Dumb Question M14 vs M1A ?


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skidooman603
March 24, 2009, 10:55 AM
The guns appear very similar. What are the differences?

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sernv99
March 24, 2009, 10:58 AM
M1A is basically the civilian version of the military M14

H2O MAN
March 24, 2009, 11:00 AM
M14 = USGI

All others are clones and copies of the original.

AK103K
March 24, 2009, 11:21 AM
The M14's were "select fire", and capable of full auto fire. The M1A's are not.

If you look closely on the M14's, just below the op rod and charging handle, you can often see the linkage, and at the rear of the op rod channel, and just below it, the selector switch (or lock out). The M14's receivers have a "lug" on the underside of the receiver at the rear, that is missing on the M1A's.

If you look at GI M14 stocks, you can see the cutouts where the linkage and selector went, most commercial M1A stocks dont have them, or in the case of Springfields fiberglass stocks, the rear notch has been filled, but the linkage channel is usually still present.

H2O MAN
March 24, 2009, 11:26 AM
There are some NFA select fire SEI and Springfield receivers out there...

cuervo
March 24, 2009, 07:14 PM
Also, "M1A" is a trademark of Springfield Armory, Inc.

All of the other brands like Smith, Polytech, Fulton Armory, etc, are generally called M1As but must have some other designation like M14SA or FA14.

All of these are civilian copies of the USGI M14 rifle. They are allowed to be counted as a service rifle for competition purposes. Any one made between 1994-2004 will have its bayo lug chopped off because it looked too scary for the pols in DC.

daorhgih
March 24, 2009, 10:48 PM
1. How many real select-fire M14s are on the buyer's market for a properly
licensed buyer, and how much ($$) ?

2. Can a single M15 lower be converted to take UZI-type 9x19 magazines, and
the proper upper installed to shoot 9x19.

lipadj46
March 24, 2009, 10:52 PM
1. How many real select-fire M14s are on the buyer's market for a properlylicensed buyer, and how much ($$) ?

Not many, Different's M14 book probably has an exact figure. I believe they cost somewhere around $25,000 give or take a few thousand. They may be significantly more $$$ I don't recall exactly but legally speaking all the transferrable select fire M1A's have been made and no more can be made.

2. Can a single M15 lower be converted to take UZI-type 9x19 magazines, and the proper upper installed to shoot 9x19.

What is an M15?

Jason_G
March 24, 2009, 10:55 PM
1. How many real select-fire M14s are on the buyer's market for a properly
licensed buyer, and how much ($$) ?


I think I read about 9,000 once, but that I've slept since then...

I'd expect a price tag of $10,000 to $20,000, if not higher, but I'm not sure.

Jason

XMP
March 24, 2009, 11:04 PM
There was a usgi M14 for sale recently on Gunbroker for 30,000.

lipadj46
March 24, 2009, 11:27 PM
There was a usgi M14 for sale recently on Gunbroker for 30,000

There are very very very few real M14s out there for sale that can be legally transferred on a form III. I really am not sure how a real M14 would have been legally registered in the first place to be transferred, maybe by a museum or something. Most "real" M14s you see are rewelds or remanufactureds of dubious legal standing. There is a legit looking one on GB but the fact that the reserve was not met and the bids have not gone above $10,000 probably tells you something.

Onmilo
March 25, 2009, 12:04 AM
Springfield Inc receivers are investment cast while real Military M14 rifles use a drop forged machined steel billet as the receiver base.
The newest Spring. Inc. rifles use commercial barrels and mainly investment cast small component parts while the military rifles use forged and machined component parts.

There is the matter of the military rifles being select fire but Spring. Inc. has produced select fire rifles and still does for foreign orders.

There were several hundred genuine M14 rifles brought back into the country and sold to Police Departments prior to the 1986 machine gun ban and some of these have been legally transferred onto the civilian class three market.

Thirty thousand is not an 'unreasonable' amount for a transferrable M14 rifle nowadays.
Of course the only folks who can actually afford these toys are the movie gun rental houses, movie stars and rock/hip-hop singers, and wall street moguls who haven't been arrested yet.
Bill Gates can afford this stuff too, but I don't think he is into guns.

Max C.
March 25, 2009, 06:25 AM
The M15 was a proposed M14 variant to replace the BAR iirc.

Hungry Seagull
March 25, 2009, 07:03 AM
Well, I guess it's unreasonable to expect to own a proper M14 these days at those pricing. If I am going to use a Rifle, I expect a properly made gun, not some cheap stamped knock off that will rattle and fall apart if left leaning too long.

lipadj46
March 25, 2009, 08:16 AM
I have a feeling you could probably count the real non remanufactured M14s out there that are legally transferrable and not in some firearm museum on your fingers and toes. Personally I really don't think there are thousands of them out there but I would go with whatever Different's book said, you wold see them out there more often then. Different does not even have one, he has a SAI select fire M1A.

Trebor
March 25, 2009, 10:00 AM
2. Can a single M15 lower be converted to take UZI-type 9x19 magazines, and
the proper upper installed to shoot 9x19.

Ummn, No.

Well, actually, probably "Yes," if you were willing to spend the money to completely rebuild the receiver.

The M-14 is not modular like the AR. It's not just a matter of snapping together a lower and upper like Legos. There really is no "lower" like there is on an AR. The receiver has the barrel and the mag well. The only "lower" is a separate trigger group.

My "No" answer is the realistic answer. The "Yes" answer is just because if you have enough money, almost anything is possible in theory, including completely remanufacturing a M-1A to shoot 9mm.

lipadj46
March 25, 2009, 10:23 AM
The M15 was a proposed M14 variant to replace the BAR iirc.

The M15 was never fielded and the M14 has no lower receiver. Just and old fashion chunk of steel. That is a first an M14 that takes uzi mags, that is so random.

cuervo
March 25, 2009, 10:31 AM
2. Can a single M15 lower be converted to take UZI-type 9x19 magazines, and
the proper upper installed to shoot 9x19.

I'm guessing you mean "AR15" or "M16" lower and M15 was a typo. There are 9mm AR15 uppers out there. I do not know what brand of magazines they take.

There is no conversion on the part of the lower, it's all in the upper.

And, as a side note, you would not want an "M16" lower because that would be considered a machine gun and cost a lot of money just as the M14s mentioned above. The AR15 is the civilian version of the M16 just as the M1A is to the M14. Most AR15 lowers are made so that they cannot take the parts made to make them shoot full auto.

H2O MAN
March 25, 2009, 10:37 AM
I can build 4 or 5 fully loaded top of the line SEI Crazy Horse M21A5s on semi auto
commercial receivers for less than the lowest priced select fire M14 type rifle...

The only select fire M14 that I would consider owning is the M14K (http://www.smithenterprise.com/products14.html) :evil:

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