroom by a prosecutor? Will it frighten the jury?

If the law is on your side, it doesn't matter. Get a better lawyer.

If some junkie threatens me and my girlfriend, I WANT to pull out the biggest, baddest, scariest piece of weaponry I can, a phazer/flamethrower/Ma Deuce/Phalanx cannon with laser sights, a chainsaw for a bayonet and a muzzle big enough to climb into.

Well, OK, that might be a bit extreme. :evil:

But intimidation can be a very useful thing. Sure a .22 can kill you, but the muzzle looks tiny. The muzzle of a .45 looks like a train tunnel when pointed at you in anger and can be very intimidating. If possible, I want to intimidate the goon and end the disturbance right there.

Zach S
October 15, 2003, 09:25 PM
I've noticed that most ppl deal with my Taurus M85UL better than my 1911s and my LDA. So to me, it seems the sheeple arent as threatened by a wheelgun, but on the other hand, its a little .38 instead of a Raging Bull.

"Honey, you can't buy that dress. It looks too much like what a hooker wears and looks too slutty."
ML LMAO!!!

RVSinOK
October 15, 2003, 10:39 PM
"Honey, you can't buy that dress. It looks too much like what a hooker wears and looks too slutty."

...and that's a BAD thing???? :D :neener:

Pinned&Recessed
October 16, 2003, 08:06 PM
A semi-auto looks "badder" than a sixgun?

Put a small blue-framed Kel-Tec P32 on the table.

Then put a 6.5" S&W Model 29 .44 Magnum next to it.

"Do ya feel lucky punk?":neener:

I personally think that large-frame revolvers are far more intimidating than ANY semi-auto. Except perhaps the Desert Eagle, and that's only because I don't want to be pistol-whipped with it. :D

Skunkabilly
October 16, 2003, 08:23 PM
But those .357 Magnums can kill people in one shot! :rolleyes:

Caliburn
October 16, 2003, 11:08 PM
Skunk's right. If we let the anti's frame the argument we automatically lose -- we'll be left having to defend either a "huge weapon designed to kill in one shot" or a "small weapon designed for concealment".

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