New BSA Scope on my Oly AR 15 – a Disappointment.


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btefft
March 22, 2009, 09:04 PM
New BSA Scope on my Oly AR 15 – a Disappointment.

Well, I took my AR 15, with its new BSA 3x-9x, 40mm scope, to my property to zero the scope.

I took the target out about 50 yds and fired three-round groups until I got it zeroed. So far so, good.

Now the problem - I left the target where it was and cranked the scope it up to 9x. I could see the target real good, but when I fired, I didn’t see any new holes – I looked through my spotting scope and the three new holes were in a tight group, but they were way off, on the white, at about 2 o’clock. So, I cranked it back down to 3x. Fired three more rounds – they were dead on.

Now my question to you guys - this is my first variation power scope, am I wrong in my expectation that the scope should not loose its zero as you crank up the power? I mean, what’s the use of a variable powered scope if it doesn’t maintain its zero as you crank up the power?

Hack

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gvnwst
March 22, 2009, 09:08 PM
this is my first variation power scope, am I wrong in my expectation that the scope should not loose its zero as you crank up the power?

You are correct, cranking up the power should not change POI. I do it all the time with my sscopes, and they never change....

benzy2
March 22, 2009, 09:10 PM
A good scope wouldn't do that. A cheap Chinese made bargain basement priced scope will. Think of the tolerances it would take to make that magnification change and hold the zero. You aren't going to get that in a $60 scope.

the_right_reverend
March 22, 2009, 09:34 PM
Its a BSA!!! It didn't fall apart ?? I have had 2 of them in the sweet before I decided they were junk one literally fell apart.... I save a little longer and go NIKON

btefft
March 22, 2009, 10:10 PM
Everyone is telling me it should hold it POI throughout Its magnification range - I thought so..

They recommend that I send it back - I will.

Now, I'm looking for a good variable scope for say under $200 - is that a possibility - I don't want to get another "BSA".

I had Nikon made as a recommendation, any others I can add to the list?

Hack

WC145
March 22, 2009, 10:18 PM
You get what you pay for, especially with optics.

benzy2
March 22, 2009, 10:31 PM
I have heard bad things about reconditioned Nikons. They don't carry the lifetime warranty and I have heard that they don't always get them fixed. I'm not sure I would chance one personally. Anything Japan made in the $200 range will be about the same. Sightron, Leupold (Japan glass) VXI, Weaver, Bushnell 3200 are all Japan made and Japan glass. Some of the Nikon line is Philippine made (prostaff and buckmaster) and I believe the Monarchs are Japan though they too may be Philippine as well. Even so these scopes are right on line with the Japan built scopes in the same price range. I don't remember where the Burris line is made but they are right in there dollar for dollar as well. There are some smaller brands like the Super Sniper through SWFA, Clearidge through theopticszone, some of the vortex line, the tactical II from mueller, and some more. I try to avoid most everything China made like the plague. China made Mueller, Pentax, and maybe some of the Millet line goes against this generalization and seems to in general hold up to mild to moderate centerfire abuse without breaking. They aren't as clear or well made as even the cheapest of Japan made scopes but they are a bit less money for the same features. These are the only China made scopes I have heard far more positives for than negatives, though I don't have a ton of feedback on Millet.

Hostile Amish
March 22, 2009, 10:42 PM
The only decent scopes made by BSA are the 3x airgun scope and the 40mm red-dot sight. All others are just a waste of time and money IMO.

WardenWolf
March 22, 2009, 10:47 PM
The running joke is that BSA stands for Better Stay Away. I'm sorry that you got screwed. If you want a good quality budget scope, allow me to suggest the Leapers rubber-coated 3-9x40. It's a bargain at $60 and is just excellent all around. I put it on my Saiga .223 and was drilling patterns at my gun's limit.

aubie515
March 22, 2009, 10:52 PM
How did the OP get screwed? He was the one that bought a cheap POS scope. There are times when you must "pay to play" when it comes to optics purchases.

lipadj46
March 22, 2009, 11:06 PM
Good lord man buy this before they raise the price again:

http://www.swfa.com/c-2119-nikon-team-primos-riflescopes.aspx

You've learned your lesson now don't ask just buy. Your welcome.

WardenWolf
March 22, 2009, 11:09 PM
aubie, he got screwed because there are actually GOOD budget optics out there that rival many more expensive examples. He, unfortunately, bought the BSA and got screwed by a defective product.

FiveFiveSixFan
March 22, 2009, 11:14 PM
How did the OP get screwed? He was the one that bought a cheap POS scope. There are times when you must "pay to play" when it comes to optics purchases.

I doubt the OP confused the BSA with a top-of-the-line Swarovski but I don't think it is unreasonable to think that if an item offers a feature, such as variable power in this case, that the feature should work.

I think it would be reasonable to expect less clarity, less precise adjustments, and a rougher finish but I don't think that a variable zero should be considered acceptable at any price point.

benzy2
March 22, 2009, 11:19 PM
I don't think I would trust any scope costing $60 to be more than a very short term bridge. Between the glass, tube, turrets, internal mounting hardware/seals, packaging, shipping to the states, and then to the store/end user I really don't see a lot of budget to make any component well enough to last or work well. I'm sure a few come out working well and once in a while the glass will be clear but I would trust even a Nikon prostaff/Sightron SI far before a Leapers and the price difference isn't much. Its just too little money to get anything long term worth a darn.

P.B.Walsh
March 23, 2009, 01:10 AM
My BSA is good

hometheaterman
March 23, 2009, 01:32 AM
I saw you said BSA in the title and I though uh oh and figured you'd have a problem. I've never heard anything good about BSA on anything bigger than a .22 with little to no recoil. It should not change the poi when you adjust the magnification.

I have a Leupold VX-1 on my muzzle loader. I originally bought it to put on my 30-06. I've had it around 2 years now and it's been sent in for repair 2 times. I know it's their cheaper scope but for a $220 at the time and $250-300 at most gun shops now scope it has no excuse for being crap. I'm not the only one as I have 2 buddies with Leupolds and one had the same issue I did the second time and the other one will tell you he hasn't had it long enough to test it out.

I had it on the rifle for about 6 months then I noticed after shooting it seemed like the insides would shake and simmer back down until they were still until you shot again. I had a gunshop send it back to Leupold. The gun shop ended up being a pita but Leupold did their part.

I used a $30 Tasco from Wal-Mart to hunt with while the Leupold was sent off. When I got it back I mounted the Leupold back on the rifle and sighted it in. I didn't use it much for several months. Finally 8 months or so later I got it out to hunt with and went to sight it in. It seemed like now it was self adjusting. I thought it was me as in a vise it didn't do it. Then a buddy shot it and said the same thing. It seemed like it was adjusting the POI on it's own. So off it went back to Leupold. I sent it in myself this time. Leupold has good customer service but this makes me wonder about their quality. I got it back and stuck it in the box. When I got a new muzzle loader for Christmas I put it on that but still haven't sighted it in yet so can't say how it is now.

I will say clarity wise I couldn't tell much of a difference between my $30 Tasco I had on it and the Leupold. A buddy said the Tasco looked clearer to him but I can't say I could tell a difference. To be honest both are pretty clear but the Burris I will talk about later seemed a little clearer than both. Or better colors. I don't know just looked better to me and my buddies. I also had a $30 Tasco on a muzzle loader for over a year and it had zero problems and still shot great and looked clear as it ever did. Funny a $30 scope lasted more than a year but the Leupold seems to only last 6 months.

Another thing about the Leupold as it seemed like if you bumped it wrong you could expect it to lose zero. I just never have been happy with this scope. If they can't build a nice $250 scope why should I spend $500 to see if their higher end scopes are any good when others can sell great scopes way cheaper? I've heard guys that love Leupolds go oh those are their low end and are crap. It's still a $250 scope. Others have had good luck with them so I may be in the minority or some of it may have been me just thinking something was wrong who knows but it didn't seem right to me either time I sent it in.

When I took it off my 30-06 I put a Burris Fullfield 2 on which I got on clearance at Dicks Sporting Goods for $199.99 or something with a free Garmin eTrex GPS. To me and my buddy the Burris looked way clearer. In low light I like it better too. One other thing I like is the crosshairs. After a few seconds I have trouble seeing the thin ones in the Leupold where as on the Burris I can keep seeing them. They change to a gold color sometimes too if it's one something black so you can still see them.

The Burris is by far my favorite scope when it comes to clarity but I've not even had it a year so can't comment on how long it will last.


I've used 2 of the $30 Tasco scopes and as much as I'd love to say I didn't like them due to them being cheap and the name I can't say that. To be fair I only used one of them 2 months or so while waiting for the Leupold to come back then I sold it to a buddy for $20.

I went into them looking for something wrong with them but honestly they have impressed me. Clear, shoot well, hold zero or at least so far, and have never broken on me although I know others have had them break. I wanted to find something wrong with these but I never did. I'd recommend them for a cheap budget scope or a temporary scope.


Then I have a Simmons Deerfield 3x9x32 on my 10/22. I've had it 4 years or so. It's not the clearest but it's way clearer than I need it to be or than anyone needs to be. I think it was $40-60 or something like that 4 years ago. Well, maybe 5 years now. This would be in a close running for my favorite along with the Burris. It's not quite as clear but as I said clear enough it's not bad at all. The Burris in low light lets me see stuff I can't see with the naked eye.

Anyway, It's clear and it's taken tons of abuse. It's been bounced around in the truck, knocked over and hit the ground hard, and just been beat on but it didn't lose zero.

The only time I've had it lose zero is just recently I ended up loosening it and turning it as the cross hairs had always been a hair sideways. When I put it back tight and sighted it in I took it home. It ended up having another gun bump against the back of the scope on the top pretty hard but nothing harder than it's taken before. When I went to shoot it next it was about 5" or so high at 25-35 yards. I turned it back down several clicks and it's been fine since. I'm not sure what made it lose zero as it's taken way worse of a beating and held it before. I will say it's on a .22 so not much recoil.

Overall, I think this is the most durable scope I've had so far although like I said I can't comment on that aspect of the Burris. It or the Burris are my favorites I've used with the Tasco second and the Leupolds last. The Tasco has never given me any reason to dislike anything about it. I just worry sometimes since it was only $30 but it's always been great so far.

If I wanted a cheap scope that seems to be decent and I didn't mind replacing if something ever happened I'd seriously look at the Tasco.

If I wanted something mid range priced that was pretty good I'd check out Simmons.

If I didn't mind spending a little bit more and getting something for $200 and up I'd look at Burris. Most of my buddies either use Tasco or Simmons scopes and I haven't heard of many of them having problems. Only 1 or 2 that I know of that have had problems to be honest. Only 1 with a Tasco and I'm thinking one other one might have told me he had a problem but I'm not sure. This is out of 9 or 10 guys at least.

I know 3 people with Leupolds myself included and 2 out of the 3 have had issues with them and the 3rd one will tell you he hasn't had it long enough to see how it is.

WardenWolf
March 23, 2009, 01:52 AM
I had a Leapers 3-9x40 on my Saiga .223. No problems until I fell and dropped my gun on a rock scope first (I had my gun slung over my shoulder; I fell, and the gun fell off my shoulder and hit eyebell first). That's one advantage to having a cheap scope, though: when that happens, you can afford to replace it. Other people have reported mounting that same scope on high-power rifles without problems. One person, I believe, had it on a Mosin Nagant. If it holds zero with that, it'll stand up to any sane caliber. I'll trust that particular $60 scope because I know it's well made.

benzy2
March 23, 2009, 03:37 AM
I still don't believe that for $60 its well made. Between what the distributors and retailers add on the price to make the scope can't be but $20-$30. I just for the life of me can't see there being much long term quality in them. A lot of scopes look good under the bright sun on a black and white paper target. I would love to hear if you have done the box test with the Leapers and what your results were. How repeatable is that scope? If you run from your zero, all the way through the turret range above and then bellow your zero, and then back to the zero will it shoot to point of aim? I have need for a scope that does more than hold zero well. It has to track repeatable and precisely. I always am up for a value but in all the scopes I have used I have always found you get what you pay for, or at least you don't get what you don't pay for. I have yet to find a cheap scope that will let me run from near one end of the turret adjustment range to the other and be where I expect it to and also to last under this use. I'm sure for some casual hunters a set it and forget it scope is enough but to me it doesn't cut it.

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