Pink Pistols in the news


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StonerStudent
October 8, 2003, 07:51 PM
Gun-packing Pink Pistols feel safer armed
Wednesday, October 1, 2003

By AMY KLEIN
STAFF WRITER
----
photo- credit:TARIQ ZEHAWI / THE RECORD
caption: A member of the Pink Pistols [Andrew] practicing at a shooting
range in Pennsylvania. There are 37 Pink Pistols chapters nationwide.
----

It was after Andrew Greene left the gay bar in Philadelphia that he
heard the guys behind him.

They were drunk and carrying metal pipes. When Greene got to his car,
one of them shouted, "Hey, faggot."

Greene pulled his gun. The men ran.

Almost a decade later, Greene can still recall his fear. The gun, he
said, saved his life. And so, on the third Saturday of each month,
Greene heads to a shooting range with dozens of other gays and lesbians
from New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware who believe that carrying a
gun will help protect them from anti-gay violence.

First, though, they go to lunch. They talk about the latest gun show or
an upcoming pride parade. Some of the members have started to date.

Meet the Pink Pistols, a social group with the motto, "Armed gays don't
get bashed."

"Criminals know that certain people - like gays - are less likely to own
guns, and they target them," said Greene, 34, who lives in Philadelphia.
"Much in the same way I carry a gun, I have a spare tire in the back of
my car. It's there because when you need a spare, nothing replaces it."

Its philosophy has put the group in an unusual position between gay
groups and gun groups. High-profile gay organizations aren't exactly
rushing to embrace the gun-toting members, and the National Rifle
Association doesn't address the issue of sexuality.

"No one is sitting outside a bar on a Friday night with a baseball bat
waiting to bash a bunch of NRA members," said Gwen Patton, who founded
the Delaware Valley chapter with her partner about two years ago.

Since May 2000, when the first group of Pink Pistols met in Boston, 37
chapters have formed nationwide, giving gay, lesbian, bisexual, and
transgender people a place to hone their shooting skills.

There is no New Jersey chapter - an absence Patton attributes to what
she calls the state's "draconian" gun laws.

New Jersey is one of nine "may issue" states in which law enforcement
agencies are given some discretion in issuing permits to carry concealed
weapons. New Jersey does not recognize permits issued in other states.

About 15 New Jerseyans drive more than an hour to a shooting range in
Southampton, Pa., to practice with the Delaware Valley chapter,
including Sharona Nelson, a 52-year-old fiction writer from Cherry Hill.

Nelson is straight, married, and has a daughter in graduate school. When
she was 18, she was raped and says that self-defense has been a "real
bugaboo" for her.

"Shooting a gun levels the playing field between men and women," she
said. "In a hand-on-hand struggle, most men are going to overpower most
women."

A Libertarian, she is an adamant defender of the Second Amendment, and
when she started to look into shooting, she found the Pink Pistols.

They were welcoming, said Nelson, 52, who thinks she looks like a Sunday
school teacher. In June, she fired her first shot.

"In the end, it was just ... it was incredible," Nelson said. "It made
me feel confident. I normally walk tall, but it made me walk even taller."

Nelson's sense of vulnerability - and her frustration about being a
victim - is shared by many of the Pink Pistol members.

"This is not a power trip," Patton said. "It's applying medicine to an
illness that requires the proper treatment."

The gay community, for the most part, has been horrified, Patton said.

Historically, gay and lesbian groups have not been pro-gun, and other
gay organizations often just ignore the Pink Pistols, she said.

Indeed, several leaders of gay and lesbian organizations shied away from
interviews when they learned of the topic.

Laura Pople, president of the New Jersey Lesbian and Gay Coalition, said
she had never heard of the group and chose her words carefully when she
learned of its activities.

She praised the group for joining gays and lesbians in a shared hobby
and for engaging in political activism, but wouldn't comment on the
group's motto that armed gays don't get bashed.

"I'm not going to make a statement, because it hasn't come up before,"
Pople said. "Ours is a community that supports a variety of different
points of view."

After all, Pople said, there are gay stamp-collecting groups, gay
science-fiction groups, lots of gay bowling groups, and a gay shooting
group.

But Pink Pistols members say the group's objective runs deeper than just
giving its members an excuse to get together.

"Here's the queer community finally standing up and saying we're not
going to accept being targets for other people's rage," Patton said.

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NIGHTWATCH
October 8, 2003, 08:00 PM
Excellent. ;)

Balog
October 8, 2003, 08:04 PM
Meet the Pink Pistols, a social group with the motto, "Armed gays don't get bashed."

That's a hell of a slogan. Bet the leftists don't know what to make of that one
:)

StonerStudent
October 8, 2003, 08:07 PM
Yep....We are having a shoot tomorrow at The Powder Room in Columbus Ohio

C.R.Sam
October 8, 2003, 08:16 PM
Confusing the leftists even more.
Now that's a challange.
Whle standing up for their rights...
Even better.

Goodonem.

Sam

Mark Tyson
October 8, 2003, 08:25 PM
The gun community should reach out to and court organizations like this. Watch the anti's jaws drop! You can keep your hate crime legislation.

StonerStudent
October 8, 2003, 08:34 PM
And wants really cool is the our local president is a self proclaimed liberial,So yes some of them do "get it"

Grey54956
October 8, 2003, 08:37 PM
You know, perhaps this is a good thing. I think.

I don't know too many people of the gay persuasion, but anybody who is happy, friendly, and likes guns is jake with me.

I think I saw the caption on one of Oleg's fabulous pics that says the "Fight for freedom makes for strange bedfellows." I have to agree.

Silver Bullet
October 8, 2003, 08:42 PM
We are having a shoot tomorrow at The Powder Room in Columbus Ohio
This provides some interesting imagery. :)

More power to 'em, though. Welcome to The High Road !

Brian Dale
October 8, 2003, 10:02 PM
"I'm not going to make a statement, because it hasn't come up before," Pople said. Right. Ever hear of Matthew Shepard? After all, Pople said, there are gay stamp-collecting groups, gay science-fiction groups, lots of gay bowling groups, Hey, leave me alone! Or I'll stick this stamp on ya! Or I'll read you some Heinlein --then you'll know better than to mess with me!

It's about having human rights, rather than talking about human rights. Welcome, StonerStudent. Glad that you're here.

BowStreetRunner
October 8, 2003, 10:41 PM
liberals opposing a group like the pink pistols just goes to show that they detest the right of individuals to defend themselves
why they do, who knows?
good luck pink pistols :)
BSR

WAGCEVP
October 8, 2003, 10:42 PM
GO Pink Pistols!

Jeeper
October 8, 2003, 11:23 PM
Did I hear that the founder of the Pink Pistols is really sick with cancer? Does anyone know if this is true?

Jim March
October 8, 2003, 11:36 PM
I've seen encounters between the Pink Pistols and wildly anti-gun liberals.

The results can be described as "paradigm shift without a clutch".

:p

Standing Wolf
October 8, 2003, 11:43 PM
"Much in the same way I carry a gun, I have a spare tire in the back of my car. It's there because when you need a spare, nothing replaces it."

The Pink Pistols seem to be doing a fine job of garnering publicity—and more power to them!

Geech
October 9, 2003, 01:16 AM
I've seen encounters between the Pink Pistols and wildly anti-gun liberals.

The results can be described as "paradigm shift without a clutch".

Heh. I'd like to see that myself.

Holly76201
October 9, 2003, 01:19 AM
Way to go Pink Pistols. I have several gay, bisexual friends and one transgendered friend. Some carry, some don't, Guess which ones I worry about more.

JumboFriendly
October 9, 2003, 02:04 AM
Forgot where I read it, but I will have to agree with a comment I've read before.

Although I'm not gay, I have more in common with a homosexual who understands the right to defend their life, than with someone who's "straight" and doesn't.

jimpeel
October 9, 2003, 03:58 AM
"I'm not going to make a statement, because it hasn't come up before," Pople said. Interesting. We here at THR -- and formerly we who frequented TFL -- had the first thread posted at TFL on this group on 09-16-2000; yet their contemporary peers feign no knowledge of their existence. Rather queer, don't you think?

jimpeel
October 9, 2003, 04:05 AM
For those who are interested, here is a link to the TFL thread. It is interesting to see the positive reaction and even that one member was desirous of starting a chapter in his area.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39274

Alexey931
October 9, 2003, 08:05 AM
This thread left an impression with me, that being a gay/lesbian has something to do with being presumed more liberal than conservative. How so? I am not kidding, I am just a foreigner :)

Best regards

buzz_knox
October 9, 2003, 08:20 AM
"This is not a power trip," Patton said. "It's applying medicine to an

Good statement. Nothing like having articulate spokespeople for the cause, regardless of orientation.

StonerStudent
October 9, 2003, 08:50 AM
Alexey931, Most of the LGBT groups are very lib and the Democracts actively court the gay vote. Which is why it is harder to come out as a gunowner to gay people then it is to come out gay to gun people.

Brian Dale
October 9, 2003, 08:51 AM
Alexey931, the presumption (in my opinion) results from a number of vocal gay activists (and regular gay folks) having been in the liberal-to-socialist segment of the political spectrum. There are also large gay populations in cities such as San Francisco and New York, which are friendly to Democrat and socialist political groups. It's like assuming that office workers (in place of gays in this analogy) are overweight (leftist). It's not necessarily a causal relationship, but there's a certain amount of noticeable overlap between the two groups. Lots of folks don't fit the stereotypes. {Flame suit ON}

{Edited to add: StonerStudent posted a better answer as I was typing mine}

StonerStudent
October 9, 2003, 09:09 AM
Kim the leader of the Pistols in Ohio was thrown out of the Columbus Stonewall Dem chapter for asking them if The Pink Pistols could march at the Columbus pride this year.

geekWithA.45
October 9, 2003, 09:16 AM
here is no New Jersey chapter - an absence Patton attributes to what she calls the state's "draconian" gun laws. New Jersey is one of nine "may issue" states in which law enforcement agencies are given some discretion in issuing permits to carry concealed weapons. New Jersey does not recognize permits issued in other states.


The fact is, they DONT ISSUE. In a state with 8.2 million inhabitants, in the year 200, less than 800 carry permits where issued, and this includes restricted work related permits.

"Some discretion", my hat!

feedthehogs
October 9, 2003, 09:21 AM
The leadership of the Gay organizations know all about the Pink Pistols.

For them to deny that fact is nonsense.

Its the typical, if we deny or ignore, it must not exist.

We need as many converts like th PP's and Tammy Bruce on our side.

OF
October 9, 2003, 09:26 AM
Greene pulled his gun. The men ran.And that is the whole point.

- Gabe

PS: Last I checked the Pistols didn't have a real 'membership' program., ala JPFO or SAF. Is there some way to give money or become a member remotely?

Don Gwinn
October 9, 2003, 10:17 AM
Alexey, this kind of thing results from the U.S. political system. We only have two major political parties, the Republicans and the Democrats. Traditionally, the Republicans are supposed to be the "conservative, right-wing" party and the Democrats, at least for the last 40-50 years, the "liberal, left-wing" party. But because there are only two major parties, they have trouble addressing all issues in a consistent way.

The Republicans and conservatives tend to be more religious and to ally themselves with religious leaders, which often means a dim view of homosexuality. Through the years, this has built the impression that all Republicans/conservatives hate gays. That's not true, but certainly the Republican political party is less friendly toward gays than the Democratic party is.

At the same time, Republicans have built the reputation of being pro-gun and in favor of freedom where firearms are concerned. Again, this is not necessarily so, but it's the impression people have gotten over the years. In my opinion, it has hurt the gun-rights movement. The NRA, our most powerful lobbying group, tied itself so inextricably to the Republican party that nowadays even when a Democrat (or anyone else) wants to help gun owners and a Republican wants to hurt us, the NRA will usually support the Republican anyway. This, of course, just encourages the Democrats to conclude that they can never have gun owner support even if they "get right" on the issue.

And therein lies the problem. With only two major parties to encompass every issue out there, there are bound to be lots of contradictions. This confusion is confounded by the fact that regional differences are so great in the U.S. Here in the state of Illinois, both parties are very leftist, though neither would say so. Go south a few states to Texas or Alabama, and both parties are pretty "conservative." But nationwide, most of the time, it usually goes like this:

Republicans:
Favor more freedom where it concerns guns, business, employment, money, taxes, the right to worship Jesus, and property and home rights.

Democrats:
Favor more freedom where it concerns speech/protest/art/nudity/pornography, drugs, the right to worship people other than Jesus, and sex.

Both sides push for more government control, both sides claim to represent freedom of religion, etc.


There are other parties, like the Greens and the Libertarians, that occasionally make some noise. I'm a Libertarian myself. However, we're so small and ineffective that we can usually only affect the outcome of an election as "spoilers," taking votes that most people think would otherwise go to the major candidate closest to our views. That, in turn, keeps us small and ineffective by allowing BOTH major parties to appeal to voters not to "waste their votes" on people who "can't win."

jimpeel
October 9, 2003, 12:43 PM
Welcome to the boards.

There are Gay groups who are Conservative, as in the "Log Cabin Republicans" http://www.lcr.org/ . They are not a part of the voting block that the Democratic Party seeks to court.

The activist groups, like the "Lambda Project" http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/issues/record?record=9 and "GLADD" http://www.glaad.org/index.php , et al, are very vocal and are as Liberal as they come; while the "Log Cabin Republicans" tend to work more in the background.

Johnny Guest
October 9, 2003, 12:43 PM
In the TFL thread [i]jimpeel[/b] referenced above, on 20 SEP 2000, the Pink Pistols founding president, Doug Krick, said there were two chapters with about 45 members at that time.

In the current thread, StonerStudent quotes a news article indicating there are currently 37 chapters. Way to go!

Anyone know the approximate total membership nowadays?

Jeeper asked, Did I hear that the founder of the Pink Pistols is really sick with cancer? Does anyone know if this is true? Didn't see a reply. Any word on the health of Mr. Krick?

Best regards,
Johnny

JeanC
October 9, 2003, 01:30 PM
Mr Krick is in fine health as far as I know, it is Dan Weiner who is the president of the Pink Pistols Houston who is quite ill. I have not heard how is he is currently doing.

The Palouse Pink Pistols were specifically asked to have a table at the last Pride day here in Moscow and at the previous one the year before when we asked if we could have a table we got an ethusiastic YES! Both years we had positive responses from folk. The first year we had only one real negative response and when she walked away, her partner grabbed up a lot of the literature we had available :)

Brian Dale
October 9, 2003, 01:53 PM
The first year we had only one real negative response and when she walked away, her partner grabbed up a lot of the literature we had available Cool Beans, Jean! ;)

Jeeper
October 9, 2003, 02:31 PM
Mr Krick is in fine health as far as I know, it is Dan Weiner who is the president of the Pink Pistols Houston who is quite ill. I have not heard how is he is currently doing.

Thanks for the response Jean. Being from Houston that must be why I misunderstood this.

Mauserlady
October 9, 2003, 04:04 PM
Which is why it is harder to come out as a gunowner to gay people then it is to come out gay to gun people.

I have heard this from a few friend.. One said that his gay friends refuse to even associate with him any longer since he became interested in guns/shooting/self protection...

I find that reaction very confusing coming from a group that touts "acceptance"

c_yeager
October 10, 2003, 06:55 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how the most persecuted groups in this country are the most opposed to gun ownership. I mean really the "white male" demographic is probably the LEAST likely to be the victim of a violent crime and yet.... go fig. These guys are a refreshing exception to this with, hopefully more to come.

Dex Sinister
October 12, 2003, 01:17 AM
I've seen encounters between the Pink Pistols and wildly anti-gun liberals. The results can be described as "paradigm shift without a clutch".

Darnit Jim, now I've got iced tea all over my monitor!

Dex }:>=-

Dex Sinister
October 12, 2003, 01:29 AM
PS: Last I checked the Pistols didn't have a real 'membership' program., ala JPFO or SAF. Is there some way to give money or become a member remotely?

IIRC, this will do.

"Someone made the mistake of asking if we have ID cards.

Now we do. Print one off, fold in half, and laminate.

Enjoy. " Pink Pistols.org ID page (http://www.pinkpistols.org/id.html)

http://www.pinkpistols.org/images/pp_id_card.jpg

Instructions for starting a chapter (http://www.pinkpistols.org/howto_start_group.html)

Dex }:>=-

Kaylee
October 12, 2003, 02:35 AM
Kim the leader of the Pistols in Ohio was thrown out of the Columbus Stonewall Dem chapter for asking them if The Pink Pistols could march at the Columbus pride this year.

Correct me if I'm wrong -- it's been years since the "gay history" talks I heard the GLBA group give at my ol' alma mater but um... wasn't Stonewall some kinda "we're fed up and not going to take this abuse any more" well... riot?

Seems kinda ironic that someone gets thrown out of an event celebrating an unorganized violent response for advocating measured violent response in self defense. How...odd. :confused:

-K

gunsmith
October 12, 2003, 02:50 AM
The anti's try to paint the RKBA as racist & homophobic.
We know they promote (the anti's promote)
the victimization of minority & gay/lesbian people.
Welcome to high road stoner!

Brian Dale
October 12, 2003, 02:52 AM
Seems kinda ironic that a guy gets thrown out of an event celebrating an unorganized violent response for advocating measured violent response in self defense. How...odd. Heretics are always excommunicated. Don't try to confuse things with the facts. :evil:

johnr
October 12, 2003, 07:58 PM
The first year we had only one real negative response and when she walked away, her partner grabbed up a lot of the literature we had available...
Very cool. We need all the allies we can gather.

Mark Tyson
October 12, 2003, 09:24 PM
The thing is, "victim" is an celebrated status in our society. At the same time, guns have been demonized as death machines spontaneously mowing down busloads of pre-schoolers while their owners aren't looking. People who defend themselves with martial arts for example aren't looked down on, but people who use guns are instantly suspect.

jimpeel
October 13, 2003, 02:24 AM
Groups who seek power through the legislative or litigation process do so through the use of victims as evidence of their plight. They actually need victims as leverage to attain that power.

Anti-firearms groups are the biggest users of victims. The ADL, Gay groups, et al are anti-firearms because they also need victims as their main course of leverage. The ADL eschews the likes of Mordechai Anielewich (http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/resistance/awards/warsaw.php) and perish the thought of a healty Matthew Shepard standing over the prostrate bodies of his intended perpetrators. A person who can stand up for themselves and avoid victimhood is of no use whatsoever in the attainment of the goal. The agenda will whither on the vine without victims.

So the best, surest, and easiest way to "recruit" victims is to convince them, without their cognizant knowledge, that they must allow themselves to be placed in the position of becoming a victim. There is no call for willing victims to be shot as an example of the devastation that firearms are able to produce. They simply recruit the willing who are convinced that self-defense is an evil trait that is reserved for the <fill in the blank> types of people; and we wouldn't want to be like <dripping with condescension>THEM</dripping with condescension>, now; would we?

They are told that firearms, and their use as a self-defense tool, is immoral. They are told that the firearm will simply be taken from them and used against them. They are told that firearms are an ineffective tool for self defense. And here's the kicker. They are told that in light of the "facts" presented above, they should do exactly as the perpetrator(s) say and give them anything they want. The person who does the preceding has a name; and that name is VICTIM.

Criminals prey on the weak and ignorant and the groups which seek power supply them with plenty of people who fit that apt description. They turn them out like puppy mills. They beat the drum of ignorance in their ears at a steady cadence in the finest tradition of Fritz Lange's 1927 classic "Metropolis".

Always remember. Victims are manufactured. They are not created naturally -- cowards are. They are turned out at frightening rates by willing propagandists whose goal is to enslave them in a far worse way than the criminals ever envisioned. And what is the chant of these victims? Disarm! Ban guns! Guns are bad! Carry a cell phone! The police will protect us!

Peace through concensus or appeasment has never been achieved at any time in world history -- not with tyrants and not with criminals -- yet those who seek to disarm the populace have convinced far too many people that this is not only achievable; but it is necessary to the future of this nation.

God help us all if they ever get their way.

twoblink
October 13, 2003, 11:28 AM
One of the Pink Pistols I met.. "357 + Gay = Damn straight you'd better not mess with me". :D

madmike
October 14, 2003, 04:58 AM
My second novel, "Freehold," has two bisexual women characters.

They carry guns.

They also pour out a considerable volume of fire against UN "Peacekeepers."

Along with Druids, Christians, street gangs, store owners and hookers, among others.

You don't win by dividing yourself into subcultures. You win by agreeing to get along.

From the Constitution of the Freehold of Grainne:

Section 5:

Rights of Residents

Residents retain inviolably and forever the rights enumerated herein, subject only to the duties enumerated in Section 6:

1) Freedom to possess and carry arms of any and every kind, except during such time as they are Prisoners of Citizens' Court.

Section 6:

Duties of Residents

Residents shall have only the following duties:
The duty to keep the Common Law of the Freehold of Grainne.
The duty to ensure that no personal exercise of rights and freedoms infringes detrimentally upon the physical person or property of any other Resident or natural person.
The duty to prevent the Government and its agents, individually or collectively, from exercising any privilege, right, power or other imposition of any kind over the Residents of the Freehold, except as provided for in this Constitution.
The duty to defend the Freehold against invasion or other attack.


Email me for more details. It can be advance ordered now.

BTW: most true lefties and true communists support kaba. How can the people hold a revolution if they aren't armed? I refer you to the VERY left wing Leon Trotsky, George Orwell, Eric Flint, Steven Brust and Mercedes Lackey, among others.

StonerStudent
October 14, 2003, 08:33 AM
One of the problem's most of the LGBT look at the 2nd as a conservative vs liberal issue. Example if a Candidate is pro gun then he or she is most likely antigay.

braindead0
October 14, 2003, 08:52 AM
One of the problem's most of the LGBT look at the 2nd as a conservative vs liberal issue. Example if a Candidate is pro gun then he or she is most likely antigay

And pro-life, and probably other hot button issue for many people.

The only choice where you have any control over your own life is Libertarian ;-)

StonerStudent
October 14, 2003, 09:03 AM
For me I look at the issue at hand.....last time around it was getting the AWB dumped, I didn't see ether Candidate [Bush or Gore] doing anything majorly helpful on gay rights. What most don't see is gay rights and 2nd admendent rights are generally a bargaining chip for both the Dems and Repubs...Clinton did more to screw over the LGBT then Bush as even thought about. But ask most in the LGBT groups and Uncle Bill is a saint

Dilettante
October 14, 2003, 09:47 AM
Find out whatever Stoner is smoking, and pass it around at every LGBT meeting! :)

zastros
October 14, 2003, 03:12 PM
I contacted the local president of the St. Louis chapter of the PP awhile ago. Ironically, he was a student at the college I taught at. Doubly ironic, we're both straight. Sadly, as far as I know, the STL chapter has sort of fallen apart. The trouble with students, darn classes and finals keep getting in the way of more important stuff. Shooting! I'll throw an email out and try to find the new leadership.

zastros

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