[Abominable No-Man]

Dear THR,

In light of the several, recent threads related to the real-world performance of the M16, I started wondering what direction these discussions would have taken if a DIFFERENT weapon had ultimately been adopted. Would there have been the same vociferous (big word........) people who "swear by 'em/swear at 'em"?

Hypothetically, let's say that........

The early failures of the M16 attracted enough media attention, that
MacNamara ordered a recall of all fielded M16's and immediate replacement of the M16 with a weapon of similar characteristics. Colt was sufficiently discouraged by the recall and subsequent investigation that it declined to
do any more R&D into the M16.

The M16 was replaced by:_________________________, which has now been in service with the U.S. Military for over 25 years in various configurations.

What do YOU think it would have been?

ANM

DISCLAIMER Obviously this scenario didn't happen. We all know that.
So please before I get any hate mail in the vein of "What the &%$# are you talking about?", keep that in mind........

[Mark Tyson]

I think they should have taken the FAL and told the Euro NATO allies to stick with 7.62x51 mm. If this happened right after the transition it would have caused logistical problems, though. I think 5.56mm would stuck around but would have been relegated to a police/CQB role.

If it's got to be 5.56mm I think they should have chosen the AR-180.

[Med 10]

FAL


An AK in 5.56 would have been nice.

[Nightcrawler]

Didn't Stoner come up with the AR-18 right after he designed the M16, as something of an idealized, simple, reliable, easy-to-mass-produce service rifle?

I suspect that they would've gone with that. *shrug*

[gun-fucious]

howz about this?

[Gabe]

Very likely it would've been a version of the AR-18. Either that or the 16 with an op rod ala the ZM rifles.

I think the AR-18 with a better made receiver and a picatinny top with detachable carrying handle would've been perfect. Keep the standard AR-18 irons as backup and put a 1.5/2x optic in the handle. Very doable in the 70's.

[C.R.Sam]

I think the FAL could have been a winner....for riflemen.
And a subgun maby for close n noisy.

Sam

[Tamara]

Remember, the last rifle is always better.




Dadgum newfangled Krag with those teeny little bullets. When you shoot a real cartridge, you don't need no fragile "repeating rifle." :scrutiny:

[Fudgie Ghost]

According to the book "Misfire", the Springfield ordance people were testing a .270 version of the FAL. I think this would have been a better choice than the AR-15/M16.

[Badger Arms]

Colt already had an improved replacement. They offered it to the Army. The Army said no. The Colt Model 703 with gas piston.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=77720
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=77721

[Tamara]

I see they kept the goofy charging handle location which, considering the ergonomics of the rest of the rifle, is like a zit on a model's nose. :scrutiny:

[flashbackk]

I agree with the FAL in the intermediate cartridge it was designed for.

I would expect we would then have evolved into a op rod gas system ,rotary bolt intermediate cartridge in .30 caliber that looks alot like the M4 we have today.

[Maddogkiller]

We should have kept the M14 and instead of spending a gazillion dollars adopting new rifles, ammo, magazines, manuals, yada yada yada, use that money to teach soldiers and MARINES how to shoot the damned thing better.


* as an aside, have you noticed that the current M16A2 weighs as much as an M14 and fires an inferior cartridge?*

[Joe Demko]

Probably would have used existing stocks of M-14, M-1, M-1 carbine, M-3 greasegun, etc. Tamara nailed it with her "last rifle is always better" comment.

[Correia]

Badger, that is extreamly interesting. I have never seen pictures of, nor have I ever heard of anything like that.

Looks kind of like a bastardized 16/18 hybrid. I would be interested if you have any other information on it.

[Nightcrawler]

You know, just to shake things up, Colt should do a run of post ban model 703 uppers. That'd be very, very interesting.

[AJ Dual]

Just today in this other thread on general discussion:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44046&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

What I'd like:

An AR-like rifle, but with a true gas-piston a-la the AR18/180 or the DR200, chambered in a 100gr 6mm intermediate round like the 6mm SAW or 6mm PPC, with an adjustable gas regulator like the FAL for fine tuning/reliability, AR style mag well, but using British SA-80 steel mags for reliability/durability.

I'd like to use an ACOG or ELCAN style optic on a QD mount, low 3-4x magnification with wide field of view. Backup iron would be A2 style adjustable and quickly deployable

Looks like others have had the same idea. :scrutiny:

[Badger Arms]

You know, just to shake things up, Colt should do a run of post ban model 703 uppers. That'd be very, very interesting.Both Olympic Arms and Z-M make gas piston uppers. Taiwan produced the piston upper equiped T-65 which had a piston system just like the AR-18 where Olympic and ZM's are more like the FAL if I remember correctly.

The model 703 was never produced, it was a tool-room gun apparently. If they tooled up for the gun, they could probably make it pretty cheaply. One would question the wisdom of doing this with their government and civlian sales steady. It would probably take a smaller company like Armalite to do this.

What I'd like to see is an AR-18 upper adapted in some way to the AR-15 lower. I don't think this would take a heap of engineering to accomplish. I'll even pre-order it! :D

[Rogelio]

Here in Peru we use the FAL, and although it is a very nice and powerfull rifle, do you think your goverment (no xenofobia here) would like to use the same rifle as the one used by an underdeveloped country? I think not.

I do not want to start a fight here, but your rifles look really cool, and that is somehow scary....I am not really a rifle guy, but which one is more powerfull??FAL or M16??

[Badger Arms]

The FAL certainly is more powerful round for round. However, the M-16 will shoot faster and is more accurate and more controllable. Because each hit will probably stop or kill an attacker, I'll take the smaller one any day.

The FAL was actually considered in the USA and an American company tooled up and made a production run of about 500 rifles. The Army at the time wanted only a rifle that THEY designed and therefore cheated and fixed the test so that their rifle would win. We then got the M-14, one of the worst choices of all time when we look back with the knowledge of what happened to that rifle afterwards.

The FAL was the second most successful assault rifle in history in its time betered only by the AK-47. It was sold to and used by more countries in the free world than any other weapon. It still serves well. I, for one, would have been more than happy to carry the FAL in service.

[Gabe]

As far as looks go I think the FAL is the coolest looking automatic rifle ever. The Brazilians have a FAL look alike shrunk down to fire the 5.56 from an AR bolt. I wouldn't mind having one of those at all.

Truth is had US adopted the FAL chambered for the original 7mm British, we probably would still be very happy with that weapon today.